Rhetoric Stage: Astronomy?

[rwjx2khsmj]

I've just waded into a previously unread portion of TWTM, Part 3 The Rhetoric Stage. :ack2:

My dd will be in 9th grade next year. We'll be starting earth science/astronomy with the youngers. I'd like to keep all the dc "together" as much as possible, within reason. TWTM recommends Astronomy for the corresponding course in high school. Reading the astronomy recommendation kind of made me wonder. As I'm searching I'm not finding anyone that's doing Astronomy as a stand alone course in high school. That's making me really wonder.

Can someone help me think this one through? Why the recommendation for astronomy? Is physical science a better choice? Should I be thinking in a different direction altogether?

[Colleen in NS]

We'll be starting earth science/astronomy with the youngers.

TWTM recommends Astronomy for the corresponding course in high school.

Why the recommendation for astronomy?

I'll be interested to hear any replies, too, because I was recently wondering something similar - why it was *just* astronomy recommended in WTM high school, instead of earth/astronomy, as in previous years.

[Happyhomemama]

I've seen this - http://www.christianlibertypress.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CLP69595&cat=40

and this - http://www.christianbook.com/lifepac-select-astronomy/9781580957946/pd/76768?event=AFF&p=1137121&

Never used them or know anything about them.

[Jane in NC]

A few ideas:

Jean in Wisc has recommended some things. Perhaps you could search her posts.

Also...I think Nan in Mass is off the boards for a few days, but, after she returns, someone should resuscitate this thread if it is buried. I believe that she is considering doing some astronomy with her youngest son. Perhaps she can provide some assistance.

Jane

[Chris in VA]

We did astronomy, but only as a half credit class, and yes, we did combine it with a sort of earth science--it was physical geography.

I used Astronomy Today as our text. I actually have WTM-recommended Astronomy Self Teaching Guide right in front of me--we didn't like it.

[rwjx2khsmj]

A few ideas:

Jean in Wisc has recommended some things. Perhaps you could search her posts.

Also...I think Nan in Mass is off the boards for a few days, but, after she returns, someone should resuscitate this thread if it is buried. I believe that she is considering doing some astronomy with her youngest son. Perhaps she can provide some assistance.

Jane

Thanks! Those were two names that I found several times in my search for Astronomy info last night. Not so much for astronomy but for info concerning high school home school in general.

[rwjx2khsmj]

We did astronomy, but only as a half credit class, and yes, we did combine it with a sort of earth science--it was physical geography.

I used Astronomy Today as our text. I actually have WTM-recommended Astronomy Self Teaching Guide right in front of me--we didn't like it.

What didn't you like about it? What did you like about the program that you chose instead?

[rwjx2khsmj]

I've seen this - http://www.christianlibertypress.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CLP69595&cat=40

and this - http://www.christianbook.com/lifepac-select-astronomy/9781580957946/pd/76768?event=AFF&p=1137121&

Never used them or know anything about them.

Thank you! I've book marked them for further review.

I was really wondering more about the recommendation for astronomy rather than the more common physical science/biology/chemistry/physics route. Can anyone shed some light?

[atozmom]

I am looking into using Signs and Seasons (http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=221102&item_code=WW&netp_id=487945&event=ESRCN&view=details) for dd in high school.

[Myra]

I am trying to use Signs & Seasons but am finding it very difficult to implement. FIrst, the text is overly religious-oriented ...in my humble opinion. The field lab book has many excellent activities but they are very hard to coordinate. My spouse ended up making a excel document listing the activity and how many days/nights/week it extended over so I could make some sort of lesson plans. I do like the activities but I find they are hard to implement....you have to be working on several at a time like daily moon rise/set for a month, weekly high noon shadows 1x week for 12 weeks, etc.

I do like the Teaching Company's Astronomy DVDs that we check out from the Library.

We were very lucky that my boys both got accepted as interns at the local Observatory so they meet weekly with a mentor to "star hop" and to use a telescope. I suggest you look for a local amataur astronomy club - they love teaching kids at their night-time star parties.

I am looking for a new text to finish the year with....but have no ideas yet!

Myra

[Chris in VA]

What didn't you like about it? What did you like about the program that you chose instead?

I didn't like ST's format. There wasn't any color--none of the stunning pictures you might expect in an astronomy text. Every few paragraphs, there was a couple of comprehension questions, with the answers right there under the questions. I would've had to white them all out or something.

It just wasn't very exciting or appealing.

Astronomy Today was broken up into two texts (but could be bought as one), both having some common chapters--one text was more about the Solar System, and one was more about stars and such. It had lots of comprehension and application questions, and there were great explanations of the math--but you could use it as a basically non-math astronomy text, too--it had the math-y sections as optional. Very clear, easy to schedule, and I believe they had on-line helps, as well.

I would definitely find an observatory if you are going to do Astronomy. Even if you could just go to the parks where they occasionally have folks bring their telescopes and help people gaze at the stars--hands-on really does bring this subject to life. Incorporate myths, too--

[Jean in Wisc]

TWTM recommends Astronomy for the corresponding course in high school. Reading the astronomy recommendation kind of made me wonder. As I'm searching I'm not finding anyone that's doing Astronomy as a stand alone course in high school. That's making me really wonder.

Can someone help me think this one through? Why the recommendation for astronomy? Is physical science a better choice? Should I be thinking in a different direction altogether?

Even though I love astronomy, my dc do physical science, biololgy, chemistry, and physics for their 4 years of high school science. I like that physical science is meant to be a short course in physics and chemistry and helps prepare them for the more difficult texts in those subjects done later in their high school years. All of the physical science textbooks I've looked at include earth science and astronomy (although they don't do much for astronomy, really). If I had a child who was well-grounded in science and really didn't need the short course, skipping physical science might be a good choice. The senior year, the child could choose to do an advanced class in one of those or choose something in astronomy, marine science or any other area of interest.

My interest in high school science is related to my children getting ready for college. Astronomy is my love and hobby, but it is not the 4 credits of English, 3 credits of science, 3 credits of social science/history etc., etc. that most colleges are requiring. This is where my philosophy begins to differ from TWTM's suggestions. I suppose I'm being pragmatic rather than ideal.

My dc have all had a good hands-on foundation in astronomy in their elementary years. If they did not, perhaps my view on this would differ. Astronomy is something that was studied early in history, and if you are keeping your children together in their studies, it would be a wonderful chance for them to go out and see the night sky and learn their way around it. I like the practical side of Signs and Seasons--it is something that explains the world we live in rather than the data on the planets and advanced science study. The introduction is especially Christian, but as it goes into the chapters, it is a great deal just a science textbook. However, if someone does not like quotes from scripture and early Christians, or does not like hearing that the author sees God in the workings of the universe, this book is not for them. I do not know of any secular astronomy book that is teaching classical astronomy (classical here means that a person could learn this information without a telescope or advanced scientific instruments). Classical astronomy is a body of knowledge that has been lost by our culture-- I see so many people who come through our astronomy observatory with NO PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER about their place in the universe and how our planet fits into it, so I would hate to steer you or anyone else away from this subject. If you are willing to do it, go for it. It could turn into a passion or a career--or it could mean that when you get stuck in the middle of nowhere, you could step outside the car and find which way is north by glancing up at the sky. :) You could find yourself looking for old friends rising in the east each season or adding solstices and equinoxes, perihelions and eclipses to your calendars. Perhaps you'd enjoy lighting a candle through the end-of-the-year holidays to add light to the dark days of winter as a way to participate in the cycles of our earth. Or maybe all that you will bring away from the study of astronomy is the ability to better understand a PBS radio program you happen to hear in the car, or the ability to understand what a news article is saying, or catch something in Star Trek that you would never have put together before. Then again, your mom might give you a cereal box that tells about "Stories Written in the Sky", and you will see it say, "Did you know the naked eye can see a galaxy that's 2.5 light years away?" and you will blanch and be heard saying, "Since the closest STAR outside our solar system is over 4 light years away, I'd say this a a major typo. I'm guessing they are referring to the Andromeda Galaxy that is 2.5 MILLION light years away!!"

The astronomy book TWTM recommends is not one of the dozens of books on my shelf. I inter-library loaned it and sent it right back. It is bare facts without any way to fall in love with the night sky imo.

Well...what else can I offer you? Instead of doing a textbook, you could collect a number of books from a book store and study them. You could do Astronomy Today or Signs and Seasons. You could join an astronomy club and see what they are doing. You could come out to my farm and help me find my way around the night sky with my 2 telescopes...

:) HTH.
Jean

[rwjx2khsmj]

Even though I love astronomy, my dc do physical science, biololgy, chemistry, and physics for their 4 years of high school science. I like that physical science is meant to be a short course in physics and chemistry and helps prepare them for the more difficult texts in those subjects done later in their high school years. All of the physical science textbooks I've looked at include earth science and astronomy (although they don't do much for astronomy, really). If I had a child who was well-grounded in science and really didn't need the short course, skipping physical science might be a good choice.

I really am not sure my daughter is "well grounded" in anything, educationally. We are working on that. I see the addition of physical science as being a help to her in preparing for chemistry and physics. Any recommendations for a text?

My interest in high school science is related to my children getting ready for college. Astronomy is my love and hobby, but it is not the 4 credits of English, 3 credits of science, 3 credits of social science/history etc., etc. that most colleges are requiring. This is where my philosophy begins to differ from TWTM's suggestions. I suppose I'm being pragmatic rather than ideal.

My feelings exactly. I love the idea of astronomy but I'm not sure dd will enjoy it for 36 weeks and I'm not sure she has enough science to be able to progress easily without more building in the basics.

My dc have all had a good hands-on foundation in astronomy in their elementary years. If they did not, perhaps my view on this would differ. Astronomy is something that was studied early in history, and if you are keeping your children together in their studies, it would be a wonderful chance for them to go out and see the night sky and learn their way around it.
And if we are doing 18 weeks of astronomy with the youngers, I can see this happening for all of us together. Again, my pragmatic side says that in order to prepare her, astronomy might not be the best choice.

so I would hate to steer you or anyone else away from this subject. If you are willing to do it, go for it. It could turn into a passion or a career--or it could mean that when you get stuck in the middle of nowhere, you could step outside the car and find which way is north by glancing up at the sky. :) You could find yourself looking for old friends rising in the east each season or adding solstices and equinoxes, perihelions and eclipses to your calendars. Perhaps you'd enjoy lighting a candle through the end-of-the-year holidays to add light to the dark days of winter as a way to participate in the cycles of our earth.

Thank you for this. What you've said is inspiring and beautifully written. It validates my desire to do this as a family and my gut feeling that my dd needs more than this in preparation for future science classes.

My husband is currently in Brazil and one of the things that he's found most disorienting about being there is how the stars are "all wrong". And, for the last 10 years, we've held our annual holiday party on the winter solstice because we want to share the longest night with people we love.

You could come out to my farm and help me find my way around the night sky with my 2 telescopes...

This sounds lovely!

Thanks so much for the insight. I think I'll be searching for a family friendly course in astronomy and physical science for dd13.

[Jean in Wisc]

Any recommendations for a text?

My husband is currently in Brazil and one of the things that he's found most disorienting about being there is how the stars are "all wrong". And, for the last 10 years, we've held our annual holiday party on the winter solstice because we want to share the longest night with people we love. .

We use Apologia. I like them for the student who is not science brilliant (like my kids :D).

I'd love to visit the southern hemisphere and see the night sky! Maybe someday...

[Colleen in NS]

Thank you, Jean, for all of that wonderful explanation. We just started astronomy for our second half of the year.

[Jean in Wisc]

Thank you, Jean, for all of that wonderful explanation. We just started astronomy for our second half of the year.

Very Velcome :)

[Nan in Mass]

I have aquired, but haven't yet tried using, Turn Left at Orion. It is "A hundred night sky objects to see in a small telescope and how to find them". I also have a book of stories about the constellations from around the world (can't remember the title). We've read some of them already. And I have a book called 365 Starry Nights: An Introduction to Astronomy for Every Night of the Year, for fun. That is very readable. We used The Stargazer's Guide to the Galaxy when the children were small, so they already know some constellations. My son has a telescope and we've used it to look at the moons of Jupiter and craters on the moon, among other things. I think we'd probably combine the hand-on stuff with something else to supply more of the theoretical part. Also, Science News often has articles about what astronomers are doing and finding. If we do this, it will probably be very hand-on, telescope oriented. We plan to visit the local wildlife refuge's astronomy night, where people bring their telescopes and set them up in a field, to start off with.

-Nan

[HeatherInWI]

If you want something with astronomy, I'd agree with those suggesting a standard earth/space science course, especially if your child may be applying to colleges in a few years. A fairly standard high school science course of study is Earth Science in 9th, Biology in 10th, Chemistry in 11th, and then Physics in 12th. Obviously, however, for children who may want a science-related career, a lot more and tougher science is recommended.

[Myra]

We're studying astronomy for our science this year. (My kids will be doing Chemistry, Biology, Astronomy, and Environmental Studies for their high school sciences.) We just finished our first semester doing what I consider as "classical astronomy" using Signs & Seasons (see my earlier post on this thread) textbook and field lab in conjunction with being interns at the local Observatory. Now for the second semester I am moving away from the "classical" approach and have just found a textbook that I really like called Discovering the Universe seventh edition by Neil Comins and William Kaufmann. It is a typical text book being used by a local 4 year state college in its Intro to Astronomy class. Best of all, I got it online used for $18! But what I really like is the free online student support that has animations, quizzes, etc. Here's the link below to the free online stuff:
http://bcs.whfreeman.com/dtu7e/default.asp


Myra

[Janice in NJ]

The company that publishes the awesome home chemistry book that we've been chatting about also offers up an astronomy text:

http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Astronomical-Wonders-Observer/dp/0596526857/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264273260&sr=8-1

The reviews look good. Maybe it's worth looking for at the library?

We live 10 miles from NYC. On a clear night we can see "THE star." One. It's nice and all, but we have no plans to attempt to study astronomy. We watch TC DVD's at night. sigh....

Peace,
Janice

[Carmen_and_Company]

We didn't follow TWTM science sequence or recommendations during Taz's high school years. We did biology, mostly zoology & human anatomy-no microbiology, physics, and AP Physics. Taz took chemistry & astronomy through our state's college dual enrollment option program.

To make scheduling easier for you, I'd find resources so all the children cover the same topics as closely as possible. I'd look for an earth science text, or follow a living books method.

A text that Taz read that may fit the bill for you is Earth Science by Edward Tarbuck. We own the 1999, 9th edition, ISBN 0130815667. The text is an intro college text, but quite readable, per my 8th grade dd, Storm, and covers astronomy, geology, oceanology and meteorology. Amazon.com sells newer editions, some with DVDs, like the 12th edition. http://tinyurl.com/ydlakk9

Round out the study with 1 or 2 living books on the four main topics listed above.