I met Deborah Ruf last night!

[Amber in AUS]

She was lovely! She was holding a lecture titled "Bright child, gifted or not?" Basically she went through the levels she outlines in her book. Some interesting points that i jotted down to share are ...

where kids show a keen interest when they are young show potential for future careers

no busywork

IQ's can be measured by suburb

siblings generally have a 15pt range of one another and are also close in range to their parents

married couples tend to be close in range to each other

many gifted kids don't do well with phonics, many prefer a whole to parts approach than part to whole

don't teach gifted kids expose and discuss, they are inquiry driven

a level 4 child will be ready for algebra by age 10

a HG child can go from not reading anything to reading at a adult level within 2 years

L5 kids tend to have a musical aptitude that isn't as present in other levels

we naturally like to do what we are good at, so look at kids when they are chilling out, what are they doing?

teachers teach to the top of the bottom 1/3 of the class

for math, single sex classes are best

girls do better in single sex high schools

HG kids can be left handers and highly excitable, also have sensory issues

in countries where kids are tracked from 9 or 10 the gifted kids tend to have better outcomes

L5 kids are a suicide/depression risk in years 11 & 12

Book rec about boys "What could he be thinking? How a man's mind really works" - the author doesn't go into giftedness but knows his stuff about boys/men

gifted kids, boys inparticular should not go to school until age 7

I may be attending a further lecture of hers next week, if so i will be sure to share anything more :001_smile:

[amsunshine]

Thanks for this!

[jaderbee]

a level 4 child will be ready for algebra by age 10



I found this interesting because in California they are teaching kids algebra in 4th grade. That's typical kids in the 9-10yo age range.

[Truscifi]

IQ's can be measured by suburb

What?

[Amber in AUS]

I found this interesting because in California they are teaching kids algebra in 4th grade. That's typical kids in the 9-10yo age range.

I think she was meaning full on high school algebra, not just the basics or pre-algebra.

[Amber in AUS]

What?

What she was saying was that people who are Dr's, lawyers, dentists etc tend to have high IQ's, they also tend to be affluent and live together in similar suburbs therefore the kids are likely to have high IQ's and so the suburb's average would have a high IQ and the local school population would reflect that if higher IQ kids.

The opposite would also be true, people in lower socio economic areas who don't have professional jobs have generally lower IQs and have kids with generally lower IQs which results in a school population of kids with lower IQs.

There are obviously exceptions, as there always are, but it was kind of a general guide she was giving for choosing a public school. If you can travel to a school in a better area then you should if you have a kid who is bright because they are more likely to fit in IQ wise and the school will cater better for brighter students.

[MissKNG]

siblings generally have a 15pt range of one another and are also close in range to their parents



Did she say anything about grandparents? We (including my parents) think my big girl got some of my dad's brains especially in math.

[Truscifi]

What she was saying was that people who are Dr's, lawyers, dentists etc tend to have high IQ's, they also tend to be affluent and live together in similar suburbs therefore the kids are likely to have high IQ's and so the suburb's average would have a high IQ and the local school population would reflect that if higher IQ kids.

The opposite would also be true, people in lower socio economic areas who don't have professional jobs have generally lower IQs and have kids with generally lower IQs which results in a school population of kids with lower IQs.

There are obviously exceptions, as there always are, but it was kind of a general guide she was giving for choosing a public school. If you can travel to a school in a better area then you should if you have a kid who is bright because they are more likely to fit in IQ wise and the school will cater better for brighter students.

Okay, it makes sense now. Thanks!

[LisaDSB]

That's really interesting -- thanks for sharing!

[Elisa]

What she was saying was that people who are Dr's, lawyers, dentists etc tend to have high IQ's, they also tend to be affluent and live together in similar suburbs therefore the kids are likely to have high IQ's and so the suburb's average would have a high IQ and the local school population would reflect that if higher IQ kids.


I have definitely found this to be true for my kids' schools.

Amber, thank you so much for posting your notes. I'm so jealous!

Do you remember what else she said about interests leading to careers?

Oh and did she talk about the program she's testing now?

[Donna]

Thanks for sharing. I now remember most of those things you mentioned from the phone consultation I did with her for dd a couple years ago. You reiterating them, helped jog my memory again. I think I have all those things written down in a notebook somewhere.

[LisaDSB]

Do you remember what else she said about interests leading to careers?

I'm curious about this too. Both of my DSs chose their careers at about age 4, and are still passionate about them. I assume the advice is to allow adequate time and resources for them to pursue those interests. Should parents get involved beyond that?

[homeschoolally]

Thanks so much for sharing this. There were several points of interest to us. I will look forward to hearing what you learn next week!

[Colleen in SEVA]

Great info, thanks!! :)

[Melenie]

Great info, thanks!

[Amber in AUS]

Do you remember what else she said about interests leading to careers?

Oh and did she talk about the program she's testing now?

For interests leading to careers she didn't elaborate too much. She was saying watch your child, what are they drawn too in their downtime? That is where their passion may lie. Foster this, don't squash it. Most of her audience was school teachers or parents of PS kids so i guess she was trying to highlight that kids at PS don't get to foster and explore areas where their true passions lie because they are in PS. As homeschooler one would think we are more 'intouch' with our kids and can foster and encourage their interests. Much of the time their early interests lead to ongoing passions and eventually careers in similar fields.

She did mention the program that she is testing. She said that it would be a kind of online IQ guide that would show the level of the child and would cost about $40. She said it should be released in the next month or so all things going to plan.

[babysparkler]

Thanks so much for sharing this. There were several points of interest to us. I will look forward to hearing what you learn next week!
:iagree:

[anabelneri]

don't teach gifted kids expose and discuss, they are inquiry driven

Ok, so that's what we're doing now for history and somewhat for science, and I find MCT does that with grammar, but how do you do that for math?

:confused:
Anabel

[ChristineMM]

Thanks for sharing this.

Can you elaborate on this, which I can't seem to understand the gist of?

"we naturally like to do what we are good at, so look at kids when they are chilling out, what are they doing?"

Did she say they were thinking and pondering (a good thing)?

Thanks.

[Amber in AUS]

Ok, so that's what we're doing now for history and somewhat for science, and I find MCT does that with grammar, but how do you do that for math?

:confused:
Anabel

Miquon perhaps?

[Amber in AUS]

Thanks for sharing this.

Can you elaborate on this, which I can't seem to understand the gist of?

"we naturally like to do what we are good at, so look at kids when they are chilling out, what are they doing?"

Did she say they were thinking and pondering (a good thing)?

Thanks.

She was saying when you watch them and they are just in their chilled out state are they reading? listening to music? playing their instrument? drawing? painting? Those are the things your kids are good at, perhaps where their talent and future lies. What she is getting at from what she said is kids play and read and do activities etc but what do they choose to do when they are in a relaxed state? For my DD she will go and read when she is chilling out. She is good at reading, she can read anything and retains the information.

I guess this comment goes hand in hand with the comment about little kids interests and future careers. Watch, encourage, foster what they love. Again this was mainly a PS audience so many gifted kids don't get the same down time, they are shipped from PS to activities. As HSers we have the awesome opportunity to foster what our kids really enjoy.

She didn't discuss internal thoughts and pondering other than to say you really need to watch Level 5 kids who can get caught up in their own sense of warped reality and become very depressed and even suicidal typically around 16, 17 because they don't feel they fit anywhere and question their true worth etc.

Gosh, i am not really doing her justice. It would be much clearer coming from the horses mouth. Doing my best with the notes i jotted down ;)

[MissKNG]

"""Originally Posted by Amber in AUS http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1486020#post1486020)

siblings generally have a 15pt range of one another and are also close in range to their parents"""



Did she say anything about grandparents? We (including my parents) think my big girl got some of my dad's brains especially in math. I think we are the exception!! The math brains bypassed me and went to her! LOL!

[Amber in AUS]

She didn't say anything about grandparents, or specific subjects being passed on. Just that married couples were close in IQ and then had kids who were close in IQ to both their parents and other siblings. So extrapolating from that your parents are close in IQ, they had you, and you are close to them in IQ, maybe higher or lower and then you got married to someone close in IQ to you and then had a child who's IQ is close to yours, maybe higher or lower. Clear as mud :D

[LisaDSB]

Ok, so that's what we're doing now for history and somewhat for science, and I find MCT does that with grammar, but how do you do that for math?

:confused:
Anabel

My son is very inquiry-driven in math. I have found that just introducing ideas to him provides a springboard for him to wander off and research and think about things. For example, last year, when he was 8, we read "G is for Googol", which had lots of concepts he hadn't yet explored. Yesterday he wanted to see what the highest prime number was that he could come up with. Sometimes he decides he's going to teach himself something like trigonometry and he goes online to find out.

We watched "Story of 1" from the BBC recently, and that led to him writing the "Story of Zero" and thinking about that. We do "Living Math", which includes a lot of math literature and study of early mathematicians. Reading "The Man Who Measured the Earth", the story of Eratosthenes (spelling and title might be wrong) led to further thinking about that. Books like the Sir Cumference series and the Number Devil also promoted independent thought.

He still has regular math work that he does, but just allowing him time to explore these concepts on his own keeps it exciting for him.

HTH,

Lisa

[babysparkler]

Ok, so that's what we're doing now for history and somewhat for science, and I find MCT does that with grammar, but how do you do that for math?

:confused:
Anabel

Re: "don't teach gifted kids expose and discuss, they are inquiry driven"

I find that naturally happens for my ds in math... he always seems to be able to figure out how to do it before I actually teach it. I feel like most of my "teaching" is giving him terminology (i.e. "that's the distributive property"...) or putting into a form what he just seems to "know". For example, we were doing this math problem the other day:

Ryan left the science museum and drove
south. Gabriella left three hours later
driving 42 km/h faster in an effort to catch
up to him. After two hours Gabriella finally
caught up. Find Ryan's average speed.

He did some scribbling and thinking and came up with the correct answer of 28km/h. Then, I had him draw & label the diagram, write out the equation, and solve for "r". Right now, problems like this seem easy, but as they get more complex I'd like him to be able to have the proper strategies for finding the solution, and to be able to explain why it works.

In his "down time" I find him creating his own math or chess puzzles/problems trying to stump me and DH :) He doesn't ever seem to stop thinking about math even after "class" is over.

[Rosie_0801]

Ok, so that's what we're doing now for history and somewhat for science, and I find MCT does that with grammar, but how do you do that for math?

:confused:
Anabel


MOTL would facilitate that. It's not for everyone, (especially Virgos- ;) at Amber.)

Rosie

[Amber in AUS]

:lol:

[Truscifi]

MOTL? I'm not familiar with that one.

[MissKNG]

She didn't say anything about grandparents, or specific subjects being passed on. Just that married couples were close in IQ and then had kids who were close in IQ to both their parents and other siblings. So extrapolating from that your parents are close in IQ, they had you, and you are close to them in IQ, maybe higher or lower and then you got married to someone close in IQ to you and then had a child who's IQ is close to yours, maybe higher or lower. Clear as mud :D

Definitely clear as THICK mud because none of this applies to my family!! LOL! My dad is most likely profoundly gifted in math and science and my mother is completely average. I'm average in math as is my husband. My big girl is definitely showing a brightness and understanding in math that I never had. It's gotta be from Grandpa! (well, I don't think she's PG or anything off the charts) :tongue_smilie:

Did she say her online assessment was going to be something parent's fill out or something kiddos work on as well? Or both?

[Rosie_0801]

MOTL? I'm not familiar with that one.

Math on the Level. Not what you want if you need open and go, or independent work. Useful if you want to go off on rabbit trails but have a list to make sure your trails don't have you skipping stuff entirely.

Rosie

[Ibbygirl]

This is an interesting thread. I have never heard of Deborah Ruf or her teachings. Is there a link or something where I can learn more without asking questions and derailing the thread?? Like what the levels are?? TIA. :)

[Elisa]

Here's an explanation of the 5 levels and it's on her Web site so you can read more if you're interested.

www.educationaloptions.com/resources/resources_levels_giftedness.php

[Amber in AUS]

Did she say her online assessment was going to be something parent's fill out or something kiddos work on as well? Or both?

She didn't say anything about her assessment program other than it would be available in a month or so everything going to plan.

[Catherine]

He had a suicidal depression when he was 11. And of my three kids, he is the most "out there"-I've never thought of him as L5, but as he gets older, more and more I wonder.

[Jewel]

I havenot looked at Ruf's gifted levels for awhile and I am struck with the thought that they seem low. Has there been some kind of IQ adjustment "dumbing down" made from previous years?

[Elisa]

Do you mean the in terms of IQ? The IQ tests have changed and the numbers have lowered. This chart compares older and newer IQ test scores: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm