Boys and fighting - ack!

[JennifersLost]

I've had a situation brewing for some time and things just came to a head. I have three boys - 15, 13, and almost 11. The 11 year old has begun to let his temper get the better of him.

I've tended to be sympathetic with him because there is the normal dynamic - he's always trying to keep up with the older ones and with three there's often "two against one" situations. The oldest is always part of the two. Often he sides with the youngest against the middle one, but often it's the older two against the youngest.

Recently, my youngest has begun to respond with explosions of temper and it's always the younger two going at it. They've gotten into shoving matches, exchanged blows, etc. Fighting is absolutely not allowed at my house and they know it - they always get in trouble afterward. In the last few weeks the youngest has begun going further. Among other things he threw a rock at the next older one once. Today he stabbed him with a pen. (My other son got a scratch down his back from it - he didn't break the skin)

Obviously he's in big trouble. He's spending the rest of the day in his room doing homework and reading. He's been told he will no longer be allowed to watch movies above a "G" rating (I'd been letting him watch ones which were more violent). I had been considering letting have a sleepover, but that's not going to happen.

I have also told him that he has one more chance - one more outburst that gets anywhere near that level and he will be homeschooling and by my side 24/7. He is really enjoying school and doing very well there and I hate using homeschooling as a punishment, but I feel like I can't trust him out of my sight right now. I'm totally bummed. My other kids and even dh have tried to tell me recently that this son was really having a problem and I kind of blew it off. As a youngest child I know how frustrating it is never to "win". Still, I can't ignore it anymore.

What would you do? What do you do - those of you who have multiple boys? My boys' father (not my dh) had big issues with anger which made my 6.5 years with him a living h*ll. I'm afraid I'll over-react to this issue. I'm also afraid I'll under-react, you know?

The boy in question has been in tears ever since, coming to get hugs and assurances from me, but I feel like they're crocodile tears. His dad used to use tears as a final weapon - if anger and intimidation didn't work, he'd cry so you'd give in. Bleah! ick! I hate this stuff.

To make it worse, I'd had the best intentions of "doing" things with my kids because we were having issues right before spring break. Well, dh has the car and will have the car every day this break. It is snowing!! and the forecast says rain/snow the rest of the week. We could walk places except dd is sick and there's no one to stay with her.

I need good thoughts, people - any that you can send my way. I'm going to read and read aloud to these kids. I will think of other things to do, but I am not feeling like the best mom these days.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It sounds like he needs big time limits but also "tomato staking". Bringing him home 24/7 would of course be one version of that. Another version might be him working with your dh all weekends and maybe even in the evenings on some big project that your dh wants to get done - maybe landscaping your yard? A big home improvement project? I guess what I'm saying is that you want to have a combination of loss of privileges because he isn't showing sufficient maturity and specific training that teaches him how to be a "man" who has self control and knows how to interact with others.

[Amy in Orlando]

((Jennifer)) I hate days like you're having - times like you're having. We certainly have our share around here and it's very frustrating. I know I have a hard time because everything my boys seem to do is physical, even when they're just playing. I deal often with the two against one dynamic.

Interestingly, my oldest is always one of the two. In fact, I think this is important. I wouldn't call any of my kids mean or violent, even, but my oldest has a "way" of instigating things while appearing blameless. To that end, I have spent a lot of time with him lately discussing manipulation and exploiting others' weakeness. Both dh and I have have helped him see where his behavior to this end has to stop and we have been holding him accountable. As far as the younger two go, it's almost always the one that gets picked on. Dh and I have been working with him a lot to make better choices and handle his anger in these kinds of situations. It's slow going, but it seems to be making a difference.

I can empathize with your mixed emotions about your boys' behavior and your ex's behavior. As much as is humanly possible, I think you have to try to keep the two apart. Certainly you're gong to react strongly given your past, but don't put too much of your ex's traits onto them. But, never haven been in that exact situation, I don't know if this is good advice or not. Way to be wishy-washy, huh?

I disagree with using homeschooling as a punishment or a threat. It seems like that could make everyone's lives really miserable. I DO agree with everything else you've done to handle the situation. Could you let him remain in school, but insist he be with you at all other times?

You've got the week with the break to spend a lot of time with him and maybe get things going in the right direction. Can you sit down with the boys and brainstorm about ways to spend your time since you won't have the car?

Wish I had more concrete suggestions for you, but we're in the middle of this ourselves and still figuring it out.

Hang in there.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I need good thoughts, people - any that you can send my way. I'm going to read and read aloud to these kids. I will think of other things to do, but I am not feeling like the best mom these days.

Sending you lots of good thoughts, Jennifer.


{{{{{{{J}}}}}}}

[Rosie_0801]

I think you need to take a holistic approach. It takes two to tango after all, or in your case it might take three. I don't think punishing is the answer, as he is only half or a third of the problem. I think it would be better to create situations for the guys to work and achieve together, where they each have shares in the others' success. Make them feel like they are a team. I would also tell them you have a special character challenge for each of them, that you want them to know that each boy has one, but you aren't going to tell what the others' challenge is because it's personal and private. Then take them each for a seperate chat and explain that you aren't happy with whatever particular habit they have that is contributing to the problems, and what you want them to do instead. That may be explaining how the others rope that particular child into their arguments, the sorts of things they say to do that, and that in future you want him to say "if you want to fight about that, go ahead, but I don't so leave me out of it." Then walk off so they can't trick you into joining their argument after all. Etc, etc.
I had plenty of practise at these sorts of chats during my years of being a guide leader :) When you catch them following this "advice" however clumsily, make sure you catch their eye and give them a smile or a wink.
Good luck with it!
Rosie