How do you teach your children to write a thesis statement?

[Michelle in MO]

It seems my older two girls still have trouble with this. My middle daughter (8th grade, 13 years old) wrote a report about Queen Elizabeth. She was supposed to turn it into a thesis. The same is true of my oldest daughter: she wrote a critical book review of one of C.S. Lewis's books which was supposed to have a thesis. She still doesn't quite have it.

Do any of you have any special question and answer mode you engage your children in, or some other method, for teaching your children how to write a thesis statement?

TIA!

[MIch elle]

at Perdue U. (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/545/01/)

[Beth in Central TX]

Well, I have been teaching myself how to write, including how to write a thesis statement. I've been reading through The Lively Art of Writing by Lucile Vaughan Payne; you can pick up this book used on Amazon at a very cheap price. I'm really like this book and will use to help me teach writing to my boys. I like this definition of a thesis statement taken from Chapter 2: "The thesis of your essay is your opinion boiled down to one arguable statement." It's a short chapter that gives you a 5-step process on how to develop a thesis statement.

HTH!

[Michelle in MO]

the resource from OWL (Purdue University). It seems like I've made these same points over and over again with my girls, but sometimes they "get" it and sometimes they don't. That becomes evident in their writing.

I guess it's just frustrating; I feel like I'm not communicating very well with them on this subject.

:(

[Jean in Wisc]

Format Writing has detailed lessons on writing the thesis statement and the introductory paragraph for the essay.

[Mommyfaithe]

OK....Here is something I am actually good at teaching...no really!!!!!

OK...A Thesis is actually a "try." IOW it is a sentence...which has an opinion...written as a fact...and then includes the three main points of WHY your try is true...

Chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream because it is the sweetest, the most creamy and most people choose it over any other ice cream flavor.

OK...so it is not logically valid...BUT it is a "try."

Now, my 3 body paragraphs will back up my thesis in order with supporting details..convincing my reader that chocolate is truly the best ice cream flavor.

So, that is my quick thesis lesson.

Blessings,
Faithe

[kathleen]

OK...A Thesis is actually a "try." IOW it is a sentence...which has an opinion...written as a fact...and then includes the three main points of WHY your try is true...Faithe

Not to nitpick here :), but it's actually "essay" that means try. It comes from the French essai, which means "trial, attempt." A thesis is simply a proposition that is maintained by an argument.

I don't think that the thesis statement has to have three main points. This can be useful when a student is first learning to write a 5-paragraph essay, but more sophisticated essays can have one main argument, or certainly more than three. Also, the points of the argument don't necessarily need to be stated in the actual thesis statement itself.

I don't know if this will help or not, Michelle, but when my son was in Torrey Academy, the students were forced to use a particular form of thesis statement. We found it helpful for a starting point, and maybe that can help your daughters to get used to the idea. It went like this: "Although...,(I think)...because..." So, the "although" clause would be the opposition to your argument--"Although Karl Marx thought communism would rock, (I think) capitalism is the best economic system because it offers the most X to the most people." Now, in that "because" clause, you can do what Faithe mentioned and have three reasons why you think capitalism is great, or you can just say that it has proven to lift the most people out of poverty (or whatever) and then go on and elaborate on that.

This format has some problems, but it is a decent starting place. Your argument would have to have some opposition for this to work, of course. Also, I put I think in parentheses because the student wouldn't actually put that phrase in the paper, since academic papers shouldn't usually contain personal pronouns.

[Mommyfaithe]

but my format...which was just a quick...this is how you do it in High School to pass a timed SAT or entrance test etc has worked wonders for my girls...AND it is easy to explain...and then to build on, teaching the finer nuances of essay writing as we go. I think having a good jump off point and then building from there helps the student gain confidence in their writing ability and then their writing ability improves. I think I can...I think I can.

I knew my xample was stupid...but I was trying to show an example that was easy...clear...and even quite juvenille....I like to start easy and build.:D

Of course 3 is not a magic number...BUT...your thesis SHOULD state your main points...I chose 3 because it is "industry" standard.

Another way to learn to write great theses is to read great essays...put on your spy hat and play "find the thesis."

Then we play outline the essay...then re-write the essay...then make it a better piece of writing if you can.

Basically Kathleen, what I am saying is we have to begin somewhere and since these girls are having trouble getting started, I just wanted to give them a starting point....

Oh, I do teach the Although (opposite point which comes up in the "however" paragraph of a <GASP> six paragraph essay....(I think) state opinion as fact...because...blah...blah...blah and really interesteing blah.

I really do know how to write an essay and a thesis statement...I guess I was just too quick to post my reply without reading it over first...
It is because of my yearly Math panic (read my most recent post.):tongue_smilie:

~~Faithe

[Leah]

A thesis is simply a proposition that is maintained by an argument.

I don't think that the thesis statement has to have three main points. This can be useful when a student is first learning to write a 5-paragraph essay, but more sophisticated essays can have one main argument, or certainly more than three. Also, the points of the argument don't necessarily need to be stated in the actual thesis statement itself.



Excellent advice! I think Kathleen's definition of a thesis is very important for mom and student to understand. One of the most common errors with a thesis statement is that it is not a statement which can be defended or supported. The thesis statement is often just a report topic sentence.

It is absolutely correct that the thesis statement does not need to state the main points of the essay. But this can make a beginning essay much simpler since it frames the content of the essay nicely. I think that a student still learning to write a thesis should start with this type. Even though it can be formulaic, it can help them solidify the thesis in their own writing. Branching out into variations can be quite simple after the basic idea is learned.

When we are first learning the thesis, I focus first on a "should" question-should capitalism be considered the best economic system? Or should chocolate ice cream be considered the best? Then why or why not? This helps the student work on a defensible idea.

[kathleen]

Faithe! I'm sorry--I really wasn't trying to pick on you :ohmy:. I did state that the 5-paragraph essay type thesis statement (with the three reasons stated right in the thesis) is a good start. I just didn't want anyone to think that the thesis statement had to include the reasons (three or otherwise).

A good thesis statement that doesn't include the reasons:

"The real protagonist of Arthur Miller's The Crucible is not an individual, but the town of Salem."

Or this one:

"Through its contrasting river and shore scenes, Twain's Huckleberry Finn suggests that to find the true expression of American democratic ideals, one must leave "civilized" society and go back to nature." (from this site (http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/thesis.html)).

[Michelle in MO]

I don't think that the thesis statement has to have three main points. This can be useful when a student is first learning to write a 5-paragraph essay, but more sophisticated essays can have one main argument, or certainly more than three. Also, the points of the argument don't necessarily need to be stated in the actual thesis statement itself.

I don't know if this will help or not, Michelle, but when my son was in Torrey Academy, the students were forced to use a particular form of thesis statement. We found it helpful for a starting point, and maybe that can help your daughters to get used to the idea. It went like this: "Although...,(I think)...because..." So, the "although" clause would be the opposition to your argument--"Although Karl Marx thought communism would rock, (I think) capitalism is the best economic system because it offers the most X to the most people." Now, in that "because" clause, you can do what Faithe mentioned and have three reasons why you think capitalism is great, or you can just say that it has proven to lift the most people out of poverty (or whatever) and then go on and elaborate on that.

This format has some problems, but it is a decent starting place. Your argument would have to have some opposition for this to work, of course. Also, I put I think in parentheses because the student wouldn't actually put that phrase in the paper, since academic papers shouldn't usually contain personal pronouns.

Although I really dislike formulas, perhaps the formula isn't a bad idea. For instance, I'm studying to take my GRE (in less than two short weeks, as a matter of fact! :eek: ) and my Princeton Review book gives some very simple, formulaic "templates," so to speak, for writing the issue topic essay and the argument analysis essay. Maybe they're somewhat "boring," but perhaps it's a good starting place. This goes back to the concepts presented in the Classical Writing series and the progymnasmata: students need a model---something to copy. So---Jean, I may take a look at Jensen's Format Writing. I've never seen it, but it sounds like the book gives certain formats for writing certain types of essays, etc.

The five paragraph essay is a good model to copy. Really, a longer research paper and most non-fiction books are just much more magnified versions of the thesis.

My older daughter almost has it. She loves C.S. Lewis, but dislikes some of the Narnia series because she agrees with Tolkien's opinion of allegory: somewhat heavy-handed and unnecessary. She likes the stories, but doesn't like the strong allegory. However, her writing came across more like a movie review rather than a critical book review, and she needs to learn how to glean examples from the literature in order to shore up her opinion.

Thanks for sharing! All of you gave really very good advice!

[Nan in Mass]

That is something they are used to doing and it kept them from feeling like the thesis statement had to be an already verified fact.
-Nan

[Mommyfaithe]

Faithe! I'm sorry--I really wasn't trying to pick on you :ohmy:. I did state that the 5-paragraph essay type thesis statement (with the three reasons stated right in the thesis) is a good start. I just didn't want anyone to think that the thesis statement had to include the reasons (three or otherwise).

A good thesis statement that doesn't include the reasons:

"The real protagonist of Arthur Miller's The Crucible is not an individual, but the town of Salem."

Or this one:

"Through its contrasting river and shore scenes, Twain's Huckleberry Finn suggests that to find the true expression of American democratic ideals, one must leave "civilized" society and go back to nature." (from this site (http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/thesis.html)).

Your explanation was correct and wonderful. I just wanted to state the reason for using an ultra boring formulaic thesis statement is a jump-off point...gives the kids confidence to write their essay and gives a structure to essay writing from which a very new essay writer can grasp and grow . It also makes those essay graders happy...it is easy for them to find, they can check each paragraph to make sure the thesis is backed up by the content and helps the student to keep their essay structured and logical...especially when they are being tested and timed.

Teaching the actual ART of essay writing...teaching our chilren to be persuasive and logical in their arguments and clear in their explanations is a process which takes a looooong time. Helping them to overcome the "deer in the headlights look," and get on with the actual practice has to happen first.

Formulaic structured writing is that first step to pulling the writing out of the kid...it puts them at ease to know what is expected, breaks down the process into a recipe and then gives them the opportunity to work within parameters and then grow from those parameters.

I did not feel nitpicked on at all....I just love these types of conversations because I always learn something new from them and I am then able to bring that into my teaching.
Have a great day
:D

~~Faithe

[ChocolatePrincess]

Format Writing has detailed lessons on writing the thesis statement and the introductory paragraph for the essay.


I tried everything for my dd and this simple book has fixed it all. I have a horrible time teaching how to write and she had a horrible time learning to write. Jensen's Format Writing has worked for us.