The Great Conversation & the WTM Boards

[Pencil Pusher]

A question from the curric board that I'd like to adapt & bring over here: do we need a classroom for certain subjects (hist) in order to have good discussion, etc.?

I've copied my answer below, but it's really gotten me thinking: we have a great thing going here! Dh was just commenting that if you were to bring up the topic, The Nature of Man, for ex., you'd have "posts" from Nietche, Plato, Jesus, Reagan, etc. It's like you can sit down at the table with all the biggies.

And fwiw, you guys are Biggies in my book!:001_wub:
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What is the point of the kind of (classical) education we are providing?

We usually say that we want to train our children to think a certain way, that we want them to read the greats, etc. But why?

Because of the Great Conversation. It is not limited by space or time. It is recorded in and by the great books, so that we *can* have the discussions you're suggesting--with Shakespeare, Plato, and...how about Faulkner? We have the time to mull the words that others have written and to formulate our own.

One may hesitate here. One may claim that this is different from classroom discussions, but isn't this the way that Socrates was taught? And Alexander the Great? And, fwiw, isn't that exactly what we are doing here, now?

I think classes can be great, but I wouldn't seek them out for the reasons you have mentioned. If there are other factors, perhaps. But the conversation can be had at the dining table.

[8FillTheHeart]

I'm not sure that I entirely understand your post. If you are stating that by reading the Greats and having a lively dinner table conversation, it is the same as a group discussion, than I am not sure I can agree with your logic......mainly b/c I am the teacher and I am definitely NOT Aristotle or Socrates!! Also, Socrates definitely questioned groups. ;) (Not sure about Aristotle, though. When he was Alexander the Great's teacher, I am assuming that he only had him as a pupil......either way, I am not up to par!!)

It is amazing to watch how kids' minds "click" and "ah-hah" when engaged in stimulating conversation. Honestly, I think that being challenged in a group forces them to articulate their views more concisely vs. one on one.

I listened in on every class the yr my ds took Great Books Academy's Ancient Greeks. The online Socratic discussions were amazing. The kids were intelligent and thoughtful. They agreed and disagreed with eachother. The interaction was only guided, not controlled, by the teacher. This meant the students had to be able to support their position in a convincing presentation or be challenged by the other students. To listen how these discussions lead to a much deeper understanding of the overall context of a work impressed me and it was a direct result of the cumulative discussion/disagreements/obscure quotes, etc. It didn't happen b/c of only 1 even 2 POV or b/c of teacher lecture.

So, no, I do not think you can duplicate the experience from a simple parent-child dialogue. Not b/c it is parent/child, but b/c it is one on one. Multiple people offering multiple views and differing opinions forces you to think more objectively than simply one similar or opposing view. The need to think quickly in order to articulate your argument when you have to justify it to multiple view points is simply a different experience.

[Pencil Pusher]

Well, my point was that it *isn't* one-on-one. The child is sitting at the dining table with Thoreau, Plato, Shakespeare, etc. Yeah, you're there, too, but the point is that you don't have to be as good a teacher as Socrates. You've got Socrates there to speak for himself!

I'm not saying it's always completely the same as a class discussion, just that it's something we shouldn't dismiss or overlook.

[8FillTheHeart]

well, maybe in Walgreens. ;) My kids are far, far from Utopic. :) Reading the Greats is not necessarily the same as actually "digesting" the Greats. It takes a LOT more to engage my kids' thought processes.

I understand what you are saying, now. I think for the exceptional, or for someone who is studying on a self-motivated level, maybe. But, still, personal interpretation is often skewed. Discussion allows for balance or at the minimum challenges your view point and at least attempts to broaden understanding. :)