Do I have to cover ancient literature?

[Angela in NC]

It looks so intimidating, dry, dull, and beyond my limited mental capacity. How will I survive? How will I manage to pass on some enthusiasm and insight to my dd, who absolutely loves reading?

I only "allow" for 1 classic a month. I have to cap her reading or she would do no other work. I do plan for some literature analysis and use Sparknotes quite heavily, but is this enough? It won't be tied into her history as she will be doing APUSH.

Thanks for the encouragement,
Angela

[transientChris]

We will be covering some ancient but not a whole years worth. She has already done egyptian poetry and gilgamesh in 9th grade and she will do at least one greek play, and the Odyssey or the Illiad plus a few other selections in 12th. This kid will be doing more in college so I am not worried about her missing out.

[Cedarmom]

Teaching Company has some awesome lectures on Homer's Odyssey and the Aeneid.The lectures are by Dr. Elizabeth Vandiver(sp?) Maybe listening to them, along with reading will help. Also try first some retellings, Rosemary Sutcliff has a retelling of the Odyssey (sorry can't remember the name) that is excellent. I am so glad we did these books. My son probably won't read them in college, so highschool was a great time. We loved these books. Maybe you will change your mind about dry and dull.

[Michelle in AL]

If you're doing APUSH, is it possible to do Amer Lit with it? If not, I'd recommend trying a little Ancient Lit accompanied by The Well Educated Mind. I was always afraid of any of the Great Books since I had never been exposed to them before. I forced myself to read one prior to dd's middle school yrs and was surprised how much I enjoyed them. My girls were challenged, but enjoyed them too.

Of course if you've already read some and still don't enjoy them, then just disregard all of above.

My dd did AP Bio and Ancient Lit in 9th grade and did fine using Omnibus. SP Bio took most of her time, but she got everything accomplished well. It can be done if your student is motivated.

[Jane in NC]

It looks so intimidating, dry, dull, and beyond my limited mental capacity. How will I survive?

May I suggest that you read Plato's Republic out loud? This book is quite relevant to teens, given their intrinsic love of argument.

Aristophanes is anything but dull and dry. He is quite funny and at times crude. You should both enjoy The Frogs or The Birds.

We spent a good deal of time in 9th grade on The Aeneid. We listened to Vandiver's Teaching Company lectures and read the epic in translation. My son is now reading it in Latin so I am glad that he had this foundation.

If I were you, I would search this board for information on individual titles. You may receive insight on which translation to consider and other teaching tips.

The only minor discomfort that I felt when studying ancient literature with my son was when reading Oedipus Rex. There is a moment of "ewww" for boys that requires some discussion--but this is not something I would overlook. Literary references to Oedipus abound so one must encounter the play at one point or another.

Jane

[JennW in SoCal]

Here's a recommendation for you!

My 14 yo and I are enjoying the Fagles translation of the Iliad, listening to an abridged audio version (it is excellent, and all the abridged parts are seamlessly summaraized). We are also watching Dr. Vandiver's lectures which adds so much to the work.

Plato is up next (I think I bought the Apologies -- perhaps I should find the Republic instead??)

[Brigid in NC]

I agree with others who have suggested audiobooks. I am teaching ancient and medieval lit this year to eight 9th-11th grade boys and they have loved The Iliad and The Odyssey (and so have I!).

Both of these epics were originally recited. They were not produced in written form until much later. So it is not fudging to listen to them. I suggested that my class listen, while reading along.

We listened to the Fitzgerald translation (George Guidall, narrator -- Recorded Books version) of The Iliad and the Fagles translation (Ian McKellan, narrator) of The Odyssey. Both narrators were excellent. They really brought the stories to life. We did not choose the McKellan narration of The Iliad, because it was abridged -- but McKellan really is the superior narrator. Just excellent!

Don't assume you won't like these two epics. I'll bet you will be very surprised how accessible they are. If you decide to choose just one, I'd suggest that you consider that The Iliad is VERY violent, and all about a short period in the Trojan War (which might be appealling to boys, but maybe not so much to many girls). The Odyssey, is much less violent, with a tremendous variety of encounters and sub plots. The boys in my class were split on which of the two they liked better.

I just loved listening to both of these epics -- and that really surprised me. I can now see why they have endured. Give them a try! I bet you'll be surprised. But! If you don't want to tackle them -- and you have a student who loves to read -- just let your student read them. They really will get a lot out of them on their own.

Great luck! I hope you enjoy the books as much as my class and I have. :001_smile:

[Lori D.]

It looks so intimidating, dry, dull, and beyond my limited mental capacity. How will I survive? How will I manage to pass on some enthusiasm and insight to my dd, who absolutely loves reading


Well, of course ultimately you don't *have* to do ancient classics -- it's your homeschool, afterall. :001_smile:

However, there are several works that are VERY interesting, some are almost universally read in high school, plus some of the ancient works are alluded to SO frequently, it is really worth your while to cover a few. In addition to the other ladies' ideas of Teaching Company lecture series and listening to them as books on tape, here are some more ideas to help encourage YOU with some enthusiasm!


Works that are extremely accessible:
Some of the ancient classics are anything BUT dry and dull! Murders, incest, gods interfering in humans' lives, battles, adventures, transformations, quests, monsters, eternal punishment...
- The Odyssey (long, but a series of adventures, monsters, etc.)
- Greek myths (short story length; do as many or few as you wish)
- Oedipus Rex (VERY dramatic tragic play; about novella length)
- Antigone (very poignant play; about novella length)
- Till We Have Faces (by C.S. Lewis; wonderful retelling of the Cupid & Psyche myth)


Use good lit. guides:
Literature guides help you "see" what to look for by uncovering themes and symbols; they often give great discussion questions for use as a springboard to discussion; and they provide very helpful background information on the work / author / time & culture in which the work was written to help you better understand the work. Helpful guides we used with the ancients:
- Garlic Press Publishers have a great "Discovering Literature series" guide for The Odyssey
- Sparknotes are free online guides with chapter summaries, analysis, themes/symbols, etc.
- Wikipedia articles


Abridge:
- Consider only reading key sections from a longer work (such as the Iliad, which is SO often alluded to, and is a wonderful work, but there are quite a few chapters that go on and on with battles, lists of warriors, how many ships; etc.) -- the Novel Unit guide we used with the Iliad listed key chapters to cover if you couldn't read the whole thing, and I bet you could find something similar with an online abridged work.
- Read an abridged version just to enjoy the story without getting bogged down. Maybe a later year, you'll then want to try the full translation! (We read a wonderful retelling of Gilgamesh by Jennifer Westwood, and a prose version of The Aeneid by Alfred Church as part of our high school year of ancient classics.)


Watch a film version:
You may enjoy the ancient classic more if you see a film version first to get down the names of the gods and goddesses, and the humans and all their relationships:
- The Iliad = "Troy" (2004) -- film
- The Odyssey = "The Odyssey" (1998) -- TV mini-series
- Greek Myths = "Jim Hensen's The Storyteller: Greek Myths" (1988) -- short-lived TV series, WELL WRITTEN, 4 lovely stories
- Greek Myth = "Jason and the Argonauts" (1963) -- film



Look for allusions:
Alongside the Bible and Shakespeare plays, the Greek myths, Oedipus the King, and The Iliad and The Odyssey are the MOST alluded to pieces of literature of all time. So many other classics throughout time either refer to them, build on them, or put a spin/twist on them that it is really fun to read those works and starting looking for those allusions in films, books, websites, articles, short stories, TV shows, etc....
- Gilgamesh = Star Trek the Next Generation season 5 episode "Darmok"
- The Odyssey = "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou" -- film
- Greek Myths = Percy Jackson & the Olympians -- VERY fun series of books for teens (and adults!)
- Greeks gods/goddesses = "Hercules" -- fun animated Disney film
- telling the story of, or, allusions, in works of art = much of Renaissance art up to the Impressionists alludes to or tells the story of so many ancient figures, stories, epics, etc -- you'll much more enjoy the art knowing the lit.!
- Holst's classic music piece "The Planets" is based on musically interpreting the Greek god for which each of the planets was named


Who knows? You may get into the ancients and find you are REALLY having so much fun, you might give some other ancient classics a try, such as Plato's Republic, or Aristotle's Poetics, or.... ENJOY your classic literature journey together! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[justamouse]

It's really not dry, dull and it is not above your mental capacity. I do think you will be doing her, and you a disservice if you don't take the time to do them. Esp is she loves reading as much as you say she does. These are themes she will be reading over and over in life and it will be the foundation of her education if she majors in literature for college.

[Karen in CO]

It's really not dry, dull and it is not above your mental capacity. I do think you will be doing her, and you a disservice if you don't take the time to do them. Esp is she loves reading as much as you say she does. These are themes she will be reading over and over in life and it will be the foundation of her education if she majors in literature for college.

:iagree:
My ds isn't even a Lit major and is reading these this year. His school requires an Intellectual Heritage class for all students. He is loving the class and wasn't afraid to tackle any of the reading because he had read many of the works in high school unlike many of his peers.

[Angela in NC]

With all these wise wonderful suggestions, I am sure we will be able to manage. She will read and comprehend just about anything. My addled brain doesn't always get it! I think the Teaching Company lectures and audio books and many of the other recommendations will hopefully help with that.

Both of my dc are covering American History/Government this year and are doing quite a bit of American Literature with that. We are using some Teaching Company, but mostly Sparknotes. I enjoy and have not been intimidated by American Literature.

Dd will move into her 9th grade next year and is set up for APUSH, but I wanted to keep my dc literature reading in the same time period. Ds will be 5th grade.

My limited education never covered ancient literature, but I will face the challenge knowing that it can be done!

Thank you,
Angela:001_smile:

[WishboneDawn]

I understand you're idea that ancient literature might be dry and dull but (if you stay away from Plutarch :D) it's just not true!

Ovid is a fantastic place to start. Metamorphosis is all about all the characters from ancient myths so many kids are familiar with and it's funny and well-placed and sucks a person in. A good translation of Homer is key. I'm reading a Rieu translation to my 11 yr. old right now and we're both finding it fun and easy to understand.

There's a reason so many of these writing survived for so long and it's NOT because they're dry and dull. :)

[Nan in Mass]

My son found these useful for his comp class at CC, and also his humanities class at his college, and it is a math/science college! I was completely intimidated by the idea of reading these also, but I decided that we would at least read them and see what we got out of them, letting the books speak for themselves, even if I totally botched the background info and all the Englsih class part where I was supposed to make my students understand and appreciate the books. And you know what? It turns out that the books have remained popular because they work even if you just read them with no guidance or background info. Yes, guidance and background info add richness and appreciation, but they work even without that. And we didn't even find them dry! TWEM genre backgrounds provided enough guidance for us to see where the works fit into the development of history and literature, and TWEM questions gave us an appreciation for the work. I suggest you try a few and see what happens. I bet you will be surprised.
-Nan