Another Aspie question...

[mama2cntrykids]

I've mentioned before how my 7 yr. old ds HATES writing. Hates it. The curriculum were doing now is about to up the anty with the writing portion in about two weeks. He hardly does it now. I mean, it can be like pulling teeth to get him to write four words!

So, here's the question...Is it "ok" to let him just kind of unschool with the writing? I mean, just write of his own accord. I've gotten him a dry erase board and gel pencil grips and we're going to try those tomorrow, but if we try and fail. I sound like I'm asking permission and maybe I just need to be told it's ok to modify if I need to.

He's really starting to hate school too so I don't want to push it. I want him to like learning. Do you know how sad it is to hear your not even 7 yr. old say he HATES school??? It breaks my heart, but I don't know **what** to do with him, truly. I've almost talked myself into child-directed learning, but I'm not so sure.

Help me out here, if you can. I'm all :bigear: because I'm just spent! Thank you:grouphug:.

[jenn&charles]

My aspie has always hated writing. He's in 5th grade and only JUST started warming up to it.
I did several things to try and help make writing less of a chore when he was younger.
I often would let him dictate things to me. I also would allow him to type things up. We did narrations.

At 7 he just wasn't really ready to do a lot of writing on his own. His motor skills were atrocious anyway...He only NOW likes to color and his handwriting is finally legible.

It's been a long road and while I don't have all the answers, I understand what it's like to go through what you are dealing with.
Maybe you could back off for awhile. Concentrate on making schoolwork enjoyable.
You also might want to try a different writing program after taking a break from all writing for awhile.
I also would not force him to do any creative writing right now. My aspie just can NOT do that worth beans. He is so literal that it's much easier for him to work with non-fiction things he's familiar with. I've found it's also easier when he works from an outline (IEW style). It gives him some structure and relieves him from the burden of trying to come up with things on his own.
After LOTS of narrating and outlining and writing from outlines, he's finalllllllyyyyyyyyy moving forward. Slowly.

[Hotdrink]

My Aspie kid dislikes writing, mainly because he gets frustrated if he can't instantly do it perfectly. The bit that frustrates me is that sometimes he will spend half an hour melting down about how he can't do it, then once he decides to do it he'll do a reasonable job in a minute or two. We are working with Handwriting Without Tears and it is going really well. The font isn't all that pretty, but it's very logical and doesn't require lots of writing. Some kids find it easier to try their best when they only have to do the letter 6 times to a page.

Obviously, you can unschool if you think it best. (You don't need anyone's permission! ;) ) However, the fact is that somme people will never learn to write decently without explicit teaching. My husband was never taught the correct strokes for letter formation, and he cannot write neatly. It doesn't bother him. It's up to you to decide whether legible writing is a necessity in life or not. I'm just pointing out that your child may not write nicely if you decide to unschool. But I guess that if the alternative entails making his life a misery, perhaps neat writing won't be your top priority...

[MamaSheep]

Writing has always been our hugest hurdle academically too. In talking with the school distric autism team (we sometimes utilize special ed services through the school) I have been given to understand that this is very typical of children on the autism spectrum. We have discussed the kinds of accommodations that would be considered very reasonable if he were enrolled in public schools. (To give some perspective on this, ds is considered to be of above average intelligence and has always been ahead of his peers in most academic areas, with the exception of language skills.) These are the kinds of things they suggested, and which they consider perfectly reasonable to do with Aspie kids. They are also, I am told, the kinds of accommodations he will be able to get at most colleges, as long as he has a documented disability requiring them:

- oral evaluations instead of written evaluations (he could give his answers verbally instead of in writing)
- extended testing time
- testing in a private room away from the class
- dictate answers to a scribe, who would then write them down
- typing instead of writing (laptop provided by the school)
- smaller quantity of written output (fewer and shorter assignments requiring writing)
- a note taker (student or adult who sits with him in class and takes notes for him)

There were some others, but I don't remember them. I was also told when he was younger that they don't usually try to teach Aspie kids in the district to write in cursive because they have a hard enough time just writing in print. I've found that ds's handwriting is actually better in cursive. Handwriting Without Tears was the only program that worked for us for handwriting.

He picked up a lot of bad attitudes and paranoias during his 4 years of public school (K-3) before I got brave enough to homeschool him (he had massive behavior issues back then), and we're still working through them. Writing is one that I have yet to figure out completely, but it does seem to be helping to do dictation with him this year, and to do outlines together. (I'm hoping to be able to bow out of the outlines here in a bit and let him do them on his own, but he's too scared right now, and panics if asked to do it alone.) He does better with lists than with sentences.

It IS frustrating. Ds tested last year as having the vocabulary of a 22+ year-old. The lady said she didn't even know a lot of the words he knew the meanings of. But he really struggles to put together two whole sentences of more than three words each in writing.

I wish I had answers. I guess this was all just to tell you that you're not alone with the Aspie writing "thing". :grouphug:

[Momto2Ns]

They are also, I am told, the kinds of accommodations he will be able to get at most colleges, as long as he has a documented disability requiring them:

- oral evaluations instead of written evaluations (he could give his answers verbally instead of in writing)
- extended testing time
- testing in a private room away from the class
- dictate answers to a scribe, who would then write them down
- typing instead of writing (laptop provided by the school)
- smaller quantity of written output (fewer and shorter assignments requiring writing)
- a note taker (student or adult who sits with him in class and takes notes for him) :grouphug:
:iagree:
My ds had all of these accommodations in public school. I wouldn't hesitate to give any of them in the homeschool environment. The truth is, we automatically have the time he needs, a quiet environment and he uses a computer most of the time. The rest has become unnecessary.

At 7, I would be his scribe when he gets frustrated and require less written output than your curriculum suggests.

[mama2cntrykids]

Oh thank you everyone! It is so good to hear that it's ok to give my Aspie modifications with written work. I guess in the back of my head I think "Am I runining him by accomodating his unwillingness to write??". But, it's ok really because he does have special needs (whether I'm ready to really "get" that or not!).

Thank you for the ideas also! I will check out HWT if all else fails. Or, I may just back off too. I guess we'll see. Thank you again for "verbalizing" that it's ok to modify (or just plain back off awhile). I feel better!

[dsmith]

My ds really had a problem with the physical aspects of writing - his hand would get cramped because his grip was too hard, along with other factors. He is a bit better now after some therapy, although cursive has been a struggle for him. (seriously considering dropping it) I will let him use the computer for spelling tests, which he loves - he gets to choose silly fonts, so it adds fun to something boring. We also will use the whiteboard for various things. At seven I wouldn't be too worried about a writing program - maybe you could encourage him using his interests. Ds would make a comic strip about Pokemon or Star Wars, or create robots and monsters, with dialogue. We are using WWE 1, even though he is 11, and it is really helping him. I write his narrations for him, and if he is doing a report for science or another subject, we keep it simple and take turns writing, or we use the computer.

[mama2cntrykids]

My ds really had a problem with the physical aspects of writing - his hand would get cramped because his grip was too hard, along with other factors. He is a bit better now after some therapy, although cursive has been a struggle for him. (seriously considering dropping it) I will let him use the computer for spelling tests, which he loves - he gets to choose silly fonts, so it adds fun to something boring. We also will use the whiteboard for various things. At seven I wouldn't be too worried about a writing program - maybe you could encourage him using his interests. Ds would make a comic strip about Pokemon or Star Wars, or create robots and monsters, with dialogue. We are using WWE 1, even though he is 11, and it is really helping him. I write his narrations for him, and if he is doing a report for science or another subject, we keep it simple and take turns writing, or we use the computer.

Thank you Dana. I've mostly cut out any open ended writing. But, he still has frustrations with just doing the workbook, which today we'll try on a dry erase instead. Off to school!

[AnitaMcC]

I've mentioned before how my 7 yr. old ds HATES writing. Hates it. The curriculum were doing now is about to up the anty with the writing portion in about two weeks. He hardly does it now. I mean, it can be like pulling teeth to get him to write four words!

Help me out here, if you can. I'm all :bigear: because I'm just spent! Thank you:grouphug:.


I totally relate. My 15 yr old still hates writing. It is the process of getting thoughts organized in the brain, getting it onto paper, and the physical act of writing words on paper that just is so very difficult for many Aspies. Ds's hand cramps up from writing but he has no physical discomfort when typing.

One thing that helped a lot is that my Ds uses the computer to write out his papers. Apprarently the brain works differently when typing than when physically writing out the words. Also they can easily go back and reword a sentence once they see it on the monitor. The first time the school let him use a computer to do an short essay... he typed four pages!!!!! This was in 4th grade after we got his dx and IEP. Up to this point he wouldn't write more than two sentences before having a complete melt down.

Also it depends on what topic is to be written. And they need to be told what the topic is. Very hard for them to come up with their own topic. For Ds the only papers he can truly write well is things about factual information and what his ideas and thoughts are on a subject. It is that idea of putting himself into someone else's shoes that just is so close to impossible.

Last night he was doing his composition daily work... it was so difficult for him and all he had to do was write a few sentences. The assignment was to write from a pet's point of view when they are getting fed. To tell what the pet his thinking. He just could not do it!!!!

So when it comes to these type of assignments I either completely change the assignment or I literally give him what to write. I figure if I am giving him the "answers" then it may eventually jump start his brain in that direction of abstract/inference type thoughts.

For when he was younger and what I do with his youngest brother (dx autism spectrum disorder) is that I ask questions and give ideas (sometimes to the point of putting words into their own mouths) and get them to verbally tell me what they want to write... it is very hard still for them. I then write what they say word from word... and then have them copy it onto their own paper.

[AnitaMcC]

My ds really had a problem with the physical aspects of writing - his hand would get cramped because his grip was too hard, along with other factors. He is a bit better now after some therapy, although cursive has been a struggle for him. (seriously considering dropping it) I will let him use the computer for spelling tests, which he loves - he gets to choose silly fonts, so it adds fun to something boring. We also will use the whiteboard for various things. At seven I wouldn't be too worried about a writing program - maybe you could encourage him using his interests. Ds would make a comic strip about Pokemon or Star Wars, or create robots and monsters, with dialogue. We are using WWE 1, even though he is 11, and it is really helping him. I write his narrations for him, and if he is doing a report for science or another subject, we keep it simple and take turns writing, or we use the computer.


Some Aspies just can't get cursive. I was told by a neuropyschologist that when you write each letter it is the same way written for every word when it is print form. But in cursive it can vary based on the letters connecting each letter. My Ds just could not "see" words but instead it all was just squiggly lines.

To help my Ds learn to read cursive we just had him type on the computer a sentence and then we copied that sentence (copy/paste) about two-three more times. Then each copy the font was changed to different cursive styles but not too different. He still can't write cursive, not even his full name, but he can read cursive some (still weak in it but he is getting there slowly).

When he was in ps middle school, he just let his teachers know he couldn't read cursive well if it was causing him any problems in school. And his IEP included that he was not to be required to write cursive.

Now in his college course he is taking, it hasn't been a problem as it is a computer course-LOL. His teacher rarely writes anything...it is done on computer.

[JennW in SoCal]

Yes!! to all that Anita has described.

My aspie, who has graduated, did very little writing until he was at least 12. He learned to type early, did handwriting work books, but most of his work was done orally until he was about 12. His first narrations at that age were awkward and wrenched out of him, but he quickly progressed. I'm glad I didn't force the writing issue before that. His typing skills can keep pace with his brain, and he likes that he can rearrange his thoughts as he gets them down. He did really well having a formula for a 5 paragraph essay, and if his topic and thoughts on the topic were clear, he could write a decent essay with a certain amount of flair.

Anita -- you've described the other challenge so well -- the challenge of topics!! The literal mind of an Aspie really handicaps them with certain assignments and with analyzing literature. My ds got so he could recognize that something was supposed to by symbolic, but to him it was always the stupidest thing to use a symbol -- why can't they just say what is going on and move on with the story?

So, to the original poster -- by all means back off on the writing. Do a handwriting program, let him learn to type and simply talk about everything so he gets comfortable with expressing his ideas.

[mama2cntrykids]

Well, the dry erase board and gel pencil grips were basically flops. Tomorrow we're going to try out typing on the computer and see if that's any better. He did most of his math orally today and the writing earlier bombed! It was very stressful for both of us and I **DO NOT** want to repeat it tomorrow.

It seemed for quite awhile he was doing so well, then we just started hitting bad days every so often, now they're more often than not :(.

[elise1mds]

Dry erase is awful for us, too. There's no "grip" to the board, so the handwriting has the chance to just go every which way. Paper that is too thin doesn't work, either. I've been through the wringer trying to find a type of paper that he likes that also has big enough lines for him to write on. I don't make my boy do a lot of writing, either. He'll do one page of Handwriting Without Tears and either a line of grammar writing or his spelling 'trouble list' per day, and that's about it. He likes taking math tests orally, and I write his dictations for history. His dictations can be very detailed when I do the writing, but if he has to do it, I might get three words. I check with TWTM for a reference point as to what SWB says we "should" be doing right now for most subjects, but I know that in handwriting, we'll always be a year or so behind. As long as he does make progress in the long run, I'm okay with that :)

[MamaSheep]

It's so interesting to me that some of your kids don't like to use marker boards. My ds LOVES to do his math on the marker board and hates using a pencil or pen on paper. I think it's a tactile sensory "thing" related to the sensation of the implement scratching across the paper, whereas the markers on the board glide smoothly.

Fascinating people, Aspies.

[mama2cntrykids]

I'm going to order HWT by the end of the week. Today, he used the computer for his "writing" and it was 10,000x BETTER! I was flooded with relief (as he probably was too!). I'm praying that with HWT being different it will help him want to write words. One step at a time. I need to inject some fun into our school too.

[KarenAnne]

Like Jenn's son, my Aspie daughter also did very little writing up through about age eleven or so. She dictated almost everything when she was your son's age. Then she got really interested in old typewriters: the kind with little bells pinging at the end of a line, the manual page release/return, the thunking keys. Electric ones were easier because the keys were easier to press. I found a used typewriter at an old junk shop and she messed around on that for a bit.

In around sixth grade she became very interested in fonts and practiced for hours, literally hours, every night, just making words and lists and alphabets with different fonts. This actually still goes on today (she's nearly fourteen).

Then suddenly, apparently out of nowhere, her stamina for writing and her ability just took off. Today she can write a really good essay or argument of up to four pages -- as long as it's not about metaphorical language, symbolism, or some very subtle character development.

Handwriting Without Tears is a terrific program to start out with, not least because you have so much leeway: kids can form letters out of clay, write in pudding or sand, trace sandpaper letters, etc. I did this with my daughter long past the standard age at which such things are usually done. She also wrote in chalk on the driveway, used invisible ink, had a little German-made post office kit we found that she loved because she could write pretend postcards and put stickers and stamps on them, etc. My daughter also wrote lists -- endless, ENDLESS lists -- far after I felt she should be moving on to other things. I'm glad in retrospect that I let her approach writing on her own terms as much as I could bear to, because I think she needed an extended foundation in just the material aspect of writing before she could move on to composition. A lot of Aspies have such tremendous trouble reproducing the physical form of letters that their minds are fully taken up with this and have no room for content until their hands and minds finally get connected up properly. Then they will suddenly make huge leaps that astound you.

I agree -- make it stress-free for both of you. Seven is still really, really young, and there's no need to push if it what it produces is anxiety and resistance.

[jensway]

I have a 12 yr. old Aspie male and he abhors writing. He can do workpages but anything longer than a couple of sentences he wants to and gets to do it on the computer. No more frustration.

[Misty]

My Aspie daughters have trouble with writing.. Both the physical act (penmanship) and also putting thoughts on paper. Teaching my oldest daughter to type was the ONLY thing that helped her to overcome this. She LOVES to write now, but only if it's something that she has dreamed up in her head.. If I give her a topic to write about, she will struggle with it. She does much better if she does the report on the computer than she would with a pencil.. Pencil and paper are very difficult for her. She LOVES to read so she gets much of her education just through reading. I do require daily handwriting practice because I don't want her handwriting to look like a 2nd graders when she is in college. But there are a lot of things that I allow her to do orally or on the computer.

[Mamakarla]

My 12 yo son with HFA HATES to write too, and HATES school. It is so hard sometimes!!! I have ended up doing more of a interest-based style of learning, forgoing all of the wonderful programs out there I would like to do, and just concentrating on the basics and reading aloud on the couch......and even the basics are a struggle! The current problem with his writing is that he INSISTS on writing everything in capital letters.....he does NOT want to write in lower case, even though he does know how. I really don't know if it is worth it to insist that he write in lowercase, or just let him do the capitals he likes to do?

He also is not doing cursive and I've really been thinking about whether it is necessary or not....my older kids (who are in their mid-to-late 20's and homeschooled all the way through) learned cursive, but none of them uses it now....I think that if he knows how to read it, it's not really something to worry about.....has anyone NOT required cursive? What do you think?

The other idea I liked, and had thought of, was to start with WWE I, even though it is pretty simple and way below grade level, and just let him work consistently though that and build his skills that way in a relatively painless way.....it's good to hear that others have done that same thing....it really can be a challenge sometimes to know what to do, what to require and what to let slide by......

Anyway, just rambling....this thread caught my eye since it's something I deal with everyday!

[mama2cntrykids]

Well, ds decided today that he didn't want to use the computer because he has to search out the letters (bang head, bang head!!). So, we went back to him telling me which word goes in the blank, me writing it and him copying it. Wait, we **tried** doing that but he refused, so we skipped it (another bang head here). What really get's me is this...at the very beginning of the workbook it's a review of letter formation A-Z, upper and lowercases'. He will do those no question. Why then won't he do the fill in the blank portion? Then we went onto Math...sigh. He didn't want to do that after a few problems either. The reason? He said all the thinking made his head hurt! It's simple addition/subtraction. He understands it and get's almost everything correct. Why is there always an excuse???

I obviously love him. I **want** to love HSing him. PS is not an option for us (everythough in the mist of the butting heads, it's seems like it would be HUGE relief/break).

Next step? I'm almost thinking unit studies on his obsessions. Or something like Time4learning. But, we have dial-up, so I'm not sure how T4L would work. Ideas?? Just keep swimming???? That's what I tell myself anyways.

[MamaSheep]

Well, ds decided today that he didn't want to use the computer because he has to search out the letters (bang head, bang head!!). So, we went back to him telling me which word goes in the blank, me writing it and him copying it. Wait, we **tried** doing that but he refused, so we skipped it (another bang head here). What really get's me is this...at the very beginning of the workbook it's a review of letter formation A-Z, upper and lowercases'. He will do those no question. Why then won't he do the fill in the blank portion? Then we went onto Math...sigh. He didn't want to do that after a few problems either. The reason? He said all the thinking made his head hurt! It's simple addition/subtraction. He understands it and get's almost everything correct. Why is there always an excuse???

I obviously love him. I **want** to love HSing him. PS is not an option for us (everythough in the mist of the butting heads, it's seems like it would be HUGE relief/break).

Next step? I'm almost thinking unit studies on his obsessions. Or something like Time4learning. But, we have dial-up, so I'm not sure how T4L would work. Ideas?? Just keep swimming???? That's what I tell myself anyways.

We still have days like that too. I have no answers, though I find it helps sometimes to remind myself that he really does have a disability and isn't (always) just being that way on purpose, and that he's probably at least as frustrated with the situation as I am. It also helps to remind myself that at least he no longer rips his books in half, hides under the back corner of the table, and tries to stab me with his pencil when I attempt to get him to come out. (Typical day of four years ago.) These days he does a lot of his work independently and without a lot of complaining (most days....there are other days I just want to pull all my hair out and sell him to the gypsies). Some days he needs me more involved than others, but in the past week or so there have been several days when he got tired of waiting for me and just went and did the whole day's worth of work entirely on his own and without attitude. It's like the Twilight Zone, but in a good way. On the other hand, a couple of weeks ago there were a couple days I could not get the boy to do ANY. THING. CONSTRUCTIVE. I decided I wasn't going to fight it. I'd been down that road and did not feel like beating my head against that wall all day, so I just took everyone to the dinosaur museum (he finds the museum relaxing--in the daytime when there aren't many people--and dd loves it there too). I was a little afraid I'd get attitude the next day in the hopes of getting me to call off school again, but instead it seemed like whatever was going on there had run its course and he was quite cheerful and cooperative and nary a word about museums.

I dunno...these kids just work differently than other kids. I think this is our first year EVER that life with this boy has not just been a constant battleground of one kind or another. He was a dreadful baby--I mean I loved him, don't get me wrong, and we did have our share of superfun moments, but the child never slept, was an insanely picky eater, wanted to be held all the time by heaven forbid you should try to cuddle him, and instead of crying or fussing like a normal baby he had this horrific blood-curdling scream. He was even worse as a preschooler. And K-3rd grade at the local elementary school was nightmarish for everyone involved. Homeschooling ds has definitely not been a picnic in the park, but it's so vastly much better than public school that I don't really feel like there's another realistic option. We've been chipping slowly away at his "issues" for four years now, and I can honestly say I'm finally starting to really enjoy his company (especially when he can actually have a conversation instead of lecturing me about the ultraviolet light requirements of the plant Sim that manages his toy store on Sims 2 or whatever), and I am starting to be able to ask him to do things and get a pleasant response of "I'm on it, Mom!" followed by actual (if not yet entirely skilled or age-appropriate) results.


I'm finding that what works best for ds (which is absolutely not a guarantee that it would work for any other child, sorry) is:

a lot of non-fiction reading (science and history)
a little fiction reading RELATED to something he's studying, mostly historical novels
a few short stories, especially ones with interesting plot twists at the end
charts, posters, pictures of what we're studying
Oral reports
Memorization
"Explain what you read about" rather than "write a summary"
STRUCTURE and consistency. Our workbox system (new this year) has made a lot of difference in his attitude and cooperation, as he can easily see what's done and what's left, and knows that he will have all the supplies he needs to do whatever task he is being asked to do. Maintaining a regular routine so that he knows what to expect next makes a big difference too. Warning him in advance of changes to the routine is important. Knowing when he can have breaks, and for how long is also helpful. (A 10 minute break is allowed after each 2 completed drawers. You don't have to ask, and I will not tell you no. Don't ask at other times, because I will ALWAYS say no.)
Tape, not glue (This is a tactile sensory "thing"; it makes a HUGE difference to him. Also, I have a little Xyron sticker maker thingy that he uses for some things, like his time line book, that makes the stickiness more manageable. Sticky might not be a problem for your child, but there may be some other sensory "thing" that can make a big difference if you can figure out where the hang-up is--and they can't always tell you, no matter HOW "verbal" they might be.)
A timer. "Let's see how many you can finish before it goes off." "Work on it for X minutes, and then you can stop even if it isn't finished, but I will stop the timer if I see you not working on it, and start it up again only when you are working." That sort of thing.
Compliments. "I like how the curves on this letter are so smooth, and the lines are straight, well done! You're getting so much better at this lately, I bet you'll get a whole sentence next time," works so much better than "This is supposed to be a paragraph. You only wrote two words!" Sometimes it helps to make a list of general compliments and keep it where you can glance at it, but he won't see it. There are times I do NOT feel like complimenting, but those are the times it's most important, and the list helps me think of something to say. "I could tell you were trying really hard to control your temper, and even though it didn't work out so well, I want you to know I really appreciate how hard you tried." There is ALWAYS something to compliment. No, really.
Basing the level of work on his current ability level in that specific subject/skill rather than on what kids his age "should" be able to do, or what a child who can do X in one subject "ought" to be able to do in another subject/skill. Just because he has the vocabulary of a 22 year old and spells well does NOT mean he can write a sentence. (Baffling as that may seem.) Working at the right level makes for more cooperation and faster progress than working at a higher level, but fighting over it all day.
Tailoring the AMOUNT of work to his current mental endurance level. It took me a long time to learn to gage this properly, but it does make a big difference. There comes a point for all of us when we just can. not. face. any. more. It comes sooner for him than for most people, just because his nervous system is dealing with "stuff" the rest of us don't even notice. When he gets to that point, he REALLY is at that point, and I need to respect that, even if it doesn't match up with my lesson plans for the day and I have to rearrange our plans for the whole week (I don't schedule things for him more than a week in advance, though I do have a list of lessons so I know what is "next" whenever we get to it.) I find that when he trusts me to believe him when he hits the wall, AND trusts me to make an honest effort to only give him what I know he can handle, he cooperates better, we get more done, and we're still friends at the end of the day.
Convincing him that we're on the same side, and I am not the enemy. This has not been easy and I'm not sure he's completely convinced yet. It involves listening to his opinions, negotiating compromises, giving him choices so he feels he has some control over his own life, explaining WHY I think he must do whatever it is in nauseating detail, commiserating over set-backs, celebrating victories, however small, sympathizing when you want to swear....that sort of thing.
(cont.)

[MamaSheep]

(cont.)
Things that have not worked out well for us:

Lots of hands-on projects and crafts. We do a few because I think it's important for motor development and also learning to tolerate new kinds of activities, but it works best if our projects are carefully selected and clearly relevant to a subject we are learning about. Most of our hands-on stuff is science at the moment.
Busy-work of any kind. School work is a struggle for him in so many ways. It is just cruel to ask him to expend that amount of mental and physical effort on pointless nonsense.
Surprises. Just not a good plan with this one, though he enjoys surprising others.
Computer learning has never worked out well for us, which seems really odd since you can not pry the child off the computer outside school hours (comptuers have been a primary obsession for him since he was three). I am not entirely sure why this is, but suspect it may have something to do with the enemy (school) invading his happy territory. He is using Teaching Textbooks, and sometimes he does his lessons on the computer, but it makes him cranky and overstimulated when he does.
Scolding and criticism. Seriously counter-productive. Never ask, "What were you thinking?" no matter how much I am tempted. He does not know, and could not explain it if he did, and then I just get frustrated that he's not answering my (ridiculous) question. Never ask, "What is wrong with you?" even if it seems like the only possible response to the situation. Asperger's Syndrome is what's wrong with him. Also puberty. And possibly something to do with his gene pool....ahem.
Trying to bring his obsessions into school too much or in a wrong way (which can be tricky). For example, he was really into penguins a while back, and I tried to help him to a lapbook on penguins, looking up and recording facts about their diet, distribution, different types, etc. It did NOT go over well. There was much screaming and throwing of things involved, and the main result has been that if he asks me something about whatever his current obsession is, and I say, "I don't know, let's look it up," he immediately shuts down. He will NOT look things up. He will read about them, but will not research them. Sigh. On the other hand, when crickets were all the rage with him, we had a sticker chart where he got stickers for good behavior and could trade them in at the end of the week for crickets from the local pet store's food section. (Hey, I was desperate.) And this year he asked if we could study physics, and has been very cooperative with all I've asked of him there (except any related writing...grrr.) So I've learned to be careful and let him take the lead when it comes to involving his private mental turf.
Anyway, good luck to you. There is hope. It got better for us. Much, much, much better. Seriously. But it has taken a long time and a lot of work and there have been many days I just wanted to chuck the whole project and send him back to school. And we do still have rather a long row to hoe ahead of us with that one. Honestly, I think "just keep swimming" is about the best you can do, sometimes. And it does actually get results over the long haul. Go have some chocolate. And it's ok if you step back a little on the particularly bad days and give both of you a little break. He's stressed out too. :grouphug:

[dsmith]

Ds had this problem at first. We tried typing programs, but they were too much for him and never worked no matter which one we tried. He eventually started going to websites based on his interests, like Lego. They have message boards that he became active on. His cousins introduced him to Club Penguin, Webkinz, and a few other online sites. Once he became involved in these sites his typing speed took off. He will never learn the 'proper' method of keyboarding, but he types pretty darn fast! DH types the same way as ds does, and he is an IT professional and types faster than anyone I know.


Well, ds decided today that he didn't want to use the computer because he has to search out the letters (bang head, bang head!!).

[angelaland]

My DS is 9 and we just began homeschooling this month after fighting the private and public schools since preschool.

He has just been diagnosed Asperger's, co-morbid with Pediatric Bipolar and ADHD. The poor kid just can't catch a break...

While we trying to have the school evaluate him to qualify for emotional disturbance last year, they found something very interesting. While his IQ was incredibly high, in the 99% range, his processing speed ranked at the 16%. It was a huge disparity. The psychologist even commented that she could see his eyes wander several problems ahead of his pencil. His brain wasn't able to get his hand to move as fast as was thinking, which is incredibly frustrating. When you give this kind of frustration to a child who already has rage issues and is a perfectionist, you can imagine what ensued.

I'm wondering if the processing speed is an Asperger's trait. Does anyone know?

His permanent psychologist did further testing recently and said that the processing speed will be something that he very well might outgrow with maturity. I wonder if that is what you parents with older children are experiencing? Wouldn't that be wonderful to know that it will most likely get better?? I know that I would breathe a sigh of relief.

Angela

[asta]

As you know, fine motor skills are often difficult for aspies.

I was also told when he was younger that they don't usually try to teach Aspie kids in the district to write in cursive because they have a hard enough time just writing in print.

If you take a look at this thread (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151641&highlight=stylo) on fountain pens, you'll see how my DS learned to write. He never really "got" block printing, and it is STILL atrocious, even at 16. His European script, however, is lovely. And he learned almost exactly that method (I looked it up for Elizabeth - it was the closest thing I could find to what the Belgian teachers used with him).

My ds really had a problem with the physical aspects of writing - his hand would get cramped because his grip was too hard, along with other factors. He is a bit better now after some therapy, although cursive has been a struggle for him. (seriously considering dropping it)

DS struggled with the hard grip thing until they worked with him on the fountain pen (stylo). He now only has a grip problem with a pencil. It's weird.

I know of a couple of parents who threw up their hands in regards to the handwriting thing altogether with the idea that their kid would "just end up using a computer anyway" in the future. I think they did their kids a disservice. If their kids had been incapable of writing (as I know many are) and needed to use an assistive device for communication - I could TOTALLY see looking to a keyboard-primary/centered writing program. But if all the kid needs is for us to adjust to him or her, rather than the other way around? I say, let's adjust.

Oh, and my kid thrived on IEW also (everything else didn't work). Structure. He's all about structure. :001_smile:


a

[Violet]

I am coming to this thread late. It has been so good to read all of your stories and suggestions. My 10 yo dd has severe dysgraphia. She does okay copywork or writing spelling words, etc. Where her problems show up is when she free writes. What she writes is almost completely illegible. When she can text on a mobile phone or use a keyboard, it is amazing how different her level of communication becomes. There is suddenly a maturity there that she cannot duplicate when writing by hand-- maybe because when handwriting she has to focus so hard on the physical process as opposed to getting her thoughts out.

I agree with Asta that if I can help her learn to write with pen by adjusting to her, that's what I want to do. I never thought about fountain pens. I can't believe I never thought about them. They were never mentioned in her OT sessions either when she was in OT. So, I'm thrilled and thankful this came up here and that I have this to look into now for her. :001_smile:

[dsmith]

Thanks for posting this. I've never thought about trying a fountain pen but it makes perfect sense now that I think about it. Ds has a problem with perfectionism, and tends to crumple up a paper (angrily) when making mistakes, so I suspect we will have to work even harder on this tendency. We've been working on crossing out and moving on, but I admit I share this tendency with him. (ds's neuro is always talking about shadow syndromes in parents:001_smile:)


As you know, fine motor skills are often difficult for aspies.


If you take a look at this thread (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151641&highlight=stylo) on fountain pens, you'll see how my DS learned to write. He never really "got" block printing, and it is STILL atrocious, even at 16. His European script, however, is lovely. And he learned almost exactly that method (I looked it up for Elizabeth - it was the closest thing I could find to what the Belgian teachers used with him).


DS struggled with the hard grip thing until they worked with him on the fountain pen (stylo). He now only has a grip problem with a pencil. It's weird.


a

[KarenAnne]

My husband is also an Aspie; he learned to write in a British boarding school using fountain pens and dipping ink pots -- going over and over and over and over the same strokes. His handwriting is very slow and labored, but it's beautiful, very calligraphic. My daughter, aged 13, used Handwriting Without Tears. She has an awful pencil grip, breaks mechanical pencil lead constantly, but her writing is now legible after years of difficulty. But she does still tend to drop or mix letters as she writes, a result, I think, of her mind working way ahead of her brain. Unfortunately keyboarding is not any easier for her; she has fine motor issues, a speed problem of eyes-brain-finger links, which affects everything from keeping rhythm to trying to play an instrument to writing.

The gap one reader mentioned between general IQ and performance IQ is typical of nonverbal learning disorder. This often comes along with Asperger's Syndrome. The difference as I understand it -- and I'm not quite clear on it just yet -- is that NLD describes a learning profile, while Asperger's describes a behavioral/neurological syndrome.

When my daughter was diagnosed with NLD (a few years after her Asperger's diagnosis), the neuropsychologist recommended vision therapy. We'd done this years before, with a paper-based therapy, and it did squat all. This time I went to a recommended sports vision therapist. The work my daughter did was geared toward establishing and honing eye-brain-body links: she did lots of stuff with a tennis ball hanging from a string on the ceiling, standing on a balance board doing tasks like throwing bean bags at a target, using both hands to draw on a big board at the same time, etc. This was really difficult for her, but she is now unafraid of moving balls for the first time in her life, her reading stamina took the most gigantic leap forward imaginable, and her spelling and writing improved although the therapy was NOT focused on that. I have no clue why.

The other thing that has helped is horseback riding. Kids with autism spectrum disorders, ADD, and processing problems often qualify for free therapeutic riding, if this is available in your area. My daughter has progressed from that to regular lessons. Apparently there's something about the constant rebalancing required that allows kids to alter the processing sections of their brains, to make automatic certain mental processes that they had to totally focus on before, which slowed them down dramatically. I don't quite understand this, but I have read it in a number of places. OT balance exercises are often based on the same kind of thing, but the horse therapy differs in that the child is interacting with a live animal and having to learn to read its signs and respond to its movements. Once the perceptual areas of the brain get rewired, so to speak, the energy and neural circuits that once had to be used for processing physical movements are now freed up to be applied to other areas. That at least is the theory.
And I have seen my daughter advance in huge leaps and bounds since she began riding. This has coincided with adolescence, when some theorists say that kids who have the most terrible coordination problems can sometimes begin to catch up to their bodies -- although some take even longer (Michael Jordan, for instance).

All this said, there's no doubt my daughter still struggles with fine motor skills and with writing. There hasn't been a magical cure. She probably always will, in terms of being able to keep up with her mind, even if she is eventually able to keyboard. I see this with my husband; he's still just slow as a writer. But he does function -- he is a professor of marine chemistry who has to write all the time for his work: grant proposals, articles for publication, etc. (He is usually late or in crisis mode with deadlines, however.) And my daughter is producing some good work, light years better than what she was capable of a year or two ago. The difference between the two of them is that my husband was trained more rigidly and in an old-fashioned way, which happened to suit him; while my daughter has had far more difficulty physically with her fingers and has at the same time a creative and individualistic streak that has made the classical calligraphic training not work for her. She has also needed OT and vision work, while my husband did not.

Every Asperger's kid is different even though so many of them share problems with dysgraphia or processing speed. So the more stories of different paths taken, the more options we have to think about as we observe our own kids closely and think about what might benefit them most...

[elise1mds]

These days he does a lot of his work independently and without a lot of complaining (most days....there are other days I just want to pull all my hair out and sell him to the gypsies). Some days he needs me more involved than others, but in the past week or so there have been several days when he got tired of waiting for me and just went and did the whole day's worth of work entirely on his own and without attitude. It's like the Twilight Zone, but in a good way. On the other hand, a couple of weeks ago there were a couple days I could not get the boy to do ANY. THING. CONSTRUCTIVE.


OK, that made me :lol:

There's no telling what you're going to wake up to with an Aspie on any given day. Mine has trouble sleeping, and if he's had a rough night, it's a guarantee that he'll be "trouble" during the day - in quotes because he just doesn't get it, not that he's deliberately sabotaging his schoolwork... usually. If he's slept well, I have a 50/50 shot of a good day. I'm swapping to a workbox method as of tomorrow - we'd been doing an extremely modified version and I'm having to go to a stricter version to make things work (I posted another thread about that earlier in the week). It's extremely frustrating.

Maybe you could bargain with him on the bad days? If he writes two letters of fill-in-the-blank, he gets a sticker or five-minute break or other small treat. After a few weeks of that, up the ante to four letters. I really thing HWT will help you out, too. My son had used it in his private school kindergarten, but you can't use HWT properly with a class of 19 kids, and he came home this year with awful handwriting. I redid the entire book with him, and he's now working only slightly below grade level with his handwriting. He can't do it for long - one short sentence tops - but I can at least *READ* it now, and he doesn't go around the house throwing his pencil at random objects yelling, "I hate writing!!!!" It's been a godsend. Play-Doh to help with hand strength was big for us, too, as were grips to help him hold the pencil correctly because most pencils are too skinny for him to hold with his fine motor skills issues. We can usually get away with the beginner Ticonderoga pencils now, but sometimes I still have to break out the ones with grips.

:grouphug: Hang in there. It's soooo tough when they fight you day in and and day out, and there are days I want to sell mine to the gypsies, too, but each day is new. The best advice I ever got as a mom was "take it one day at a time, because you can't screw them up in one day!" ;)

[mama2cntrykids]

Ds had this problem at first. We tried typing programs, but they were too much for him and never worked no matter which one we tried. He eventually started going to websites based on his interests, like Lego. They have message boards that he became active on. His cousins introduced him to Club Penguin, Webkinz, and a few other online sites. Once he became involved in these sites his typing speed took off. He will never learn the 'proper' method of keyboarding, but he types pretty darn fast! DH types the same way as ds does, and he is an IT professional and types faster than anyone I know.
Hmmm, Lego websites might do some good if it involves typing, but he's only a so-so reader at this point and may not be interested in forums. I will take a look though!

(cont.)

Things that have not worked out well for us:

Lots of hands-on projects and crafts. We do a few because I think it's important for motor development and also learning to tolerate new kinds of activities, but it works best if our projects are carefully selected and clearly relevant to a subject we are learning about. Most of our hands-on stuff is science at the moment.
Busy-work of any kind. School work is a struggle for him in so many ways. It is just cruel to ask him to expend that amount of mental and physical effort on pointless nonsense.
Surprises. Just not a good plan with this one, though he enjoys surprising others.
Computer learning has never worked out well for us, which seems really odd since you can not pry the child off the computer outside school hours (comptuers have been a primary obsession for him since he was three). I am not entirely sure why this is, but suspect it may have something to do with the enemy (school) invading his happy territory. He is using Teaching Textbooks, and sometimes he does his lessons on the computer, but it makes him cranky and overstimulated when he does.
Scolding and criticism. Seriously counter-productive. Never ask, "What were you thinking?" no matter how much I am tempted. He does not know, and could not explain it if he did, and then I just get frustrated that he's not answering my (ridiculous) question. Never ask, "What is wrong with you?" even if it seems like the only possible response to the situation. Asperger's Syndrome is what's wrong with him. Also puberty. And possibly something to do with his gene pool....ahem.
Trying to bring his obsessions into school too much or in a wrong way (which can be tricky). For example, he was really into penguins a while back, and I tried to help him to a lapbook on penguins, looking up and recording facts about their diet, distribution, different types, etc. It did NOT go over well. There was much screaming and throwing of things involved, and the main result has been that if he asks me something about whatever his current obsession is, and I say, "I don't know, let's look it up," he immediately shuts down. He will NOT look things up. He will read about them, but will not research them. Sigh. On the other hand, when crickets were all the rage with him, we had a sticker chart where he got stickers for good behavior and could trade them in at the end of the week for crickets from the local pet store's food section. (Hey, I was desperate.) And this year he asked if we could study physics, and has been very cooperative with all I've asked of him there (except any related writing...grrr.) So I've learned to be careful and let him take the lead when it comes to involving his private mental turf.
Anyway, good luck to you. There is hope. It got better for us. Much, much, much better. Seriously. But it has taken a long time and a lot of work and there have been many days I just wanted to chuck the whole project and send him back to school. And we do still have rather a long row to hoe ahead of us with that one. Honestly, I think "just keep swimming" is about the best you can do, sometimes. And it does actually get results over the long haul. Go have some chocolate. And it's ok if you step back a little on the particularly bad days and give both of you a little break. He's stressed out too. :grouphug:
Thank you Amy for your wonderful suggestions, thoughts, reassurances and been there done that! I will go back over your post because there's a lot of info to be gleamed:001_smile:.


OK, that made me :lol:

There's no telling what you're going to wake up to with an Aspie on any given day. Mine has trouble sleeping, and if he's had a rough night, it's a guarantee that he'll be "trouble" during the day - in quotes because he just doesn't get it, not that he's deliberately sabotaging his schoolwork... usually. If he's slept well, I have a 50/50 shot of a good day. I'm swapping to a workbox method as of tomorrow - we'd been doing an extremely modified version and I'm having to go to a stricter version to make things work (I posted another thread about that earlier in the week). It's extremely frustrating.

Maybe you could bargain with him on the bad days? If he writes two letters of fill-in-the-blank, he gets a sticker or five-minute break or other small treat. After a few weeks of that, up the ante to four letters. I really thing HWT will help you out, too. My son had used it in his private school kindergarten, but you can't use HWT properly with a class of 19 kids, and he came home this year with awful handwriting. I redid the entire book with him, and he's now working only slightly below grade level with his handwriting. He can't do it for long - one short sentence tops - but I can at least *READ* it now, and he doesn't go around the house throwing his pencil at random objects yelling, "I hate writing!!!!" It's been a godsend. Play-Doh to help with hand strength was big for us, too, as were grips to help him hold the pencil correctly because most pencils are too skinny for him to hold with his fine motor skills issues. We can usually get away with the beginner Ticonderoga pencils now, but sometimes I still have to break out the ones with grips.

:grouphug: Hang in there. It's soooo tough when they fight you day in and and day out, and there are days I want to sell mine to the gypsies, too, but each day is new. The best advice I ever got as a mom was "take it one day at a time, because you can't screw them up in one day!" ;)
I can totally relate to the not knowing what I'm going to wake up to in the morning!! Lately, it's been bad news, lol. We're starting on a reptile unit study tomorrow and I told ds about it. He asked if he has to write and I told him that we'll try just writing letters (not like actual letters to ppl, but letters...A, B, C, etc.). He seemed ok with that. It baffles me that he's ok with THAT kind of writing but the fill-in-the-blank stuff is a no-go (even though he can read it and TELL me the answer:001_huh:). Oh, small rewards are also a good idea. I've thought about those before but I'm not sure how fair it is to my NT ds. Hmmm, I'll have to figure out something there. Thank you!

[MamaSheep]

OK, that made me :lol:

There's no telling what you're going to wake up to with an Aspie on any given day. Mine has trouble sleeping, and if he's had a rough night, it's a guarantee that he'll be "trouble" during the day - in quotes because he just doesn't get it, not that he's deliberately sabotaging his schoolwork... usually. If he's slept well, I have a 50/50 shot of a good day. I'm swapping to a workbox method as of tomorrow - we'd been doing an extremely modified version and I'm having to go to a stricter version to make things work (I posted another thread about that earlier in the week). It's extremely frustrating.

Maybe you could bargain with him on the bad days? If he writes two letters of fill-in-the-blank, he gets a sticker or five-minute break or other small treat. After a few weeks of that, up the ante to four letters. I really thing HWT will help you out, too. My son had used it in his private school kindergarten, but you can't use HWT properly with a class of 19 kids, and he came home this year with awful handwriting. I redid the entire book with him, and he's now working only slightly below grade level with his handwriting. He can't do it for long - one short sentence tops - but I can at least *READ* it now, and he doesn't go around the house throwing his pencil at random objects yelling, "I hate writing!!!!" It's been a godsend. Play-Doh to help with hand strength was big for us, too, as were grips to help him hold the pencil correctly because most pencils are too skinny for him to hold with his fine motor skills issues. We can usually get away with the beginner Ticonderoga pencils now, but sometimes I still have to break out the ones with grips.

:grouphug: Hang in there. It's soooo tough when they fight you day in and and day out, and there are days I want to sell mine to the gypsies, too, but each day is new. The best advice I ever got as a mom was "take it one day at a time, because you can't screw them up in one day!" ;)

Hee hee! My mother used to say, "I've never had a day yet that I didn't live through," and, "It will be good experience, even if it's not a good experience." Moms are great. I wonder what my kids will remember me saying. Probably, "I didn't say you had to like it, I said you had to do it." (Or the meal time version in which I said they had to eat it.)

I totally agree that you never know what you're going to wake up to with an Aspie. And you have to just learn to kind of roll with the punches and pick your battles. There WILL be bad days. There will also be good ones.

HWT has definitely been a help around here. Pencil grips, not so much. They tried those when he was in public school, and he has some...let's say "problematic emotional associations" with pencil grips. And other things. School was not a pleasant place for him, even though the staff was really great and tried really hard to make it work. Stickers and candy no longer carry the punch they once did, and playdoh still makes him hyperventilate (tactile sensory issues--playdoh leaves a residue; you should see the horrified look he gets on his face when his sister plays with it) but we did get through a lot of school work in the early years by handing out M&M's, chocolate chips, pieces of yummy dry cereal, and other treats one at a time as he finished each problem or word. It still amazes me that for the last year and a half or so I've been able to say, "Go do your math," and he does--without me sitting next to his elbow coaxing and encouraging and doing half the writing. He'll ask for help still, but only when he legitimately needs it. Sometimes I get teary-eyed just watching him work. And where I used to know every day when I woke up that it was going to be a bad day, and the question wasn't "good day or bad day" it was "how bad will it be today", nowadays the bad days actually catch me by surprise because they have gotten so few and far between. A couple weeks ago I woke up to scrambled eggs and toast, which he had made for the whole family. He's really an astoundingly strong person to be able to work through some of the things he has to the degree he has already at his young age. I joke about selling him to the gypsies, but really I would not trade him, or the experience of being his mother, for anything. Which is not to say it isn't still hard, just to say I find him amazing TOO.

Writing is the last great hold-out, academically (let's not go into social issues just now...lol). When we started this homeschool journey, just the suggestion that he pick up a pencil (other than to use as a weapon) would bring on an all-out full-blown out of control fight or flight melt-down. Nowadays, he writes all of his math himself, true/false and multiple choice questions, some fill in the blank kinds of things, and short dictations or copywork. He still gets that panic-stricken glint in his eye when I ask him to write anything original, but will sometimes hang in there long enough to give me a few very short, choppy sentences if I've been specific enough in what I'm asking for. Some days, he still flees the room briefly, though, to get a grip on himself again. But even that only lasts a few minutes, whereas it used to throw everything for at least the rest of that day. So, babysteps, y'know? He's really come a long way. I get impatient sometimes wanting him to write at a grade-appropriate level, and have to make myself compare his work to where he's coming from instead of comparing it to "other kids his age". KWIM?

Of course, puberty is beginning to set in now, so who knows what kind of ride we'll be on for the next few years. One thing's for sure, life with an Aspie is never boring. :D

[Verity]

My 11 year old Aspie reminds me alot of what I've read on this thread. He greatly struggles with those fine motor and gross motor/balance/spatial issues. He also has always struggled with sleep (since he was newborn), generalized anxiety (especially social) and the whole myriad of common problems.

This year I have been using something similar to the workbox approach. I type up a weekly calendar of assignments and include copies of all needed worksheets in order behind the weekly calendar and keep them in one binder. We check off each box as we go. I give him some flexibility in chosing when to do certain subjects (except the ones that I co-teach to his younger brother). I continue to learn when to back off and let him go swing outside, jump on his mini-trampoline or take the dog for a walk versus when to push - get out the timer and challenge him to complete a section before the alarm goes off.

Writing has always been a huge issue for him - more than your average kid who "doesn't know what to write". Writing assignments typically caused meltdowns, depression, anger and were a total failure. Nothing worked. This year we are using a combination of IEW (Ancient History Based Writing that goes along pretty well with our SotW 1 history) and doing Writing With Ease. At first he was very reluctant but I feel that both approaches have really taught both him and me alot. IEW gives a very specific framework and steps that are doable, though he does struggle and still needs alot of "handholding". WWE is even better in that it totally divorces the act of creating words and sentences from the physical act of writing. We do WWE every week and use the IEW every two or three weeks. The IEW takes alot more time because in the end you do alot more original work.

Having me be his "secretary" ala WWE narrations has freed my ds from his fear of writing and allows him to think ahead and quickly. I've learned to use this tool in many of his classes, though not every class every day. For much of his work I have to sit side by side and serve as a personal tutor and secretary but I have no doubt that he is learning a tremendous amount. As the lessons progress and we get to our end of week tests he is suddenly able to do the writing himself because the stress seems to be gone (barring the *bad* days). On bad days I've learned that if I do the writing and just have him read along and let him tell me what to write down we are able to get through the day and just get to relaxation/play time. Also just being close, hugging on him, rubbing his back while we do school in this way really brings out the best in him.

He's the oldest of three boys, my middle son is dyslexic and ADHD (very hyper) plus I have a developmentally delayed four year old - so most days school is time consuming and draining for me. I consider it to be my primary job (with shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and every thing else coming behind!) but already I am amazed to look at how far we have come in eliminating so much of the bad attitude, meltdowns, tantrums and unwillingness to try.

We did a HWOT cursive course starting last summer and finishing just before the holidays. Now I have him do cursive copywork several days a week in addition to whatever printing he does on worksheets and note taking/summaries for writing and history. I have started a keyboarding program for him but I feel he needs to continue working on the handwriting for his personal confidence, ability to note take in college (can't always assume that we will have a laptop he could use) and as a general life skill. Though my kids hate coloring and drawing I make sure they do some of that a couple of times a week through history coloring pages, mapwork (coloring and labelling) and occasionally sneak in an art lesson.

I would say to the mom of younger Aspies that it can get better. We all have some unique co-issues to deal with but I am confident that homeschooling has been a great boon to my Aspie and that he is learning, growing and doing better all the time - even if it is two steps forward and one step back. :001_unsure:

[mama2cntrykids]

Hee hee! My mother used to say, "I've never had a day yet that I didn't live through," and, "It will be good experience, even if it's not a good experience." Moms are great. I wonder what my kids will remember me saying. Probably, "I didn't say you had to like it, I said you had to do it." (Or the meal time version in which I said they had to eat it.)

I totally agree that you never know what you're going to wake up to with an Aspie. And you have to just learn to kind of roll with the punches and pick your battles. There WILL be bad days. There will also be good ones.

HWT has definitely been a help around here. Pencil grips, not so much. They tried those when he was in public school, and he has some...let's say "problematic emotional associations" with pencil grips. And other things. School was not a pleasant place for him, even though the staff was really great and tried really hard to make it work. Stickers and candy no longer carry the punch they once did, and playdoh still makes him hyperventilate (tactile sensory issues--playdoh leaves a residue; you should see the horrified look he gets on his face when his sister plays with it) but we did get through a lot of school work in the early years by handing out M&M's, chocolate chips, pieces of yummy dry cereal, and other treats one at a time as he finished each problem or word. It still amazes me that for the last year and a half or so I've been able to say, "Go do your math," and he does--without me sitting next to his elbow coaxing and encouraging and doing half the writing. He'll ask for help still, but only when he legitimately needs it. Sometimes I get teary-eyed just watching him work. And where I used to know every day when I woke up that it was going to be a bad day, and the question wasn't "good day or bad day" it was "how bad will it be today", nowadays the bad days actually catch me by surprise because they have gotten so few and far between. A couple weeks ago I woke up to scrambled eggs and toast, which he had made for the whole family. He's really an astoundingly strong person to be able to work through some of the things he has to the degree he has already at his young age. I joke about selling him to the gypsies, but really I would not trade him, or the experience of being his mother, for anything. Which is not to say it isn't still hard, just to say I find him amazing TOO.

Writing is the last great hold-out, academically (let's not go into social issues just now...lol). When we started this homeschool journey, just the suggestion that he pick up a pencil (other than to use as a weapon) would bring on an all-out full-blown out of control fight or flight melt-down. Nowadays, he writes all of his math himself, true/false and multiple choice questions, some fill in the blank kinds of things, and short dictations or copywork. He still gets that panic-stricken glint in his eye when I ask him to write anything original, but will sometimes hang in there long enough to give me a few very short, choppy sentences if I've been specific enough in what I'm asking for. Some days, he still flees the room briefly, though, to get a grip on himself again. But even that only lasts a few minutes, whereas it used to throw everything for at least the rest of that day. So, babysteps, y'know? He's really come a long way. I get impatient sometimes wanting him to write at a grade-appropriate level, and have to make myself compare his work to where he's coming from instead of comparing it to "other kids his age". KWIM?

Of course, puberty is beginning to set in now, so who knows what kind of ride we'll be on for the next few years. One thing's for sure, life with an Aspie is never boring. :D
Yes, the writing stuggle continues...now into math. He does CLE Math and they usually assign 3 pg/day. I have been having him do two writing (all he has to write is the answer) and one orally. Well, we're now hitting walls with writing in math. He just doesn't want to do it! BUT, when he does the oral work, he can do it pretty quickly. There will come a time with math however, that orally just won't cut it (borrowing sub/re-grouping add. etc). I'm praying during that time that the writing will get easier. Thank you once again for your insight, encouragement and kind words!

My 11 year old Aspie reminds me alot of what I've read on this thread. He greatly struggles with those fine motor and gross motor/balance/spatial issues. He also has always struggled with sleep (since he was newborn), generalized anxiety (especially social) and the whole myriad of common problems.

This year I have been using something similar to the workbox approach. I type up a weekly calendar of assignments and include copies of all needed worksheets in order behind the weekly calendar and keep them in one binder. We check off each box as we go. I give him some flexibility in chosing when to do certain subjects (except the ones that I co-teach to his younger brother). I continue to learn when to back off and let him go swing outside, jump on his mini-trampoline or take the dog for a walk versus when to push - get out the timer and challenge him to complete a section before the alarm goes off.

Writing has always been a huge issue for him - more than your average kid who "doesn't know what to write". Writing assignments typically caused meltdowns, depression, anger and were a total failure. Nothing worked. This year we are using a combination of IEW (Ancient History Based Writing that goes along pretty well with our SotW 1 history) and doing Writing With Ease. At first he was very reluctant but I feel that both approaches have really taught both him and me alot. IEW gives a very specific framework and steps that are doable, though he does struggle and still needs alot of "handholding". WWE is even better in that it totally divorces the act of creating words and sentences from the physical act of writing. We do WWE every week and use the IEW every two or three weeks. The IEW takes alot more time because in the end you do alot more original work.

Having me be his "secretary" ala WWE narrations has freed my ds from his fear of writing and allows him to think ahead and quickly. I've learned to use this tool in many of his classes, though not every class every day. For much of his work I have to sit side by side and serve as a personal tutor and secretary but I have no doubt that he is learning a tremendous amount. As the lessons progress and we get to our end of week tests he is suddenly able to do the writing himself because the stress seems to be gone (barring the *bad* days). On bad days I've learned that if I do the writing and just have him read along and let him tell me what to write down we are able to get through the day and just get to relaxation/play time. Also just being close, hugging on him, rubbing his back while we do school in this way really brings out the best in him.

He's the oldest of three boys, my middle son is dyslexic and ADHD (very hyper) plus I have a developmentally delayed four year old - so most days school is time consuming and draining for me. I consider it to be my primary job (with shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and every thing else coming behind!) but already I am amazed to look at how far we have come in eliminating so much of the bad attitude, meltdowns, tantrums and unwillingness to try.

We did a HWOT cursive course starting last summer and finishing just before the holidays. Now I have him do cursive copywork several days a week in addition to whatever printing he does on worksheets and note taking/summaries for writing and history. I have started a keyboarding program for him but I feel he needs to continue working on the handwriting for his personal confidence, ability to note take in college (can't always assume that we will have a laptop he could use) and as a general life skill. Though my kids hate coloring and drawing I make sure they do some of that a couple of times a week through history coloring pages, mapwork (coloring and labelling) and occasionally sneak in an art lesson.

I would say to the mom of younger Aspies that it can get better. We all have some unique co-issues to deal with but I am confident that homeschooling has been a great boon to my Aspie and that he is learning, growing and doing better all the time - even if it is two steps forward and one step back. :001_unsure:
Thank you for sharing your story and what you do. It's so interesting that many Aspie's stuggle with writing. There isn't much to do about it but just keep trying and rearranging things that work/don't work.

Today, once again, he did the copying of letters, but wanted nothing to do with writing words. I think I've learned not even to "try" with writing words anymore, lol!

[MamaSheep]

Yes, the writing stuggle continues...now into math. He does CLE Math and they usually assign 3 pg/day. I have been having him do two writing (all he has to write is the answer) and one orally. Well, we're now hitting walls with writing in math. He just doesn't want to do it! BUT, when he does the oral work, he can do it pretty quickly. There will come a time with math however, that orally just won't cut it (borrowing sub/re-grouping add. etc). I'm praying during that time that the writing will get easier. Thank you once again for your insight, encouragement and kind words!

Writing in math was extremely problematic for ds up until about the beginning of last year (that would be 6th grade). When we started homeschooling I put him back a couple of grade levels in math and tried Singapore. I thought the easier work might give him confidence and be easy enough for him that it wouldn't tax him so much to do both the math and the writing. It...didn't go over well. There were enough other issues at that point that I decided to let that battle go, and work on some other things for a while, and I just did the writing for him through fourth grade and the first half of fifth grade. Sometimes I'd coax him into doing a number here or there, in the hopes that he'd grow less anxious about it and start trying a little more on his own. Halfway through fifth grade he saw me playing with the samples on the Teaching Textbooks web site and said, "THAT's what I want!" I told him if he could test into the 6th grade book I'd get it for him (that was the lowest level available at the time, and he was working at a lower grade level than that in Singapore). He tested in just fine (he really has a mathematical mind in many ways, but he had some monumental hang-ups about math left over from public school and it was hard to get him even to try). At that point he did a lot of it just in his head and typed the answers in on the computer. After a while he hit the point where he couldn't do it entirely in his head (he can regroup in his head just fine it seems), but had a fit if I tried to get him to write out the problems on paper. At about that point I discovered that writing on a marker board brought on less hysterics, so I started having him have a small marker and marker board by the computer so he could just jot down the parts he couldn't do in his head. That worked out ok for us through sixth grade. At the beginning of this year (seventh grade) I knew that his writing had improved tremendously, and one of my goals for this year is to push him on writing as much as I can without making him shut down, so I told him he could continue doing his work with the marker board and computer except for quizzes (which I thought was within his current capacity), but that I would require him to do the quizzes in pencil in the book and show his work so that if he got a problem wrong I would be able to see where he made the mistake--I can't see mistakes in his head or on an erased marker board. He griped a lot but agreed that this was logical (logic is VERY important to him). A couple of months in, he had a computer game running on the computer and didn't want to shut it off in order to bring up the math program, so he asked if he could do that lesson in his book. I tried very hard not to faint. After that I gave him the option and he started choosing the book over the computer more and more often. Now he does all his math in the book. I suppose the next transition there will be from writing in the book, to writing on a separate sheet of paper. If we use TT for dd we will have to get a new book, but we could use the same disks, and it sure is cool to have him doing his math independently with a pencil. It gives me hope. And hope is a good thing to have when it comes to Aspies.

Now, ADHD dd, on the other hand, has also been struggling with math. This is her first year at home with us (the schools here are decent, and I had my hands so full with ds that we decided she was better off there, at least for a while), and part of her problem is that she is so highly distractible that she didn't learn much of anything in K and 1st grade other than that she "can't learn stuff", and that it is more fun to make people laugh than to try to do all that school work anyway. :( So we're working hard on reading, writing and basic math this year. HWT has been wonderful for her as well (I'm not sure they taught them HOW to make their letters and numbers down at the school, it kind of seems like they just showed them what they look like and each child made up their own series of strokes--but maybe dd was just not paying attention...). Math has been...quirky. I just recently purchased Math U See to use with her, and it has been wonderful. I think she finally "gets" place values, for one thing, and that makes me much more hopeful about getting her doing additions and subtractions that require regrouping. It's all still so new for us that I hesitate to give a review or recommendation, but I will say that I have been wondering to myself what might have been different with ds had I used MUS instead of Singapore when we first started out. It's much more concrete and visual, and requires less writing. He has played around with us a bit, and has told me that he thinks he'd like to switch to MUS. I told him we'd talk about it after he finishes the TT book he's working through now. I dunno. But it might be worth looking at to see if it would help your child learn the concepts of math while not being overwhelmed with writing.

... I think I've learned not even to "try" with writing words anymore, lol!

I just had to comment on this bit too. This is so wise of you, IMO. Sometimes knowing what to push and how hard, and at the same time what to set aside for a time, is the most important skill in getting my Aspie to learn, and to learn to enjoy learning. If I push him over the edge, then NO learning takes place in any subject for as long as it takes for him to recover his balance. If I push him up TO the edge, and then back off and do something he likes, then progress happens (slowly, but that's better than not at all by a long shot), and it doesn't interfere with learning in other areas, or with our relationship. It took me a while to find the right balance there, but it really is true that sometimes knowing what NOT to "try" is the fastest path to progress.

[mama2cntrykids]

Writing in math was extremely problematic for ds up until about the beginning of last year (that would be 6th grade). When we started homeschooling I put him back a couple of grade levels in math and tried Singapore. I thought the easier work might give him confidence and be easy enough for him that it wouldn't tax him so much to do both the math and the writing. It...didn't go over well. There were enough other issues at that point that I decided to let that battle go, and work on some other things for a while, and I just did the writing for him through fourth grade and the first half of fifth grade. Sometimes I'd coax him into doing a number here or there, in the hopes that he'd grow less anxious about it and start trying a little more on his own. Halfway through fifth grade he saw me playing with the samples on the Teaching Textbooks web site and said, "THAT's what I want!" I told him if he could test into the 6th grade book I'd get it for him (that was the lowest level available at the time, and he was working at a lower grade level than that in Singapore). He tested in just fine (he really has a mathematical mind in many ways, but he had some monumental hang-ups about math left over from public school and it was hard to get him even to try). At that point he did a lot of it just in his head and typed the answers in on the computer. After a while he hit the point where he couldn't do it entirely in his head (he can regroup in his head just fine it seems), but had a fit if I tried to get him to write out the problems on paper. At about that point I discovered that writing on a marker board brought on less hysterics, so I started having him have a small marker and marker board by the computer so he could just jot down the parts he couldn't do in his head. That worked out ok for us through sixth grade. At the beginning of this year (seventh grade) I knew that his writing had improved tremendously, and one of my goals for this year is to push him on writing as much as I can without making him shut down, so I told him he could continue doing his work with the marker board and computer except for quizzes (which I thought was within his current capacity), but that I would require him to do the quizzes in pencil in the book and show his work so that if he got a problem wrong I would be able to see where he made the mistake--I can't see mistakes in his head or on an erased marker board. He griped a lot but agreed that this was logical (logic is VERY important to him). A couple of months in, he had a computer game running on the computer and didn't want to shut it off in order to bring up the math program, so he asked if he could do that lesson in his book. I tried very hard not to faint. After that I gave him the option and he started choosing the book over the computer more and more often. Now he does all his math in the book. I suppose the next transition there will be from writing in the book, to writing on a separate sheet of paper. If we use TT for dd we will have to get a new book, but we could use the same disks, and it sure is cool to have him doing his math independently with a pencil. It gives me hope. And hope is a good thing to have when it comes to Aspies.

Now, ADHD dd, on the other hand, has also been struggling with math. This is her first year at home with us (the schools here are decent, and I had my hands so full with ds that we decided she was better off there, at least for a while), and part of her problem is that she is so highly distractible that she didn't learn much of anything in K and 1st grade other than that she "can't learn stuff", and that it is more fun to make people laugh than to try to do all that school work anyway. :( So we're working hard on reading, writing and basic math this year. HWT has been wonderful for her as well (I'm not sure they taught them HOW to make their letters and numbers down at the school, it kind of seems like they just showed them what they look like and each child made up their own series of strokes--but maybe dd was just not paying attention...). Math has been...quirky. I just recently purchased Math U See to use with her, and it has been wonderful. I think she finally "gets" place values, for one thing, and that makes me much more hopeful about getting her doing additions and subtractions that require regrouping. It's all still so new for us that I hesitate to give a review or recommendation, but I will say that I have been wondering to myself what might have been different with ds had I used MUS instead of Singapore when we first started out. It's much more concrete and visual, and requires less writing. He has played around with us a bit, and has told me that he thinks he'd like to switch to MUS. I told him we'd talk about it after he finishes the TT book he's working through now. I dunno. But it might be worth looking at to see if it would help your child learn the concepts of math while not being overwhelmed with writing.



I just had to comment on this bit too. This is so wise of you, IMO. Sometimes knowing what to push and how hard, and at the same time what to set aside for a time, is the most important skill in getting my Aspie to learn, and to learn to enjoy learning. If I push him over the edge, then NO learning takes place in any subject for as long as it takes for him to recover his balance. If I push him up TO the edge, and then back off and do something he likes, then progress happens (slowly, but that's better than not at all by a long shot), and it doesn't interfere with learning in other areas, or with our relationship. It took me a while to find the right balance there, but it really is true that sometimes knowing what NOT to "try" is the fastest path to progress.

Wow Amy. It's so nice to "hear" how progress can be made. I am glad to see that there can be light at the end of the tunnel (or at least toward the middle, lol!).

The last two days have been really quite good. He's even been writing a few words! Actually, he wrote a full sentence today and yesterday:001_huh:. Kind of confusing as to "why" now and not before, but hey, I'll take it! Maybe it was the fact that I had not pushed the issue for a few days. When I asked him, he said the words were easier. I don't know! Just glad we've been having a nice couple of days.

Thanks so much!

[MamaSheep]

Wow Amy. It's so nice to "hear" how progress can be made. I am glad to see that there can be light at the end of the tunnel (or at least toward the middle, lol!).

The last two days have been really quite good. He's even been writing a few words! Actually, he wrote a full sentence today and yesterday:001_huh:. Kind of confusing as to "why" now and not before, but hey, I'll take it! Maybe it was the fact that I had not pushed the issue for a few days. When I asked him, he said the words were easier. I don't know! Just glad we've been having a nice couple of days.

Thanks so much!

Thanks for this. I was feeling like I was being the queen of TMI in here. I think I tend to run on about this stuff because a couple of years ago I was feeling pretty hopeless and it really helped to hear from some moms who were a little farther down the road and had leapt some of the same crevasses.

I'm so glad to hear that you had some good days! I hear you on the confusing bit. Why now and not yesterday (or last month), or why yesterday (or last week) but not today are questions I ask a lot. In a lot of cases I've decided that the "why" of it is "because he's an Aspie". Oh sure, it might be a finger cramp or slight indigestion, or the smell of what we had for lunch, or ten minutes more or less sleep than he needed that's the immediate "cause" (and I will probably never know), but whatever it is, his nervous system can't handle that AND this today and I might as well accept it, do the best we can, and move on while we're still friends because fighting over it does not generally produce the results I am after. (Not that I don't still occasionally find myself shouting, "FOR THE LOVE OF MERCY, JUST WRITE THE DANG WORD!" on occasion (that boy can tweak my absolute last shred of nerves without even realizing he's near the maternal precipice), but I am getting better about it. And the calmer I am, the calmer he is, and the better everything works out for all of us. Zen, baby. I really do think that a huge part of the progress around here has been lowering the anxiety levels and backing off with the pressure. Pressure makes him freeze up. Calm makes him flow--often more quickly and with better retention that his peers (except with writing, of course....sigh). Interesting creatures, Aspies.

[chris's girl]

Our Aspie hates to write. For him it's both a perfectionist problem (he can't leave something undone!), and a physical problem (which then prompts the perfectionism). Our son is 8 and we do not do alot of writing. I will probably wait a few more years. I avoid workbooks and programs that have him writing full sentences as answers. When we do encounter exercises that need a written answer, I have him sit with me and narrate what he wants to say and write it for him, making him watch me. I think between the ages of 10 and 12 I will start requiring him to write for himself. I've also considered a typing program so he can really get his thoughts out there without having to overcome the writing handicap. However, everyone needs to know how to write, so it does have to be taught and learned, but not everyone has to be a master at it.