FLL 3 -vs- Rod and Staff English 3

[Mandy]

I am using FFL 1-2 right now and really like the format. My daughter has learned and retained a great deal, and I would love to move on to FLL 3. Here is the rub. I already have access to a "free" Rod and Staff English 3 for next year.

Here is my question for those who have used both programs at this level. How do the two programs compare in ease of use, student retention, parent/student enjoyment. I do plan on getting Writing With Ease, so I will not be using the writing component of R & S.

Thanks for any insight you might have,
Mandy

[Sue G in PA]

I have both FLL3 AND R&S 3. Last night, I sat down and did a page-by-page comparison. R&S *seemed* to be a bit more rigorous and challenging. For example...where FLL3 covered the types of plurals in 3-4 lessons (if I remember correctly), R&S covered ALL plurals (even irregulars) in only one lesson. R&S does not have any copywork/dictation or narration...but if you are using WWE you won't need it anyway. FLL3 uses a workbook (although I've been told you don't *need* it) while R&S is a text that could be done orally or on paper. They seem to cover the same topics, including diagramming, just in a different order. R&S starts with dictionary work...FLL3 doesn't cover it until later in the text.

Basically, both are good curriculums. Personally, I don't like the "scriptedness" of FLL3 but I used FLL 1/2 and just used my own words. I don't like how FLL3 has you have your child repeat things back to you so many times (ala FLL 1/2). My ds rolled his eyes every time FLL 1/2 did that. We skipped it. He felt like a parrot/robot (his words). I wish I could make up your mind for you (I wish I could make up mine! :D). We will *probably* go with FLL3 for a while starting in a few weeks to give it a "test run". It seems like a gentler approach and since my ds has had little formal grammar up until know, it will probably work for him.

If cost is an issue for you...go w/ the FREE R&S 3. I purchased R&S3 used and then got my hands on a library copy of FLL3...:glare: I must stop doing that! We are also using WT1 and WWE for the copywork/narrations/dictations, etc. and that's another factor. R&S would definitely be overkill for ds8 even w/out the writing exercises (which are minimal in R&S 3, btw).

I hope that helps a bit and I hope you get some responses from those who have used both! Remember, I haven't btdt yet...

[prairiegirl]

I have used both. I was using R&S but my dd just wasn't getting it. They seemed to go too fast through all of the concepts. My dd needed more repetition. I also didn't like the 'dryness' of R&S. I am not a workbook/textbook kind of girl so the layout of R&S did not impress me.

FLL does not appear to be as rigorous as R&S, but I like what is presented. I am happy with what they do teach. Diagramming is taught straight off in FLL. I also like that there is variety in each lesson. There is narration (which we do not use,) memorization, dictation and grammar. Each lesson has review. There is not as much written work/practise in FLL as there is in R&S. I have started taking a passage from our reading and use that for what we are learning in FLL. For ex, we have been learning about plurals, pronouns and adjectives in FLL. We find all of those parts of speech throughout the reading passage. As far as repetition goes, my dd needs that so it isn't a problem. She can't remember the parts of speech without it being drilled into her every day.

My dd dreaded doing grammar with R&S but yesterday she said she really liked grammar now. FLL is more relaxed than R&S. I think that is what we like about it.


Julia
mom of 3 (8,7,5)

[profmom]

Here's my comparison:

FLL3 -- yes, scripts are there, but I've always skimmed the beginning and then conducted the lesson in my own words. FLL3 is much more gentle in its approach than R & S. There is much, much less practice for the dc, even if it covers the same concepts. (I haven't compared.) You cover a concept, practice memorizing (or reviewing) the definition of the current grammatical term, and the dc only does a little bit of work applying it. The diagram lines are provided in the workbook, so the child just plugs words onto them. The sentences are short and easy and so there's not much of a challenge there. These diagrams are often "no-brainers" because there's either an adjective or an adverb and the lines are provided -- no thought is needed about which the word is when you just write the extra word on the extra blank.

We've enjoyed the poetry, and I like having my dc learn the definitions. I'm wondering if this has been too gentle an approach, or, at least, one that doesn't provide enough practice for my ds. I chose it because I trust Jesse Wise (still do) and knew my ds wouldn't want to do all the handwriting in R & S.

R & S -- I used this with dd when she was in 3rd and was happy with it! I had her do it just as written, which meant she had about a page and a half of writing a day (going from memory). I think she learned grammar & diagramming well and that all that handwriting helped her cement her cursive handwriting and get used to producing a greater volume of handwriting in general. She loved it in 3rd, but at the beginning of 4th, she felt bogged down by it and asked to switch to something else. Because we were also adding CW, I went ahead and bought GWG, which she used last year (4th) and this year.

Dd scored very high on a LA pretest I gave her (standardized test prep. book). She also has Latin (finishing LCII now) and Greek (EG1 now), along with CW-Homer A & Beg. Poetry this year, so I can't say for sure how much her score is due to any one program. Ds (in FLL3) didn't score as high and I'm focusing on the areas where he is weak as our LA program for the rest of the year.

I certainly don't mean to speak ill of FLL3 -- I like most of it, but I prefer more practice using the new concepts by 3rd grade. I think R & S is more rigorous.

HTH!

[Mandy]

I will need to make a decision soon, and this information will help me in the process.

Mandy

[CookieMonster]

Thank you, all three of you, for taking the time to post your reviews. I have had the very same question rolling around in my mind and it was wonderful to read your reviews. Very helpful.
:grouphug: