Can "I" teach Jacob's Geometry? (struggling math mom)

[Angela in NC]

I'm ok with not doing as good of a job in other areas, but I really don't want to mess up math. Dd is doing Foerster's Alg. 1 currently and we floundered a bit with probability, but I just bought Math Without Borders and I think that will help.

Next year is geometry. I hope to use Jacob's Geometry, but now I am scared that I won't be able to help dd if she needs it. Is there teaching support and clear detailed solutions?

I hope to go back to Foerster Alg 2 and then to CC for the rest of her math.

Thank you for your guidance.
Angela

[cmpet7]

I also forgot a lot of my math and tried to use Jacob's geometry. While I thought the book was excellent; the answer book was not. I ended up selling it after the first quarter because of inability to teach it. We did try to use Dr. Callahan's DVD with it but it didn't really help because what we really needed was an explanation of how they sometimes arrived at their answers. I don't know anything about Math without Borders. We switched to Teaching Textbooks for Geometry only. While the problems are definately easier in Teaching Textbooks, my son has no difficulty with geometry problems when he studies for the SAT. I wish Jacob's had a better answer book because IMO the book is more thorough than Teaching Textbooks. Hope this helps.

[Cedarmom]

Jacob's geometry does not have detailed solutions. My dh used it with my son, and it worked breat. But my dh is an engineer, so he didn't need solutions. If you want detailed solutions, you may want to try another program.

[Jann in TX]

I'm using Jacob's 3rd edition this year in my online Geometry classes... needless to say next year I will be using a different program for my small group classes.

Jacobs IS a good program--but it is more of a 'discovery type' learning and if your logical thinking process is different from his then you are out of luck!

Sometimes it has been difficult for ME to understand what he is asking at times!

This is one of those programs that either works for you or it does not. It is not adaptable and many of my students are going to need supplements to get through the second semester because they are not understanding the problem sets and they are not getting enough practice with concepts they will find on the SAT tests... I rather spend my teaching time discussing Geometry concepts--not disecting how Harold Jacobs thinks!

Jacobs is also lacking in coordinate Geoemetry (not much there)--something that is VERY popular in Public School Geometry texts--and even the SATs are picking up on it. I love how coordinate Geometry bridges into linear Algebra so those Algebra 1 skills are practiced and reinforced (even expanded).

[transientChris]

I loved using Jacobs Geometry with my oldest since it really helped me learn geometry better and it was his favorite subject. It didn't work with my second. But I am a math type person. I don't know that it would work well with a non-mathy person.

[NJKelli]

Jacobs IS a good program--but it is more of a 'discovery type' learning and if your logical thinking process is different from his then you are out of luck!

Sometimes it has been difficult for ME to understand what he is asking at times!

This is one of those programs that either works for you or it does not. It is not adaptable and many of my students are going to need supplements to get through the second semester because they are not understanding the problem sets and they are not getting enough practice with concepts they will find on the SAT tests... I rather spend my teaching time discussing Geometry concepts--not disecting how Harold Jacobs thinks!

I am so very relieved to read this from Jann. We had to leave Jacobs Geometry in early October for this very reason. Dd just thinks differently and often enough couldn't figure out what he was asking. At times when I would see that her answer was different from that in the answer key, I would have her explain what she thought he was asking, and, in that light, her answer was usually very logical. It became too time-consuming and frustrating to sort it all out. We went with Teaching Textbooks because I think it's probably enough for geometry, and I needed something easy to manage because of a medical problem that came up with another dc. Even though I haven't regretted the move to TT, I have wondered if I gave up on Jacobs too easily. Now reading Jann's comments I feel a lot better. Maybe we got out just in time before it got worse.

I'm sure Jacobs is excellent for those who speak the same language, but perhaps you just have to have a dc try it to see if it's right for them.

BTW, we also loved Foerster's Alg. 1 and dd did very well with it. We did get the Math Without Borders CDs, but she really wasn't satisfied with them and felt they didn't help her very much. I so much want to go back to Foerster's for Alg. 2, but I'm thinking I will need teaching support and don't know what to do if MWB's isn't a good match. :001_smile:

[EKS]

I'm using Jacob's 3rd edition this year in my online Geometry classes... needless to say next year I will be using a different program for my small group classes.

Jacobs IS a good program--but it is more of a 'discovery type' learning and if your logical thinking process is different from his then you are out of luck!

Sometimes it has been difficult for ME to understand what he is asking at times!

This is one of those programs that either works for you or it does not. It is not adaptable and many of my students are going to need supplements to get through the second semester because they are not understanding the problem sets and they are not getting enough practice with concepts they will find on the SAT tests... I rather spend my teaching time discussing Geometry concepts--not disecting how Harold Jacobs thinks!

Jacobs is also lacking in coordinate Geoemetry (not much there)--something that is VERY popular in Public School Geometry texts--and even the SATs are picking up on it. I love how coordinate Geometry bridges into linear Algebra so those Algebra 1 skills are practiced and reinforced (even expanded).

I absolutely agree with everything in this post!

The real world overlay (or whatever you want to call it) in the 3rd edition is INSANE and IMHO completely distracting. The 2nd edition is much better in that it is more straightforward. Even so, we ended up going to TT Geometry, even though I was convinced it was against my principles.

[EKS]

I wish Jacob's had a better answer book because IMO the book is more thorough than Teaching Textbooks.

I agree with you. The Jacobs text is a more thought provoking, rigorous book and the algebra required is at a higher level too.

[Martha in NM]

as others have mentioned the lack of detailed solutions is a serious drawback if you're not particularly mathy or it's been a long time since you've taken a math course. IMO, the Geometry 3rd edition is so visually busy that it would have driven me crazy if we'd tried to use it as our primary text.

[Ruth in Canada]

I'm working with kid #2 on Jacobs 2nd edition and it didn't occur to me that this was a particularly difficult book to use. Kid #1, who will say she doesn't like math, and is taking 2 years to go through Foerster's Pre-calculus, was very happy with Jacobs. I guess it works for us.

[EKS]

I'm working with kid #2 on Jacobs 2nd edition and it didn't occur to me that this was a particularly difficult book to use. Kid #1, who will say she doesn't like math, and is taking 2 years to go through Foerster's Pre-calculus, was very happy with Jacobs. I guess it works for us.

The 2nd edition is much, much easier to use than the 3rd. Jann was referring to the 3rd edition.

[Ruth in Canada]

Thanks! I knew that some people preferred the 2nd for the emphasis on proofs, but I didn't realize that the 2nd was also easier to use.

[Whitneyz]

This makes me want to throw up!!!!! I went out and bought Jacob's 3rd edition and the Dr. Callahan DVD set for my struggling math student!!! She is having a hard time. I am having a hard time teaching it....I don't have the time to learn geometry or the $$$ to go out and buy a new expensive geometry program.

Does anyone have any recommendations???? She's 5-6 months away from taking her SAT.

And would anyone like to buy my Jacobs and Dr. Callahan!!! :)

Thanks,
Whitney

[EKS]

This makes me want to throw up!!!!! I went out and bought Jacob's 3rd edition and the Dr. Callahan DVD set for my struggling math student!!! She is having a hard time. I am having a hard time teaching it....I don't have the time to learn geometry or the $$$ to go out and buy a new expensive geometry program.

Does anyone have any recommendations???? She's 5-6 months away from taking her SAT.

And would anyone like to buy my Jacobs and Dr. Callahan!!! :)

Thanks,
Whitney

When I was in this boat (though my son is generally not a struggling math student, he was with Jacobs' Geometry), I decided on TT. It has been wonderfully straightforward to implement.

[Whitneyz]

I had been using TT with my dd before we went with Jacob's! We've spent 1/2 of this year trying to work through Jacob's. Now she has 6 months to get ready for her SAT. Isn't TT a full year's program?

Thx,

Whitney

[Sue in St Pete]

I'm using Jacob's 3rd edition this year in my online Geometry classes... needless to say next year I will be using a different program for my small group classes.

Jacobs IS a good program--but it is more of a 'discovery type' learning and if your logical thinking process is different from his then you are out of luck!

Sometimes it has been difficult for ME to understand what he is asking at times!

OH NO, Jann! :crying:

I have a degree in math, and Geometry was the only math class I hated. We are doing a 2nd year of Algebra, in part because I'm dreading Geometry. To me, it looks like Jacob's is about the only option. I won't do TT. So, what do you recommend?

[EKS]

It's 110 lessons + 15 tests.

[Amy in TX]

:lurk5:

[Whitneyz]

Why won't you use TT?

Thx,
Whitney

[Sue in St Pete]

Why won't you use TT?
I gather from posts on this board that TT is not rigorous. The merits of TT are sometimes hotly debated, though. Also, I don't want a DVD. I'd like to do the teaching.

[swimmermom3]

This has been an invaluable thread for me, especially Jann's input. My dd is taking a Geometry course online with Keystone National HS using a Glencoe Geometry text. She struggled fiercely with the course until we figured out that the text itself was her greatest frustration: it is overwhelming visually. She now works through the 3rd edition of Jacob's Geometry matched up roughly with the Glencoe text. Now, her mother is no geometry genius and uses LoF to help her explain concepts to her daughter that are confusing in the Jacob's text. We use SAT prep texts and the Khan Academy site to supplement. It's far from a perfect plan for teaching geometry but slowly the pieces are coming together.

I would love a single geometry program that offers excellent help for the home school teacher and am anxiously waiting to hear one be suggested. After all, why should I stop at 3 geometry texts?:tongue_smilie:

To the op: I definitely feel your pain on this one.

[langfam]

:tongue_smilie:We're on chapter 5.3 of the 3rd edition and just today I felt like we need to try something different. Reading this thread is very discouraging. I've been working daily with ds and more often than not I feel like I'm giving him the answers by asking leading questions because he doesn't know what the text is asking for. Often I'm not sure myself and rely on the answer book. I just don't think anything is sticking with him and do worry that he's not getting enough practice. We've already tried TT and he hated the lectures. I hate being in this position.



PS: There is a solutions manual for Jacob's Elementary Algebra for the mom who said there wasn't:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/solutions-manual-for-elementary-a%20lgebra/7555680

[EKS]

I gather from posts on this board that TT is not rigorous. The merits of TT are sometimes hotly debated, though. Also, I don't want a DVD. I'd like to do the teaching.

When I went through this 6 months ago, the consensus seemed to be that TT Geometry was the bright spot in the TT series. It covers exactly the same topics as Jacobs to essentially the same depth. Jacobs 2nd edition generally has more proofs per problem set, but TT always has two and they can be somewhat complicated. While I don't think TT Geometry is an honors couse, by any stretch of the imagination, it is a solid traditional program.

I would not use TT for algebra, however, as I believe that if nothing else, the sequence is grossly mislabeled.

ETA: You can do the teaching with TT, just use the text without the DVD. I did that for a while because my son needed that interaction to understand the concepts at first.

[lizziebeth]

oh, this is a very depressing thread. we've had such good luck with Jacobs Elementary Algebra this year, so i was planning on moving on to Jacobs Geometry next year. looks like i have more research to do.... :glare:

[NJKelli]

Over the last year or so, I have taken the posts questioning the rigor and scope and sequence of TT algebra 1, 2 and pre-calc very seriously and wondered if I would ever be letting my dd down academically by using TT. However, we chose TT Geometry when Jacobs didn't work for us. I also had a family medical situation to deal with and knew there would be times that I wouldn't be as available to help. I have been very thankful to have TT Geometry. I am satisfied with the scope and difficulty level.

I would not consider dd a math whiz, nor does she like it much. At the same time, she has scored at the 99th percentile on math sections of standardized tests (this is before TT) and did well in Foersters Alg. 1, so she must be reasonably competent. She is generally math intuitive and would rather figure things out on her own, but she's fine with the TT lectures (wasn't really with Math Without Borders). Most significantly, she says TT helps her understand math better than she ever did before. I think that means a lot coming from someone like her. And, BTW, she is making her share of mistakes and not getting As on every test like you sometimes here about kids who switch to TT.

Hope this helps someone not get too depressed over geometry choices.:001_smile:

[langfam]

My dd used TT Geometry and loved it. She actually improved her math score on geometry type questions on the SAT after using it (coming from Saxon). She continued with TT Precalculus and did test into Calculus after taking the COMPASS placement test (for college). So I do think TT can work for some kids. I was hoping it would work with ds, but he hates the lectures. I suspect he prefers doing Jacob's because I'm practically giving him the answers. :(


Postscript: Well, we did a lesson of TT today, picking up from where he previously had stopped..... just using the textbook and it went fine. He actually did all the problems himself :) He did say cheekily, " I liked the other book(Jacob's) better because I didn't have to think."