Would public school help my dd(Aspie?)with these things?

[VBCaroline]

My 14 yo dd has not been in public school since kindergarten. We pulled her out mid-year and began our homeschooling journey because she was not learning! She has nonverbal learning disability, a genetic syndrome called Beckwith-Wiedemann, and more likely than not, at least a couple of other physical and/or developmental things going on. She did get a diagnosis of AS a couple of years ago, but I've never really "embraced" that label because she doesn't fit what I thought was the typical AS mold in some ways. We are revisiting this diagnosis with a psychiatrist now.

IMO, she is doing as well as she can academically. We just started seeing the psych. because she is having major problems with anxiety. It is his opinion that she would be better served by being in public school. He has not come at me with this full force yet because we have only been to see him twice, but I see it coming. Here are some of his reasons.

1. She becomes lost easily (she literally got lost walking around a soccer field recently). Being in a large school would help her to learn navigational skills and how to problem solve in this situation.

2. Being picked on because you act differently and look different is part of life. Better she learn to deal with it now.

3. Mom (me!) wants to comfort and shelter her too much.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about what he says. I have nightmares about her trying to navigate the community college campus or figure out public transportation routes (I'm pretty sure I don't ever want to be on the same road if she is driving:)).

She already gets teased *from a distance* by obnoxious teens in groups who mock her because of her looks. Then there are the constantly staring children(I know, they are curious) and even adults who give her second and third looks. She really doesn't look extremely different, just enough to make some people want to figure her out.

Yes, I am pretty sheltering. She's had a hard life, and I love her. She's already stressed out by irrational fears.

She tires easily-mentally and physically. It would take her a while to adjust to being in school everyday.

We will definitely go back to see this doctor. He has a very good reputation for making diagnoses that are accurate, and her case seems to be especially complicated. We would not have to continue seeing him for treatment.

Has anyone chosen public school for their AS child for these or other reasons? What other questions do I need to be asking? Anything else I need to consider?
Thanks.
Caroline

[Renee in FL]

I think you can work on all those things without it being in a ps. Take her on public transportation and teach her to navigate. The only people likely to "pick on her" are obnoxious kids and young adults - you can find them just about anywhere.:glare:

And maybe she is getting a lot of comfort and care from you. Start having her be more independent. Make her do things on her own. Give her freedom within some parameters.

PS has got to be the worst place to put a child with special needs at the high school age.

[Momto2Ns]

1. She becomes lost easily (she literally got lost walking around a soccer field recently). Being in a large school would help her to learn navigational skills and how to problem solve in this situation.

2. Being picked on because you act differently and look different is part of life. Better she learn to deal with it now.

3. Mom (me!) wants to comfort and shelter her too much.

Has anyone chosen public school for their AS child for these or other reasons? What other questions do I need to be asking? Anything else I need to consider?
Thanks.
Caroline

No, the public schools will not help with these things.
1. She will get lost, be late, be frustrated and be in trouble, but that will not help her learn to navigate. AS kids need to be taught, not thrust into situations to learn by experience - they don't learn that way.

2. She will be teased and tormented, but what is the profit in that? Why better now than later. Adults rarely make fun of the ways someone looks or speaks. There is no need to deal with that from mean spirited teens.

3. Yeah so :D.

We had our ASD child in the ps from preK-5. I only regret 5. He got wonderful OT, speech, teachers that worked with him, and kids helping him learn social skills. In the evening, I picked it up. He got stimulation every waking hour of his day, rigid, routine driven stimulation and he needed it.

In 5th grade our district switches to an upper elementary and the tone of the building changed. The kids got mean and the teachers quit helping. We began homeschooling at the beginning of 6th. I think ds benefitted hugely from the independence and the professional services provided by the ps. Now he benefits from the one on one education of homeschooling. He is happy, gaining socially, and at or above grade level in every academic area. I think there are things the ps offer. I don't think any of the things your dr is pushing are among them.

[WendyK]

Nope.

The little nagging thought that public school is natural and necessary creeps up on me from time to time. It isn't natural and necessary. And I'm learning that while homeschooling is not exactly like public school this doesn't mean it is bad or harmful. Different does not always equal bad.

I believe there are ways to work on whatever issue she may have without sending her to school. And you can do it in a way that won't traumatize her for the rest of her life. I think you run that risk if you send her given the circumstances.

Of course the psych will suggest it. You will be hard pressed to find one who won't. They mean well. They just go with what they (think) they know. We all grow up with these institutions. They are a part of most people's lives (school, etc). It is really hard to see that another way can be positive and good and right for the individual.

Frankly, in this situation I would shop around for a psychologist who would support my decision to homeschool. I would lay it out upfront. I would let them know that you will do whatever it takes to help your daughter, but that the homeschooling is not negotiable.

It's interesting, when school gets rough for a kid, how many people suggest they find an alternative? Very few. They make the kid suffer and stick it out. They work around the bad school situation (but not by pulling the kid out of school or changing that environment). Yet professionals have no qualms about telling us we can't find a way to make homeschooling work.

Sorry I have gone on and on about this so much, but I feel very passionately about it. :001_smile:

[newbie]

You would have to find a wonderful ps that had a great special ed program w/a good transition program. Good luck. It is possible , but you have to fight for it.

At 14, all the things you mentioned fall under transition, which by law must be addressed by ps. thru an IEP.

Quick story, they just placed my dn in a Transition program, she is 21, I have been begging for more than three years.

These things can be taught at home. Pull up transition/life skills. Start learning about things she can do to become independent. For ps that means taking public transportation. They get a bus pass w/lil help. They start reading schedules and learn how to navigate their way around town.

Shopping. Help w/grocery list. Start shopping w/you than gradually do on own. PS actually send kids in w/list and money and see what they come out w/.

Finance, start a checking acct. There are good programs online you can buy cheap.

Planners, start planning everything. Buy her a dayplanner, organize everything, with ld this really helps.

Food, start making meals after grocery shop.

Socialization, there are many Aspie teen groups, check out info in your area. Get involved thru community. See if there are any ld girl scout or 4H.

Start teaching her about her disability. So she can communicate to employers and others her needs. Be a self advocate is the best tool they can learn.

If you need any more help, just pm me. Its all about pulling resources and planning, have her help. Actually , hsers have more resources than ps and spec ed teachers sometimes.

The only thing ps can help w/is therapies that might benefit.

[chiguirre]

You might want to consider ps, but not for the reasons the psych mentioned. Depending on the level of your dd's disabilities, she can qualify to attend ps until she turns 22. There are lots of job training and vo tech options available through special ed in the ps that may be a good match for her. The life skills training can be useful and promote independence. OTOH, if she isn't disabled enough to avoid being placed in general education classes, I wouldn't enroll her in ps.

The only way you can find out what they'd offer your dd is by calling the ps and finding out. Then you'll be in a better position to judge if it's worth pursuing or not. But, I wouldn't let myself be cowed into throwing your dd into an overwhelming situation just because your psych can't think outside the box. I got some flak from the boy's ped. neurologist about hsing ds2. I obviously discounted that advice, and lo and behold, the doctor was praising ds's progress after 6 months. Apparently he though hsing meant that ds would never leave the house and was surprised at all the activities ds participates in. You can't count on a doctor to be very familiar with hsing and to really know if it's a good fit or not. I think they'll get better about this as they deal with more hsers, but it will take a while.

[HeidiD]

Frankly, in this situation I would shop around for a psychologist who would support my decision to homeschool.

I agree completely with the other posters. When my Aspie was in ps, her anxiety and peculiar behavior increased. I honestly don't understand how a doctor could conclude that throwing a child who is psychologically and emotionally ill-equipped into the shark tank will somehow be beneficial. Our local high school is unfortunately a zoo and there's no way my daughter would benefit from being there. And furthermore, I see nothing wrong with you sheltering your child, because your mother's instincts are telling you that's what she needs at the moment. Working on social, navigational and other skills at HER pace is likely to be more successful in the long run. And since Aspies tend to lag several years behind their peers, there's no need to panic if she's a bit delayed in some areas. Given time and support, she will improve.

[VBCaroline]

Thank you for all the encouragement and the good information. Keep it coming! I think I have some good questions to ask now.
Caroline

[Jill, OK]

...I would respond by acknowledging the reasonable parts of what he's saying, if you feel that he's helpful, overall, and see if he's able to accept that you're going to listen and implement some of what he's suggesting. I was fortunate in that the psych that did our evaluation was pretty pro-homeschooling...or at least didn't say anything about it being negative. I really feel strongly that public school is not the answer for much of what you describe. If public school attendance is a goal for you, then I would try and address some of those issues before going, actually, so that learning and whatever other goals are part of the rationale would be more likely. Some of the problems you describe would seem to detract from learning, which I believe is really the ultimate goal of school.


1. She becomes lost easily (she literally got lost walking around a soccer field recently).

I agree with the person who suggested focused teaching about navigation in "real life" situations.



2. Being picked on because you act differently and look different is part of life. Better she learn to deal with it now.)

I have such a problem with "professionals" (and amateurs, lol) who use this line. School is the ONLY place I can think of where this happens. If it happens in the workplace, or in a marriage, or other situation, it's immediately shut down, and no one believes you should stand for it. And yet it's supposedly good for children to endure it, when they're supposed to be in a safe learning environment. The likelihood of an adult picking on another adult because they're different is much less than that of a group of children picking on another child. The chances of a child telling about that sort of treatment in a school setting isn't good, either; no one might ever know some of what she goes through. (Other adults in workplace/church/other social situations are more likely to stop such behavior, rather than be silent or take part.)

3. Mom (me!) wants to comfort and shelter her too much.

Try and see if there's any truth to that. It might be possible, but if it is, you can lessen your sheltering of her without giving up homeschooling. You said, "Yes, I am pretty sheltering. She's had a hard life, and I love her. She's already stressed out by irrational fears."I understand what you're saying, about this guy's reputation for winnowing things out, and I applaud your decision to continue, and examine some of what he's saying, even if it's uncomfortable, to see if it might be valid.

But I think moms have a sense about what their kids need. You sound like you're sensitive, and trying to do your best for her, and I think you'll make the right decision.

My middle daughter has a diagnosis of Asperger's (it was pretty close between autism and AS; her verbal development was what tipped it towards AS), but we remain skeptical. There's so much overlap between so many conditions and issues, that I think it's probably not unusual for there to be kids who don't really fit into a neat diagnostic box. I'm pretty sure my daughter is one of them. She may not even have anything "technically" amiss with her...just quirky to the extreme. (My mother has told me for years and years that she's exactly like I was as a child, and I was the Queen of Quirky, lol.) But she has needed a different approach from most kids, and I can tell you that as much as I love homeschooling as a general idea...it's probably been especially good for her. I can't imagine how she would have fared at public school.

We've seen her change and grow...but it's been on her timetable. Whether or not your dd has AS, she has something that makes her different, and she may either get to some benchmarks more slowly than others, or have to learn to adapt if she can't reach them at all. I commend you for trying to do what she needs, and I want to encourage you to both listen to the doctor, even if he tells you something that stretches you...

...and feel free to ignore him, if his professional opinion doesn't jibe with what your Mommy's heart tells you.

My free advice. Worth every penny, lol. :D

[Ottakee]

I would say that it would depend a GREAT deal on your school's special education program.

My son (other than 2 years) has had a great experience (the 2 years weren't bad, just not as great). He did some job training, life skills, stuff, had a great time, etc.

My 14dd just started in Sept. She LOVES going. She goes from 9-noon. She rides the elementary special ed. bus in to school and then comes home at noon in a van. She is getting OT, PT, and speech along with a group motor class 1x week and some socialization. Academics---I am not impressed so far and if they push to have her stay longer, I will require they do more with academics with her.

Some schools have great programs. So far my dd has not complained of ANY teasing (we only have that at church from some jr. high boys). My son never had any social issues but he is quite socially appropriate.

Another possible benefit I see of enrolling her is that when she turns 18, she might qualify for disability and medicaid. It is a lot easier to prove to the gov. that thye are disabled if they have been in a school program, and have a long paper trail showing their needs. Harder if it is just mom and dad claiming a disability.

In our state, the kids can attend until they are 26 and get a lot of job training.

[VBCaroline]

Thank you, everyone, for your advice. I value all of it. You've given me a lot to consider.

I do worry about whether or not she will qualify for services(specifically Medicaid) when she turns 18. That is one of the main reasons we are going for a diagnosis and follow-up treatment now. I had a brief conversation with a navy social worker, and she told me that the best way to set my dd up for qualifying(if she does qualify) is to start seeing a psychologist now and establish a long-term relationship. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks.
Caroline

[WendyK]

Thank you, everyone, for your advice. I value all of it. You've given me a lot to consider.

I do worry about whether or not she will qualify for services(specifically Medicaid) when she turns 18. That is one of the main reasons we are going for a diagnosis and follow-up treatment now. I had a brief conversation with a navy social worker, and she told me that the best way to set my dd up for qualifying(if she does qualify) is to start seeing a psychologist now and establish a long-term relationship. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks.
Caroline
I don't exactly have experience with it except it seems reasonable. My dad has had a long term relationship with a psychiatrist (he has a mental illness). My dad is disabled and he was granted the disability benefits because of his doctor's recommendations. So I can see that as being helpful.

[newbie]

I would say that it would depend a GREAT deal on your school's special education program.

My son (other than 2 years) has had a great experience (the 2 years weren't bad, just not as great). He did some job training, life skills, stuff, had a great time, etc.

My 14dd just started in Sept. She LOVES going. She goes from 9-noon. She rides the elementary special ed. bus in to school and then comes home at noon in a van. She is getting OT, PT, and speech along with a group motor class 1x week and some socialization. Academics---I am not impressed so far and if they push to have her stay longer, I will require they do more with academics with her.

Some schools have great programs. So far my dd has not complained of ANY teasing (we only have that at church from some jr. high boys). My son never had any social issues but he is quite socially appropriate.

Another possible benefit I see of enrolling her is that when she turns 18, she might qualify for disability and medicaid. It is a lot easier to prove to the gov. that thye are disabled if they have been in a school program, and have a long paper trail showing their needs. Harder if it is just mom and dad claiming a disability.

In our state, the kids can attend until they are 26 and get a lot of job training.
You are so right, every district is different. But, on the enrollment w/disability benefit does not apply.

My dn has been enrolled in spec ed since K, matter of fact I demanded compulsory ed. to extend three more yrs. b/c they did not provide what she needed.

But, it came time her mom wanted disability and medicaid in Ca. it is not a guarantee. I think she is going on her second denial. They do not care. What bases it for SSI is IQ score. They have a cutoff accept and no accept. But, I think aspies are auto accept. Since dn is borderline, I think 72 range, hard time getting her SSI.

Now, they did mention if she had more dr. visits regarding her disability or psych visits continually she would qualify , some kind of paper trail on the md side not school side. SSI is not easy to get, at least here.

[Ottakee]

No, disability is not a given but it does provide a paper trail in the schools---the IEP that they were mentally impaired or emotionally impaired, or .............

Sad to say, 72 is considered low normal (by just 2 points) that those are the people that fall through the cracks.

My own 14dd has an IQ score of 38. Now, she is NOT a 38 (more like 60-65) BUT scores like these will help ensure that she continues to get the services she needs.

[newbie]

No, disability is not a given but it does provide a paper trail in the schools---the IEP that they were mentally impaired or emotionally impaired, or .............

Sad to say, 72 is considered low normal (by just 2 points) that those are the people that fall through the cracks.

My own 14dd has an IQ score of 38. Now, she is NOT a 38 (more like 60-65) BUT scores like these will help ensure that she continues to get the services she needs.

In a normal world(we are in CA) being spec ed for 21 years should be auto qualify w/IEPs stating dx for last five years. But, no it was unacceptable in SSI eyes.

Mind you she did get in with a Regional Center here, but SSI is giving the runaround they want more medical trail here.

Every state is probably different.

[nestof3]

Caroline,

Just one thing.

I know this is different, but I have a friend from college (he was my best friend for five years) who suffered a massive stroke when he was about 32. He was super healthy but had a high platelet count. He had almost finished his masters program in electrical engineering and found himself in a coma. He finished his degree.

It is horrible that he is now legally blind and depends on the public transportation system. One of his concerns with moving across the country to where his wife's family lives is that he would have to take time to find a good transportation system and live close to it. He cannot distinguish one face from another. He teaches advanced calculus and such at a private school. He was frightened with having to learn things like this later in life, but he survived. I am certain that you can help her with this, and she would receive the proper supervision while learning this.

I think you would find that you could help her learn about life much better and more gently than she would by being thrown into the public school system. I do think it would be wise to provide her with the opportunities, but she does have time. She's still young.

I can say that I too would find a psychologist who is supportive of homeschooling. Knowing you, I would really like to encourage you to continue to homeschool her.

Oh, and Caroline,

Medical professionals question our homeschooling as well. I am finding people warming up to it more, but overall, they're still nervous about it.

[iammommy]

Public school will increase her anxiety. It will NOT help with any of those issues. It's pretty common for the psych/med. communiity to think ps can solve these issues, but forget it. You can work on these issues in a gentle and kind way. Stick with what your heart is telling you. Don't let outsiders convince you to do otherwise! You sound like an awesome mom who really knows her child.

Nan

[Greta Lea]

My 15yo ds has AS. He sees a psychologist who also sees a few other teenage boys who have AS. My ds is the only one of these boys that he sees who is homeschooled. Our dr. says that the BEST thing I've ever done for my son is to homeschool him.

I have always looked at every situation in life as a training situation for my ds.

[sandellie4]

My 15yo ds has AS. He sees a psychologist who also sees a few other teenage boys who have AS. My ds is the only one of these boys that he sees who is homeschooled. Our dr. says that the BEST thing I've ever done for my son is to homeschool him.

I have always looked at every situation in life as a training situation for my ds.

:iagree: Same here. My daughter, 15, is in a social skills group with other Aspies, and at first, the psychologist and aides thought my daughter would be "behind" in academics and social skills. Well, she is, because she has a social disability, but she is the only one in the group who likes to learn and who approaches challenges with a willing spirit. In the past year (she's been attending this group for three years), the staff is starting to notice how good homeschooling has been for her. One of the aides mentioned to me how cool it is that she likes to learn (the other teens are resistant to learning, partly because they have never been in charge of their own learning). It turns out this aide is bipolar, and he told me he wishes he'd been homeschooled.

We are working on all of the survival/life skills, from cooking, to shopping, to using public transportation with all of our special needs children. In our area, the public schools sound like they have great transitional/vocational programs, but when I see the public school kids graduating, it seems to me that they've been short-changed. They've been given cookie-cutter jobs that didn't grow or change with their skill level. They've gone through mock job interviews. They think they're too dumb to go to community college (even the ones with average IQs and above). They have many social behaviors that will make the world that much tougher for them.

Getting kids ready for the real world, especially when it comes to special needs kids, is really intense. I don't think many public schools are equipped, or have the trained staff, to accomplish the goals that sound so good on the IEP. I used to worry that I was being stubborn and willfully keeping my kids from all of the public school programs that could benefit them. But when I see my kids next to the ones who are barely surviving in public school, well, now I know I'm doing the right thing. It's hard but I'm more committed than I've ever been.

Just my 2 cents...

Sandy

[melmichigan]

I am at the opposite end. First I will say my DD10, who has AS has an extemely high IQ, so I can't comment to that portion of the concern. My DD has been in public school since K. She began a partial enrollment in 4th, attending for speech and social work along with LA, so she goes until noon. This has been ok up until now. We will be bringing her home full time in February. The school cannot meet her needs and after a meeting yesterday with the middle school I cannot send her there. I walked the halls and listened in on some classes and it would not be a good place for my DD.

Unless your DD qualifies for a seperate classroom program or a vocational training program in another building I would think twice before putting her in a traditional classroom setting, especially at the high school level. We managed elementary but middle school is a definate no.

I think, as others have mentioned, that there are other resources to work on the skills you have mentioned, without the PS being involved academically. If you are discussing attending to see a speech therapist, if your state allows that ,then that I might consider that if your insurance won't pay for it otherwise. My DD will continue to see the speech therapist once a week at the PS, services are written into her IEP and it is good until seventh grade.

[hsbaby]

I can't believe your psychiatrist's reasoning!! Seriously, they need to get used to being picked on? Ummm, yeah, because so often you see grown adults picking on other people because of their disabilities. That statement infuriates me so much I can't even type out a rational response:glare: My dd spent 12 years in the ps system. I can remember "spying" on her from a nearby parking lot at recess time just to see what was going on. She was always alone. It broke my heart. She always looked so lost. I'm sure this was fabulous for her self esteem. Her anxiety level was sky high and she would cry every morning before school. I would give anything to go back and never have sent her to ps. I want to add that I am not totally anti-ps. I myself loved it. However, they are rarely equipped to meet the needs of special needs kiddos. Maybe educationally, but socially these kids are just thrown into the lions den:(

[VBCaroline]

Wow! Thank you for the continued responses. You have all been a great encouragement to me to keep doing what we're doing. I especially appreciate you all sharing your experiences with ps.
Thanks to all.
Caroline