Chiropractors, massage therapists or TMJ sufferers please chime in.

[Scarlett]

If you thought you needed an adjustment and a massage which would you have first---and would this be ok to do on the same day? I am in such pain...my face feels like someone has hit me with a bat. (actually never experienced that, but it hurts soooo bad). And it now radiates down into my neck, right shoulder, right arm (all the way to the tips of my fingers which feel sort of numb as I type this) my right hip, and my foot. I guess all my right side, but those spots are super tender and sore.

I feel like this all originates with my jaw. The dentist wants me to wear a mouth piece 24/7 for 6 months which will change my bite and THEN wear braces to make my teeth fit new bite. I'm not doing this. I've researched this 'plan' and I'm just not doing it. I think my particular brand of TMJ has to do with my jaw muscles being swollen and pushing the rest of my skeletal system out of line. I don't grind my teeth, so that isn't what is causing it. I think stress contributes, whether physical or emotional...for instance this is the second time I've had a flare up after painting. The masseuse helped me tremendously last time so I'm trying that again tomorrow...just don't know if I need an adjustment too, or just the massage. Oh and she is trained in doing a massage on the inside of my mouth, jaw muscles, and I'm going to try that tomorrow.

I guess I'm just looking for fellow sufferers and or opinions from chiropractors and masseuses.

I also think I need some exercise, but don't know where to start.

[Mekanamom]

For a time, I worked for a chiropractor. He also had massage therapists on staff.

He always suggested the massage first, then the adjustment. Once the muscles are relaxed, it is easier to do the adjustment.

He also had lots of advice on stretching and exercise (and pain management)... he had all kinds of print-outs ready to hand to people for different issues. Ask your chiropractor what type of exercise he/she recommends. It's a place to start, anyway.

Good luck!! I hope you get to the bottom of it and find a way to manage this. Your chiro should have lots of advice for you.

[Mama Bear]

I'm both a massage therapist and TMJD sufferer. I'm sorry you're having this. Pervasive, persistent pain is the worst.

Chiropractic work and massage are complimentary. Having one without the other is for some people sort of like trying to adjust window-washing scaffolding without moving the ropes and pulleys. Putting your skeleton in place while it's still suffering the wrench of out of sorts muscles means it won't stay where it's put. If soft tissue work is what you need but your framework is off, you'll still have pain. If you can recieve both methods without getting off the table, that would be great and you're a lucky woman. :)

The oral massage was quite effective for me. Have you seen a maxillofascial doc? The one I saw (a surgeon) prescribed biofeedback with a nurse in his office (it was a Godsend) and showed me stuff I could do to change the dynamic in my neck, skull, and face muscles. The thing I still use the most, nearly 20 years later, is this: let your jaw relax a bit and place the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth, just behind your front teeth. Stay like that as you do stuff during the day. You'll find yourself forgetting as you do other things, but just keep going back to that position and over the day you'll notice your face loosens up. It usually takes me about three days for the pain to disappear completely using this technique.

You're right about exercise helping. Start with whatever you can do with a minimum of discomfort and equipment: push-ups, triceps dips, even things like lunges and squats that also contribute to core strength will bolster your resilience in your head and neck. Be sure to stretch. As you gain muscle, you'll be able to push yourself harder without (much) backlash.

Also, have you ever tried taking turmeric and/or ginger? They're both powerful anti-inflammatories, with zero side effects for most. Ginger can cause heartburn in large quantities on an empty stomach, but I've yet to experience anything negative from the turmeric (curcumin is the active ingredient), even in large doses. The research on this is burgeoning at the moment -- "they" are finding these useful for prevention of Alzheimer's, etc., etc., etc. But the point here is: you need to drop the inflammation in order to reduce the pain. About 90% of the pain women experience is directly related to inflammation. I take huge doses of both, morning and evening, and the creakiness I was beginning to feel systemically and daily has all but disappeared. (This with hauling my floppy 27 pound little guy around in weird positions, lifting his chair, etc.)

Disclaimer: I have no business giving you or anyone the impression that I'm able to diagnose, treat, or prescribe for your condition. The above describes what works for me in my personal and professional experience.

Let me know how things work out!! :D

[Scarlett]

Thanks Mekanamom and MB. I have used a chiropractor for 20 years, but not been to see him in about a year. He is at least 30-45 minutes in the opposite direction as the masseuse...and there is a chiropractor right next door to the masseuse that many of my friends use. So I am thinking of switching to him so I can use both of them on the same day easily.

MB, your post was very informative. I read it two or three times and then I printed it off. I will definitely try the Ginger and tumeric because I am taking so much ibuprofin it worries me. I have researched TMJ extensively and your 'tongue behind your top teeth' trick is one I did learn, but had forgotten. Also, sitting incorrectly at the computer, sleeping with my hands under my chin (a habit I managed to break), setting my jaw in times of stress...all make the TMJ flare up.

I have not been to a maxillofascial doc, but my neighbor has. She gave me many hints too, AND this masseuse I found did a maxillofascial release on me which when I described it my neighbor said was one of the same things the doc did to her (and he is in another city 2 hours away).

[Mama Bear]

AND this masseuse I found did a maxillofascial release on me which when I described it my neighbor said was one of the same things the doc did to her (and he is in another city 2 hours away).

Hooray! The best facial/oral work I ever had was when I was in massage school and we were doing trigger point releases. Man, I was so relaxed I felt like jello. It was awesome.

FWIW -- I haven't taken ibuprofen in a couple of months. This is through PMS, clicking knees, even some shoulder and back twinges. I'm totally comfortable crediting the ginger and turmeric. :)

[PrairieAir]

Dh went the route of getting a specially made mouthpiece and going in for periodic checks with a TMDJ specialist. It was expensive, and he didn't notice too much difference. When he had his wisdome teeth removed the oral surgeon mentioned that TMJD pain tends to go away after about age 50. I know my mom no longer wears her mouthpiece and doesn't have problems with her jaw any more.

Recently dh went for an adjustment from the chiropractor. He decided to ask him about the TMJD problems he's been having and the pain in his ears. Our chiropractor told him he thinks a lot of the stuff they say about TMJD is baloney. He says he thinks that people tend to carry a lot of their stress--whether physical or mental/emotional--in their jaw muscles. We grit our teeth and tighten our jaws to move something heavy or to keep from blowing our tops in a difficult situation. He thinks people grinding their teeth at night is the body trying to loosen those muscles and fix itself. He recommended that dh start chewing gum occasionally to both exercise and relax the jaw muscle. Sounds too simple, but dh says most of his pain is gone after starting this a few weeks ago. Nothing else has helped him as much as this simple solution.

I have some problems with TMJD as well. It doesn't bother me as much as dh. Once in a while my jaw will start clicking incessantly and I have to go in for an adjustment before I lose my mind, not from the pain, but from the sound. One adjustment every year or so is about all it takes for me.

[Scarlett]

Thanks PA, your post makes me feel better and reinforces my belief that I don't need my bite altered. I talked to a doctor out in CA and he told me that was the equivilent of having a door on a house that wouldn't open and close properly and taking the roof off the house to make it fit the door. Utter nonsense. And yes, the 'plan' my dentist has is about $5K. Also, my teeth are naturally nearly perfectly straight...I've always been happy about that and the thought of wearing braces on my straight teeth just seems ludicrous to me!

I can 'feel' the stress in my jaw. I have got to learn how to manage the stress better. Maybe I just need to schedule a massage once a week! That sounds so extravagant but I can get a ton of massages for $5K.

[Rachel]

I find this thread really interesting as I have some different experiences. I am a long time sufferer of TMJ pain (since braces 20+ years ago), I get massages for pain, I worked for a chiropractor for years, and I'm currently going to school to get my Physician's Assistant degree.

A couple of things I have found.......
1. The $900 mouth guard thing never helped me much
2. Chewing gum makes my TMJ worse. In fact about 6 months ago after chewing gum daily for a week ro so, I had TMJ pain so bad I couldn't open my mouth for over a week........it took months before the pain subsided and now I probably won't ever chew gum again
3. I go to a pain specialist massage therapist and she is incredible and helps greatly....pressure point massage is most effective I believe, followed by relaxation technique.
4. Personally, I would never do massage and chiro on the same day. Now, here is why. What I've learned through my studies has changed my opinion on this........I used to think......massage equals loosened up for the chiro treatment. Now while it is important to be relaxed for chiro treatment to be most effective, there is such a thing as too relaxed and if you get any kind of deep massage that is exactly what you are. Now, if you just get your "feel good" swedish massage that may be different but for me who gets seriously deep, pain management type massage........you need 2 days to recoup. Your muscles can be so relaxed that a chiro treatment can actually do damage instead of help. It is the same concept of a muscle relaxer........the reason dr's typically prescribe them only for nighttime is because people take them, feel better and relaxed, and then they overdo it.........overstretching already relaxed muscles in ways they aren't meant to be stretched.........it is really the same thing.

So, personally I would get a massage the day or two before a treatment and then go to the chiropractor for an adjustment.

Just my 02 cents......

[Scarlett]

[QUOTE=Rachel;108210]

1. The $900 mouth guard thing never helped me much Ditto
2. Chewing gum makes my TMJ worse. In fact about 6 months ago after chewing gum daily for a week ro so, I had TMJ pain so bad I couldn't open my mouth for over a week........it took months before the pain subsided and now I probably won't ever chew gum again Ditto

4. Personally, I would never do massage and chiro on the same day.So, personally I would get a massage the day or two before a treatment and then go to the chiropractor for an adjustment.Just what I need to know! I have an appt for massage (deep tissue/plus the TMJ interior massage 1 hour long) and I will do the chiropractor on Wednesday Thanks!QUOTE]

Thanks so much!

[Rachel]

Make sure you let us know how it goes afterward! I'm anxious to hear how you feel.......

[Scarlett]

I had an 8:00 a.m. appt. One hour long. The first thing she did today was the interior massage of my jaw muscle. Oh. My. Word. That was just very very painful. The first thing she said when she put her hand in my mouth was 'Good Grief!' They were so tight she could barely get her fingers in to massage. She said my right side is a severe case of TMJ. Now the weirdest thing...yesterday my entire right side was hurting...even numb fingers and toes. Well, as I sat in a chair and she worked on my jaw, my left shoulder began to start hurting and knot up. I could feel it happening! It was as if the pain was moving from my jaw to my shoulder! So weird. She said it was normal because it is just all connected. She showed me how to massage my own jaw muscle, but I don't know if I will b e able to do it.

Anyway, after the painful (yet I could tell it was helpful) jaw muscle massage during which I felt like she was ripping my skin away from muscle or bone or something, she did a regular full body massage. So I feel pretty good now. I walked next door and set up an appt for Wednesday with the chiropractor.

Mama Bear, I asked her about ginger and tumeric for anti inflammatory and she said yes it works (her grandma swears by it too), but that some people are allergic to it....but that I would know right away if that is the case. Do I find that at the Health Food Store or where? I am off to try that today....and I want to ask you, how much of that you take? You said high doses, but how much?

I asked her what she thinks is causing me to tense up so bad and she said gum chewing, ice chomping and teeth grinding are the worst culprits. As I said though, I haven't chewed gum in 10 years, I have chewed ice and I am 99% positive I don't grind at night. There is no evidence of wear on my teeth from that...and I always feel better in the morning. She said in that case I'm just stressed and carrying my stress in my jaw and I've got to learn to relax more!!!!

I am determined to get a grip on this. I am going to start exercising and try to streghten my body, plus I think that will help me relax a b it too.

Thanks all for you helpful words.

[PrairieAir]

I thought about this later after I posted yesterday. You should really try yoga. I have only done it a few times--I'm lousy about following an exercise schedule--but it has really helped me when I did it. In fact, it was so helpful in relaxing muscles, I will now do it before going to the chiropractor unless I just can't move. The last time I tried that, I was able to skip the chiropractor altogether. I have a basic yoga video I got very cheaply at Borders. It doesn't seem like anything too special--certainly not a "workout"--but it helps me systematically relax my body and let all that tension go. It's really amazing how relaxed I feel afterwards. I don't seem to be able to do that on my own.

[Cadam]

After my car accident it was massage and then adjustment and he worked on my TMJ as well, made a world of difference so ask a good chiro about your jaw. The TMJ treatments hurt but they helped so much!

[Calming Tea]

jaw pain and after 3 years of braces I got them off today. I have not suffered any jaw pain in the entire last year of braces. It solved the problem! Another thing that helped was to make sure cold air isn't blowing on me, and to begin treatment for anxiety.

Also I was "taking care of" my dh when I had my period- the fast way if you KWIM and I completely stopped doing that. You may be doing other intermittent things with your mouth open that worsen jaw pain. (even excessive talking or singing.)

[Mama Bear]

Now the weirdest thing...yesterday my entire right side was hurting...even numb fingers and toes. Well, as I sat in a chair and she worked on my jaw, my left shoulder began to start hurting and knot up. I could feel it happening! It was as if the pain was moving from my jaw to my shoulder! So weird. She said it was normal because it is just all connected. She showed me how to massage my own jaw muscle, but I don't know if I will b e able to do it.


Mama Bear, I asked her about ginger and tumeric for anti inflammatory and she said yes it works (her grandma swears by it too), but that some people are allergic to it....but that I would know right away if that is the case. Do I find that at the Health Food Store or where? I am off to try that today....and I want to ask you, how much of that you take? You said high doses, but how much?




Yup to the "it's all connected" thing -- mine is the worst on my left side which is also my "problem" side: neck, shoulder, arm, hip, and knee pain (and surgery) all on left side.

Dosing: I take NSI (ordered from Vitacost -- cheapest source I've found) brand. Turmeric Extract Curcumin C3 Complex with BioPerine 1160mg/serving. I take one in the am, one pm. Two in the am and pm if I'm feeling creaky or having pain. Ginger Root (same brand) 1100 mg -- one am, one pm (with food to avoid heartburn). I'd suspect that any allergy might have more to do with other, even accidental ingredients (wheat, etc.) than the G or T -- but who knows? :)

Ditto on the deep tissue massage. It's important to note that if your massage causes discomfort, you need to be taking it easy, not looking for trouble in the form of a chiro appt. Most people, though, truly do not get actual deep tissue work (Rolfing), or even deep pressure. Most people can't handle that type of work -- it's really intense and often leaves bruises. Heck, it often makes people cry. Still, if you're already feeling like you've been somewhat adjusted via massage, whatever the level of pressure applied, you definitely aren't up for skeletal adjustments.

Scarlett, I'm guessing that your massage therapist did some trigger point work? That's often the most immediately effective thing when it comes to TMJD.

Glad things are easing up for you a bit. Let us know how the rest of your course of treatment goes. :)

[Scarlett]

Dosing: Ginger Root (same brand) 1100 mg -- one am, one pm (with food to avoid heartburn).

MB, I bought Ginger Root yesterday (at Wal-Mart nonetheless). I just wanted to clarify the dosage you are taking. 1100 mg total per day? Each capsule is 550, so I'm thinking you take one of those in the a.m. and one in the p.m. Correct?