I need some help re "relational issues"...

[Colleen]

It's so difficult to come up with a title for these posts; you want people to read your post without necessarily putting it all out there, kwim? Any-hoo, I am hoping to get advice from those who have endured marital problems. Not just your everyday ups and downs, but ongoing difficulties that were...much deeper. If you had older children at the time, how did you help them deal with their feelings about the whole mess? My oldest is old enough to be aware of the situation, to worry about divorce and so on. He and I have a good relationship; we communicate well. But I am honestly at a loss as to how to ease his pain other than to remind him that he is loved, that his feelings are normal, and that he can always talk to me, to his dad, or to a number of other adult mentors with whom he is close.

My heart hurts for him and I could really use some help here. You may send me a private message if you're more comfortable with that. Thanks so much.

[Karen in CO]

You will want him to know that it has nothing to do with him and be honest enough to admit that there is trouble. You don't want to share so much that you burden him with adult issues, but share enough to validate the fact that there are problems.

It is really even more difficult to discuss it with him when you are unsure of whether the problem will be resolved without separating the family. You can't make it okay with him. You can just make sure that he understands that it is not his fault. If you and your husband could talk to him together that would help. You want him to see that you are both trying to make it work. You also want him to know that no matter what, you both love him. He will probably have anger and uncertainty just like you and your dh have.

Sorry you are going through this. It hurts.

[Michelle T]

like that. But if he did, I would reassure him that nothing going on was his fault, that it is normal for married couples to have friction sometimes, that he would be well taken care of and loved no matter what happened. I would encourage him to talk to me or his dad about any concerns he had.

But unless divorce looked imminent, I don't think I would really go into that, just stress that sometimes married people go through difficult times, and it has nothing to do with the children.
Michelle T

[Elaine]

:grouphug:Oh, ((Colleen)) is it coming to that? Gosh, I have no helpful advice except to say that I will keep you in prayer. I will pray that God gives you wisdom in the conversations that you do have with Jan.

[Jenny in Atl]

It's so hard. My husband is a child of divorce and all I can do is send a (((hug)). I agree with the other posts, most important is for him to see it's not his fault. That both parents love him and will always be there for him. It's one of the hardest things. :sad:

[Joanne]

{{hugs}}

You are already doing what I'd suggest; being age appropriately authentic and honest.

What I have in terms of experience and opinion has to do with what happens after a decision to separate and divorce has been made.

Oh, one other thing. If the marital issues involve untreated or undertreated mental, emotional or addiction issues, I'd suggest therapy designed to assist a child with processing that.

[Colleen]

Those comments were helpful to me, Karen; they resonated with where I'm at and what I'm trying to do for him. Yes, it hurts. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Colleen]

Thanks, Michelle. My oldest is more aware, not just in terms of age but in terms of emotion, than my second son. I worry about him, because I want him to be able to process his feelings rather than "stuff" them.

[Colleen]

Oh, ((Colleen)) is it coming to that? Gosh, I have no helpful advice except to say that I will keep you in prayer. I will pray that God gives you wisdom in the conversations that you do have with Jan.

That means a lot to me, Laney. I myself don't know what it's coming to. We are here, together, because we have children and a business. We need to make some forward progress but are going in circles instead. Thanks for the hugs. Funny how cyber-hugs bring tears to my eyes...

[Mama Bear]

I'm sorry you're all experiencing strife, in any form, at any level.

If you're of a mind to do so, I think one of the most useful things for children to see and experience is the process of resolution and efforts to connect. To that end, I'd strongly suggest getting things like "The Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage," anything by Dr. John Gottman, Steven Covey's "How to Create a Family Mission Statement" on tape or CD. Make a commitment with your spouse to listen to these things (even if he does it grudgingly), even (maybe especially) with the kids, perhaps as you run errands, etc. If you can do this and involve the kids in the process of family work (not the adult issues, but the family ones -- in particular the Mission Statement), their ability to process whatever arises is strengthened. Because fear arises from the not knowing, make there be good stuff to be known.

It's important for all of you to be able to feel like you're in an environment where you're valued, heard, and an important part of the group. I think (guessing here) that the lack of those things may be at the root of the issue for all of you.

Even if you listen to the above and decide parts are completely kooky, that's something you can discuss as a family, as a part of strengthening the whole family. Even if your politics are very different from some of the authors' (and I know they are ;) ), there's still an awful lot to be gained, not the least of which is the conversation surrounding doing something palpably GOOD for you all.

I suspect that the act of doing such a thing seems emotionally daunting right now. If so, actually doing it couldn't be more important. Hang in there, friend. I'll be praying over here.

:grouphug:

[Colleen]

nt

[Colleen]

nt

[Mom2legomaniacs]

I am sorry you are having a difficult time in this area. It can't make for a lot happiness. I really hope you find that peace and happiness. So sorry, dear!

[Colleen]

I think one of the most useful things for children to see and experience is the process of resolution and efforts to connect.

That makes good sense. At this point, I am kinda...what shall I say...an island. I am unsure how to put your suggestions into practice right now but I am making note of the suggestions. (((Thank you))).

[Kelli in TN]

Colleen, I am sorry it is so hard.

The things I remember as being the worst (other than the drinking, my stepfather's inappropriate attraction to me, and visiting my mom in the hospital after the plastic surgeon put her face back together) was that mom was very open with me. Way too open. There was no attempt to shield me or my much younger brother from any of the ugliness. And it was back and forth between "I love him, we can work this out" to "We are leaving, pack up the car."

I remember running away in the middle of the night, many, many times. And then coming home the next morning. And then a couple of weeks later, doing it all over again.

So, I think your situation may not be quite as extreme as 99% of my childhood was, but still there could be lessons in there.

I doubt you are doing any of this, but I am going to type it out anyway in case there is perhaps a lurker today or in the future who might see this in their own life.....

Don't overburden a child, even an older, mature child, with so much that it steals the joy of childhood away.
Don't act on a decision until you are pretty sure it really is THE decision. (I don't mean don't reconcile, just don't willy nilly about the whole thing)

I hope that somehow there can be a breakthrough in your marriage and you can both find joy and peace with one another. I will keep you in my prayers daily.

[JudoMom]

We are here, together, because we have children and a business. We need to make some forward progress but are going in circles instead.

Colleen,

I will pray for forward progress for you & Hans. I don't have any advice to offer, but I will pray for Jan as well. :grouphug:

[Elaine]

Have you ever listened to the tape/CD by Emerson Eggrich? It's about respect, mutual respect and it greatly helped me to change my attitude concerning my husband and how I treat him. Also realizing that I am responsible for my own emotional well-being.


And, hey, this should cheer you right up...I am now a Honeymaking Bee!:coolgleamA:

[Rebecca in GA]

Colleen, I pm'd you.

[Doran]

My heart is so heavy for you. And, for once in my life, I am short on words. I wish I could fix this for you, but instead I will hold you in my heart and ask that you be given clarity on how to proceed. And, I'll hold your boys there, too, hoping that their maturity, such as it is, will step up to meet their innocence in ways that will protect their tender hearts.

I'm here if you want to "chat". I'm here if you don't. And, I'm sorry.

Doran

[Jennifer in MI]

((Colleen)) I'm so sorry. Please know that I'll be praying for you and your family.

[PariSarah]

No help, no wisdom, no experience. I wish I could help.

My heartfelt best wishes for you . . .

[Eliana]

(((Colleen)))

I've been there as a child surviving divorce, but have no experience with marital difficulties from a spousal perspective... so evaluate my input accordingly!

It is wonderful that you have a strong relationship with your son!

Given that, my instinct would be to handle this the way I do many other complex/intense topics - spend a lot of time with general, bonding conversation and make openings for a kid to ask questions or bring up concerns and then answer/respond to those with age/developmentally appropriate responses.

I wouldn't bring up divorce if he hasn't, unless that is/becomes inevitable, but if it is a possibility I would be candid about that in responding to questions.

I think there are a few really key things you want your kids to get out of any conversations on the topics:

1) This isn't about them. It is often illogical, but kids tend to assume that anything going on is about them.

2) That no matter what happens to the marriage, that they will always be loved and taken care of.

3) I'm not sure how to say this succinctly... the greatest gift my mother gave me through the divorce and afterwards was silence.

She never spoke negatively of my father either to us or in our presence; she kept a lot of her pain from us.... and she actively promoted our ongoing relationship with our father. (For one year we were on the other side of the country from my Dad - he visited as often as he could, but when he did, she moved in with friends and let him stay at the house with us!)

When he remarried and had other kids and became, for a period of time, more distant she both advocated for us to him and made sure we remembered how much we meant to him... she covered for him at times too. (Though I only just found this out last week!) She took the blame for canceling visits to his house sometimes, and softened things at times.

You'd have to know my mother to know how incredible all of this is - she's a fairly impulsive person and, in her closest relationships, more likely to express a feeling in the moment and mend fences later than to bite her tongue...

My stepmother was not so reticent, and her judgmental attitude towards my mother really hurt, but when it came from my father too it was devastating.

I guess I'm trying to state the obvious... conflict between parents is one thing, and if kids feel secure, isn't too traumatic, but hearing/seeing one parent put down another, directly or indirectly, or when a parent does what my stepmother did during her divorce from my father - she tried to make herself the victim in the eyes of my half-siblings, she shared her pain and anger in ways I feel were inappropriate - that is so incredibly painful and difficult and, imnsho, damaging to kids.

My world was shattered by my parent's divorce - it was civilized and calm and all that, but the end of their marriage was devastating for me, and the adjustments were very hard. ...but it was the conflicts after my father remarried which were more scarring, the divorce pain healed cleanly (thanks to the care and energy both my parents put into supporting us all through it).

I hadn't realized how much that brief period of time had hurt all three of us kids until, not that many years ago, my parents became close again (not romantically, but as friends) and we heard our dad express what a special thing their marriage had been and how much he appreciated what our mother had put into our relationship with him over the years. It healed something we hadn't realized was broken - and impressed upon me how much that kind of conflict can hurt a child.


Way more information than you really needed, but I am too frazzled (Purim is almost here!! Purim is almost here!!!! Costumes, baking, baskets, shopping, festive meal planning.... hurrah!) to be able to think clearly enough to give you an edited version with just the relevant bits left it. *sigh*

I hope you will forgive my presumption, but I would strongly recommend speaking to a counselor about your marriage. I think it might be very helpful to sort through all the pieces with an experienced, compassionate professional... to sift needs from wants, to find the unmet needs, the essence of the things which eat at your heart, the hidden strengths that might be there... and to give you a space in which you can explore your options and their consequences.

I want to keep typing and typing hoping that my fingers will come up with some of the wisdom or insight I'm completely lacking here...

I will pray for you, and hold you in my heart through this. ((Colleen))) :grouphug:

[Mamagistra]

(((Colleen)))

[Whisperlily]

:grouphug: I don't have any wise words, but you have my prayers.

[Caroline]

We had issues last year. My oldest is the same age as yours. I don't think I did a good job. I wish now that I had spent more time with him. I wish I had hugged him more. I think I treated him as if he were younger than he was.

Now things are better at our house. And I have made a huge effort with Alex, my 12 year old. I make time to go out to lunch or dinner with him alone every couple of weeks. We are reading the same books (The Lordof the Rings Trilogy, Animal Vegetable Miracle, and Friday Night Lights.)

I will keep your family in my thoughts.

[Colleen]

The things I remember as being the worst (other than the drinking, my stepfather's inappropriate attraction to me, and visiting my mom in the hospital after the plastic surgeon put her face back together) was that mom was very open with me. Way too open. There was no attempt to shield me or my much younger brother from any of the ugliness. And it was back and forth between "I love him, we can work this out" to "We are leaving, pack up the car."

That sounds horrific. I am so sorry you had to live with that, (((Kelli))). My situation is certainly nothing like that, thank goodness.

I doubt you are doing any of this, but I am going to type it out anyway in case there is perhaps a lurker today or in the future who might see this in their own life.....

I appreciate your candor and I'm sure others do as well. You know, whenever I share something private on this World Wide Web, part of me thinks, "Why the heck am I willing to put this out there?" but I am just too "real" (not always a good thing, I s'pose) to share the good times and the mundane details and the silliness without putting the muck and mud out there, too. And I always hope that in some small way, that real-ness might speak to someone else, help someone else.

Thanks, Kelli, for your advice and your support.

[OnTheBrink]

I have no advice that is different from what's already been said. I do agree with the recommendations to read (or listen to) the Love and Respect book, as well as "The Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage." I encourage both you and your dh to read them; if he won't, then you might benefit from them, just for some perspective.

I'm really sorry things aren't going well. (((((HUGS)))))

[Colleen]

Have you ever listened to the tape/CD by Emerson Eggrich?

Do you own it?

And, hey, this should cheer you right up...I am now a Honeymaking Bee!:coolgleamA:

Yee haw! You're makin' progress!:hurray:

[Tami]

I have been in your situation. Marital issues are the most painful to endure - it always seemed to me that everyone had a happy marriage -- except ME! Not true of course, but...

My situation involved physical abuse and ended in divorce. If there is physical abuse or infidelity going on, I suppose that is the likely outcome. Substance abuse is also difficult.

However, if this is a case of falling "out of love" and growing apart, without the complications of abuse or infidelity, you can take heart!!! It is possible to fall back in love again, and it is fairly straight forward. All relationships endure periods of hard times, times when you wonder where the person you fell in love with has vaporized to?!

Dr. Bill Harley (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html) has helped thousands of couples overcome affairs, falling out of love, and relational difficulties. If you are willing to follow his precepts, you have a good chance of falling in love again. Would you be willing to see a Marriage Builders counselor in your area?

In the meantime, may I suggest looking at ways that your marriage is currently benefiting you? Is he a good provider? Does his income enable you to HS? Divorce would likely force you to work full time. What things about him are good and noble? What about him did you first fall in love with?

Here's the advice I can offer you for the week. Starting tomorrow do 3 things.

1) Voice no disrespectful judgements. Don't try to change him or tell him he is wrong.

2) No demands. Don't threaten, demand, or give any ultimatums.

3) Don't fantasize about divorce or speak of it. Unless there is abuse, divorce will only bring you a new set of problems and stresses. It is to your advantage to remain married, unless there are extreme circumstances.

Hang loose for a while. Reconnect with your girlfriends. Reconnect with your church and pastor. Seek Godly counsel from those in your church fellowship that you trust. Get accountability for the both of you. Bring this issue from the darkness into the light, and it will have a lot less power. You can begin the road back to a healthy marriage on your own, with or without your husband. Follow the first steps I gave you.

My heart goes out to you. Keep covenant. Don't give up. God is a very present Help in times of sorrow.

You are in my daily prayers.

Love and hugs,
Tami

[Rosie_0801]

My parents finally divorced when I was 18, which frankly came as a relief. My brother was your son's age, he certainly didn't see it that way.

I think all you can do is explain all relationships have problems and sometimes the people involved don't know how to fix them or talk about them properly and need to learn new relationship skills. Relationship skills are things like remembering to share, take it in turns, "look at it from their perspective" or whatever the usual ones are that you repeat like a broken record :) Explain that kids have to learn relationship skills so they can make friends, but mums and dads have to learn relationship skills so they can stay friends with each other, and it's a very tricky thing to do for adults. It's not so hard for kids, because everyone has to learn to share, and no one likes people who don't. It's harder for mums and dads, because mums and dads have different types of relationship skills, and it's a bit like a secret code. So, mums use women's relationship skills when they talk, and dads use men's relationship skills when they talk. Women's relationship skills don't work very well when you are talking to a man, and men's don't work very well when talking to a woman, so mums and dads have to learn each others secret codes, and that's hard because most people aren't very good at explaining it. Lots of people don't even know that they have different codes, which really doesn't help! Luckily some people have written books about that sort of thing, so reading them can help mums and dads learn each other's codes. Or they can go to see a councillor, who is a bit like an interpreter in these situations. It might help if you use an analogy about buying presents. Just pretend your son loves cricket and thinks its the greatest thing in the whole world. One day, he wakes up and decides he wants to buy a great present for his brother. So, he goes and buys the best new cricket ball in the shop. The problem is, his brother doesn't even like cricket. What happens? Brother no 1 gets upset that his present is rejected (and he thought he was doing a great thing) and brother no 2 gets offended that he was given a present that his brother *should* have known he wouldn't want. It's the same with mums and dads if they don't speak each other's code, and it takes just as long to learn each other's codes as it takes to learn Latin, so it requires a lot of time and effort, and even if mum and dad are both trying, they still forget stuff a lot.
If it's possible, let your son know one or two of the "bite sized" problems and explain how you and your hubby are trying to solve them, and show him any books that are giving you ideas on how to solve them. Crazy as it seems, it's good for the older kids to see some of this. It doesn't hurt them to learn that marriages are not perfect, and it's very important for them to learn that there are ways to try and fix it up when it's going wrong. If possible, tell him why the problem started. You (plural) forgot to make time to hang out together, you (plural) forgot how to argue politely and started shouting instead (or whatever.) If you go to counselling, ask the counsellor to write a little note to the kids at the end of each session with just enough info to reassure the kids that you are both making progress on your issues. Concrete stuff like "today we talked about X" (if X isn't too personal!) and your parents decided to try and do Y to fix the problem. The note has to be true, because they'll be watching :bigear: and probably reminding you! It doesn't have to be the whole truth!!
If it comes to the crunch, you have to explain that mum and dad still love all the kids, but they have to live in different houses because they aren't friends anymore. Then you have to do your best to encourage the father/child relationships because most men don't actually know how to do it, and *everyone* will suffer if those relationships aren't maintained.

I hope some of this translates into something comprehensible and helpful. Remind them of times when they stopped being friends with people. All the nitty gritties of marriage will be way too much info for kids, but friendship they can understand and explaining that married people are supposed to be each other's best friend makes sense. It'll also make sense if you say that you and your hubby don't feel like best friends any more and you have to find ways to change that, or that you (plural) don't know if you want to be best friends anymore (etc.)

Good luck.
Rosie

[Colleen]

I know this is not the forum to seek marital counseling, as per board rules. My post is somewhat "borderline" because it's difficult to talk about helping children through these rough patches without addressing marital challenges in general. But that was my goal here; to hear how others have held their older children's hands in the midst of difficult, uncertain times like this. I want to be careful that we don't go down the marriage counseling avenue. I genuinely appreciate the support and advice offered. It means a great deal to me.

[Colleen]

nt

[Elaine]

I do have it, I can send it to you if you'd like. I'll PM you.

[Colleen]

That really was a gift your mother gave you. Her respectful, mature behavior is a testimony of her love for you and your siblings.

(Purim is almost here!! Purim is almost here!!!! Costumes, baking, baskets, shopping, festive meal planning.... hurrah!)

Have you happened to watch For Your Consideration? I watch a limited number of movies but am partial to Christopher Guest's humor. It revolves around the filming of a movie called "Home for Purim". The best bit is when the Hollywood big-wigs suggest (read: insist) the producers tone down the "Jewishness" of the movie ~ despite the fact that Purim is a central theme. Result? It's ultimately released as "Home for Thanksgiving". :001_rolleyes:

[Colleen]

Thank you so much for your input. I love the way you explained all that. When can you move in?;)

[Danestress]

Even the silent kind. It's awful to have conflict for an audience, and kids are kind of an audience. Even if you aren't really arguing, and even if they aren't really awake or around during a "discussion" I just think it's really hard to try to sort through even normal problems AND suffer the guilt and worry about how the kids might be feeling.

On the other hand, my parents hid ALL conflict from me (and believe me, I know now that they had gracious plenty of it) so that I married not really understanding that a certain amount of conflict is normal. I was completely freaked out when we had any differences because I'd never seen parents have them and work through them. So a certain amount of seeing parents deal with disappointment and aggravation in marriage is maybe healthy. Just if that's a bit of solace.

I'm sorry you are in a rough patch. I can think of worse reasons to stay together then the children and a business (which is really to say "we have built a whole life around this marriage") and the fact that you want to honor commitments. Just being there for whatever reason is something, and if you really ask yourself, "Why is he here, why am I here" you can sort out what to say to a son about the things that bind you together when you can't remember what you liked in the first place.

((((Colleen))))) I'll say a prayer for you all tonight.

Dana/in NC/stress

[Eliana]

That really was a gift your mother gave you. Her respectful, mature behavior is a testimony of her love for you and your siblings.



Have you happened to watch For Your Consideration? I watch a limited number of movies but am partial to Christopher Guest's humor. It revolves around the filming of a movie called "Home for Purim". The best bit is when the Hollywood big-wigs suggest (read: insist) the producers tone down the "Jewishness" of the movie ~ despite the fact that Purim is a central theme. Result? It's ultimately released as "Home for Thanksgiving". :001_rolleyes:

:lol: You narrowly missed being billed for a new keyboard, my dear!

No, I haven't seen it... but the library has it, and I placed it on hold - thanks for the suggestion!

[Liz CA]

That sounds horrific. I am so sorry you had to live with that, (((Kelli))). My situation is certainly nothing like that, thank goodness.



I appreciate your candor and I'm sure others do as well. You know, whenever I share something private on this World Wide Web, part of me thinks, "Why the heck am I willing to put this out there?" but I am just too "real" (not always a good thing, I s'pose) to share the good times and the mundane details and the silliness without putting the muck and mud out there, too. And I always hope that in some small way, that real-ness might speak to someone else, help someone else.

Thanks, Kelli, for your advice and your support.
think they are very helpful. In our family it has helped to point out why there are (marked) differences. For instance, *Dad grew up this way...I grew up the other way...* and that is why we sometimes have difficulties.
I especially think that one has to think long and hard about age appropriateness. I may remember wrong but I had the impression your children were rather young (eldest barely a teen?). If you know you have obvious struggles but you also know divorce is not an option, it may assure him tremendously to know that. If you cannot make that statement truthfully, emphasize that even adults have to work on their relationships and it is normal to be in conflict sometimes.
Perhaps this sounds lame to you because your pain is deeper and your burden larger than that - but it is probably all a young man needs to know right now.

[Liz CA]

in your signature line?

[Colleen]

Have you seen any of Christopher Guest's other movies? He and the rest of the troupe have a sort of skewed sense of humor which probably doesn't appeal to everyone but I absolutely love it. This one (For Your Consideration) is actually his most structured film (the rest are more "mockumentaries") and I didn't like it quite as much, but it still had some priceless moments. Case in point, the family in the mock film sitting around the table singing the Purim song (composed by Guest and Eugene Levy). Click on the link below and you can hear it and sing along...

"Purim, Purim, Purim it's the time to have some fun,
By drowning out the sound of Haman's na-a-a-ame.
Purim, Purim, Purim spread the news to everyone,
That Mordechai and Esther saved the day!"


http://wip.warnerbros.com/foryourconsideration/homeforpurim/

[Barb F. PA in AZ]

I've been sitting here for the last 15 minutes trying to come up with something insightful to say. See, we went through this for years...pretty much since we got married...and it all came to a head last year. Some may wonder why two people who always seem to be working past each other would get married in the first place, but for us, the good times were always very, very good and made me wonder why things wouldn't simply stay that way. So the back and forth, back and forth drove the children (and me) crazy. They never knew which Daddy they were going to get.

There was absolutely nothing I could come up with to make my children's life easier during the awful times. The one thing I did was to allow and encourage them to talk to their dad directly about how his behavior affected them, once he had settled down. I think this gave them a feeling of control over the situation and eventually led to his agreeing to go to behavioral therapy and get meds for his OCD (which was causing the bulk of his irrational fear and anger he'd walked around with his whole life). But during it, all I could do was act as a sounding board, apologize when I would lose my temper, and just acknowledge how difficult it was for them sometimes. The worst thing to do is to pretend nothing is happening or try to make excuses for yours or his behavior. As a child, my mom thought she needed to try and help us understand my dad's abusive behavior, so she would come up with the most inane excuses relating to stress at work or whatever. Not good. It made me feel like she thought it was my fault for triggering his outbursts. It didn't make me understand at all, it just made me feel like she was ganging up with him against me and I was totally powerless.

I remember telling my kids that I loved their father, but there is a reason we don't live with everyone we love. Some people aren't as compatible as others. That sort of gave them the opening to ask the divorce question I knew they were dying to, but afraid to ask. So in response, I told them no, we have no plans to divorce before they were grown but something was going to have to change before we could be a functional family and I was working on figuring just what it was.

It's difficult all around for everyone. Hugs, Colleen.

Barb

[Beth in OH]

Going in circles....I can address this one. Our family has been under a lot of relational stress for awhile (almost two years) for a number of reasons. It involves dc, too, not just dh and I. I am a capable, strong person. I am accustomed to leading (read "controlling") people to desired results. By last fall, I was becoming depressed and insane trying to fix things. Add in my 46 yo hormonal dysfunction. By Oct. I knew I needed help, because I needed peace in my life.

I realized that I can't change anyone else, but I could both take care of and change me. Here are some things I did: I got a physical and discussed mood swings with my Dr. I now am treating low thyroid and taking medication to help with mood swings (there are many ways to address moods, I went this route). I began exercising 4-5 times per week. I found other friendships through a women's prayer group (not usually my cuppa, but I kept looking until I found one I liked--change means stretching.) I began reading books to help me get my arms around healthy relationships. I discovered that I expected some things from relationships that were not healthy. I also discovered that some of the things that were bothering me in my relationships should have been bothering me. We were not all treating each other right.

Finally, I sought some in person support in the form of an Al-Anon family group. No, there are no alcoholics in my immediate family or in the family I was raised in. (My mom is an adult child of an alcoholic, though) Nonetheless, I was seeing similar dysfunction in my family's relationships. Through that group and its suggested reading, I've been learning to let go of trying to control others behavior. This has been a real paradigm shift for me. It has also brought me many happier moments/days, a general feeling of peace, an ability to see problems as discrete events rather than an overarching life sentence, and it has shown me how I have contributed to my relationship problems. Result: I'm doing a lot better, even though nobody else has changed.

There has also been some relationship progress, although it's a bumpy road. Once I stopped taking responsibility for everyone else, they had to pick up the slack for themselves. It's been painful sometimes, but others have begun to mature, too. Oh, and a big side benefit--my spiritual life has improved tenfold.

Like some others have said, I don't know if any of this applies to your situation. I'm posting this because this path has helped me, and others will be reading this thread. (((Colleen))) Look at this time in your life as an opportunity for everyone to grow. It stinks, and it hurts. Nevertheless, it can be a refining process that can produce better relationships at the end.

I'll be praying for you.

Beth

[*anj*]

I'm praying, Colleen.

[Cindy in FL.]

Colleen,

Thinking of you today and praying for wisdom for you. Marriage/relationships can be so difficult. I told my dh the other day that we are incompatible. I said it in a joking manner, but there's a real sense in which it is true. We have 5 sons and I feel like a stranger in my house, like I do not belong in my own life. That's not to say that I don't love my family, I do. But I seem to have lost the ability to enjoy them.

I don't know your particular situation, but I have always enjoyed reading your posts here and appreciate the way you express yourself. I am hoping the best for you and your family.

Cindy

[Colleen]

Please know that I've read any additional replies since I last posted. I value all your comments, truly.