non sporty boy... Not sure how to react

[CleoQc]

I'm not too sure how to handle my boy's lack of physical learning, for a better word..(btw, he's 10yo)

My son has been in swim team for the last 2 years. He does not particularly enjoy it, but it's physical therapy of a sort for him. He swims just as badly as he did when he started. Sure, his heart and endurance got better, but his speed and technique are just as bad as they were 2 years ago. He still cannot dive in properly at the start of a race, he hasn't progressed one iota in his swimming techniques. And he's now the slowest in his group (he wasn't when the year started, but the others improved, while he didn't)

Same son has been doing highland dancing for the last FIVE years. He can learn a new dance really quickly, but any wrong technique he will learn will stay. For example, if he learned the dance without pointing his feet the very first timein a particular step, he will never point his feet in that step. Doesn't matter if he's been dancing this dance for 2 months or 2 years. He will not correct his mistakes. Yet, he loves highland dancing. He's been competing in his current category for three years, and he still scored *last* ! (people usually stay for a year, two at the most).

So, whether he enjoys the sport or not, he's showing the same handicap. A lack of learning! This is also a boy who does not like to be shown he's wrong, and refuses to learn anything he doesn't consider important (like picking up his snowboots from the entrance of the house. 4yo kids are expected to do that!)

I don't know if I'm dealing with an attitude problem, an actual handicap, or if it's to be expected of some 10 yo boys, and quite normal.

Any experienced moms out there???

[Ellie]

Highland dance mom here, too :-)

I don't think it's a 10 year old boy issue. I think it's just who your ds is. If *he* wants to continue doing those things, I don't see why he shouldn't. If he wants to stop, I don't see a problem with that, either. Not all boys are going to be athletes.

[Laura Corin]

Not more experienced, but dealing with a similar boy. He does have a diagnosis: long words for klutzy and behind physically.

My attitude is that Calvin is not gifted physically, but needs to get an hour of exercise a day for the sake of his health. I'd prefer that there were some variety, so that he developed different areas of physical skills, but basically I'm interested in health rather than achievement. I do insist that he learns to swim for safety - he's not quite at a safe level yet, so he'll be doing that for a few more summers. Beyond that: whatever he wants is fine.

He did Taekwondo for three years, but got tired of it. I am going to offer him a change of class - he didn't like his previous TKD school's weekend schedule - and will insist on him trying it (maybe a month), but after that, it's his decision. He's interested in fencing, so I am finding him a class. He mostly likes to roller blade and I'm happy with that too, although I try to add in a little upper-body work.

Best wishes

Laura

[Daisy]

Well, I don't have a 10yo boy but I kinda figure if they are happy and getting exercise then it doesn't really matter. BUT we aren't sports people either. We prefer to be working in our garden or other yard work, bike riding, hiking, none of which are even remotely competitive or requiring of much "learning".

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

So, whether he enjoys the sport or not, he's showing the same handicap. A lack of learning! This is also a boy who does not like to be shown he's wrong, and refuses to learn anything he doesn't consider important (like picking up his snowboots from the entrance of the house. 4yo kids are expected to do that!)

I don't know if I'm dealing with an attitude problem, an actual handicap, or if it's to be expected of some 10 yo boys, and quite normal.

Any experienced moms out there???

I have no help with the sports aspects, other than from the perspective just do enough for fitness sake and don't worry so much about whether or not he's doing better if *he's* not worried. I do believe gymnastics was a saving grace for my not-really-athletic dd and would have been just what the doctor ordered for my son.

BUT for the boots, I have an idea if you're interested that has been used to good effect by me and others I know. If he "forgets" to put his boots where they belong, he needs to practice. Let him know that he can either do it once properly, or he can do it three times for practice.

And you have to stick with it and do this EVERY time. When you see them in the wrong place, he has to go get them, put them on, go outside and shut the door, come in again, take them off, put them away. Then he has to go sit down somewhere. Then get up, put the boots on, go outside, shut the door, open the door, come in, take off the boots and put them away properly.

Three times.

And you just shrug sympathetically when he complains, and say, "I only want you to do it one time, but if you don't remember how, you have to practice. Sorry, kid. We'll know when you've had enough practice when you come in and do it properly the first time."

It's not punishment. It's building muscle memory and good habits. And it works on fairly stubborn cases, and it REALLY works on forgetful kids.

[Daisy]

Awesome! I'm going to try this with MY son.

[Beth in Central TX]

I would say this is normal for your son. Not every boy is athletic or even coordinated. My oldest son is coordinated and likes to play sports, but it's not something he excels at; he's not a natural runner, so even though he likes playing football, it's not the best fit for him.

My middle son sounds a lot like your son. He's not very coordinated, and physical activity is not easy for him. He can ride a bike and throw a ball, but organized sports is not a good fit. I don't even go there with him. Swimming is especially difficult because it requires too many things to do and think about at once. He can swim, but it's not pretty. He's really not aware that he lacks the skills necessary to by successful in physical activity, so I just provide enough physical activity to keep him fit and to have fun.

My youngest seems to have the most coordination and natural ability when it comes to physical activity. He's a great runner, but he's small for his age.

In the past I've given my boys the opportunity to participate in organized sports. Organized sporting activities are more difficult as they get older because it becomes more competitive, and my boys don't fit in to the competitive model. Right now we are just exercising as a family 3-4 nights a week and following the guidelines in the Presidential Challenge program.

I don't worry about my middle son because he is healthy and growing. He's a boy that's not athletic. Which is okay in my book because I'm a girl who can't sew regardless of the number of classes that I take.

[CleoQc]

I just want to be clear that I don't care about how well my son does in a sport. He could be last forever, and I wouldn't worry.

What worries me is his lack of *learning*. Even after FIVE years, he still dances with his heels on the grounds. Boom boom boom. That's actually dangerous for his spinal cord. He will lift his heels off the ground when told to do so, but next dance? They're back down. I'm not talking next week! I'm talking five minutes later! He's demonstrated over and over that he cannot learn. Yet he can learn a new dance much faster than the others in his class, but not how to correct a move.

Pam, I've done something similar to your 'three times' for the boots. And it didn't stick.

I swear, this boy cannot correct a behaviour! While the sports he does keep him in shape, I feel I'm wasting my money. I might as well be gardening with him. Why take dance lessons if fhe's not improving?

[Danestress]

How is he about being taught academically? Does he have problems with the "coaching" relationship generally?

I have two very coachable sons. They appreciate any input on how they night do better at their sports (mostly tennis for one, swimming for the other). They enjoy going out with the Dad and working on technique.

I have one son who hated that relationship. He didn't want to be told anything. If he threw the ball in an ineffective way and his father made any suggestions for improvement, he would just hate it and not want to play anymore. He quit most sports eventually because he would get mad at the coach. He hated being taught anything he already knew, and he hated being taught anything he didn't already know, lol.

I considered it quite a character issue, and still do, but I never figured out a thing I could do about it. He is aware of the problem. We bought him a guitar he wanted when he was about 14. I offered lessons. He was self aware enough to say, "No, I won't like it if someone teaches me. I have to teach myself." And you know, he did. He was good enough to play in the church band eventually. I'm sure there are things he does wrong and will not ever fix, though, because it's very threatening to have anyone make suggestions. However, I can see the good parts of being independent and stubborn too.

I guess I am just wondering if this is a stubborness of character for your son or an inability to apply what he hears to his body. Maybe he can't FEEL whether his toes are pointed?

[Meliss]

I did this last week! Only I had my kids do repeat it 10 times! :)

[Stacy in NJ]

I agree with Ellie, here. If enjoys it let him continue, if not let him find another activity that he can enjoy. Other than a real physical disability, I wouldn't worry about whether he's progressing all that much. Some people are just not athletic. I think the trick with those kinds of kids is just to find "something" physical and productive they can enjoy and get exercise.

[Stacy in NJ]

Why take dance lessons if fhe's not improving?


Because he enjoys it? Talk to his instructor. If he's concerned about his safety, then you can be concerned too.

[CleoQc]

Everybody else is passing my son. And he's stuck at the same level. He cannot progress unless he learns. And he doesn't seem to be capable of learning. That goes for swim team, and dancing. He knows all the dances he supposed to dance at his level. The teachers will not let him learn any advanced dances unless he can fix his problems. That means he hasn't learned any new dances in the last two years.

Same for swimming, his friends are moving to more advanced levels, and he's not. Speed isn't an issue, technique is!

[Laura Corin]

If he's anything like Calvin, he has very poor mind-body connection. He only has a very vague idea of what is happening to his body: he can correct a mistake by focusing absolutely all his attention on it, but then other inputs intrude and he loses track.

With Calvin that might be: he can make sure that his TKD kicks reach above waist level if that's the only thing he has to think about it. When he has to coordinate that with the rest of a routine, he just can't wrap his body around so much information. Something has to give and he goes back to his old habit. Does that sound right?

Laura

[Antonia]

BUT for the boots, I have an idea if you're interested that has been used to good effect by me and others I know. If he "forgets" to put his boots where they belong, he needs to practice. Let him know that he can either do it once properly, or he can do it three times for practice.

And you have to stick with it and do this EVERY time. When you see them in the wrong place, he has to go get them, put them on, go outside and shut the door, come in again, take them off, put them away. Then he has to go sit down somewhere. Then get up, put the boots on, go outside, shut the door, open the door, come in, take off the boots and put them away properly.

Three times.

And you just shrug sympathetically when he complains, and say, "I only want you to do it one time, but if you don't remember how, you have to practice. Sorry, kid. We'll know when you've had enough practice when you come in and do it properly the first time."

It's not punishment. It's building muscle memory and good habits. And it works on fairly stubborn cases, and it REALLY works on forgetful kids.

Does this also work for forgetful husbands? ;)

[CleoQc]

How is he about being taught academically? Does he have problems with the "coaching" relationship generally?
<snip>
I guess I am just wondering if this is a stubborness of character for your son or an inability to apply what he hears to his body. Maybe he can't FEEL whether his toes are pointed?

Danestress, you're right. He hates being coached. Thankfully, academically, he's ahead of his peers, by quite a bit. He's mostly self taught, and dislikes being told he made a mistake.

He takes violin classes, he's really looking forward to his classes, but each time the teacher tells him to repeat a piece, he cries. He tries not to, but he's really really hurt. And I can tell you the teacher is a gem. She's fantastic, never puts down a kid. There's no reason he should feel so hurt.

I'm also pretty sure he's not aware of his body at all. Last swim meet, he swam breast. He didn't put his head under water ONCE! Not once! And he didn't know it. When I told him, his face went blank as in "Oh my Gosh...." Thankfully, I have the video of it, because he didn't believe me at first.

So it seems I'm dealing with two issues here, a character issue, and a body awareness issue. Actually, it's an environment awareness issue. He doesn't know what's in his environment.

[CleoQc]

When he has to coordinate that with the rest of a routine, he just can't wrap his body around so much information. Something has to give and he goes back to his old habit. Does that sound right?

Laura

That sounds pretty right on! Add in the stress of competition, and everything has to give!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Pam, I've done something similar to your 'three times' for the boots. And it didn't stick.

I swear, this boy cannot correct a behaviour! While the sports he does keep him in shape, I feel I'm wasting my money. I might as well be gardening with him. Why take dance lessons if fhe's not improving?

My ds (who I am certain fits on the autistic spectrum somewhere) had similar problems with stuff as small as pencil grip to things like bowling. His grip is strange, sorta backward. His inclination is to walk toe to heel. And I figured it was stubbornness when he was younger, but I think it's wiring.

Do you think videotaping him dancing, then showing him a video of the proper technique would be helpful? So he can compare the two with his eyes, side by side or sequentially, instead of trying to have him see then copy?

[Danestress]

He takes violin classes, he's really looking forward to his classes, but each time the teacher tells him to repeat a piece, he cries. He tries not to, but he's really really hurt. And I can tell you the teacher is a gem. She's fantastic, never puts down a kid. There's no reason he should feel so hurt.




How interesting. My boys both take violin and I was thinking violin would be maybe torture but also make great training for your son because they do have to be so totally aware of so many body issues at once - how their back is, how the shoulder is, what's going on with that pinky, straighten your thumb, your hand needs to come over a fraction of an inch!

I wonder if the video tape might not be the best thing for him. Use it to show him stuff he's doing great, and also to point out his issues - like his feet not pointing. Maybe that would make a difference?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Danestress, you're right. He hates being coached. Thankfully, academically, he's ahead of his peers, by quite a bit. He's mostly self taught, and dislikes being told he made a mistake.

He takes violin classes, he's really looking forward to his classes, but each time the teacher tells him to repeat a piece, he cries. He tries not to, but he's really really hurt. And I can tell you the teacher is a gem. She's fantastic, never puts down a kid. There's no reason he should feel so hurt.

I'm also pretty sure he's not aware of his body at all. Last swim meet, he swam breast. He didn't put his head under water ONCE! Not once! And he didn't know it. When I told him, his face went blank as in "Oh my Gosh...." Thankfully, I have the video of it, because he didn't believe me at first.

So it seems I'm dealing with two issues here, a character issue, and a body awareness issue. Actually, it's an environment awareness issue. He doesn't know what's in his environment.

For B, it was perfectionism run amok. I had to actually model, step by step, how it was for me when I when I found something difficult or did something wrong and couldn't get it quite right. Sometimes I pretended to have a hard time, just so I could model that. All the self-talk, the feelings of disappointment of not being perfect the very first time, the annoyance of having to work so hard to change, the difficulty of remembering to do the one new thing while juggling all the rest. It did seem to work, eventually.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It sounds to me like your son is not a kinesthetic learner!

Is he better at learning things aurally?
Or visually?

Then going over the steps by talking them out (for someone who has to "hear" the steps) might be the way to go.

Or using the idea already mentioned of looking at videos might be the way to go.

[Stacy in NJ]

Everybody else is passing my son. And he's stuck at the same level. He cannot progress unless he learns. And he doesn't seem to be capable of learning. That goes for swim team, and dancing. He knows all the dances he supposed to dance at his level. The teachers will not let him learn any advanced dances unless he can fix his problems. That means he hasn't learned any new dances in the last two years.

Same for swimming, his friends are moving to more advanced levels, and he's not. Speed isn't an issue, technique is!


Explain actually that to him. Does he care about advancing? If he does, then explain what he needs to do to advance. If he doesn't, I'd let it go.

[CleoQc]

Explain actually that to him. Does he care about advancing? If he does, then explain what he needs to do to advance. If he doesn't, I'd let it go.

Oh I did that many times already. He does care, but he seems unable to do anything about it.

I was just talking with my mom. Explaining that, when someone has problems with mathematics, one can go get a tutor. But with anything physical, the tendency is "just let him be".

Btw, the whole thing has a social aspect to it too. As I mentionned, his friends are moving up, he's not. He's becoming the butt of joke. Other boys don't want to be with him, etc... I don't want to turn my son into a champion - he'll never be one. I do want him to be able to pass a doorway without bumping the walls :001_huh: (ok, he's not that bad, but not that far either!)

[CleoQc]

It sounds to me like your son is not a kinesthetic learner!
Is he better at learning things aurally?Or visually?
Then going over the steps by talking them out (for someone who has to "hear" the steps) might be the way to go.
Or using the idea already mentioned of looking at videos might be the way to go.

The video approach has not helped at all. It only served to discourage him.

And the funny thing, is that my son *is* a kinesthetic learner. Whatever he's got to learn, he has to move when learning it. Kinesthetic does not imply coordinated :blink:

[Tracey in TX]

Sounds like muscle memory. He probably needs to be taught each movement perfectly from the beginning as it's permanently stored in his brain that way forward. The only suggestion I have is if he really cares about the sport (is highland dancing) is to work each movement to perfection before learning the next step. In gymnastics some gyms work in this manner, while most demonstrate an overall form and then work on specifics.
I wouldn't be too hard on DS. It's probably how his brain is wired.

[Laurie4b]

Cleo,

I think it's important to pay attention to your mom-intuition that "something is not right." You are not saying, "My son is not gifted athletically. You are saying,"He can't learn with his body." Are there other areas that are difficult for your son? Handwriting? Drawing? Reading? Comprehension? Social interaction? Impulsivity? Attention? Some of these areas can be related to physical coordination, believe it or not. (Not that one causes the other, but that the issues are seen in clusters) IF your ds simply has coordination difficulties, you could then decide whether or not to get help just with those. An occupational therapist can work with him to analyze what the overall issue is and to help him with specific applications. He would probably qualify for treatment for "Coordination disorder", which in the US, most insurance co's will pay for.

[Ellie]

I just want to be clear that I don't care about how well my son does in a sport. He could be last forever, and I wouldn't worry.

What worries me is his lack of *learning*. Even after FIVE years, he still dances with his heels on the grounds. Boom boom boom. That's actually dangerous for his spinal cord. He will lift his heels off the ground when told to do so, but next dance? They're back down. I'm not talking next week! I'm talking five minutes later! He's demonstrated over and over that he cannot learn. Yet he can learn a new dance much faster than the others in his class, but not how to correct a move.

Pam, I've done something similar to your 'three times' for the boots. And it didn't stick.

I swear, this boy cannot correct a behaviour! While the sports he does keep him in shape, I feel I'm wasting my money. I might as well be gardening with him. Why take dance lessons if fhe's not improving?

Some people never, ever learn the heels thing. Really. I did Scottish country dance for many years, and I gotta tell you, there were some adults who should have taken up chess instead. Really. And my dh, who learns each dance quickly and is never in the wrong place at the wrong time, cannot point his toes, or stay off his heels, or keep his arm by his side when he's not using it.

Does he learn other things? Then that's not the problem. The problem is that God didn't make him to be a dancer. Let it go :-)

[CleoQc]

Does he learn other things? Then that's not the problem. The problem is that God didn't make him to be a dancer. Let it go :-)

No, he doesn't learn other things. The heel was an example of what I'm trying to express. He doesn't learn proper swimming techniques either. Or proper gym techniques. Anything physical, if he can't do it right the first time, he will never do right.

And to muddy up the waters even more, he just brought me his writing. There's a spelling mistake he's been doing for YEARS. He knows the spelling if I ask him to spell it out, but each time he writes it, bang! the mistake comes back.

I feel like I'm dealing with multiple issues here (and none of them are that I want him to become a swimming and/or dancing champion!) I've been noticing for a long time now that this boy cannot 'unlearn' a bad habit.

[Laura Corin]

Welcome to my club. I aim for a happy, relatively fit child. Beyond that, I have no expectations.

Best wishes,

Laura

[camibami]

Oh, I have this kid, too, in female form.

She falls off chairs- for no reason- its a family joke now because she always jumps up with a sparkling "I'm ok!". We hear "I'm ok!" about 15 times a day, LOL. Mine is a swimmer, too, and while she has improved, and is a decent swimmer, she doesn't improve like other kids. Same with any physical task requiring coordination- gymnastics, even laid back hs gymnastics, was practically perilous. My heart couldn't take it.:glare:

FWIW, my DD does have some "issues". She's dysgraphic- OT helped some, but the wiring in her brain is just...off. She may or may not be an Aspie. That isn't helpful one iota, but thats what a gazillion developmental/nuerological peds came up with- fits on some stuff, not enough to for sure say she is.

We've just accepted the fact that she's a weird kid. I was one, too, and I'm pretty ok.:D

DD is not the least bit competitive, so she is happy as a clam coming in first (which though rare has happened) or last. She'll dance her heart out to Hanna Montana, "I'm OK!"ing all the while when she falls over her feet. I think it may be easier for a girl to be not physically coordinated, though, as boys are "expected" to be athletic.

A trip to a developmental pediatrician can't hurt, but, like us, you may end up with a diagnosis of Undetermined Non-Specific Yet Endearing Weirdness.

Cami

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Undetermined Non-Specific Yet Endearing Weirdness.

Cami

Yes! That's my son! I'm stealing that. :smilielol5:

[WTMindy]

I feel like I'm dealing with multiple issues here (and none of them are that I want him to become a swimming and/or dancing champion!) I've been noticing for a long time now that this boy cannot 'unlearn' a bad habit.

It sounds to me like more of a character issue. He really needs to learn to be coached in whatever it is that he is doing. I think I would spend some time discussing the notion of coach-ability and stubborness and ask him if can tell the difference. Spend some time getting to the root issues of this with him-maybe choose the spelling since it is something he knows how to do. Explain to him how important it is to take instruction from a boss someday, etc...I'm sure you already do all these things. Together choose one very small piece (whether it be pointing toes or landing a certain way or whatever you both decide) and have him ask his coach what he could do to fix it. Then maybe he could concentrate really hard on that one little thing. To me (as I'm sure it is to you, judging by the question) the issue is not the coodination, but the ability to accept constructive criticism.

This sounds frustrating for both of you!! Sometimes I think my (almost 10yo)ds will be the death of me!!

[katilac]

Has he ever had a full evaluation done? That would be my next step. I know people, especially home schoolers, are often hesitant to slap a label on kids who march to a different drummer, but the added knowledge can be very helpful. It seems like it's becoming an issue for your son in terms of his social life and self-esteem, and I don't think a 'label' is any more harmful than that.

When a child seems unable to learn certain things in the usual way, a professional who is trained in evaluating and supporting kids may be able to suggest specific techniques to help improve certain skills. The advantage of being a home schooling family is that you can use the knowledge and disregard the label.

[CleoQc]

Has he ever had a full evaluation done?

Due to the bad legalities about homeschooling here, if I get a full evaluation done, and something comes back as 'out of the ordinary', I have a 50-50 chance of losing custody of the child, and/or face forced schooling.

Would you get an evaluation done under these circumstances? I wouldn't...

[Michelle in MO]

is not very good at sports, and this has been a real challenge for her. She needs a P.E. credit, so we make her do something. All three girls tried dance, but that didn't work too well with our family. Then, they were all doing swimming, which was one sport the oldest actually had some aptitude in, but then the schedule of the swim team changed, so we dropped out. Now they're doing karate, and my husband and I have decided that we'd like them to stick with karate. Because we've had such a hard time finding a good "fit" for our oldest, we decided that constantly so I think switching them around wasn't the best idea---that they would never really improve in one area.

I think with your d.s. you can maybe emphasize the necessity of trying to remain physically fit. However, not all kids are good at sports. You can keep trying different activities; I would recommend that if you find one that he has some inclination and ability towards, to try to stick with it. He will probably improve in that sport and it might help his self-esteem, too!

HTH!

[katilac]

Due to the bad legalities about homeschooling here, if I get a full evaluation done, and something comes back as 'out of the ordinary', I have a 50-50 chance of losing custody of the child, and/or face forced schooling.

Would you get an evaluation done under these circumstances? I wouldn't...

No, of course not.

Would that still hold true if it were a private evaluation? Is getting one done in the states a possibility? (can't remember where in canada you are)

I know that many people in the states bypass evaluations offered by the school system because they don't want anyone else to have that information.

As far as dance and swim are concerned, I would seriously consider pulling my child out. It sounds like the situation might be going downhill, as far as peer relations are concerned, and no amount of exercise is worth him being taunted or bullied. The difference in ability is going to become even more pronounced as he approaches the teen years.

I'd look for things that he can do on his own - - exercise dvds might be a good choice, and there's tons of variety (walking, pilates, tai chi, all kinds of dance). A fun option is the Wii gaming system; you jump around quite a bit, and some of the games are EXCELLENT for coordination.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Can you do these activities more for fun than sport? I mean go to the pool but for their lap swim and open swim times instead of the swim team. Put on some Scottish reels (is that what you do Highland dance to? I'm so bad and I do have Scottish heritage!) and kick up your heels in your living room! My point is my first sentence: healthy fun over competitive sport.

[CleoQc]

Well, only the future will tell if this is a good decision or not, but DS is now off the swim team. Dh and I both agreed that the progress (or lack thereof) didn't justify the expenses. DS is actually swimming worse than last year.

Also, DS has two more weeks of highland dancing, and then he's out. In two weeks, he has his yearly test. We're letting him do his test. After 5 years, he's still placing last - when he does not get disqualified - that means he's after those who started this year.

My son's first reaction to these news? "Yeah I can play Nintendo more!"

yeah, right, as if I would cancel 4 hours of physical activities to let him play 4 extra hours of video games. NOT! But if I don't have him in an outside physical activity, he'd be a total couch potato! :eek:

[In The Great White North]

of swimming or dance if he's still enjoying it. He needs physical exercise even if he isn't getting any better. It's easy to say you're going to dance around the living room or swim laps on your own, but the reality of it for most of us is that, without the team schedule, you make it over there less and less. If you're unhappy with his coordination at swimming, what's going to happen with town, as in free, sports (baseball, lacrosse, etc). I would think coordination difficulties would result in social difficulties there.

I swam through college, my kids are on a swim team and I help coach. There are definitely kids who improve faster and other kids who improve slower. Most 10 year-olds have no idea what their arms and legs are really doing. Most teams don't spend a lot of time on just one stroke. They work on all the strokes and doing enough to get stronger. It sounds like he needs to focus on just one thing longer than the rest of the team.

If you want him to continue, you can help with that. Individual swim lessons are not that expensive for one or two, or you can do it yourself at open swim. Start with freestyle, because that's what they do most of at swimming every day. Talk to the coach, pick one particular thing to focus on, video tape a length, show him (the child), explain what he's doing and what he should be doing, have him swim another length, video tape again. Repeat.

http://www.goswim.tv has a lot of short video clips he can watch to see what he should be doing, and even some of other young swimmers, showing common mistakes.

As a final thought, several of our parents complain that their children aren't getting any better, but if we look at their best times from meets, they actually have improved. May not look any prettier or place any better, but if his time this year is better than last year, he has improved. The kids don't always even realize they're getting better because they don't know their times.

As a final, final thought, I quit getting better at 14. I still love swimming and it's still great exercise!

[Old Dominion Heather]

Cleo,

Any chance of bringing him to the states for a private evaluation? You know you'd be welcome down here!

Ds is physically not very athletic either and doesn't enjoy sports for the sake of movement. He does like learning the stratagy of the competitive games. That's how I got him to do football, which he enjoyed and basketball this winter. He may not ever be an outstanding player due to size and strength, but he was able to see that his areas of strength made him a desirable player in some instances. For example, in football, he was one of the smallest players, but he was a blocker for the quarterback because he was one of the few who knew his left from his right.

Do you think perhaps switching to a team sport where S. has the chance to experience winning as a team rather that an individual might help him to improve? I was really impressed by how much the other kids encouragement and coaching each other helped the team to improve.

[CleoQc]

He needs physical exercise even if he isn't getting any better.

He hated swim team, and had lost interest in highland dancing since he's not moving forward (he's got to place in the top three in a total of 6 competitions to move up - and that's not going to happen!)

He has other activities, so he will still be moving! Starting next week, he's in a swim&gym session with other homeschoolers. They won't push the swimming like the swim team, but they will correct his techniques. Since there are 5 kids per group instead of 25, he will get more corrections (hopefully!)

He's also still doing synchro swimming - yeah, I don't have a boy that enjoys boy sports!. And he's still taking ballet.

So overall, he will still be an active boy (even though he's got two feet in the same boot - ok that's a French expression that I freely translated :lol: )


Do you think perhaps switching to a team sport where S. has the chance to experience winning as a team rather that an individual might help him to improve?

Oh boy! He HATES all team sports. He hates being part of a team! Well, it's not the team concept, it's more the 'fight for the ball' thing. We're still looking for a team sport he might enjoy. In the meantime, he's taking waterpolo lessons over the summer. I made it a mandatory part of his staying home for high school. He does not have to compete year long, but the summer league should be ok. Like it or not, he's got to be part of a team eventually.

[Lorna]

Hi Cleo,
I thought I might relate our experiences here in Denmark and some other personal experiences.

We go swimming twice a week in Copenhagen and I have really noticed a huge difference between the swimming classes the school children take here and the ones I have seen in England, Scotland and France. Here in Denmark the children spend nearly the whole lesson 'playing' in the water. They play on floats; the teachers are in the pool playing with them. Today I watched as they got water polo nets out. They released hundreds of little floating balls into the pool and the teams had a great time finding ways to get the balls into the other side's nets.
What I suppose I learned today is that the aim of these lessons is not to produce Olympic swimmers but children who will always love swimming and exercise, no matter what their ability. I thought how much better this would be for my nephew who dreads his swimming lesson in England because of how much better his friends are than him.
Speaking personally, my family were very competitive and sporty when I was growing up. My sister swam for Scotland, my mother is a swimming coach, etc. I always felt such a failure at swimming, it was so easy to see who was the slowest at our swimming club! When I was sixteen I discovered synchronised swimming. It was incredible. I gained stamina and loved the challenge of the different physical moves. There really is no difference between synchro and athletics, except that one must have better lung capacity. I found my swimming technique improved greatly too.
I love swimming now. I know my sporty competitive sisters no longer do much sport. I suppose there isn't the incentive (no medals for thirty-somethings with a day job!).

I felt very alienated in my family as the 'creative indoorsy' type. But I finally realised I am the sporty-type - simply not the competitive type. I am afraid team-sports never engaged me on an intellectual level. It still amazes me that people can watch more than one football match. There is so little to see. Now a ballet, play or opera, I could watch over and over.
I am a bit sad my son didn't continue his ballet, to me, male dancers are the epitome of strength. They get the closest a human could to flying!
My son recently taught himself to skip. At first he said over and over that he couldn't do it. You know, even I believed him, but I had recently read an article about innate ability be of very little importance in success; self-belief is what matters. So, I encouraged him not to give up; that he could do anything he set his heart on. He really made progress fast and it has given him confidence to persist in other aspects of learning. It really worked!
I am sorry this got so long.
I hope this is of some help.

[In The Great White North]

gymnastics? When we lived in New Jersey there was a gym that had boys' gymnastics (not just girls with sparkles on) up through college. Most people think of gymnastics as a girl thing, but guys gymnastics, which peaks later, is a really good sport too.

The downside is that gymnastics costs even more than swimming.

[CleoQc]

Can you do these activities more for fun than sport? I mean go to the pool but for their lap swim and open swim times instead of the swim team.

Just doing a follow up on this, because I did find the following funny!

I took my son to the pool's free swim on Monday. He got in the water, leaned against the wall and talked for an hour! That was it! :lol:

When you have a child with low muscle tone, that's what happens. If no one is pushing him, he will not move. Heck, he won't even walk at a half-decent speed! He's so slow all the time. Sigh..

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ok, I can see this happening with my ds10! People think I'm this pushy mom when I tell him - you must run around the block (or whatever it is). Oh, well, back to the drawing board. . . :gnorsi:

[CleoQc]

Quick update on this conversation from long ago..

I did pull DS from swim team in March. I let him quit Highland Dancing in April. He continued with his other sports. Fast forward to summer swimming.

He took a whole 9 seconds off from his 50m freestyle, another 9 seconds from his 50m back, and 6 seconds off from his 50m breaststroke! A HUGE improvement! He made the semi-finals too!

And last but not least, his synchro swimming team took GOLD last night!

:party:

[In The Great White North]

Does this mean he likes it again?

Nothing like a little success to make it fun.:001_smile:

[CleoQc]

Does this mean he likes it again?

Nope, not really. Well, he's happy with his progress but doesn't want to go back to winter swimming. Synchro swimming on the other hand, he really enjoys!

[DSAcademy]

One of our trainers used some techniques that were really helpful for the boys when they needed to make skill adjustments, such as:

1. They reviewed the game/practice tapes with the kids to show them exactly what they were doing...and then took them back on the ice to show them how they wanted it done. Then they worked with the kid to show him techniques to help him get from where he was to where they wanted him to be. This process was repeated each practice until the gap was bridged. Some of the kids even had full length mirrors at home for shooting practice so they could see themselves and self-monitor.

2. Sometimes how the new skill was taught made a big difference. When they told them while showing them - both the visual and auditory kids were receiving the same info.

3. They also did a how does that feel/muscle memory exercise the kids liked. They let the kid do his hit/shot his way - then showed him what they wanted and talked him through how his muscles, posture, balance etc felt different when doing it properly - so he would have physical clues about whether he had made the necessary adjustments during a game.

Also sometimes the kids just needed a break from being on the ice or doing dry land training almost daily year after year. Or as DS said about Mats Sundin, trying to figure out if he wants to play again this year..."If he isn't having fun playing anymore then he should retire. I'm gonna retire when hockey feels more like a job than a game. After all isn't that why you play professional hockey anyways...because it's way more fun than having a real job? ...I bet you the zamboni drivers never want to retire."

Anyways, I hope that your DS is really proud of himself! It sounds like the break was a great way to refuel and refocus.