Outlining Stress

[Suzybearybake]

We decided to go with Truthquest Middle ages for my son in 7th. I think the material looks great. Today we started the program. I am unsure how to make sure that he doesn't forget what we have covered if it is done primarily through oral discussion. He is the kind of kid that will read quickly and may not retain what was read. I can not trust that he actually read anything. I had this epiphany. He can outline each chapter he reads in the Guerber books in place of comprehension questions. Well appearently the child is physically unable to outline. I explained what was expected and did the first chapter with him. He has done keyword outlines in the past and set up outlines from given material but has extreme difficulty picking out what is important enough to take notes on. We think he has some ADD tendancies but he has never been diagnosed. We have been battling all day over whether or not he can do this.( It is just to hard, not fair, brother did not have to do this.) I am seriously contemplating showing the child how medevial mom can get. My question is should I stick with the outlining because it is a skill he should be learning or find a different way to do this because I am teaching two others ( one of which is in Omnibus) and need to retain some of my sanity? How to others implement this program? Do you give grades for the Thinkwrite questions? I am not sure if there is anything else even close to this in my price range (not TOG) that includes tests, quizzes, and questions. I have looked and this was what we decided on. I really do not want to be stuck with BJU. Any input teaching, parenting, or otherwise would be greatly appreciated.

[Beth in Central TX]

Here are a couple of good resources to help with teaching outlining: http://www.rempub.com/Details.cfm?ProdId=3859&category=0 It may be that outlining a whole chapter is too overwhelming at this point without some guided practice.

I've changed my philosophy on outlining since my boys started the logic stage. I've found that it is very difficult to outline someone else's thoughts. Therefore, I've decided to have my boys take notes from the history books (http://www.nwlg.org/pages/resources/knowitall/studyskills/notes4.htm) and outline their own thoughts as they create their own composition. It's been a good change for us.

[Hoggirl]

Agreeing with Beth's suggestions. We are working through the second outlining book in that series, and I think it has been helpful. Also, have you outlined with your ds? Someone on the board suggested this, and it has been helpful also. Have your ds read a short section aloud , and then show on a whiteboard (or piece of paper) how you would outline it. Discuss it and talk about other things you could have added (but why you left them out) and ask if he thinks things could be omitted (and why), and how it could be set up differently. Next time, you read the section aloud and have him do the outlining. Take turns doing this for a couple of weeks together. This modeling was also helpful for ds.
And, FWIW, I don't think the Guerber books are particularly conducive to outlining. They are so narrative in nature. Do you have something else that he could outline (like Kingfisher or an Usborne book)? I do LIKE them. I just think they would be hard to outline.
HTH

[Suzybearybake]

Thanks so much for your imput. We went ahead and had him just take notes on the material. It went much smoother.

[Kathie in VA]

I have the same Guerber books. My kids also have trouble outlining and notetaking. I've tried to do some of the notetaking as I read aloud to them. I figure they are learning most things through example so that it what I should be doing here also. I just read aloud and stopped when I thought we got to or through an important point (sometimes we didn't 'get the point' till we finnished that part). So then I write the names or places and events down on paper. I showed them some ways to organize as you go (a bit of outlining mixed with notetaking). I tried to have them do some afterwards but it didn't work for me either. Outlining Kingfisher was hard 'cause it was already so short; outlining a narrative like this is hard 'cause it's ... so.. full of discussion. I've also looked at the Remedial outlining books and keep them on my list of options. But we have sooo many different things to do that I'd prefer NOT to add another separate subject, if possible. I'm going to try again this spring to work on notetaking/outlining. My kids tend not to need to outline for their writing papers yet, but perhaps that will be changing soon as their papers will be getting longer. I may have them copy the outline this time (be better if I had a big white-board). I'm hoping that doing a few of these together will help them to get a feel for it. Perhaps I'll even have my two oldest (now 6th and 7th grades) work on some together as a team or in a competition if need be.

My main problem with doing this is that it really slows down our history.

One idea I had once but haven't been able to put into practice yet is this:
Have both kids outline to write a paper. Write their papers from their outlines. After editing and finalizing they switch papers. Then they take notes and create an outline of their siblings paper. The lesson comes when they compare the outlines based on the papers with the outlines written before the papers.

I have one of the Truthquest guides here also. One thing you could do is have your dc do small write ups for each ThinkWrite. You could also have them create a comic strip of what he learned, a narration, a comparison chart, two narrations each of a different point of view, etc. Perhaps they could also do a timeline and include events and people from each lesson.

hth

[Kathie in VA]

Oh one more thing. Here is a website that someone here posted for me on how to take notes. As I've been re-reading it I think I'll print it for my kids and go over it with them.

http://www.accd.edu/sac/history/keller/ACCDitg/SSSQ3R.htm

The site that Beth posted on notetaking also seems good.