How important is your ethnicity to you?

[*anj*]

I've been following the ethnicity threads with interest. I really don't identify with that line of thinking at all, and it makes me wonder if I'm just odd or is it that important to people?
I guess I'm especially thinking of the people who say they're 1/8 or less of some nationality. Does it have any bearing on who you are? I've likewise been kind of confused about shirts that say "XYZ and Proud." I usually reserve pride for something that I've accomplished or contributed to. Your ethnic background is merely genetic makeup for which you can take no credit. It's not as if you chose well when you decided to be (fill in the blank.)

I'm honestly not meaning to be snarky. Truly. It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on and it comes to mind on a day like St. Patrick's Day so I thought I could get some good input here.

[Whisperlily]

I'm very proud of my American heritage. My husband is a soldier. I may not agree with the political scene all the time, but I do love my country. THIS is my "motherland" or "fatherland" mostly it is my home country.

I have descendants from different places, but I'm as full-blooded American as any full-blooded Irish is Irish, or English is English. There had to be a melding of bloodlines to form each "cultural heritage."

Perhaps if I still had relatives that I knew living in other countries I'd feel more of a blood-tie to them, but I don't.

[Kris]

We're just mutts -- I guess I don't think about it that much. :-)

[Karenciavo]

I really don't care about it. Now my husband's father is from Esperia, in the province of Frosinone about 1.5 hours south of Roma and he is very proud of his heritage.

[GothicGyrl]

I am proud of my Italian heritage. I've got a good mix backround on that side (peasant/minor royalty/mafian)... my Cuban side I don't know much about except that they are true Cuban American's (most generations go back to the birth of Tampa, when it was nothing but Cuban ancestry).

But I am very much in to my Italian side. Do I "DO" St. Patty's day? Nah.. it's just another fun day to me. But I do have ancestors all over Europe, so it would be cool to wrap that up.

And yes, I am proud of the mafian part. I just don't know how much of it is. Never delved in to it.

Oh I did want to say that I am very curious about DH's ancestry--he is German and Bohemian. And the Bohemian intrigues me.

[Michelle T]

My ethnicity as a Jew, very important, a defining characteristic of who I am. My ancestry from Germany, Poland, Austria..... not particularly important to me. I consider myself American.

DH, on the other hand, is very proud of his 1/2 Irish background, particularly today. It's funny, because his mom, who came here from Ireland when she was a teenager, doesn't seem to care so much about Ireland, but you'd think DH had been born and bred there!
Michelle T

[Mrs Mungo]

My grandmother was chief of our tribe and went before the Supreme Court to ensure the US government had to meet its obligations to her tribe. So, it is important to me even though I'm not fully Native American.

[Scarlett]

I usually reserve pride for something that I've accomplished or contributed to. Your ethnic background is merely genetic makeup for which you can take no credit. It's not as if you chose well when you decided to be (fill in the blank.).

Tee hee. This reminds me of a commercial that Cybil Shepard did for...'I'm worth it' brand. L'oreal? Anyway, she is spinning in that big chair and she says, 'SOME people say I'm attractive. I say I Agree! Afterall, I had nothing to do with it, my mother and father are responsible for that.' I love that commercial.

I'm honestly not meaning to be snarky. Truly. It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on

I'm with you. My mom is into geneology and sometimes she comes across something that interests us, in a 'well, I'll be!' sort of way, but it has no bearing on how I feel about myself--good or bad. I think my maternal grandmother was half Cherokee. That is about all I know.

[Antonia]

I think I just identify more with certain parts of my heritage than others; they are more a part of my personality... my famous temper, for instance, and my uncanny ability to hold my liquor are from my Irish grandfather (according to my mom). :D My love of Italy came from spending lots of time with my right-off-the-boat great-grandma.

I consider myself to be first and foremost an American, though. I love this country so much and feel so strongly that it is home, that I actually get homesick when we take a daytrip into Canada.

[Joanne]

It has a lot of meaning to me. My mom was first generation Norwegian, her parents having migrated here individually, landed in a Norwegian neighborhood in NYC, met and married.

I feel Norwegian with every fiber of my being. I observed and learned the Norwegian approach to life. "Stoic" doesn't begin to describe me. Relatedly, I've had people ask me if I'm from Minnasota, even though I have never visisted there, and certainly do not have the accent. I just feel very, very connected.

[j.griff]

I'm just plain white, and it doesn't matter to me. I might feel differently if I were of a different heritage. I agree though, about the pride thing. It's not something a person has accomplished, I'm not "proud" to be an American- it just happens to be the place I was born. <shrug>. My husband is in the Navy, and I'm not "proud" of that either. He chose to join the Navy to support his family- that's commendable, honorable, etc. but it's not something that "I" chose for us, kwim?

[elegantlion]

My heritage as an American is important to me. Most of my ancestors have been here since before America was a country, from the Mayflower on.

However, most of them hailed from the British Isles, including Ireland. I recently discovered my ancestors and my dh's ancestors were in the same county in Ireland at the same time.

My dh's heritage is Irish, German, & Dutch. His name is very Irish and we consider today a major holiday, although we gave up on green beer a long time ago. :D

[Tracey in TX]

I believe we're a part of our past and the present. The sacrifices and lives our ancestors led impacts who we are and why we live in our respective countries.
Both DH & I served in USAF and are staunchly American. But we're also citizens of the world. In order to have any hopes of peace (someday) we need to at least understand other people's cultures and try to work with--or around--those cultures to thrive in a global environment. We can't alienate ourselves any longer.
I'm proud to be of European descendant and raise our children with the appreciation. I don't wave the EU flag/s, though.

[Momto4kids]

really just proud to be an American. I was brought up to be proud of being Irish as well. I like to say I am Irish. Ultimately it has no bearing on who I am as a person. I guess it is interesting to me to know where some of my ancestors come from and what they went through to become Americans.

[Jenny in Atl]

For me, I'm not so sure it's pride, but more a case of loving history, being fascinated about where I come from, where my family has traveled. I actually am just as interested in where others come forasmuch as my own "ethnic" roots. I wish I could hear the stories of those who have come before us. For most of my life I have felt tribe-less, without a culture, and I guess I still do.

[melissel]

I've been following the ethnicity threads with interest. I really don't identify with that line of thinking at all, and it makes me wonder if I'm just odd or is it that important to people?
I guess I'm especially thinking of the people who say they're 1/8 or less of some nationality. Does it have any bearing on who you are? I've likewise been kind of confused about shirts that say "XYZ and Proud." I usually reserve pride for something that I've accomplished or contributed to. Your ethnic background is merely genetic makeup for which you can take no credit. It's not as if you chose well when you decided to be (fill in the blank.)

I'm honestly not meaning to be snarky. Truly. It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on and it comes to mind on a day like St. Patrick's Day so I thought I could get some good input here.

Anj, I've always felt the same way. I'm happy to be an American, and I love this country, but I wouldn't say I was proud of it. I had very little to do with becoming an American--it was an accident of birth! I'm supremely grateful that I was born here, though. My heritage is more Italian than anything else, but again, I'm not "Italian and Proud" or anything. I think it's fascinating, and I enjoy studying the culture (and eating the food *slurp*), but not really more so than any other culture.

Now, my DH is very proud of his Puerto Rican and Dominican heritage, and he and I have often had this debate. I ask him why he's proud of his heritage, considering that he's lived here his whole life and has only been to visit both PR twice and DR once, when he was a child. He says he just is--that it makes him who he is. I say that his strong, amazing mom and the New York City culture are what made him who he is, but he disagrees. The same way he strongly disagrees with the majority of the practices and thinking that make the Catholic religion different from many other Christian religions, yet he still identifies himself as a strong, proud Catholic :confused:

I don't know the answer, but I've always felt the same way you do. I'll be following this thread with interest!

[Lorna in the boonies]

I'm about as mutt-y as they come, and it doesn't matter a bit to me.:001_smile:

[GothicGyrl]

I consider myself to be first and foremost an American, though. I love this country so much and feel so strongly that it is home, that I actually get homesick when we take a daytrip into Canada.

I'll probably get yet another ding for saying this but..

I don't consider myself American. I don't have pride in this country (but before I get ripped, I do have pride in the military--the two are not mutally exclusive--due to nearly every family member being in the military), I've never felt like I "belong" here. Ever. And my mom used to think that so funny because only my grandmother's parents (and probably somewhere way down the line on dad's side) came over on the boat. From my maternal grandmother on down--everyone was born here.

I've just never felt like I belong in this country, but it is hard for me to articulate. I don't feel American, I don't believe American, and I certainly do not have faith in this country any more. Now if you are going to neg. rep me for that, have the courage to sign your name. Otherwise, well--nevermind.

What I am saying fits in with the thread. And I'll answer it before it is said--if I could leave, I would. In a hot minute.

[PrairieAir]

I don't care much about it. I'm an American above all else. It is interesting to learn about my ancestors and where they came from, though.

We've had a lot of fun attending the Scottish festivals and ds' Highland dance events. Since we couldn't find an affordable kilt in the Ferguson tartan, we picked McLeod which is somewhere in our family line also. Dd's Westie is named Hamish Fergus Madadh with the Fergus as a nod to my mom's family.

Dh is 1/4 Italian and his mom's family is very in touch with their roots. Dh probably cares less about that sort of thing than I do, though.

Dh and I both have some German ancestry. I took German in high school because it was the only foreign language offered, but I enjoyed it more knowing that I had some tie to it. Dh's grandmother still makes peppernuts every year for Christmas, though she does not identify it as being a German thing and didn't know the word pfefferneuse until I told her.

My family, and possible dh's, also has some Irish heritage. St. Patrick's Day is a fun day to celebrate that.

I don't think we have any particular pride in our where our ancestors came from, just an interest. I have the same interest in learning about other countries and cultures. I just find that sort of thing fascinating.

[Mekanamom]

Well, as I said in the other thread, I don't have much faith in genealogical records (birth certificates, etc.). ;)

But I think actual genetic history is very interesting! Yeah, I'd love to know my ethnicity, but I doubt it would make me feel any differently... just curious.

Edited to add more info: My curiosity is really focused on the biological genetic information. Of course there is a difference between "race" and "culture". I shouldn't have used the term "ethnicity" above, as that term (generally) incorporates both factors (among others).

I think a lot of people could benefit from having a little more genetic information.

[Tammy]

and then....I bet you would come back and have a better attitude!

[*anj*]

What I am saying fits in with the thread. And I'll answer it before it is said--if I could leave, I would. In a hot minute.

Okay, now I'm hijacking my own thread, but...
Where would you prefer to live? That is not being voiced in an antagonistic way at all, it doesn't matter to me, I am not threatened by the fact that you'd rather live elsewhere...I'm just curious...you know like if you were sitting across the table from me and you said something provocative like that I'd say "Really? Where would you go?"

[Whisperlily]

I believe we're a part of our past and the present. The sacrifices and lives our ancestors led impacts who we are and why we live in our respective countries.
Both DH & I served in USAF and are staunchly American. But we're also citizens of the world. In order to have any hopes of peace (someday) we need to at least understand other people's cultures and try to work with--or around--those cultures to thrive in a global environment. We can't alienate ourselves any longer.
I'm proud to be of European descendant and raise our children with the appreciation. I don't wave the EU flag/s, though.

I really agree with this. Although I am proud to be an American, I am not the kind of person to think that our country is somehow superior and others don't matter. In fact, I think one of the things I mean about being "proud" isn't really "pride" as much as a vested interest. I CARE about how our country is run. I CARE about how "we" act in the global environment. I am saddened when "my country" makes choices that I disagree with. The world is a wide and rich place, and I feel that it is very important to understand that our culture isn't the only one. Our ways are not always the "right" ways, just "our" ways.

Sorry for the ramble... just needed to get that out. ;)

[Momto4kids]

I'll probably get yet another ding for saying this but..

I don't consider myself American. I don't have pride in this country (but before I get ripped, I do have pride in the military--the two are not mutally exclusive--due to nearly every family member being in the military), I've never felt like I "belong" here. Ever. And my mom used to think that so funny because only my grandmother's parents (and probably somewhere way down the line on dad's side) came over on the boat. From my maternal grandmother on down--everyone was born here.

I've just never felt like I belong in this country, but it is hard for me to articulate. I don't feel American, I don't believe American, and I certainly do not have faith in this country any more. Now if you are going to neg. rep me for that, have the courage to sign your name. Otherwise, well--nevermind.

What I am saying fits in with the thread. And I'll answer it before it is said--if I could leave, I would. In a hot minute.


Where would you rather live? And also have you ever lived somewhere else to make you feel this way about not wanting to live here? (Hope that made sense.)

[j.griff]

Well, I may get flamed also, LOL- ITA with GG on this. I'd personally rather live in Australia or New Zealand.

[Antonia]

I've never felt like I "belong" here. Ever. And my mom used to think that so funny because only my grandmother's parents (and probably somewhere way down the line on dad's side) came over on the boat. From my maternal grandmother on down--everyone was born here.



My aunt identifies so strongly with our Italian heritage, she actually began weeping on a flight to Italy when the pilot informed the passengers that they were over Italian airspace. My uncle had to physically put her on the plane home; she was refusing to leave her "homeland".

I love the idea of this country, and the geography of the county itself, the physical beauty. Do I love our government and the road we are on? NO.

[Scarlett]

Well, I may get flamed also, LOL- ITA with GG on this. I'd personally rather live in Australia or New Zealand.

Why? And same as Anj, this is asked with totally no antagonism, because I am not political and I don't care. I just wonder what you would have in those two countries that you don't have here. Is there less crime? Smog? I'm being very serious here....If someone asked me where in the entire world I wanted to live, I would just have no idea...I know so little about the rest of the world and mostly I just want to be near my loved ones. So I'm curious.

[j.griff]

Those places just call me, :D I don't know if I could explain it or not. It just "feels" right to me. I've not been able to even visit yet though, LOL- those are my top two destinations for travel though. Some day. I've told my dh that I want to move to Australia when he's retired and we can afford it. My oldest wants to live in Ireland some day.

[Sarah CB]

I don't find it important at all. It's so far back that no one remembers. I'm Canadian and that has a lot more meaning to me than my ethnic background.

[Tammy]

and you have NEVER been there, LOL! Sometimes places aren't always how they 'seem' LOL!

I lived in the Bahamas for 3 years....thinking I am going to 'paradise'.....well....I couldn't wait to leave, LOL!

[GothicGyrl]

You should live in another country.....so you can compare....
and then....I bet you would come back and have a better attitude!

That's a huge assumption Tammy and one I know I can say "Doubtful" to. I'm sorry you don't understand why I feel this way, but that's it--I feel this way.

Where would you prefer to live? That is not being voiced in an antagonistic way at all, it doesn't matter to me, I am not threatened by the fact that you'd rather live elsewhere...I'm just curious...you know like if you were sitting across the table from me and you said something provocative like that I'd say "Really? Where would you go?"

Anj and Scarlett and to whomever else asks: It would be anywhere BUT here. Emotion wise, like J.griff, I identify with Australia/New Zealand. Heritage wise, I identify with the Italian side of me. But I also identfy heavily with the British (the welsh side of my family does have some lineage there).

As for the "why" for those countries--it really is hard to say. This truly isn't a "grass is greener" situation because there is no perfect country. But there is something about them that makes me identify heavily with them, more so than here. I really cannot put my finger on it, but given the opportunity and finances, you better believe I'd go to one of them. I've also toyed with the idea of Canada.

I love the idea of this country, and the geography of the county itself, the physical beauty. Do I love our government and the road we are on? NO.

And there are so many countries that are more beautiful, have richer history and better geography, than here. Like I said, this is just how I feel--detached, like I do not belong here. I do cry at the sight of other places because while America has some unspoiled beauty, the majority of it is very spoiled.

I used to tease that if the Amish allowed technology(which I know some sects do), I'd be one. Because it is simple. Because it is true beauty, simplified. Unspoiled. I think that's what draws me elsewhere.

[Crissy]

My heritage is incredibly interesting to me. I have had quite a time just recently discovering things about my great-grandfather's family that I'd never know.
I must say, though, that I would probably feel the same level of interest even if I'd not been related to the man. The details of one's life from so many years ago is fascinating to me.

All that to say, while I find it interesting, I don't feel an importance in being Irish or German (although, it probably explains all the alcohol http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/10.gif). I feel much more Pacific Northwestern. http://bestsmileys.com/umbrellas/6.gif

[GothicGyrl]

and you have NEVER been there, LOL! Sometimes places aren't always how they 'seem' LOL!

I lived in the Bahamas for 3 years....thinking I am going to 'paradise'.....well....I couldn't wait to leave, LOL!
I really wish you'd stop judging those of us who feel differently than you do. It's bordering on offensive. One does NOT have to have lived there to "just know". I have extensively researched these places, ALL facets of these places and I KNOW what I am speaking about, getting in to and looking forward to. I really wish you'd stop with the assumption that we don't know what we speak of, just because we've never been.

[j.griff]

I know that places may not be what they "seem", :D It's really hard for people who don't feel the same way, to understand someone else's feelings on the subject.

[j.griff]

That's a huge assumption Tammy and one I know I can say "Doubtful" to. I'm sorry you don't understand why I feel this way, but that's it--I feel this way.



Anj and Scarlett and to whomever else asks: It would be anywhere BUT here. Emotion wise, like J.griff, I identify with Australia/New Zealand. Heritage wise, I identify with the Italian side of me. But I also identfy heavily with the British (the welsh side of my family does have some lineage there).

As for the "why" for those countries--it really is hard to say. This truly isn't a "grass is greener" situation because there is no perfect country. But there is something about them that makes me identify heavily with them, more so than here. I really cannot put my finger on it, but given the opportunity and finances, you better believe I'd go to one of them. I've also toyed with the idea of Canada.



And there are so many countries that are more beautiful, have richer history and better geography, than here. Like I said, this is just how I feel--detached, like I do not belong here. I do cry at the sight of other places because while America has some unspoiled beauty, the majority of it is very spoiled.

I used to tease that if the Amish allowed technology(which I know some sects do), I'd be one. Because it is simple. Because it is true beauty, simplified. Unspoiled. I think that's what draws me elsewhere.


That pretty much sums it up for me too. (except for the Italian heritage part :D ). And this isn't something *I* am interested in "debating". My feelings are my own, period. I don't need to "justify" them or "prove" the validity of them to anyone. My feelings are valid because they are *my* *feelings*. :)

[Jenny in Atl]

Twice as hard when you come from a whole family who feels this way (not attached to any one place)... both sides! :willy_nilly:

[astrid]

If it's the way she feels, she's entitled to that. It's not YOUR attitude, but it's certainly valid.

And honestly, the more I read about our country endorsing torture, the less proud of my citizenship I become.

[Jill, OK]

I've always perked up when I've heard interesting stories about my forebears, I like much of the music that's attached to some of my ethnicity, at least one of my kids is interested in learning some of the language...

But I feel Oklahoman, more than anything.

Southwesterner, if you want to be less specific.

This is where I feel the tie, this is what I feel 'fits' me. The people, the idea, the way of life...all of it.

I've lived in some beautiful places (Oklahoma is not that physically beautiful, lol), and I've always been rarin' to go, when we've moved somewhere new, but...this is my home. This is where we planned to come back to, all along, and now that we're here...I can sigh with relief. ::Sigh::

:001_smile:

[j.griff]

:ohmy:Wow, what hostility. What is the "attitude" that needs to become "better"?
:blink: :thumbdown:

[GothicGyrl]

If it's the way she feels, she's entitled to that. It's not YOUR attitude, but it's certainly valid.

And honestly, the more I read about our country endorsing torture, the less proud of my citizenship I become.


Nevermind, I figured it out. :)

[j.griff]

GG, I believe she was asking tammy what is wrong with your attitude, :D

[GothicGyrl]

GG, I believe she was asking tammy what is wrong with your attitude, :D


Yeah, I figured it out. :D

[RebeccaC]

Well I am proud to be an American mutt :D

However I have two family stories that might be interesting. First when my Norwegian grandfather came over he wanted and American name sooooo he stood outside a theater and shook hands with the first man out and asked his name which was a Scottish name and that was the name he went by for the rest of his life. He did not teach my dad Norwegian or fellowship with Norwegians. When he was 90 he told my dad this is my real name and where I was from and this was the names of my mother, father, sisters and brother. When he came to America he came to be an American and cut all ties with his family. We found out that there still was family on the family farm in Norway and that his sisters had all come to America and one lived 45 minutes south and west of my grandfather and died wondering what had happened to him. I will forever be grateful that he did this because his surname was Hogastande and going through public school was bad enough and just the idea of doing it with that last name makes me shutter. The sad part was he was the last male with that last name so it is gone.

The story is from my mother's side of the family has to do with when they were taking names for the Indian rolls in OK. Both great great grandparents were half breeds as were my great grandparents but the great great declined to be put on the rolls due to their Christian beliefs. Their feelings were if we are going to be Christian then we will live like the Christian majority. They had siblings who joined the rolls but they did not. I don't know if that was a good idea or not but it was their choice and they did better in life than the siblings who joined the rolls.

[Scarlett]

However I have two family stories that might be interesting. First when my Norwegian grandfather He did not teach my dad Norwegian or fellowship with Norwegians. When he was 90 he told my dad this is my real name and where I was from and this was the names of my mother, father, sisters and brother. When he came to America he came to be an American and cut all ties with his family. We found out that there still was family on the family farm in Norway and that his sisters had all come to America and one lived 45 minutes south and west of my grandfather and died wondering what had happened to him.

How interesting! What a mystery though. Did you ever find out WHY he cut all ties with his family?

[Tammy]

Well....I think having a bad attitude about your country (when you are living there) isn't such a great thing...I never said she couldn't feel the way she wants.....sorry you took offense....

[Scarlett]

But I feel Oklahoman, more than anything.


I've lived in some beautiful places (Oklahoma is not that physically beautiful, lol), and I've always been rarin' to go, when we've moved somewhere new, but...this is my home. This is where we planned to come back to, all along, and now that we're here...I can sigh with relief. ::Sigh::

:001_smile:

This is how I feel about my home. Thankfully, the part of Arkansas I live in is very beautiful. I imagine though, even if I lived on the flat prairies of OK, I'd love it if that is where I was raised and where my family lived.

[j.griff]

How is not agreeing with your govt., not liking the goegraphical location in which you happen to live (due to where you were born, where your job/dh's job is, etc.) mean you have a bad attitude? I don't understand.

[astrid]

who arrived in this country from another had a bad attitude about their country; that's part of why they came here.

I think it's those of us who are not satisfied with the status quo, who disagree and engage in discourse and work to change things are true patriots. Isn't that what this country was founded on? Not just blind faith in leadership with which the majority disagreed?

Wow.....now let's watch my negative rep points come flyin' in! ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I really wish you'd stop judging those of us who feel differently than you do. It's bordering on offensive. One does NOT have to have lived there to "just know". I have extensively researched these places, ALL facets of these places and I KNOW what I am speaking about, getting in to and looking forward to. I really wish you'd stop with the assumption that we don't know what we speak of, just because we've never been.

I'll preface this by saying that there is no judgment in what I say. However, I *do* think you are unfairly judging *this* country if you haven't lived in any others. I lived in Germany and traveled Europe long enough to see good and bad. Yes, Germany has socialized medicine and great roads. They pay moms to stay at home, subsidize the trains, force people to recycle and many other things but those *all* come with drawbacks, especially the fact they pay a *huge* portion of their wages in taxes. When we lived there the gas tax was *enormous* and gas was over $6 a gallon and that was 6 years ago. They pay taxes on everything, even their furniture. There is still plenty of poverty and moms who have baby after baby to take advantage of the kindergeld system (*many* of them where we lived starting at 15 or 16 and dropping out of school). They don't have great laws restricting companies. There was a tire company in the town we lived in (not really even near us) and everything we owned was constantly covered in a black film. Living *anywhere* has good and bad points. It's not an assumption to think you don't *really* know if you haven't lived anywhere else, it's a fact. If you want to live elsewhere, that's fine by me. I've loved our experiences of living all over the US and in Europe. You won't hear me telling you not to do it. However, I will agree with Tammy that you can't understand what it means to live in another country unless you've done it.

[RebeccaC]

How interesting! What a mystery though. Did you ever find out WHY he cut all ties with his family?

His story was he wanted to become and American. His sisters kids tho told us after he passed that his mother was very controlling and after his dad died he wanted his own life so he ran off. He was a minor when he did this and did not want to be sent back to his mother so he changed his name and had nothing to do with anyone Norwegian.

[Tammy]

Give me a break, Toni. All I said was it is very hard to really know a place unless you have lived there. I never said she didn't know what she was talking about.....

And I gave MY example....and I did a lot of research also....

[Scarlett]

I lived in the Bahamas for 3 years....thinking I am going to 'paradise'.....well....I couldn't wait to leave, LOL!

Just curious...why were you so anxious to leave? And where in Bahamas...city or remote island?

[Closeacademy]

I have an interesting and colorful family history so I enjoy taking pride in it. My father spent several years putting together informatin on his side and my uncle has worked for years on my mom's side of the family.

I could almost teach history using the notes and stories about people in our family tree and the stuff they did. :)

[GothicGyrl]

Well....I think having a bad attitude about your country (when you are living there) isn't such a great thing...I never said she couldn't feel the way she wants.....sorry you took offense....
How about "stop being offensive" for starters?

Mollys--I've received a neg rep for giving an ASKED FOR opinion in the thread about checking computer history--they said "Highly accusatory"--now how does that make sense when the OP SAID she suspected something?

And just to counter--I think assuming we all should have perfectly happy lovely attitude about where we live is highly presumptuous of you.

[Mrs Mungo]

I didn't really realize the thread has taken such a negative turn while I was typing. I agree a *little* with nearly everyone. I *do* think not being happy with the status quo and working for change is the sign of a patriot. I just also agree with Tammy and furthermore think many Americans have idealized versions of other places in their heads that don't mesh with reality.

[Jenny in Atl]

Sometimes it's not that one has a bad feeling about the place they come from... it's just wanderlust. Some like to venture and some like to hang out, stay close to home.

[j.griff]

Sometimes it's not that one has a bad feeling about the place they come from... it's just wanderlust. Some like to venture and some like to hang out, stay close to home.

:iagree:

[Tammy]

you couldn't 'disagree' about certain things about your country...really I didn't, LOL!

Toni just seemed to really dislike the US...and I just found it odd that she hasn't lived in another country....she can feel any way she wants...

Many people will comment about the US having been to other places....

[GothicGyrl]

I'll preface this by saying that there is no judgment in what I say. However, I *do* think you are unfairly judging *this* country if you haven't lived in any others. I lived in Germany and traveled Europe long enough to see good and bad. Yes, Germany has socialized medicine and great roads. They pay moms to stay at home, subsidize the trains, force people to recycle and many other things but those *all* come with drawbacks, especially the fact they pay a *huge* portion of their wages in taxes. When we lived there the gas tax was *enormous* and gas was over $6 a gallon and that was 6 years ago. They pay taxes on everything, even their furniture. There is still plenty of poverty and moms who have baby after baby to take advantage of the kindergeld system (*many* of them where we lived starting at 15 or 16 and dropping out of school). They don't have great laws restricting companies. There was a tire company in the town we lived in (not really even near us) and everything we owned was constantly covered in a black film. Living *anywhere* has good and bad points. It's not an assumption to think you don't *really* know if you haven't lived anywhere else, it's a fact. If you want to live elsewhere, that's fine by me. I've loved our experiences of living all over the US and in Europe. You won't hear me telling you not to do it. However, I will agree with Tammy that you can't understand what it means to live in another country unless you've done it.
While I see your point, I still disagree. That you've lived elsewhere only means you've got some experience I don't. That doesn't mean my opinion is invalid simply because I've not lived elsewhere. Nor does it mean I am "unfairly judging" this country.

I can't unfarily judge a country I LIVE IN. I know this country stinks, that may not be your opinion or belief and that's fine--it is mine. And because of that, I CAN say I'd rather live elsewhere.

Now if you want to take up a collection to get me out of here--by all means, please. :) The sooner the better, IMHO. ;)

[Scarlett]

How about "stop being offensive" for starters?

Ouch. Is this beat up on Tammy day? I didn't read her post as presumptious or offensive. I read it as, 'the grass is not always greener and you might like your country of birth better once you've tried something different.'

[Tammy]

Toni....I really wasn't meaning to be offensive....I am giving my opinion just as you are....

[*anj*]

I didn't really realize the thread has taken such a negative turn while I was typing.
I'm really bummed that it's taking such a negative turn, because I have really enjoyed hearing from people.
Can we try to keep it from getting locked down? Please?

To quote the not so late, not so great Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"
:o

[Tammy]

nt

[j.griff]

Okie Dokie. Your post just sounded really harsh and judgemental, IMO. And, just because you've had a neg. experience living elsewhere doesn't make that "true" for others, KWIM?

[j.griff]

While I see your point, I still disagree. That you've lived elsewhere only means you've got some experience I don't. That doesn't mean my opinion is invalid simply because I've not lived elsewhere. Nor does it mean I am "unfairly judging" this country.

I can't unfarily judge a country I LIVE IN. I know this country stinks, that may not be your opinion or belief and that's fine--it is mine. And because of that, I CAN say I'd rather live elsewhere.

Now if you want to take up a collection to get me out of here--by all means, please. :) The sooner the better, IMHO. ;)

:iagree: and I'm :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5: at that last line. :D

[Mrs Mungo]

While I see your point, I still disagree. That you've lived elsewhere only means you've got some experience I don't. That doesn't mean my opinion is invalid simply because I've not lived elsewhere. Nor does it mean I am "unfairly judging" this country.

I can't unfarily judge a country I LIVE IN. I know this country stinks, that may not be your opinion or belief and that's fine--it is mine. And because of that, I CAN say I'd rather live elsewhere.

OK, if that's your response, I'm not expressing myself clearly. I'm not saying you have no right to dislike aspects of the country you live in. I'm saying I think it's unfair to say other countries are *better* when you've never lived in them. You might think everywhere stinks and that's you right but it's not fair to make a judgment that someplace else is a better place to live unless you've tried it out.

Now if you want to take up a collection to get me out of here--by all means, please. :) The sooner the better, IMHO. ;)

Have you looked into overseas jobs? We knew tons of ex-pats working overseas when we lived in Europe.

[Scarlett]

I'm really bummed that it's taking such a negative turn, because I have really enjoyed hearing from people.
Can we try to keep it from getting locked down? Please?

To quote the not so late, not so great Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"
:o

Amen! (I would have slung you some rep for this post, but I'm out for the day!)

[GothicGyrl]

Ouch. Is this beat up on Tammy day? I didn't read her post as presumptious or offensive. I read it as, 'the grass is not always greener and you might like your country of birth better once you've tried something different.'

One could ask the same of me--but I digress. NO this is not beat up on Tammy day. It's "Tammy stop assuming that we don't know what we are talking about just because we've not lived elsewhere. It isn't a matter of "the grass is greener"; it's a matter of truly feeling I do not belong. That you don't understand that, I can't help. But I DO NOT BELONG HERE and that's that. If I could change it, I would."

Tammy--fine, you weren't meaning to be offensive, but you did come across that way by assuming I've got wanderlust or as it was put "the grass is greener" syndrome.

I DO NOT. I DO NOT. I want out. Out now if I could. I hate Florida and always have and I do not like living in this country any more. And no, I do not think this country will become appealing to me once I've lived elsewhere. There is nothing appealing about this country anymore. And that's just my opinion, my belief.

Ding me all you want. I can't explain it and I don't expect anyone to understand.

[Mrs Mungo]

Okie Dokie. Your post just sounded really harsh and judgemental, IMO. And, just because you've had a neg. experience living elsewhere doesn't make that "true" for others, KWIM?

Oh, my experience *wasn't* negative, not at ALL. I just see that there is *bad* as well as *good*, just like in the US. I'd take another tour in Germany in a heartbeat, we loved it.

[Scarlett]

You might think everywhere stinks and that's you right but it's not fair to make a judgment that someplace else is a better place to live unless you've tried it out.

:iagree:

[Tammy]

I was in Freeport. The service (doctors, restaurants) industry was terrible. You couldn't buy frozen food from the grocery stores since they let it thaw before putting it in the freezer. There were no major stores to puchase things like a Walmart, Home Depot, etc. There was nothing to do there but go to the beach..... Prices for EVERYTHING were outrageous.

If you walked into a restaurant....I never got the feeling like they gave one crap if you were there, LOL! I found most people in the service industry rude....

Well I will stop now....LOL!

[GothicGyrl]

Have you looked into overseas jobs? We knew tons of ex-pats working overseas when we lived in Europe.

(to turn the frown upside down)--- I have looked in to it. DH has considered teaching overseas many times as the rules are not as stringent as they are here(by that I mean they have a different set of rules that DH has already fulfilled).

The only thing holding us here is money. Money to move. That's it. And it would probably be to Canada before it is anywhere else.

(there, now let's all sing happy songs)

[j.griff]

Oh, my experience *wasn't* negative, not at ALL. I just see that there is *bad* as well as *good*, just like in the US. I'd take another tour in Germany in a heartbeat, we loved it.

Sorry, I need to remember to use quotes in all my replies, :D
I was referring to Tammy's post about wanting to leave (was it the Bahamas?). Sorry for the confusion.

[Mrs. Readsalot]

Yes it is fun to research our family tree but, I think of myself as an American. What different countries my ancestors came from doesn't matter much to me. I figure they left there for here and stayed so here must have been better for them.

[j.griff]

(there, now let's all sing happy songs)

K. I am now humming The Smurfs theme song. :lol:
Now I have to go start my playlist so I can get it out of my head.

[Mrs Mungo]

(to turn the frown upside down)--- I have looked in to it. DH has considered teaching overseas many times as the rules are not as stringent as they are here(by that I mean they have a different set of rules that DH has already fulfilled).

The only thing holding us here is money. Money to move. That's it. And it would probably be to Canada before it is anywhere else.

(there, now let's all sing happy songs)

Would he consider starting out with a DoD teaching job? I believe they will pay for your move, that's how many of the ex-pats *I* knew got there in the first place then moved to different jobs when they had fulfilled their contracts.

[astrid]

living abroad is a prerequisite for expressing displeasure with one's place of residence.

To draw a COMPARISON, perhaps. But to just express discontent? I don't see the connection.

[Scarlett]

It's stop assuming that we don't know what we are talking about just because we've not lived elsewhere. It isn't a matter of "the grass is greener"; it's a matter of truly feeling I do not belong. That you don't understand that, I can't help. But I DO NOT BELONG HERE and that's that. If I could change it, I would."

Two different issues here Toni. One you don't feel like you belong in this country. Got it. Understand it. The other is you are saying you would like it better somewhere else. I think several of us are just saying 'maybe, maybe not' and how can you know for sure if you've never lived any where else?

And FWIW, there are vast differences in ways of life across the country you were born in. Most of FL, for the working class like you and me at least, seems horrid to me. If you hate it there, why not pack up and move to another part of the country? That might be easier to try than leaving the country completely. Teachers are in demand in many parts of the country. Your dh could get a job nearly anywhere.

[Tammy]

that most people notice when returning to the states (after being in Freeport, I am talking about our friends)....was it took about 3 times longer to shop in the grocery stores....since you have so many CHOICES. In Freeport.....you didn't have NEAR the variety as you did here!

[Mrs Mungo]

living abroad is a prerequisite for expressing displeasure with one's place of residence.

To draw a COMPARISON, perhaps. But to just express discontent? I don't see the connection.

I may have made this more clear in my other posts (I know this thread is moving fast and I have this stupid laptop keyboard that I can't type on) but I'm not saying you cannot express discontent or disagreement with US policies or whatever. I was responding to GG's assertion that she would like it better somewhere else. Maybe it would stink as well, you never know.

[GothicGyrl]

that most people notice when returning to the states (after being in Freeport, I am talking about our friends)....was it took about 3 times longer to shop in the grocery stores....since you have so many CHOICES. In Freeport.....you didn't have NEAR the variety as you did here!
shopping time is inconsequential to me. :) I take a long time no matter where I shop.

Two different issues here Toni. One you don't feel like you belong in this country. Got it. Understand it. The other is you are saying you would like it better somewhere else. I think several of us are just saying 'maybe, maybe not' and how can you know for sure if you've never lived any where else?

And FWIW, there are vast differences in ways of life across the country you were born in. Most of FL, for the working class like you and me at least, seems horrid to me. If you hate it there, why not pack up and move to another part of the country? That might be easier to try than leaving the country completely. Teachers are in demand in many parts of the country. Your dh could get a job nearly anywhere.

Been there done that. I HAVE lived in 2 other states aside from Florida and DH has lived in 6. Neither of us are happy with what we've seen. So yes, I do have a bit of knowledge wence I speak. I'm not just blowing bubbles here. ;) (and none of where we lived overlaps--I've lived 2 different places that he's never lived and he's lived 6 places I've never lived--so that's 8 states total, might not seem like much..)

And as molly's mom said:I just don't think that living abroad is a prerequisite for expressing displeasure with one's place of residence.

Mrs. Mungo:
Would he consider starting out with a DoD teaching job? I believe they will pay for your move, that's how many of the ex-pats *I* knew got there in the first place then moved to different jobs when they had fulfilled their contracts.

I'm not sure what a DoD (dept. of defense?) teaching job is. However, if you've got a link, I'll definitely check it out. ;)

[OnTheBrink]

I enjoy seeing where my ancestors come from. It's fun to see how families have migrated through the world and interesting to see how my parent's families have taken similar migratory routes before their paths crossed. It's frustrating to know my grandfather's history is lost due to the fact he was orphaned and there is no paper trail on him, but we do know he was Scottish. I wish I knew more about his past.

I have no real cultural connection with any particular ethnicity. I sometimes wish I did, as our family really doesn't have any traditions to pass down. I feel very connected to the US. We have documentation that the first person in my lineage arrived in the US in 1649 and I have direct ancestors in every major war the US has fought. I feel proud of my connections here, like I belong. That doesn't mean I agree with the government a lot or that I think everything the US does is the right thing. But I love this country and I'm proud to be a part of it, good or bad.

[j.griff]

The other is you are saying you would like it better somewhere else. I think several of us are just saying 'maybe, maybe not' and how can you know for sure if you've never lived any where else?



GG has stated before (I didn't count how many times) that this is not a "grass is greener" type thing. It's just how we feel. And, I personally believe that we would feel much more at peace being in the country that we feel "called" to, than having to stay where we are. Of course there is always a "possibility" that there "may" be things there that would drive us insane. Circumstances are circumstantial after all :D I find it un-necessary to hear from everyone that we "may" be wrong. I'm not "offended" by it, unless it sounds plain rude (you need a better attitude! type posts), but it's grating on the nerves none-the-less.
Analogy: PSing family insists that you never know if HSing is "better" than PSing unless you put the kids in PS. You just don't "know" what you are missing by sending the kids to school unless you've tried it. You don't "know" that homeschooling is best unless you've actually had then enrolled in a PS as a comparison. (and I'm not interested in debating Whether or not anyone thinks my analogy "fits" the circumstances or not. Of COURSE it's not the "same", LOL, it's an *analogy*)

[astrid]

Tammy's assertion that it was somehow "un-American" (my term, not hers) to "have a bad attitude about your country when living here." (her words)

I said that to make an accurate comparison, of course. But not to express an opinion.

But apparently I was being "highly combative." I'm certain I've never been characterized as such in my life! :tongue_smilie:

[Momto4kids]

I want out. Out now if I could. I hate Florida and always have and I do not like living in this country any more. And no, I do not think this country will become appealing to me once I've lived elsewhere. There is nothing appealing about this country anymore. And that's just my opinion, my belief.




I guess my question would be, where do you think you belong? And how do you know it if you have never been there? Just asking, no negative thoughts flying your way.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm not sure what a DoD (dept. of defense?) teaching job is. However, if you've got a link, I'll definitely check it out. ;)

DoD is Department of Defense, yes.

teaching jobs overseas:
http://www.state.gov/www/about_state/schools/oteaching.html


http://www.state.gov/m/a/os/c16899.htm

teaching in dodea (department of defense education activity) schools:
http://www.dodea.edu/offices/hr/onlineapplication/default.htm

If your hubby stays in the dodea system he'd be eligible for federal retirement, nothing to sneeze at. Plus, (it depends on the Status of Forces Agreement, branch of the military and particular post but..) at some posts/bases you're eligible for perks like use of the commissary, gas coupons (so you aren't paying the gas tax) and such.

[Elm in NJ]

Only when I moved to England did I realise that being black was something different. But it didn't matter much because I had a very protective family. When I moved to Glasgow to do my undergrad, and I was by myself for the first time ever with no family or friends close by, then you toughen up pretty quickly. That was nearly 20 years ago though, so things are probably a lot different now.
When I went to Glasgow and Inverness 2 years ago with my now 12 year old ds, it looked a little bit like London. And I was pleasantly suprised.

My kids especially my 7 yr old twins are very innocent though when it comes to race. We were reading a history book a few days ago and they were talking about how the black people had been slaves. One of the poor sweet things asked who were the black people they were talking about. And my 12 year old told him 'us'. And the darling said ' But we are not black, we are brown'. And I thought to myself, "Go out in the real world in a few years and all that innocence will soon disappear". Of course, if he was at public school, it would have long since disappeared.

In the doctor's office a few days ago, 1 of the twins was asked,'What part of Africa are you from?' And he said" I am not from Africa, I am from America! My parents are from Sierra Leone, a country in Africa."

To answer the question, I never thought about ethnicity before. I was like my twins. Now, I think about it because it is a part of the society I live in and it gets forced down on you regularly whether you want to think about it or not. And I am proud of who I am and I am teaching my kids to be proud of who they are.

Elmeryl

[Mrs Mungo]

Tammy's assertion that it was somehow "un-American" (my term, not hers) to "have a bad attitude about your country when living here." (her words)

I said that to make an accurate comparison, of course. But not to express an opinion.

But apparently I was being "highly combative." I'm certain I've never been characterized as such in my life! :tongue_smilie:

Oh, I have, HA! I don't necessarily consider it a bad thing, either. But I'm not the one handing out bad rep because people disagree with me ;)

[GothicGyrl]

I guess my question would be, where do you think you belong? And how do you know it if you have never been there? Just asking, no negative thoughts flying your way.
Scroll up (or page one)--I've already said where.. ;) Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada.. somewhere around those parts.

And how would I know? You just do. It's that simple. A simple analogy would be "One just knows when God has placed the right person in their life". If I ever make it happen, I WILL know. The feeling will be different enough for me to know.

[GothicGyrl]

DoD is Department of Defense, yes.

teaching jobs overseas:
http://www.state.gov/www/about_state/schools/oteaching.html


http://www.state.gov/m/a/os/c16899.htm

teaching in dodea (department of defense education activity) schools:
http://www.dodea.edu/offices/hr/onlineapplication/default.htm

If your hubby stays in the dodea system he'd be eligible for federal retirement, nothing to sneeze at. Plus, (it depends on the Status of Forces Agreement, branch of the military and particular post but..) at some posts/bases you're eligible for perks like use of the commissary, gas coupons (so you aren't paying the gas tax) and such.
Doesn't he have to be armed forces? Or is this one of those "military civilian" jobs? He wouldn't make it in the armed forces because he's asthmatic. But civilian--that's what this is, right?

[Mamagistra]

And the darling said ' But we are not black, we are brown'. And I thought to myself, "Go out in the real world in a few years and all that innocence will soon disappear". Of course, if he was at public school, it would have long since disappeared.

In the doctor's office a few days ago, 1 of the twins was asked,'What part of Africa are you from?' And he said" I am not from Africa, I am from America! My parents are from Sierra Leone, a country in Africa."

And I am proud of who I am and I am teaching my kids to be proud of who they are.

That brought tears to my eyes, Elmeryl. Would that all children had such innocence about race in general. You are doing a wonderful job...what sweet kids! :)

[BMC]

as American. He said he thought his teacher was going to kiss him. :patriot:

Yes, we're proud of our heritage but we "define" ourselves as American. Our Irish (and German and Scot) ancestors came here to become American, not to stay Irish.

Without the melting pot, I feel we are weaker as a country.

:boxing_smiley: Don't get me started about hyphenated Americans! :rant:

[Mrs Mungo]

Doesn't he have to be armed forces? Or is this one of those "military civilian" jobs? He wouldn't make it in the armed forces because he's asthmatic. But civilian--that's what this is, right?

No, he doesn't have to be in the military. I don't believe any of the teachers in dodea schools are active duty military. It's a civilian job with federal perks. The military will usually move your household goods, one of your cars and all of that.

[Stacy in NJ]

I completely agree with you. One set of my grandparents came to the US in the '30's. I have no cultural identification with where they came from. I have almost nothing in common with my foreign cousins. My other set of grandparent arrived in the US prior to the Civil War. That side of my family never identifies as something-american. My children have asked me about our ethnicity. I tell them where their ancestors came from, but then emphasize the fact that we are simply "Americans". Being of an some ethnicity in America is the equivalent of cheering for a sports team. It can be fun and interesting, but it has little meaning for most in reality.

[Jenny in Atl]

Are there no ethnic groups in Sierra Leone? I know of other countries in Africa that have numerous ethnic groups (some get along and some don't). I wonder when one becomes aware, is it when you are the minority in an area, or if there is conflict, or....? I remember a friend of ours, from Italy, who talked of the regional differences and groups within groups, separated by reginal dialects and customs. He would say, those (insert area group), I can't understand what they say. Yet, they were all speaking Italian.

I wonder were we are most aware of ethnic differences. Is it "melting pot" (more like a stew) nations like the US, Indonesia, or even Great Britain?

[Daisy]

Honestly, I don't spend a ton of time thinking about it. God, in his infinite wisdom, chose to plunk me right here and so by birth, I am an American citizen. Are there better places to live? I don't know. Would I rather live somewhere else? Not really. Do I agree with all things "American"? Of course not but it is my American heritage that gives me the freedom to publically disagree. If I had to choose one identity over another I would more closely align myself with my religious identity versus my ethnic one.

I love learning about heritage but mostly because it makes history come alive. It was much more interesting for my daughter to study the Trail of Tears after looking at a photograph of our relative who was Cherokee. It was more interestig to study the Pilgrims when she discovered she was related to Constance Hopkins. There is no "pride" in that knowledge. Rather it made history a real story of a real person's life. That's all.

BTW, I didn't answer the other thread. I'm a mutt.

[Osmosis Mom]

I have been in the States for 10+ years and we just received our green cards this fall. It was a very emotional day and to my surprise I was teary (OK I cried).

That said, I always want to know where people here are from. It makes no sense to me when people say that well, they are Americans (I am now telling you my feelings and my perspectives). Well, you are American...what does that mean? To me, ethnicity is an ingrate part of one's make-up.

I was born in Denmark to a Danish mother and a Syrian father and did not know growing up that I had not been born a Danish citizen! I was a Dane, growing up with the knowledge that my family's roots went beyond the Danish borders and thus was born with openess to other cultures that many Danish kids did not have back then.

Well, in my teens I converted to Islam and in one instance I was suddenly NOT perceived as a Dane anymore (to people on the streets). Now, that was eye-opening and was the definitive for me that I did not want to raise kids in such a small, closed country. To me the world was there.

So I married and went to Japan where we lived for 7 years. In almost Paradise, materialistically speaking, crimewise etc. As a child in DK teachers would say that we kids never knew how good we had it...Well, I loved my life in DK, but certainly the world has tons more to offer!!

We then came to the States and here life is different. Opportunities are more available and depending on where you live your kids might not have to endure discrimination based upon their religious views (hint, do not live in NH as a Muslim!!!).

It is essential to me that my kids speak Danish as well as Arabic. My whole soul grew up with Danish, its language, customs, mannerisms etc. while my dad (and my husband) is Syrian. To me, it is an honor to enrich the country of America with citizens who have an international attitude to life and to humanity, who speak many languages so they hopefully can build bridges all their lives, to raise kids who understand that not every one is as privileged as they are right now. Them knowing their heritage is part of the tapestry I want them to be built of. So while I am looked upon as an outsider in DK (well, OK now there are tons more Muslims and Danish converts) and while I do not belong in Syria, then I am making a place for myself here in the States which encompasses being a part of the local community and helping others. We pay our taxes and we try to make a difference with our interactions and that to me is being an American.

[Doran]

As a mixed breed, I feel a bit disconnected from my "heritage" as it were. I've always admired those who could say, "I'm French, or I'm African." I can't, so I don't hold much stock in the mix that is me. That said, knowing that there is a Scottish plaid and a crest which by father's ancestors claimed as their own, and that my paternal grandmother was a descendent of Jefferson -- well that makes me feel like I've got some roots, you know?


http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/char124.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Doran

[Elm in NJ]

I am Creole and there are lots of other tribes. But we were all Sierra Leoneans. But I left Sierra Leone a long time ago as a teenager and so it is a bit different for me. I have lots of good memories growing up though and I was really sad when I went there 4 years ago with all 4 kids after nearly 20 years of civil war to see what was left of the country. And it was a war that had roots in ethnicity.

Elmeryl

[Colleen]

Now if you want to take up a collection to get me out of here--by all means, please. :) The sooner the better, IMHO. ;)

:D:D:D

(And hey ~ congrats on the double green squares.;))

[WagsWife]

I DO NOT. I DO NOT. I want out. Out now if I could. I hate Florida and always have and I do not like living in this country any more. And no, I do not think this country will become appealing to me once I've lived elsewhere. There is nothing appealing about this country anymore. And that's just my opinion, my belief.


So where exactly *would you want to live...and what are some of the reasons why it would be so much better?

[GothicGyrl]

So where exactly *would you want to live...and what are some of the reasons why it would be so much better?
Please read the thread, I've stated this twice now. I'm not hijacking anymore. And I'm not going into the "whys" because I've already covered that as well.

And Colleen--thanks. I'm sure by the end of the night I'll have said something "combative" to have it removed again. ;)

[Jenny in Atl]

I am Creole and there are lots of other tribes. But we were all Sierra Leoneans. But I left Sierra Leone a long time ago as a teenager and so it is a bit different for me. I have lots of good memories growing up though and I was really sad when I went there 4 years ago with all 4 kids after nearly 20 years of civil war to see what was left of the country. And it was a war that had roots in ethnicity.

Elmeryl

Humans, we are a strange lot! I had forgotten about the civil war there. It's so sad that the things we should celebrate (our customs and traditions) are also the things that tear so many of us apart. Thank you so much for sharing.

[Colleen]

It is interesting to me when people mention that they are one smidgen this ethnicity, one smidgen that ~ particularly when they have no real associations with those places. I confess, I don't understand that. In my case, my German heritage has always been very important to me. I was born in Germany, though I didn't live there long before moving to this country. My mother was born and raised there and was in her 30s and is the only one on that side to leave Germany. My father's grandparents all came from Germany. I grew up identifying strongly with Germany and I do relate that identification to my boys, who are 1/4 German ~ and 1/2 Swiss, of course.

[Daisy]

That said, I always want to know where people here are from. It makes no sense to me when people say that well, they are Americans (I am now telling you my feelings and my perspectives). Well, you are American...what does that mean? To me, ethnicity is an ingrate part of one's make-up.

LOL, Osmosis Mom, when you've been here since the 1600's, it is kinda hard to even figure out anything but "American". There is very little point in claiming anything else. Your situation and that of many other first or second generation Americans is very different. You still very much identify with another culture. The vast majority of us mutts are just American. As American as apple pie.

[WagsWife]

My family is mostly a hodge podge of European ancestry. I think it is cool that my great grandfather came over from Sweden when he was a teen, but it is not something I relate to. I think it is fascinating that he was also a Jew, but when he and my great grandmother married, they agreed that the children would be raised as Christians, so I do not identify with that either. If I was going to concentrate on one part of my ancestry it would be the Jewish connection.

My Dh's grandfather was half Cherokee. THAT I think is cool! The thought that my blond haired, blue eyed girls have American Indian in them, is amazing to me. DH though, feels no connection to American Indian culture at all...even when we we study about them or go to museums. What really baffles me, is when he would play cowboy and indians as a child, he was always the Long Ranger type cowboy. I do wish he would take more interest in that part of his family however, he will shout it to the rooftops that he is an AMERICAN!

We both are very proud to be born and raised in the United States...and that is how we identify ourselves.:patriot:

I've been following the ethnicity threads with interest. I really don't identify with that line of thinking at all, and it makes me wonder if I'm just odd or is it that important to people?
I guess I'm especially thinking of the people who say they're 1/8 or less of some nationality. Does it have any bearing on who you are? I've likewise been kind of confused about shirts that say "XYZ and Proud." I usually reserve pride for something that I've accomplished or contributed to. Your ethnic background is merely genetic makeup for which you can take no credit. It's not as if you chose well when you decided to be (fill in the blank.)

I'm honestly not meaning to be snarky. Truly. It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on and it comes to mind on a day like St. Patrick's Day so I thought I could get some good input here.

[GothicGyrl]

The vast majority of us mutts are just American. As American as apple pie.

Isn't it funny how apple pie is not American, yet we say this?
http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/PieHistory/ApplePie.htm

And I just want to say this: "American" is not a race or ethnicity. It's a Nationality. One can be Jewish without being a Jew. One can be an German-born American, but that doesn't make them German. Saying one is "American" is not saying much at all. You are a mix of all different races or ethnicities. That you were born here does not mean your ethnic identifier is "american". I was born here as well, but I AM Italian and Cuban.

To say otherwise, is denying my heritage.

[Calming Tea]

that area, ethnicity is highly important. There are German fests, Irish fests, and Italian fests. Where I lived, it was a very Catholic area and largely Irish and Italian. There were many other ethnicities as well and English last names were also very common. But it seemed like half the people were Mc something or other.

In that area, it was often a subject of discussion. We would often label our friends actions based upon their supposed stereotypical ethnicity. It was also very important in my family. My stepfather was raised in South Philly, and was an Irish man, a big huge red-faced Irish Catholic typical Irishman...thankfully he was kind and his temper was sanctified by the Holy Spirit!

My mother is from another country - Brazil. People directly from other countries also tend to talk a lot about ethnicity because they want to keep their roots and their language, and remember it fondly.

But for me, it's not important because I am a mutt. My birth father was mostly German and my mom, though from Brazil was actually 100% German- all of her grandparents were directly from Germany. But she identifies herself with Brazilians more than Germans, oddly enough.

When I think of who I am and where I'm from I think more about my home states of Pennsylvania and New Jersey and the local culture in the towns I lived in...that seemed to shape me far more than ethnicity of my ancestors...

which for information happens to be 12/16 German, 3/16 English, 1/16 Irish - but it's confusing to say that and then say my mom is Brazilian...!!

[Virginia Dawn]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate my ethnic or cultural background. But sometimes I feel like it is an unseen barrier that keeps others from easily accepting me. My husbands cousins call me "whitey" in jest. I just let it roll off, but I wonder if they have reservations about me because of my "whiteness."

I am envious of my dh. He grew up in a black and latino neighborhood. He fits in just about anywhere. He can call people "brother" and they don't think he's trying to kiss up to them. I don't think white people have the same concept of brotherhood.

[Momto4kids]

that area, ethnicity is highly important. There are German fests, Irish fests, and Italian fests. Where I lived, it was a very Catholic area and largely Irish and Italian. There were many other ethnicities as well and English last names were also very common. But it seemed like half the people were Mc something or other.




Although we grew up in the suburbs of philly. My father lived in Olney and was VERY proud of his Irish heritage and he passed that down to us too.

[Jenny in Atl]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate my ethnic or cultural background. But sometimes I feel like it is an unseen barrier that keeps others from easily accepting me. My husbands cousins call me "whitey" in jest. I just let it roll off, but I wonder if they have reservations about me because of my "whiteness."

I am envious of my dh. He grew up in a black and latino neighborhood. He fits in just about anywhere. He can call people "brother" and they don't think he's trying to kiss up to them. I don't think white people have the same concept of brotherhood.

I wanted to be an American Indian when I was little. I tired to get as tan as I could in the summer and grow my hair long and straight. Just didn't work out well. I guess I wanted to be exotic or belong to something different.

[*anj*]

that area, ethnicity is highly important. There are German fests, Irish fests, and Italian fests. Where I lived, it was a very Catholic area and largely Irish and Italian.

Have you ever gone to that huge Our Lady of Mt. Carmel Festival? Where is it? Hammonton, I think? My dh was born in Philly and grew up in South Jersey and he has fond memories of going to that.

[Plaid Dad]

My dw and I were just discussing this after watching a YouTube video of Smokey Robinson talking about the term "African-American." (He was against it.) We both said that while our heritages are somewhat important to us, we don't feel bound by them, and in that, we are very much products of our American upbringing. They are a source of our family cultures and of a certain pride, but not the core of our identities by any means. At most, we use them as (often joking) shorthand for certain characteristics that we learned from our families: my dw's Sicilian passion for good food; my Scots-Irish tendency to argue about religion. ;) We recognize that these are partly a matter of background and partly a matter of temperament, but at the end of the day, they enrich but don't define us.

[Daisy]

Being an American is an ethnicity every bit as much as being German or Australian or Russian. How long does a country have to exist before an ethnicity is associated with it? Honestly, none of us walk around saying we are Phoenicians or Sumarians, Saxons or Normans. If we want to REALLy go back, I suppose we can but seriously that gets a bit rediculous. What do you call a person who has lived in America and whose family has lived in America for 400+ years? Of course they are simply American and personally, I think that is saying plenty. America is not devoid of a culture or heritage of it's own.

That's not to say that someone who wants to identify with a particular heritage cannot. It just means that some of are just American and that's okay, too.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Nice to meet another Norwegian, Joanne.

Back to the original topic - I do identify with the heritages that my parents felt strongly about. They are about family ties and culture. Foods, festivals, common heritage. My mom's Irish relatives are very proud of being Irish. Irish Soda Bread, corned beef (which was not so big in Ireland, but big with the immigrants here.) My mom's Norwegian relatives were very proud of their Norwegian heritage. However, they came over around the turn of the century when immigrants believed in becoming American. But the foods and sayings common to the Norwegian communities strongly identify their heritage.

My dad's grandparents emigrated from Germany. We don't know much about that side of the family because my dad didn't keep touch as much. His father died when he was young. However, his mother made a mean apple struedel!

My husband's family strongly identifies with their Slovenian heritage. I think part of it was that they grew up in a city that had churches for every ethnic variation, all within blocks of eachother! Another part was had to do with the fact that their country was absorbed into the former Yugoslavia. A holiday does not go by without some Potica and Slivovitz. I learned to make Potica last year. Not quite the same his aunts' version, but dh approves!

[*anj*]

A holiday does not go by without some Potica and Slivovitz. I learned to make Potica last year. Not quite the same his aunts' version, but dh approves!
Yummm (http://www.potica.com/)
and
Yummmmmm! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slivovitz)

[Audrey]

I want out. Out now if I could. I hate Florida and always have and I do not like living in this country any more. And no, I do not think this country will become appealing to me once I've lived elsewhere. There is nothing appealing about this country anymore. And that's just my opinion, my belief.

Ding me all you want. I can't explain it and I don't expect anyone to understand.


Toni, I hated FL, too. Probably for different reasons though. I was living in an enormously sprawling urban area, but in my hearts of hearts I longed for a small, quiet town. That's why I hated FL.

I also didn't care much for the States. The people are great, but the govt... not so much -- heck, not at all. My opportunity to get out came unexpectedly, but at the right time for me.

Now that I am Canadian (yup, got my citizenship and all) I formally rescinded my US citizenship. I don't want it. Don't need it. I know for a fact I will never move back there again. Believe it or not, it has very little to do with the US itself. It has everything to do with the fact that "HERE" is my home. In my heart, it is where I believe I've always belonged. Call it fate, call it divine plan, call it whatever the heck you want -- I believe that here is where I was meant to be, and here is where I'll stay. (Now watch me get dinged for that, eh?:001_huh:)

And, to refer to the original question of the thread: my ethnicity is not that important to me. I'm plain old white western European, mostly English/Scottish and Swiss. I have a hard time thinking of that as ethnicity, though I know that, technically, it is. I'm not ashamed of it, but I'm not exactly celebrating it either.

[GothicGyrl]

Toni, I hated FL, too. Probably for different reasons though. I was living in an enormously sprawling urban area, but in my hearts of hearts I longed for a small, quiet town. That's why I hated FL.

I also didn't care much for the States. The people are great, but the govt... not so much -- heck, not at all. My opportunity to get out came unexpectedly, but at the right time for me.

Now that I am Canadian (yup, got my citizenship and all) I formally rescinded my US citizenship. I don't want it. Don't need it. I know for a fact I will never move back there again. Believe it or not, it has very little to do with the US itself. It has everything to do with the fact that "HERE" is my home. In my heart, it is where I believe I've always belonged. Call it fate, call it divine plan, call it whatever the heck you want -- I believe that here is where I was meant to be, and here is where I'll stay. (Now watch me get dinged for that, eh?:001_huh:)


:001_wub::thumbup::grouphug:

That is all I can say. You summed it up succinctly. MWA!

[Stacy in NJ]

My dw and I were just discussing this after watching a YouTube video of Smokey Robinson talking about the term "African-American." (He was against it.) We both said that while our heritages are somewhat important to us, we don't feel bound by them, and in that, we are very much products of our American upbringing. They are a source of our family cultures and of a certain pride, but not the core of our identities by any means. At most, we use them as (often joking) shorthand for certain characteristics that we learned from our families: my dw's Sicilian passion for good food; my Scots-Irish tendency to argue about religion. ;) We recognize that these are partly a matter of background and partly a matter of temperament, but at the end of the day, they enrich but don't define us.

I really like your viewpoint, Plaid Dad. Our culture is so much more than simply our ethnicity. Everything that's happened in our own local and national experience adds to the layers of our identity.:iagree:

[Crissy]

Now that I am Canadian (yup, got my citizenship and all) I formally rescinded my US citizenship. I don't want it. Don't need it. I know for a fact I will never move back there again. Believe it or not, it has very little to do with the US itself. It has everything to do with the fact that "HERE" is my home. In my heart, it is where I believe I've always belonged. Call it fate, call it divine plan, call it whatever the heck you want -- I believe that here is where I was meant to be, and here is where I'll stay.



Aw, Audrey. I love your story. Don't most of us long to find 'our place'?
It's wonderful to hear when someone finally does.

[lynn]

I am proud of my German heritage. I listened to my Oma for hours talk about War Time in Germany. Strange thing is I have been told I look Italian or Latino. My Oma always taught me that I am German and that I am strong. I never believed that of myself until she died and I really needed to talk to her and I could hear her tell me "You're a German. You're strong. You're going to be okay kid." Having to weather some difficult, stressful times without her I found it to be true, her legacy she left to me. I am also part French Canadian but that was never stressed as much from my Nana.

Funny thing about being German. FIL liked that. He's part German and part English and he liked that I could cook a good German meal and that his son married a good German girl. lol what does that mean?

[Kelli in TN]

I am proud of my Norwegian heritage because it is just so huge to who I am. I guess the fact that I lived with my grandparents for a couple of years probably contributes to this as well. Lefse, kumlas, sardines with the heads on, krumkake, and pepparkakor were all normal foods to me from age 2 to 4 when I lived with them. The decor was all Norwegian and the language was peppered with Norwegian. It impacted me long after my father took me away from there and I only got to visit occasionally. After I met my mom and then went to live with her, she really encouraged my interest in all things Norwegian as a way to help me honor that part of who I am. She also encouraged me to call my grandparents frequently and facilitated numerous lengthy visits with them. All of this fostered a passion for all things from Norway.

I regret that the only thing Norwegian I passed onto my children was a funky middle name (they all have my maiden name as a second middle name) and love for krumkake. Of course, they fill their krumkake with ice cream.

[Laura Corin]

I've been following the ethnicity threads with interest. I really don't identify with that line of thinking at all, and it makes me wonder if I'm just odd or is it that important to people?


Without the history of displacement/emigration, we just don't talk about it and find it odd in others. When an American says to me, 'I'm English,' I always feel like saying, 'No, you're not.' Now 'English-American' I can understand, but 'English' (or Irish, or Welsh, or German.....) on it's own just doesn't sound right to me.

Laura

[Karin]

When I was growing up, my ethnicity was important to me as a source of identity, and I was particularly proud of being Canadian. Even though I'm always chiming in about Iceland or, IRL, Canadian Reginald Aubrey Fessendon (great inventor), it's not really important to me now, except that I like to speak up for the underacknowledged.

[Laura Corin]

and then....I bet you would come back and have a better attitude!

Some of them are even ancient democracies with fairly high cultural values....

Laura

[Jenny in Atl]

Without the history of displacement/emigration, we just don't talk about it and find it odd in others. When an American says to me, 'I'm English,' I always feel like saying, 'No, you're not.' Now 'English-American' I can understand, but 'English' (or Irish, or Welsh, or German.....) on it's own just doesn't sound right to me.

Laura

How would you refer to an Indian or Pakistani who is third generation living in England? Are they now English or still South Central Asian? I know in Japan, Koreans who have lived there for hundreds of years are still referred to as Korean, and not Japanese. It's funny how Americans embrace our ethnic past while other hunger to find acceptance in their new home and find none.

[mcconnellboys]

For most of us whose families have been here for generations, we are an amazing blend of world ethnicities that make up the melting pot of America. While my family roots lie primarily in England, Scotland and Ireland, I have German, Pennsylvania Dutch, American Indian and African American stock, as well. And there are additional additures in there, too; I'm just mentioning some of the most prominent ones that I happen to know about. I think America was the first great melting pot that encompassed all world civilizations, making us a pretty unique, blended people. When I say that I'm proud to be American, it is this unique heritage that I think of......

Regena

[Karin]

My dw and I were just discussing this after watching a YouTube video of Smokey Robinson talking about the term "African-American." (He was against it.) We both said that while our heritages are somewhat important to us, we don't feel bound by them, and in that, we are very much products of our American upbringing. They are a source of our family cultures and of a certain pride, but not the core of our identities by any means. At most, we use them as (often joking) shorthand for certain characteristics that we learned from our families: my dw's Sicilian passion for good food; my Scots-Irish tendency to argue about religion. ;) We recognize that these are partly a matter of background and partly a matter of temperament, but at the end of the day, they enrich but don't define us.

Great post. I mostly identified myself as Canadian, but had very much the same outlook about ethnicity as Nadia--perhaps it's the Scandinavian cultural roots? Denmark did rule Iceland for a long time!

Since I grew up eating Icelandic desserts, hearing Icelandic sometimes, wearing a hand knit Icelandic sweater (well the wool and the style) from my grandmother on my mother's side, met relatives from Iceland, since my other grandmother made lots of ethnic foods and had an accent, was a refugee, etc, I felt closer to my ethnic roots and even learned to make things like veranichi. My kids don't have those ties--they feel American and noddingly assent to the dual citizenship.

[Laura Corin]

Asian British, usually.

Laura

[*anj*]

It's something that many English people find hard to understand. Without the history of displacement/emigration, we just don't talk about it and find it odd in others. When an American says to me, 'I'm English,' I always feel like saying, 'No, you're not.' Now 'English-American' I can understand, but 'English' (or Irish, or Welsh, or German.....) on it's own just doesn't sound right to me.

Laura

Laura,
This is kind of what I was talking about. People say "I'm English" for instance, but what does that really mean to them? I mean, my mom's family has been in North Carolina for generations, but I never lived there. Does that make me kind of from there? That's what I mean. I know all the food, the land is beautiful, I was raised in a southern style home, but what does that mean, really?

I don't know. It's very interesting to hear everyone's take on things. Much food for thought.

[Mabelen]

I am not American. I have only lived in the US for a few years now. When I first came here I was confused to hear people say things like "I am Irish/Italian/Norwegian...". Whenever I heard those comments I would think they were really from those countries and I would make assumptions based on that belief. It took me a while to understand that they really meant they were of such and such descent!

My ethnic heritage is important in that I was born and bred in Spain. That was the only culture I had experienced until I moved to the UK after finishing college. Spanish is my mother tongue. My siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces and nephews are there.

I am passing my language and culture to my children, but I don't regard them as Spaniards, even though they actually are legally; I registered their births with the Spanish consulate and they are entitled to a Spanish passport. They have never actually lived in Spain, although they have visited several times, they are not being educated there, they are not living today's Spain. They are only exposed to my own experience of Spanish culture. My husband is born and bred Sri Lankan, and so our children are ethnically mixed. I hope that my children will have a good knowledge of and a fondness for all things Spanish, Sri Lankan and British, because they are all elements of our combined family culture, but I expect that they will consider themselves nothing but American (of Spanish and Sri Lankan descent).

[Vanna]

My dw and I were just discussing this after watching a YouTube video of Smokey Robinson talking about the term "African-American." (He was against it.) We both said that while our heritages are somewhat important to us, we don't feel bound by them, and in that, we are very much products of our American upbringing. They are a source of our family cultures and of a certain pride, but not the core of our identities by any means...

:iagree: Wow, Plaid Dad. I couldn't have said this better myself (so hope you don't mind me quoting you).

I have found that my/our ethnicity has been a conversation starter of sorts. People are genuinely intrigued and I'm genuinely happy to answer their questions. I'm also happy to hear what makes folks proud of their heritage and join in the celebration (like wearing green and a "Kiss Me, I'm Irish" button on St. Patrick's Day, even though there's no Irish blood in my family).

[gardenschooler]

My ethnicity doesn't mean much to me in day to day living, but I am finally curious enough about my family history to start doing a little research.

Dh's family is really, really into their Scottish heritage. The whole clan thing. When my FIL died, some of his ashes were sent to be buried near a castle in Scotland.

It is very interesting to read the family's history, and it has made me want to learn more about my own.

One day, I'll get into the whole clan thing, and I'll get dh in a kilt!



http://www.33smiley.com/smiley2/world/scotland/6.gif http://www.33smiley.com/smiley2/world/scotland/3.gif http://www.33smiley.com/smiley2/world/scotland/6.gif

[Cricket]

Being an American is an ethnicity every bit as much as being German or Australian or Russian. How long does a country have to exist before an ethnicity is associated with it? Honestly, none of us walk around saying we are Phoenicians or Sumarians, Saxons or Normans. If we want to REALLy go back, I suppose we can but seriously that gets a bit rediculous. What do you call a person who has lived in America and whose family has lived in America for 400+ years? Of course they are simply American and personally, I think that is saying plenty. America is not devoid of a culture or heritage of it's own.

That's not to say that someone who wants to identify with a particular heritage cannot. It just means that some of are just American and that's okay, too.

I've wondered about this also. When will "American" be an ethnicity? Maybe it is only Americans who don't think of "American" as an ethnicity. It's interesting that people here from other countries think it is strange that we talk about being English, German, Italian, Spanish. I think of myself as American but when asked about ethnicity, I automatically think, 'English, Scottish, a little German thrown in, and I'm sure some other things I don't know about.' :) My ancestors on my mom's side came over to this country from Scotland in the early 1600s. Some fought in the Revolutionary War and others on the Confederate side of the Civil War. On my dad's side they were English and came over before the Revolutionary War. And these are just the ancestors we know about. Who knows about the others.

I would love to visit Scotland and England. I understand when Toni says she would feel at home in another country. I think I could feel at home in the UK even though I've never been. Perhaps that is wishful thinking on my part....or watching too many episodes of "As Time Goes By." :) Even if I did live in another country, I'm sure I would always be "American" though.

[Kate CA]

It's just one of those things that I've pondered off and on and it comes to mind on a day like St. Patrick's Day so I thought I could get some good input here.

The history of my family has always fascinated me. I am passionate about history though! I also have some close ties to Ireland in my family - my grandmother is 100% Irish so we grew up with certain Irish events and memories. I am passing them to my children. Today was a big day for us as it was for me growing up. I just love it.

If my dh had a similar big day in his heritage or past we would celebrate it too, but his family was not big into their history. We have his lineage and we have mine - though they are not complete - back to the 1600's. For a history-lover like me to know where I came from and that someone in my family was involved in the Revolutionary War as an important general - well, that is just a neat thing to add to our study when we come there. (And really just a cool thing to know!) :)

I am not *focused* on days like today, but we enjoy them and celebrate a portion of our history.

[Dot]

Really?? How can that be???

[*anj*]

Really?? How can that be???

Who are you talking to? :)

[GothicGyrl]

Who are you talking to? :)

Dot Said: Really?? How can that be??? in response to Laura's post: There are other countries that are quite nice too... Some of them are even ancient democracies with fairly high cultural values...., when Laura answered Tammy's: Quote:Originally Posted by Tammy
and then....I bet you would come back and have a better attitude, in response to me when I said I know I'd like living in another country.

I don't understand how Dot feels though--is she asking how countries other than America can be what Laura said?

[RoughCollie]

My ethnicity is important to me because, except for my mom, the maternal side of my family lives in Germany and I was born there and lived there twice. We have a lot of family traditions that are German in origin because my mom is German.

The paternal side of my family likes being Irish,and so do I. Plus, around my neck of the woods, there are lots of Irish people -- the ethnicity is a lot more important, I guess you'd say, than it was in Atlanta. So here, I always use my middle name (which is my maiden name) on documents, resumes, and so forth. I like having a middle name -- my father didn't give his daughters one because he figured our last name would be our middle name when we got married.

The Pawnee Indian part (1/8) is just a fun thing to know about -- plus, I liked seeing the Indian features in my Dad and Grandma when they were alive. It was just cool to me.

[Melinda in VT]

The last of my ancestors to immigrate to the U.S. did so in 1850, so to say I am anything other than American is quite a stretch. The majority of my ancestors came from the British Isles, but I have some German in there too.

I have traveled in Canada, Mexico, Cost Rica, Britain, France, Germany, Austria, Spain, and Morocco. And I spent a summer living in Switzerland. I preferred many aspects of life there with life in the U.S. and could see myself living happily in almost all of those places. (Morocco might be a challenge.) But Britain resonated with me in a way that no other country has (although I suspect Ireland might be the same). I'm sure a lot of it has to do with a shared language and literature, but there was a definite sense of home.

But I'm not British. I'm an American of Caucasian Western European descent.

[Tami]

Not important at all. Genetic differences are non-existent, and I consider us all part of the Human Race. I refuse to answer "race" questions on those forms. Or, I put "Human." :glare:

[Jenny in Atl]

Not important at all. Genetic differences are non-existent, and I consider us all part of the Human Race. I refuse to answer "race" questions on those forms. Or, I put "Human." :glare:

I think some of us are confusing ethnicity with race. They are not the same. Ethnicity is one's cultural practices, beliefs, and customs. For example, you can have three people classified as Asian, even from the same country, yet they are ethnically different; each group having different forms of dress, eating different types of foods, and speaking different dialects. To someone from the outside these people may all "look" the same, but they would not conceder themselves to be.

[Tami]

Thanks for clarifying. Boy do I feel dumb! Oh well. :blushing:

I was raised in a almost 100% Norwegian area, but I don't know that that identity affects me in any real way. My answer is the same. I guess I am sounding rather homogeneous now! :blink:

[j.griff]

I think some of us are confusing ethnicity with race. They are not the same. Ethnicity is one's cultural practices, beliefs, and customs. For example, you can have three people classified as Asian, even from the same country, yet they are ethnically different; each group having different forms of dress, eating different types of foods, and speaking different dialects. To someone from the outside these people may all "look" the same, but they would not conceder themselves to be.

Okay, then I am a GRITS (girl raised in The South), metal head, Christian, reformed discriminator based on religious/lifestyle differences, anarchist, my skin is white, I only speak English and Southern (they ain't tha same thang), I wear t-shirts and jeans (and sweats at home) and flip-flops and sneakers, I'm kinda punky but don't listen to punk music (except for Songs for Dust Mites and a little Flaming Lips), I don't wear my hair in any special way, I like my shirts to be long enough to cover my rear, :D, I "believe" that everyone is doing the best that they can at any given time, I believe that we all need to accept each other and stop projecting our insecurities and "issues" onto everyone else we meet, I believe that intolerance and greed are what's wrong with the world, I believe in using common sense and showing common courtesy. I have NO idea what that makes me- I'm guessing "american" but I'd disagree with that. I am not a patriot.

[Mekanamom]

I think some of us are confusing ethnicity with race. They are not the same. Ethnicity is one's cultural practices, beliefs, and customs. For example, you can have three people classified as Asian, even from the same country, yet they are ethnically different; each group having different forms of dress, eating different types of foods, and speaking different dialects. To someone from the outside these people may all "look" the same, but they would not conceder themselves to be.

Yes! Thank you. :iagree: I caught myself mis-using the term ethnicity in this thread yesterday; I probably mis-used it in the other thread too.

Wiki:
An ethnic group or ethnicity is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry.[1] Ethnic identity is also marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness[2] and by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioral or biological traits.

Different from race and also culture (which, as a term itself, has many definitions).

FWIW, Tami- I too, see human beings as very much more genetically alike than different, for sure!

A lot of these discussions come down to nature vs. nurture, eh?

[Fourmother]

Now, I think about it because it is a part of the society I live in and it gets forced down on you regularly whether you want to think about it or not. And I am proud of who I am and I am teaching my kids to be proud of who they are.

I think Elm's point here is the essence of the matter. In America, some of us have the luxury of not thinking about race and/or ethnicity while others simply do not. I will never blend in with the majority of Americans and will always be seen as "other" or different, despite what our genes say about it. It would be foolish of me to teach my children that these things don't matter. In fact, I would be doing them a disservice, leaving them completely unprepared for what they must face.

On the question of whether it would be better for me someplace else, I would say it depends. In Paris, I saw that African Americans were adored while being Africans from francophone nations were barely tolerated. In Vienna I was treated much worse than I ever was in the deep south. It's all relative, of course.

[Old Dominion Heather]

I certainly do not have faith in this country any more.

My bil and I were pondering a family move to Iceland the other day. We're brainstorming places we would move to if we could... My list:

Wales
Iceland
New Zealand
Scotland

I am thinking that we can only really trust the gov't to do the wrong thing.

[WendyK]

It isn't important to me and I don't really notice. My husband moved here from Germany in 2000 and I don't think it makes any difference to him either (that he is German, and that I am American, or whatever). Even when I visit Germany I don't really think about the differences (except the language which is obviously different).