Precalculus Foerster questions or what should follow AlgII/Trig

[Kendall]

We are currently using Algebra II with Trigonometry by Foerster. Someone on the board mentioned that Foerster said to do the trig portion with his Precalculus Trig text.


If I continue with what I own, what should we do for PreCalculus? If we complete the Alg II/Trig book will a student need another course before taking Calculus?

Does the new Foerster PreCalc with Trig Edition Concepts and Applications1 or 2 require a graphing calculator?


Thanks in advance,
Kendall

[Sharon in MD]

I had a brief email correspondence with Mr. Foerster about 2 1/2 years ago as I was planning our high school math sequence. It was he who suggested that I not use his Al II text with Trig for both Al II and Trig. This is the one published under the classics series by Pearson. It was last updated back around 91, I think.

He felt that the Al II part of the text was still just fine, but that with the advent of graphing calculators the Trig part was not where it should be technologically. He seemed to feel that it is important for students to learn how to use their graphing calculators, especially if they might want to take any of the AP math tests. (And, just on a personal note, I will say that my son's friends who are following a more traditional homeschool road with Saxon, for the most part, don't know how to use their calculators.)

I'd really encourage you to look at the Key press web site to see the Pre-Calculus with Trigonometry and the follow on Calculus text. The 1st 6 chapters of the Pre-calc book are Trig and the last half of the book is Pre-calc. I really like this text. It has truly pushed us in learning to use the calculator, but there are also sections of the tests where a calculator is not permitted. I think it is a really good blend of learning how to harness the technology and how to still work without it.

This link takes you to the main product page.

http://www.keypress.com/x5423.xml

I also really like the part on Key press web site that has what are called dynamic explorations. You can manipulate things on the screen to see what the sinusoidal graphs will do etc. This link takes you to the page where you can explore some of the presentations.

http://www.keypress.com/x19826.xml

I was originally only going to do the trig part, thinking that ds was doing so well that we could just jump into Calculus at the second semester, but I reconsidered and decided to continue with the pre-calc. I looked at the 2nd half of the book more carefully and decided that the depth to which it covered the deeper Algebra, analytic geometry, statistical stuff was just too important to skip. On the one hand, you don't really "need" it because you've covered it at some level already, but it is nice and meaty stuff. I think it will really benefit our son to complete the whole course and will likely help him on the standardized testing (SAT/ACT) coming up. If we jumped ahead to Calculus instead, he might actually not be as prepared for those tests because it wouldn't be as fresh, you know?

You need at TI-83 or 84 for the course. I'd go for the 84 silver plus edition. There are even things that you download into the calculator from the publisher's website for the course. (this saves much frustration in typing in long lists of data.) Don't buy a TI-89 for the course. I bought one as a second calculator and you can't download the stuff to it because it isn't compatible with the format. I also think it is harder to use in some ways. It is really too advanced. These applications are among the things that push this course up in my estimation. It's really cool.

I will also admit that this has been challenging for me. I don't have a strong math background, but rather have been growing it alongside ds. We have decided to outsource calculus one of three ways. We will either go with the CC, or Chalkdust, or Foerster with a tutor. I'm not sure which one yet, but am leaning toward the CC because the credit will transfer without having to jump through additional hoops of testing.

Please ask questions if you think of any.

HTH
Sharon

[Kendall]

Sharon,

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. I was a little concerned about heavy calculator use; I want my son to be able to sketch a graph without a calculator. It sounds like this course will teach both.

Do you have the 1st edition?

Thanks for the specific calculator recommendation.

How long did it take your son to work through the Alg II portion and how long, so far, for the PreCalc book?

Kendall

[Sharon in MD]

I don't want to mislead you...it is heavy calculator use. But, Foerster does teach both. You do need to be able to sketch a graph without one and he does require the students to learn the proofs of trig as well....you learn to derive things, not just blindly memorize. You have to show that you understand the concepts, not just punch in the numbers...But you do definitely use the calculator alot.

It took us one year to go through the AL II portion of the Al II text, a school year that is. And it will take one year for the precalc book. The thing that I like about his texts is that if you use the instructors editions or instuctor's manuals, he tells you how many days each assignment should take, which problems to be sure to assign and what the potential pitfalls may be. I don't know if you have the T. Ed of the Al II text or not, but it is priceless for the Precalc book. I could not manage without it. For the Precalc text, it is a paperback instructors resource and not a reprint of the student text with additional notes, as was the case for us with the Al II text. If you decide to go with his Precalc text, you need the student text, hard back, Instructor's manual, and Solution's guide. The Instuctors manual comes with a cd rom that has black line masters and all the tests and solutions on it. It also has the down loads for the calculator.

HTH
SHaron

[Kendall]

Sharon,

Thanks so much for the input. I've decided to go with the Precalc. I spoke with a professor at the local university who said that they are requiring graphing calculators in College Algebra and up and that little to no class time was spent teaching students to use them.

My son was about to start the trig portion (the Alg II/Trig book gives 2 options, 1 was to do trig after the 1st 8 chapters) and so I needed to make a quick decision about Trig. To cut the long story short, we will pick up some Geometry that got left out of his math sequence and then finish the Alg II portion of the book. Probably won't need the Precalc /Trig until late fall.

If you want to sell yours when you are done, let me know!

Kendall

[Sharon in MD]

I'm glad you talked to that local professor about the graphing calculators, it kind of reassures me that we haven't been wasting our time learning how the darned thing works. I always feel so much better when I get the same answer for more than one source.

I think we did the first 12 chapters of the Al II text which you have. I can't recall if I told you that before or not. I think you will be happy with your decision....it's a good program, or at least it has been for us.

We will probably hang on to our Precalculus until ds is sure he doesn't need to refer back to it for his next course. I'm afraid that will be way to late for your needs.

I'm glad I was able to be of help.

Blessings,