Grammar suggestions for VS thinkers....

[RebeccaC]

Ok so I have been watching JaniceinNJ video and think maybe I could do this with my VS (visual spactial) boys. So far we have been doing Easy Grammar which is no where near what Jancie was doing. So my question is those of you hsing VS kids what have you used for grammar that has worked?

[Claire]

Nothing worked for my VS dd until we did Shurley Grammar. The oral repetition and analysis really helped. After that, Hake worked pretty well for us.

[Lori D.]

One is auditory-sequential, the other is visual spatial, and Winston Grammar Basic and Winston Advanced worked great for them. It comes with cards to "cue" the student and makes the program very hands-on. However, we just did it slowly, reading the teacher notes for the lesson, then doing 4 sentences a day on the white board, marking them with arrows, underlines, circles, etc. in various colored markers, reviewing and doing another 4 sentences the next day. Now we do it orally.

However -- Winston does not teach how to actual diagram, as in how to "chart" the sentence with all the lines and connections the way Janice did in her video. (Though, you can easily enough use a book on how to diagram to your grammar, once you learn the parts of speech, the noun functions, and what kinds of modifiers there are and what they do.) Rod & Staff grammar or Junior Analytical Grammar do that, though they are workbook/writing based grammar programs. My VSL could never have handled the workbook approach in the elementary and middle school years. *Maybe* he could do it by next year in 9th grade.

While I have never tied everything together in the fabulous way that Janice did, much of the grammar with do with Winston, we talk through the way she did with her kids, and how everything is working in the sentence "clicks" for my boys.

Just our experience! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Brenda in MA]

I used it almost as Lori described. I wrote the sentences on a white board, leaving a lot of space between the words and lines. My son placed the cards under the words, allowing him to see the color patterns made by typical sentences.

Brenda

[RebeccaC]

Thanks!!!!!! But I have a couple of more questions? My boys have been through all the EG except plus and Comic Strip Grammar could I start with Winston advanced or would I need to fall back on the basic? How long did it take y'all to get through each level?

And what is the difference between Shurley and Winston?

TIA,
Rebecca

[Lori D.]

Not familiar with Shurley Grammar, so I can't compare it to Winston. (But we had fun with Comic Strip Grammar, to! :001_smile:)


In answer to your question about starting Winston Grammar at the Advanced, yes, you could go straight to Advanced from any other grammar, as long as you understand:
- the 8 parts of speech (noun, pronoun, adjective, verb, adverb, preposition, conjunction, interjection)
- the 7 noun functions (subject, appositive, noun of direct address, predicate nominative, direct object, indirect object, object of the preposition)

There is also a brief review at the beginning of parts of speech and noun functions at the beginning of Winston Advanced. I have an OLD edition of Winston Advanced (1982), but this is the table of contents, in case that helps you see if there are any concepts that either you've already covered, or might need to cover to be prepared to use Winston Advanced.

The lesson numbering continues from Winston Basic (Basic ends at lesson 30, Advanced starts at 31). I use the quizzes as reviews rather than as written tests to gauge whether we can continue or need to go back and review more.

lesson 31-35 = review parts of speech
lesson 36-40 = review noun functions
lesson 41 = possessive adjectives
lessons 42-43 = possessive pronouns, nouns and adjectives
lesson 44-45 = possessive nouns
lesson 46-48 = pronouns and adjectives
lesson 49 = reflexives
lesson 50-52 = interrogative pronouns
quiz
lesson 53-55 = present participles
lesson 56 = past participles
lesson 57 = present and past participles
lesson 58 = correlative conjunctions
lesson 59-60 = simple infinitives
lesson 61-62 = simple gerunds
quiz
lesson 63-64 = subject/verb combinations
lesson 65-66 = clause indentification
lesson 67-88 = adverb clauses
lesson 69-70 = compound sentences
lesson 71 = complex sentences
quiz
lesson 72-73 = relative pronouns and adjective clauses
lesson 74-75 = ellipsed relative pronouns and embedded clauses
lesson 76-77 = noun clauses as direct objects
lesson 78 = noun clauses as indirect objects
lesson 79 = noun clauses as predicate nominatives
quiz
lesson 80 = noun clauses as objects of prepositions
lesson 81 = noun clauses as appositives
lesson 82 = noun clauses as subjects
lesson 83-85 = clause practice
post test

[LizzyBee]

My VSL loves Rod & Staff grammar and she loves diagramming sentences. If I tell her to do only so many, she'll ask if she can do more.

[Lori D.]

LOL! Bet she likes puzzle solving and critical thinking types of puzzles, too! : )

[RebeccaC]

Not familiar with Shurley Grammar, so I can't compare it to Winston. (But we had fun with Comic Strip Grammar, to! :001_smile:)


In answer to your question about starting Winston Grammar at the Advanced, yes, you could go straight to Advanced from any other grammar, as long as you understand:
- the 8 parts of speech (noun, pronoun, adjective, verb, adverb, preposition, conjunction, interjection)
- the 7 noun functions (subject, appositive, noun of direct address, predicate nominative, direct object, indirect object, object of the preposition)

There is also a brief review at the beginning of parts of speech and noun functions at the beginning of Winston Advanced. I have an OLD edition of Winston Advanced (1982), but this is the table of contents, in case that helps you see if there are any concepts that either you've already covered, or might need to cover to be prepared to use Winston Advanced.


Ok so for the next question :D I found the pretest on line and both ds missed conjunction, interjection, predicate nominative, appositive, and noun of direct address. So would basic be too babyish for a 14 and 15 year old? Did you use the cards and the student pages?

[Lori D.]

>> Did you use the cards... <<

While lots of people do use the cards in the way the program was designed, we never did, as our boys never really seemed to need or want to use the cards. They grasped the "clues" as to how to find a noun (or whatever the concept was) without needing the cards. However your students may find the cards very helpful -- every student is different. : )


>> Did you use the ... student pages? <<

Yes, we used both the Teacher and Student books -- BUT, again, not quite in the way designed. For example, in Winston Basic, we would go over the concept from the Teacher book. Then I wrote 4 sentences on the white board, and then the boy I was working with would mark the sentence. (Using difference colors of markers can help keep from things getting really confusing.) : )

By the end of Winston Basic, no matter WHAT the lesson was about, I had them marking EVERYTHING they had learned to date, which included:

1. underline the simple subject
2. double underline the verb of the simple predicate
(separate the subject and predicate with vertical slash marks)

Key to diagramming: once you know at the most basic level the "who/what" (subject) and "what happened" (predicate) of the sentence, everything else modifies (add on; gives detail) in some way! The more complicated the sentence, the better it is to start by asking, "What's the simple sentence here? What 2 or 3 words would boil this sentence down to its essence?"

(Tip: and when you come to a sentence that is a question, reword it as a statement to help you find the subject and simple predicate.)

(Another Tip: and watch out for those "elliptical" sentences; they are sentences in which the subject is implied, but not written down -- example: "Shut the door." The subject is implied "YOU shut the door." In grammar, we mark the missing implied subject with an ellipsis (those 3 periods together: …), which is why those are called "elliptical sentences.")

3. write above each word the abbrev. of what part of speech the word is
4. then use arrows to show what each adjective and adverb modifies
5. then mark parenthesis around each prepositional phrase, and use an arrow to show what the phrase modifies
6. then mark the verb as an action or linking (verb of being), as this helps clue you in to certain noun functions
7. then above each noun/pronoun, write the abbrev. of the noun function it is performing


>> So would Basic be too babyish for a 14 and 15 year old? <<

No, I don't think Winston is babyish at all. Basic and Advanced are the same in tone of instruction and tone of sentence examples. It's just that the practice sentences in Basic are more simple (i.e., shorter and not as complicated) because the student hasn't yet been exposed to more complex grammar topics.

If your students are very comfortable in understanding the noun functions and how to identify them out, then you won't need to go through Basic. If you do want the review of Basic, you can either:

- Do a fast review, a lesson a day (slow down on any lesson they struggle with and take 2-3 days to really grasp it). Doing 3 lessons a week at that speed, you'd get through all of Basic in 10-12 weeks, and could then spend the rest of the school year on Advanced, reviewing/finishing Advanced the following year.

- Or, use Basic and just review/practice the lessons covering the topics your students don't have down firmly.



>> I found the pretest on line and both ds missed conjunction, interjection, predicate nominative, appositive, and noun of direct address. <<

Watch the Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar video a few times and you'll all have (coordinating) conjunctions and interjections down! (LOL) I found the "clues" for identifying the 7 noun functions in Winston Basic very helpful, but you could easily use other grammar resources, as well. For example, I google-searched "predicate nominative" and came up with the following helpful websites/pages:

- The Tongue Untied: A Guide to Grammar, Punctuation and Style
(definition and examples of predicate nominative)
http://grammar.uoregon.edu/nouns/predicateN.html

- Jean Childs Young Middle School / Michelle S. Hayes / Language Arts / 8th Grade
(how to tell the difference between a predicate nominative and predicate adjective)
http://www.geocities.com/mshayes611/Predicate_Nominatives.htm

- Daily Grammar by Mr. Johanson
(defition of predicate nominative AND exercises to practice finding/using it)
http://www.dailygrammar.com/101to105.shtml


Long winded ramblings. Hope something there helps. Warmly, Lori

[Jan P.]

What is the JaniceinNJ video?
Thanks.

[Jan P.]

:(Never mind. I see that Janice in NJ has pulled her videos off of the internet. I would have loved to have seen it though.

Jan