Janice in NJ fans...check out her comment...

[Jane in NC]

on SWB's new blog (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/blog/). Both Susan and Janice give me food for thought. If you are like-minded, you won't want to miss these.

Happy Friday to all.
Jane

[MIch elle]

Did I miss something? :confused:

Oh, I went back & looked at the comments & see it now.

[Kfamily]

That was very interesting! Thanks for sharing it, Jane.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Wow.. Janice did a great job. I could have written that. She expresses exactly what I'm feeling. I'm ending up the last years of homeschooling VERY differenlty from my plan.

[lionfamily1999]

Not so much a fan of Janice in NJ, but I did enjoy the blog and the comments that came after. Thanks for sharing :)

[8FillTheHeart]

I agree with much of what Janice wrote. Homeschooling my younger kids is a completely different scenerio than high school. I do not like the options for high school and simply do the best I can. (I believe at this point, my attempts are superior to the other options available around me.)

I am completely disillusioned with online classes. I am no longer a believer or advocate for them. My experience is that they have been ok, but nothing stellar and definitely no better than what I can provide on my own.

Different curricula choices are definitely not equal.

I feel at a complete loss in guiding some of my children in course selections/future aspirations. What course load should a child who vascillates between culinary arts and forensic science actually take??? How about an almost adult child that behaves like a young child with unrealistic goals?

How about the whole "self-educating/self-teaching" argument? How on earth do kids move beyond their own comprehension level w/o any challenge to their perspective? (This is an argument in the homeschooling community that I have never understood.)

Pat answers might sound like reasonable solutions, but our homeschool experience has been that every yr presents its own new challenges and that there aren't always simple answers and that even our past experiences don't necessarily reveal a path.

I simply grin inwardly when I listen to new homeschoolers that have all the answers. I sure wish I did!!

[Janice in NJ]

Awwww shucks, Jane. Fans? :001_unsure:

Don't you hate rereading something that you have written?
And wish that you had said ___ and ___ and _____.
And fixed the rest of the GLARING errors (I did fix some; I'm such a HACK!).
Makes we want to go brush my teeth again ... but I don't have time for that either so once will have to be enough for this morning.

Peace! :001_smile:
Janice

[OhElizabeth]

I read through all this, and can I ask: what is it you wish you had understood better or planned better? Or is it EVERYTHING? Or is it that WTM is a bit vague for high school and idealistic, not matching up to the reality of your students? Or is it that the tone changes? You know, nobody romances teaching high school for homeschool. It's always elementary school, unit studies, animals, that type thing. Nobody says yippee we get to study rhetoric and aristotle and history and write term papers! But what advice would you give to those who are a couple years away who have some time to think, time to prepare? I've just been of the "it will all work out" mindset, but it sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that you end up feeling caught in a tornado more than anything, just going and whirling without time to even stop and change course. Any advice to those coming behind? :)

[CynthiaOK]

I simply grin inwardly when I listen to new homeschoolers that have all the answers. I sure wish I did!!

I can so relate to this! I've been asked several times to present workshops for our support group or other area groups because "you know so much about the upper levels and what's available". But I keep answering that I will simply end up discouraging the younger idealistic homeschoolers. We do this (high school) because it's the best option around here. If I had other options (public/private) that I felt superior to what I do, I just might pursue those. And it wouldn't take a lot to be superior to what I do :-)

[JennW in SoCal]

How about the whole "self-educating/self-teaching" argument? How on earth do kids move beyond their own comprehension level w/o any challenge to their perspective? (This is an argument in the homeschooling community that I have never understood.)


:iagree:

It was a rough week here on that front as my ds is on a robotics team run by parents who take a very hands-off approach. "It is the kid's team, they should run it" and yet how can we expect them to run an organization successfully, much less design a competitive robot without guidance, coaching and mentoring? Without a certain level of expectations, much less responsibilities, spelled out for them?

Did any of you read the Salon article? I did several weeks ago, and found the author and his wife awfully sweet and innocent, unschooling their little ones. Like Janice, I thought about how different homeschooling gets to be as the little ones grow into gangly, smelly teens with minds of their own. I wonder how the author and his wife will handle that. What really struck me, though was the comments section. It really upsetting as it was full of vitriolic and vicious attacks on homeschooling by ignorant, anonymous people. Those comments made me think, for the first time in a long time, that homeschooling is still on the fringe. It surprised me, frankly.

These high school years are a lonely time, as we try to stick to our homeschool philosophy, while adapting to fit the needs and aspirations of our kids. And the stakes are so much higher than they were when our kids were 5. Each teen age homeschooler is going down a unique path that is different from that of their homeschooled friends, and they are surrounded by the uniform lock-step path of their public school peers. Each of my boys will have had completely different high school courses -- I'm out on the limb with each of them, and there are no other parents out there with me! At least not on the same branch....

But I'm rambling on because it was a rough week for me, one in which I often thought of this board and how grateful I am for it!!

[JennW in SoCal]

Oh, Elizabeth you ask a profound question!

And so many have asked similar questions on this board in the last year -- what do I need to know to prepare? Maybe we old timers ought to think about this and give an honest answer.

I do love homeschooling high school because I enjoy the young adults that my kids have become (or is in the process of becoming). But it is tough, and lonely and the stakes are high -- as I just posted a couple of minutes ago.

I'm going to think about this a bit, and hope others will give some of their usual thoughtful comments. The mundane realities of life are about to claim my attention -- groceries, laundry....

[Cedarmom]

Janice's comments struck a chord with me. I loved the part about normal students who would rather sleep-in and play video games than investigate string theory. My son is a smart, motivated , wonderful young man. But given his choice, he would still rather play video games than school. Back when he was young I did have visions of him never even wanting to watch tv and video games would of course be no interest for him compared to the thrill of calculus. :001_smile: So, the homeschooing journey has not always gone as planned, but it has been good.

[Holly IN]

Janice's comments struck a chord with me. I loved the part about normal students who would rather sleep-in and play video games than investigate string theory. My son is a smart, motivated , wonderful young man. But given his choice, he would still rather play video games than school. Back when he was young I did have visions of him never even wanting to watch tv and video games would of course be no interest for him compared to the thrill of calculus. :001_smile: So, the homeschooing journey has not always gone as planned, but it has been good.

DITTO!!!! My high schooler prefers facebook over school work. It is very depressing to hear that other homeschooled high schoolers love love their school work and spends all day and all night doing it. :glare: I have often wondered what I did WRONG!!!!

It is so nice to read about normal homeschooled students who prefer to play video games/facebook/tv over school no matter how interesting I make it. So THANK YOU for brightening my day!

I agree that as a parent homeschooling their high schoolers is a very lonely and hard thing to go through. You truly are alone because nobody else wants to hear you because you are taking the hard road while others are taking the easy ones especially those that homeschooled up to 8th grade then sent their kids to public school. They totally ignore me now that they do not homeschool anymore. So both sides just leave you alone. VERY FRUSTRATING!!

Thanks for these posts!! I love them. Thank you also for posting the link to the blog about this. hooray!!!:D
Holly

[elegantlion]

Excellent post, comment by Janice, and comments here, much food for thought.

[teacalm]

I am completely disillusioned with online classes. I am no longer a believer or advocate for them. My experience is that they have been ok, but nothing stellar and definitely no better than what I can provide on my own.

Different curricula choices are definitely not equal.



Sad, but true. If there is anyone who wanted desperately for online classes to work, I'm it. I enrolled ds in Latin, math, literature, history, and logic classes. You know what I ended up doing? Pulled him out (except for one online lit and writing class this year). I tried this too with my younger girls. They all said they wanted me to teach them instead. It seems like the online class does not offer new instruction that I, otherwise, would have learn myself just going through the book. I still have to read up on my own in order to help my kids do their assignments. I emailed an online teacher once if he/she can give more thorough instructions. The reply I got was the student expects to know the material but this class was an introduction to this subject. I make my kids ask the teacher every question they ask me. This is the reason why the online teachers are making a lot of feedback. If my kids get their feedbacks on their work, I make them email the teacher to ask how to make their papers better and what to watch out next time. I make the kids ask the teacher how should they have answered instead.

To make it short, teaching them myself is the most effective method. The only thing about this is I have to spend a huge amount of time preparing and studying for it. But hey, if it's for my kids, why not? I found this true also to most of the coop classes my kids took. I feel like I would have been better at teaching the classes myself.

[Karen in CO]

:iagree:


These high school years are a lonely time, as we try to stick to our homeschool philosophy, while adapting to fit the needs and aspirations of our kids. And the stakes are so much higher than they were when our kids were 5. Each teen age homeschooler is going down a unique path that is different from that of their homeschooled friends, and they are surrounded by the uniform lock-step path of their public school peers. Each of my boys will have had completely different high school courses -- I'm out on the limb with each of them, and there are no other parents out there with me! At least not on the same branch....



I was in a meeting with homeschool moms at my dd8's enrichment school this week. I went hoping to find a voice of experience and reason, but found that I was the most experienced one in the room. Everyone smiled when they heard that my ds got into college with that sigh of relief.

I have figured out that each of my girls is on her own path and that my experience is only good for helping me to not panic so much about the choices. I've lately come to realize what was so eloquently stated here. There is no well-worn path to homeschool success or even a generally accepted definition of homeschool success.

[Holly IN]

. I make my kids ask the teacher every question they ask me. This is the reason why the online teachers are making a lot of feedback. If my kids get their feedbacks on their work, I make them email the teacher to ask how to make their papers better and what to watch out next time. I make the kids ask the teacher how should they have answered instead.

.

Very true!! Right now my son is taking one class outside the home which is a combo of Literature, Composition and Worldview/Bible. It has been going great. One little snag, the teacher is not very helpful with my son when he asks her about his reports. He has been making D's and C's on them while he gets an A on everything else. He asks her how he can do better. What does he need to do next time? Also he asked her for some clarification on his 3rd report which is summarizing the 4 chapters in the book they are covering. She refused to answer and told him to look in his assignment sheet as the answer is there. Well, I looked at it and NOPE the answer is not in there. So we had to figure it out by researching. She is very contradictory in her grading from one report to another. VERY FRUSTRATING!!!! However Joshua does like her but is very very depressed over his reports and her comments on the reports. He was very depressed when I picked him up from class. sigh!!!!! I offered to talk to her and my son said NO. So my hands are tied and right now we decided that we need to review summarizing (my instruction in summarizing is different than hers so this is another frustration on my part). I felt this class was worth pursuing because there are lots of group discussions which I feel that I can't reproduce at home. We do everything else at home. He is also in a Debate club as well as the speech portion of the club. That is it!! The rest I am doing at home (and loving it!!!!). Yes, I do want to strangle my son sometimes but you gotta love it!!

Holly

[WTMCassandra]

Nobody says yippee we get to study rhetoric and aristotle and history and write term papers!

:leaving:

Umm, I guess no one except for me. To me, high school will be the payoff, the time to really get to delve into these things. I LOVE that stuff.

Except the math and science, which will have to be outsourced. :lol: I'm very unbalanced in my talents.

[Colleen in NS]

it sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that you end up feeling caught in a tornado more than anything, just going and whirling without time to even stop and change course. Any advice to those coming behind? :)


These high school years are a lonely time, as we try to stick to our homeschool philosophy, while adapting to fit the needs and aspirations of our kids.

Maybe we old timers ought to think about this and give an honest answer.

:bigear:

Oh, how I adore threads like this. They are few and far between, it seems to me, these days, but they are what keep me coming back.

I was in a situation last weekend that rattled my cage, as far as our educational/family choices for our family, and this doesn't happen often for me. Very negative, blatant, condescending vibes came our way, via a significant person to us, and for a few hours I started to question everything. Until I had a good sleep. The next day I was mostly just wishing I had some IRL people (besides very supportive dh) to talk to about these choices along the way. I was wishing I knew some of you IRL, and I was desperately hoping that I could still "access" many of you in a few more years when my oldest is in high school!! Ohpleaseohpleasepleaseplease, old timers, keep checking your PMs at least a few times a month in a few more years, even if you decide to stop frequenting the boards due to life changes as your kids finish up! I *am* afraid of that lonely feeling!

I *loved* reading Susan's new blog, and Janice's comment (and the others - others had interesting things to say, too). I think it's going to be an interesting blog.

[WTMCassandra]

:bigear:

Oh, how I adore threads like this. They are few and far between, it seems to me, these days, but they are what keep me coming back.

I was in a situation last weekend that rattled my cage, as far as our educational/family choices for our family, and this doesn't happen often for me. Very negative, blatant vibes came our way, via a significant person to us, and for a few hours I started to question everything. Until I had a good sleep. The next day I was mostly just wishing I had some IRL people (besides very supportive dh) to talk to about these choices along the way. I was wishing I knew some of you IRL, and I was desperately hoping that I could still "access" many of you in a few more years when my oldest is in high school!! Ohpleaseohpleasepleaseplease, old timers, keep checking your PMs at least a few times a month in a few more years, even if you decide to stop frequenting the boards due to life changes as your kids finish up! I *am* afraid of that lonely feeling!

I *loved* reading Susan's new blog, and Janice's comment (and the others - others had interesting things to say, too). I think it's going to be an interesting blog.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[elegantlion]

:bigear:
I was wishing I knew some of you IRL, and I was desperately hoping that I could still "access" many of you in a few more years when my oldest is in high school!! Ohpleaseohpleasepleaseplease, old timers, keep checking your PMs at least a few times a month in a few more years, even if you decide to stop frequenting the boards due to life changes as your kids finish up! I *am* afraid of that lonely feeling!

:iagree: Perhaps we could bribe them with cookies (or non-sugary treats if preferred). :D

[8FillTheHeart]

I read through all this, and can I ask: what is it you wish you had understood better or planned better? Or is it EVERYTHING? Or is it that WTM is a bit vague for high school and idealistic, not matching up to the reality of your students? Or is it that the tone changes? You know, nobody romances teaching high school for homeschool. It's always elementary school, unit studies, animals, that type thing. Nobody says yippee we get to study rhetoric and aristotle and history and write term papers! But what advice would you give to those who are a couple years away who have some time to think, time to prepare? I've just been of the "it will all work out" mindset, but it sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that you end up feeling caught in a tornado more than anything, just going and whirling without time to even stop and change course. Any advice to those coming behind? :)

Elizabeth, for me it hasn't been a matter of planning. It is more a product of the beast that high school simply is.

I am very critical of my own failings in our homeschool b/c I am a firm believer that discussion, interaction, challenging the student's POV, etc are necessary parts of encouraging/developing analytical processes.

I am absolutely not well-versed in the majority of the subjects my kids have studied/are studying/or will study in high school. I deeply regret that their exposure is limited by the lack of exposure to people that are truly well-versed in their fields.

I don't feel caught in a tornado nor do I feel unable to change courses. Every yr we have to find a routine, etc that works for our family. That part does not phase me in the slightest. It is the trying to ensure my kids have a solid understanding in subject material that my understanding is limited. I am not willing to simply say they know the material b/c they have gone through the textbook and can answer questions and take tests. That definition is a very limited definition of successful learning.

I have to pick subjects I am willing to accept that minimal level of education as acceptable and concentrate my time on learning/questioning, etc on just some of their courses. French is a prime example. My dd is motivated to learn French and is learning it the best we can accomodate. But it is definitely subpar to what I want her to have.

I don't have enough time to learn French, read her lit, her history her theology, keep up with her chemistry, alg2, etc. It is a full day's work for her. I have to keep up with all my other students and our household as well.

I am involved in her daily work. I do attempt to push her beyond where she is.......but at this point, the reality is that her French far exceeds mine, etc.

Then there is the entire high school course selection process itself. FOr my oldest it was easy. My next 2.....definitely not. Thankfully, my 4 is following my oldest's route and I know what classes he needs to take. But, even then, he is 2 yrs ahead of where his older brother was at the same age.

It just isn't as simple as here is a plan.......follow it. Ever child is unique. Courses are different. Etc. It is just completely different than in the younger yrs where you simply complete the basics and step a little deeper and more advanced a little at a time.

[Jane in NC]

Any advice to those coming behind? :)

Well Elizabeth, I fear that given the flexibility that most of us wish to maintain with our homeschooled students (or why else would we be homeschooling?) leads to the unexpected places to which I believe Janice alluded when she wrote:

Eventually one of the little ones decides that they aren’t interested in gardening anymore. They start to care about things that I know NOTHING about. The homeschooling literature has the pat answer to that one too. “Find them a mentor, someone to cultivate their natural curiosity.” Hmmm… Great idea. In the beginning. When they are small. But somehow, somewhere THAT simple idea grows until it becomes nearly unmanageable. I said nearly. Almost tipping over the edge of manageable. And still it grows.

Having only one child, my solution was to learn along with my son. This worked in the beginning with French. I realized, though, that given other circumstances in my life, I simply could not dedicate the amount of time needed to stay with the program in AP Biology. The content of the modern biology book is far different today from what I learned in my earlier course work. I have coached Envirothon teams, so I could keep my head above water in the Ecology portion, but the molecular stuff was beyond me. Not that I could not learn--I simply did not have the time. Thus my son did the course essentially on his own in 10th grade. Do I recommend this? No. There is something to say about the sense of accomplishment, but the price was dear.

I have often regretted not utilizing more online courses, yet the reviews of these courses can be less than stellar. My son is currently taking an online AP Latin course (Virtual Vergil is what I call it) with which I am quite pleased. It may help that my son is accustomed to independent work; having an expert for general guidance and as a resource is precisely what he needed.

Into this discussion I toss in the CC concept. Some note that they live near an "excellent" CC; ours is not. But whether the CC has a reputation that is stellar or significantly inferior to similar institutions, bear in mind that not every teacher is excellent or mediocre. My son learned a great deal from his English 111 instructor last semester; his English prof this semester has her moments, but she is not as demanding or inspiring. She is adequate. In fact, I feel that I can manage an "adequate" job at home. What is the advantage of this CC class?

Initially sending our students to outside courses brings other benefits. Our students are exposed to people who think differently or maybe like-mindedly (wow--there is someone as odd as me out there!). My son is immensely grateful to have learned how to use software like Blackboard. But our CC has too many students who accept mediocrity as a standard--at this point I worry that my son may succumb to a similar mentality.

I sometimes ask friends whose children are in the local high school about the kinds of things that I worry about: Is your student being exposed to enough literature? Are your students doing enough writing, not only in language arts courses, but in other classes? How rigorous is your child's math class? Usually I receive should shrugs or blank stares. Parents tend to trust the local system to do the right thing; I wish that I could trust myself so easily!

Returning to Janis's point, I can say that my son has found a mentor who is supervising his senior project. This was good fortune, in part; my son's passionate interest in archaeology helped create immediate bonds with several professionals with whom he has come into contact. So maybe there is something to say about having that bit of flexibility to develop passions...

Homeschooling high school is hard. On that many of us will agree.

Jane

[Jane in NC]

:iagree: Perhaps we could bribe them with cookies (or non-sugary treats if preferred). :D

Chocolate, Paula. Or maybe a glass of red wine with the way I'm feeling at the moment. It has been a rough week for me, too. Mid-semester blues?

[Janice in NJ]

Oh, Jane. I'm sorry that you're feeling blue.
:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Send me your address? I'll hop in my truck and be there in about..... 13 hours? It would be so worth it if I only could!!!!

Off to read a bit here.... looks like there's much to chat about.

Peace,
Janice

[Linda in TX]

I actually had one outside class for my daughter. She had to write a paper and was graded down on parts of it. When she went to ask the teacher what she needed to do to improve that section since she did not understand what was wrong, the answer was:

You are worried about your grade too much and just need to learn the material?!

My dd never asked for an explanation again. Why? She was supposed to figure it all out herself I guess. This was not an English/writing class, but if they are going to gade the papers like one they should offer some instruction.

Linda

[bugs]

:leaving:

Umm, I guess no one except for me. To me, high school will be the payoff, the time to really get to delve into these things. I LOVE that stuff.

Except the math and science, which will have to be outsourced. :lol: I'm very unbalanced in my talents.

I am the same but opposite:D. I so look forward to the high school years and what we'll learn. But not too excited about the term papers... I am really psyched to teach advanced math and science but may have to outsource Physics and Chemistry for lack of good lab equipment.

[angela in ohio]

I also wish there was more discussion about the realities of homeschooling high school. I used to wonder when I went to homeschool meetings where the more experienced moms were. The only people who seem to have the time to blog, write homeschool articles, go to homeschool meetings, etc. are the moms with younger dc. So I think that is part of the reason we see so much more about the fun times with preschoolers.

Making the transition to junior high and now high school classes is a loss of the fun "hang out with other homeschoolers at the park" time, as well as the group classes and activities that made me feel like I wasn't alone in this. I'm so thankful that I raised my dc so that I like them, though, because we spend an awful lot of time together now. :001_smile: Dh is becoming more involved in helping me make decisions and plan now, which is helping, too.

I've become homeschool-jaded. I read the Salon article and thought, "those kiddos will be in school by second grade." ;)

[WTMCassandra]

I am the same but opposite:D. I so look forward to the high school years and what we'll learn. But not too excited about the term papers... I am really psyched to teach advanced math and science but may have to outsource Physics and Chemistry for lack of good lab equipment.

Whoa! I see from your sig that you are in WA. Where are you? I am in Tri-Cities. Perhaps we could cook up a swap?!

[Stacy in NJ]

I also wish there was more discussion about the realities of homeschooling high school. I used to wonder when I went to homeschool meetings where the more experienced moms were. The only people who seem to have the time to blog, write homeschool articles, go to homeschool meetings, etc. are the moms with younger dc. So I think that is part of the reason we see so much more about the fun times with preschoolers.

Making the transition to junior high and now high school classes is a loss of the fun "hang out with other homeschoolers at the park" time, as well as the group classes and activities that made me feel like I wasn't alone in this. I'm so thankful that I raised my dc so that I like them, though, because we spend an awful lot of time together now. :001_smile: Dh is becoming more involved in helping me make decisions and plan now, which is helping, too.

I've become homeschool-jaded. I read the Salon article and thought, "those kiddos will be in school by second grade." ;)

In my area the reality is that most don't homeschool high school. There was a measurable dribbling away of kids once we reached middle school age. Few older kids at the coop and social gatherings. What is fun and doable when your child is 5 or 8 or 11 becomes unmanagable when they're 12 or 14 or older. For us it has become more lonely. I'll join you in the jaded category. I sometimes see new homeschoolers, and based upon my impression of the mom, will think, "She won't last.". Mean, I know.:confused:

[Martha]

I don't know that I'm a fan but I did agree with much of what she said.

[Janice in NJ]

Thanks for responding Elizabeth.

A couple of things: First of all I did not read through the entire set of comments that followed that original blog post (not Susan's but the one that she was referring to). If I had, I would not have touched it with a ten foot pole. :001_smile: I in NO WAY take issue with the original blog. I am so totally and completely and (did I mentioned totally!????!!!!) psyched for those folks. I could not possible emote through pixels on a screen how psyched I am that they have chosen this path. They sound like excited, intelligent individuals who are probably going to provide an amazing childhood for their children.

I still have not read the blog's follow up comments. So I am basing this on the reports that ya'll have given me. If the conversation dropped into the depths of yuckie, then I'm sorry to have even been connected with that in even a tangential way. My apologies.

My angst is not directed at the new couple starting to homeschool.
OK. So who is it directed at? Hmmmm... OK. Thanks for taking me to task on this one. It doesn't help to give a thumbs down to something without providing a "do this instead." So.... OK.
(Looking at the clock here. I have NO TIME! But I can't just say nothing about something that I care so deeply about. But I am very aware that I am probably not going to have the time to type and edit and re-type until the little squiggles on the page MEAN what I want them to mean. Darn!)

OK. Let's start there. (Sheesh, this is going to be a mess.)

Time. I spend a lot of time driving people where they need to go. They just need to be "dropped off somewhere" nearly ALL of the time. And trust me, they are not overly-committed kids. But there are three of them. And one of me. And a dh who has a demanding job. Which usually leave one of me.

We are having pizza for dinner again. I don't really like pizza and have gained 10 pounds in the last two years. I SWEAR that I am going to go to the gym and do something about it, but that too falls into the arena of good intentions. I have NEVER had so many things on my "good intention" list. EVER. I am a type A DOER. I do NOT procrastinate. I am NOT that woman. But I have become that woman. I have chosen to become someone that I am not. And I'm still not used to it.

Dh is working tonight - broadcast, and he'll be working tomorrow. (Oh - you can listen to tonight's broadcast of Faust live on the Met's site; Aida will be live in movie theaters tomorrow ala HD if anyone's interested. Both great operas. In fact many folks have said that this Aida cast is really something special. http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/)

Where was I? Oh. Pizza. I read a recent NY Times article that talked about studies that showed that kids who eat dinner with their families are less likely to develop drug problems. The article went on to say that you don't actually have to sit down and share a meal together; it's just important to connect with your kids. So now we have a family joke. "Get in here and stand with me over the sink so we can bond over dinner so you don't grow up and do drugs. Hurry up or we'll be late.... WHERE are your socks? Don't you know we have to GOOOOOOOO!????" We're smiling. The kids are rolling their eyes along with the joke. But I still don't like the hurry up thing.

That feeling. That feeling feels yuckie. That hurry up thing is just the pits. So it can be fixed, right? Planning. Organization. A schedule. Structure.

No. Can't fix it. If that feeling could be repaired on the outside, I would have fixed it by now. I am really, really good at fixing problems. And I'm no slacker when it comes to gettin 'er done.

But there came a time in this project - I can't tell you the exact when; it really is that fizzy. But there came a time when I had to let go of that problem. I have had to learn to embrace, thrive.... dare I say (love) the chaos. OK. Lying; I don't love it. But embrace and thrive we do.

But there is that itch that panic produces. That feeling that I'm missing a really important clue phone somewhere.

I used to do nearly all things well when it came to homeschooling. I say nearly. We have definitely had our challenges, and I have by no means been the perfect homeschooler. My kids keep me honest! But our curriculum was always strong. I generally knew what I was doing, and when I didn't, the TE made sense AT FIRST GLANCE. And when I didn't know what to do.... THIS IS IT: When I didn't know what to do, there were LOTS of definite, clear, DO-THIS-NEXT paths offered to me. The books. The articles. The blogs. All of the voices gave me clear distinct instructions. The paths made sense. I just had to choose one and do it. And once I hit my groove, things made more sense. I knew what to do, and I was pretty successful at it.

Maybe that's why the vets around here always answer the newbies with that, "Don't worry, just pick a program and use it you'll be fine." It sounds patronizing. It isn't meant to be. It really does work most of the time.

But then I started to move towards high school.

And the recipes just weren't that easy to follow. The ingredient lists had all become haunted with a "dash" of this or "enough to taste" or even the occasional: Just use some green vegetable. So I did. Only when we were trying to eat the mess did someone tell me, "Hmm.... green. But not broccoli, dear. Don't you know that broccoli is too strong? It's just too much. Eww. No wonder it tasted horrible."

No. I did not know that broccoli was a horrible idea. Call me an idiot. I didn't know. Now I know. Mental note: all green veggies are not created equal.

So I'm chiming in here with the other moms:
This project is doable at the high school level. Don't get the wrong impression. It's working. My kids are learning. I get positive feedback from friends, relatives, and even folks who only know my kids for a couple of weeks. They are interesting and engaging individuals.

I guess I just allowed myself to believe too much in an ideal. I wanted to give my kids a thoroughly classical education. We are learning. We are growing. But I really thought I would be able to do what I wanted to do in the way that I wanted to do it if I worked hard enough. I really thought that somehow, we would find their strengths, and they would naturally navigate toward their strengths. Passionate learners and all that. Some. But not so much.

Example: We had a light week this week. A breather for me.(Last week was week nine for us. 27 to go) The kids only had to do their on-line class work, music lessons, and five teaching company lectures this week. I sat in on the lectures so that I could bug them by hitting pause every two minutes to discuss. (Oh - younger ds read a terrific version of Don Quixote too. Easy Peasy.) But beyond that, I had a no-teaching week. So what have the scholars been doing for the past 90 minutes? Oh, I bet you just can't wait. Ready fans? (Cough!) :tongue_smilie: The two boys are sitting on the couch huddled around a laptop watching Top Gear episodes. They argue every couple of minutes about nothing. They're almost drooling. It has grown pitch black in the room since they started. They haven't seemed to notice. They are too busy worshipping the blinking box and verbally scrapping. And my dear daughter? The gal who speaks French and Italian. The little lady who took two years of high school Latin in jr. high? The song bird? The great writer? My witty one? She's upstairs watching old episodes of The Muppets. She particularly likes the two hecklers in the box seats.

If I don't make them (ie add it to their "schedule"), they will not do anything.

Ok. Centering. I'm hungry. I think I'll bellow for one of the vidiets to place our healthy meal into the warming unit.
Done.
Dinner's coming.

I guess that's what I mean. It's ok. I'm too tired to care any more. And I'm starting to realize that it's OK to not care that much. It still feels weird - especially when I thought I would care so much all the way to the end. So I care now. Just not as much.... Where was I, pizza? Caring about dinner! I don't want pizza. I really don't like pizza. I would much rather have something else. But that something is going to have to be chosen by me, shopped for by me, prepared by me, and then savored by me. Instead I chose to find a way to savor pizza. Even though I don't really mean it.

...cont below. Post got too long....

[Janice in NJ]

Homeschooling. High School.
1. Think long and hard about what kind of education you really want your children to have.

2. Be realistic. If you have never read a classic of Western Literature, I would suggest that you best get to stepping. Really. No kidding. Don't want to scare you. But if you're planning on swimming the English channel, you better finding out if you even like the water off the shores of the queen's island. Drowning is no fun.

3. And "on-line" classes. DVD courses. Self-education. Be smart, momma. I have had actual conversation with an educated individual who has bragged that her child finished Algebra I with a DVD course in only two months. They are moving onto Geometry. "Wow! He must have done math all day long." Answer? "Nope. Took an hour a day. Done. Glad that's over with." She sees the look on my face and asks, "You look confused. Do you think something's wrong? Maybe he didn't get everything out of it that he should have?" Gosh darn it, I don't want to answer that question. Heck no. Even if you "outsource", you are still involved, mom. You are still involved! You are still involved......

4. You are still involved. So work through your personal issues surrounding that now. Hsing high school seemed so independent from all of the literature that I read. Now when I read it, it makes more sense, but I suspect that I'm not the only one who read it through a lying lens when my kids were little. Comments like, "As a parent, it's your responsibility to make sure that those two hours are actually spent in reading and writing, rather than in daydreaming or creating doodles on notebook paper....." (The whole paragraph from pages 499 - 500 really says it nicely. Please hear me - it's good advice; I just didn't READ it years ago.) There it is. Simple right? Just make sure. That simple line gives the impression that I am doing something else. And I am. I am not sitting there while they read. They are on their own, and I am somewhere else. But later in the chapter it says that I should supervise this process. Yes. Makes sense. But I read it through the lens of homeschooling little ones. My kids did independent work when they were little. 2*5 = ; 20* 5555= ; (2/5 * 5/7) squared; etc. When I checked their work and they did something wrong, I could help them. When they stared into space, I knew it. Now? I can glance at almost NOTHING that they do and immediately understand it - forget about possessing the ability to explain it four different ways. That thrill of knowing is gone. Now knowing comes by preparing. Reading. Studying. Exploring. And knowing more than they'll ever need to know in order to rub up against them and sharpen them in a meaningful way. (I have read The Scarlet Letter multiple times without knowing a THING about Ms. Fuller or Hawthorne's angst about "Manifest Destiny." Luther. Providential History. and Blah, Blah, Blah.... I thought it was about the adultery. ;))

OH. Digressing. Point #4. So the kid is sitting in the other room with his book. Reading. Note-taking. Etc. So I just read the book while he's reading it, right? WRONG! I'm helping the little brother with his algebra. He's confused again. This is important. We leave for his sister's voice lesson in twenty minutes. I haven't much time. I start talking louder. The little man knows that I'm getting agitated, but he thinks it's because he's not doing well. He's fine. I've had too much coffee; I've been up since 4:45. I have to go to the little girl's room, but we're in the middle of something, so I'm holding. The bath room is right there. Am I crazy? Maybe. Algebra homework help. From 12:00 to 12:25 and there is still no way we are going to get this done! The schedule says nothing about urine. "Where were we?" Holding.
Dd walks in, "The file server is down again. Can I reboot the network?"
"Is anyone on the network?" I bellow, "If so, save your stuff!"
Silence.
"Sure," I tell her, "reboot."
She disappears.
Ds who is supposed to be reading walks in, "Can I read this to you, Mom? This is really cool."
I WANT to say "YES!" Finally fruit of homeschooling ALL of this work, right!? A 16 year old boy wants to discuss a passage of Hawthorne - a homeschooler's dream come true! ....but I have to pee, and younger ds is starting to cry and proclaim that he hates math. The phone starts ringing; it's dh's ring. “Hang on, hun.”
I answer. "Hi. What?"
"Wow! Are you OK? Hon? I was just calling to tell you that I had a wonderful time last night. You're the best. Are you mad at me or something? Is everything OK?"
"Yes. Me too - I love you. I love you. Yes, I'm fine. Can't talk. Gotta go. I'm late."
Hanging up, I hear dd yelling from the basement. "I rebooted, and my pages still won't print. I need to take this stuff with me if I'm going to finish my history while I am waiting for (ds) at his violin lesson. WHAT am I supposed to do?" (Voice lesson first then violin lesson - same town.)
"Mom!!!!!" next to me from ds who is desperate now at the thought that he might actually have to do math after dinner in order to finish this up." Mom, I NEEEEEEED help. We are leaving in five minutes."
"Forget it. Forget it, Mom. I'll tell ya later." ds wanders back into the kitchen with Hawthorne. No one wants to hear about the burdocks and Hester and Dimmesdale; now one cares about Pearl's light missiles. Not now! I want to cry! I care, but I can't care. Not now. WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? No one was there to care with me when I circled it in my book at 5:10 in the morning. I was alone, and I too wanted to tell someone. I wanted to read it to someone. I wish he could read it to me now, but he can’t. I can’t. Can’t. Mental note: make sure to reconnect over the burdocks. It's important. It matters. I file it in my brain next to mammogram as in make an appointment for one (reminds me of burdocks!). Need a mammogram too. THOSE matter too. I like my books.

I'm emotionally done. I don't know what to feel.
Everything is allright. Right?
My 7th grader is doing algebra, and he is generally doing well.
My oldest "gets" literature.
My middle daughter is responsibly trying to print her work so she can take it with her to make good use of her waiting-time.
And dh loves me, and isn't afraid to show it.

But I have to PEE!!!! So I'm not interacting with my husband and my kids the way I want to. I'm not interacting with this material the way I want to. I'm not interacting with ME the way I want to.
And I have NO time to psycho-analyze myself. Nothing is really wrong! I just want someone somewhere to logically help me work through my limitations and how those limitations make me feel. I want someone who knows me and knows what it going on to tell me what to do! FIX THIS!

I would just like to read that fix-it book.

My 16 year old ds just brought me hot pizza and an ice cold glass of milk. "I thought you would like milk, Mom."

So nothing's wrong. Everything's fine.
Don't worry. :001_smile:

Gotta go. Finished a quick proof read. This post is a MESS! :001_smile: I'm off; yes, someone needs a ride. :001_smile:

So yes, you can do it. But please be mentally prepared to shift gears if you need too, and educate yourself enough so that you can do that. You need to know what to do when you don't know what to do because no one else will. Really. They will love you. They will care about you. But they won't know what to do. And don't care too much. Don't invest too much in your plan. Living life well matters more than plans for living life well. Sometimes you have to let go of one of 'em. :001_smile:

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[justamouse]

I agree with much of what Janice wrote. Homeschooling my younger kids is a completely different scenerio than high school. I do not like the options for high school and simply do the best I can. (I believe at this point, my attempts are superior to the other options available around me.)



This.

And Janice? I totally love you and am your fan. I get it. I'm doing the same and on most days I sound just like you.

And most days I see that PS isn't that bad an option. Not one that I would choose, but I see the sanity in it because most days I think that they would be getting just as much from a PS teacher as they do from me. And I only have one in HS, 5 younger than her and her x 5 = ME, with no hair, babbling in a corner about happy places.

[Colleen in NS]

Janice.

You are an absolute GEM. You probably have no idea. I just sat here for the past 15 minutes, HOWLING in front of my computer with tears running down my face and needing a tissue - you are SO FUNNY!!! I have not laughed this hard in a couple of years, and I never laugh at things I read on the forums, but this was priceless. It's VERY funny, and VERY honest, and what a thorough picture it is of a day in the life of a HIGH SCHOOL homeschooling Mom!! I loved it. Esp. the part about no room in the schedule for urine. I cannot stop laughing!!:lol::lol::lol:

But seriously, you have an awesome way of expressing what is really going on - I am saving this thread to one of my files. Thank you for being you and for continuing to hang out here.

Oh, and please don't edit anything else or erase anything - I tried to multi-quote both of your posts, and they were too long! I want to save this for future reference because I am SURE I will need it.

[happygrrl]

Janice.

You are an absolute GEM. You probably have no idea. I just sat here for the past 15 minutes, HOWLING in front of my computer with tears running down my face and needing a tissue - you are SO FUNNY!!! I have not laughed this hard in a couple of years, and I never laugh at things I read on the forums, but this was priceless. It's VERY funny, and VERY honest, and what a thorough picture it is of a day in the life of a HIGH SCHOOL homeschooling Mom!! I loved it. Esp. the part about no room in the schedule for urine. I cannot stop laughing!!:lol::lol::lol:

But seriously, you have an awesome way of expressing what is really going on - I am saving this thread to one of my files. Thank you for being you and for continuing to hang out here.

Oh, and please don't edit anything else or erase anything - I tried to multi-quote both of your posts, and they were too long! I want to save this for future reference because I am SURE I will need it.

:iagree: Howling for me was both laughing AND crying....

[elegantlion]

Perhaps I should have one my favorite mantras "Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape" tattooed on my forearm or palm where I can see it on a daily basis. Sharpies, maybe I'll start with sharpies. Come on Z, an art project, you get to write on mom's arms.

[Janice in NJ]

Colleen,

I said "Pee" ....more than once. You're not really going to save that are you?

:001_smile: Janice

[Jami]

I've become homeschool-jaded. I read the Salon article and thought, "those kiddos will be in school by second grade." ;)

:lol:

That's *exactly* what I said!

[JennW in SoCal]

My list, which isn't going to be very funny after Janice's stream-of-consciousness rant;)

1. Start learning about college entrance requirements. Here in California, for instance, an independent homeschooler cannot get into a state school, neither UC nor Cal State, as the system refuses to recognize homeschool diplomas. You can start at a CC and transfer, or enroll at an accredited charter high school to get an acceptable transciprt and diploma. Knowing details like this can help you keep as many doors open as possible for your homeschooler, and prepare you for the doors you are going to close.

2. Along the same lines, be aware that many public high schools will not give credit to homeschool courses, so if your dc decide after their sophmore year they want to attend the local ps, you may have trouble enrolling him as a junior. It varies from district to district, so find out NOW.

3. Time in the car doesn't have to be car schooling -- with a teen, time in a car is a chance to chat -- drug prevention bonding! My life would be so much easier if my oldest had his license, but he is too dang busy to schedule that last behind the wheel class and his driving test! So drive I do, up and down the same freeway, and between that time in the car and Facebook, I know what is going on in my 17yo's life. He will be on the other side of the country in 3 months -- I remind myself this current chaos will be over and to savor what little time we do have. Car time is also highly entertaining when you have several homeschool boys in the back seats because their topics of conversation make for very surreal experiences. I'd try to recreate one now, but I can't do it justice!

4. There are those kids for whom a "rigorous" WTM high school education is not the right fit. It doesn't mean you give up on great or pretty darn good books, of give up on analysis and writing, but it just may not go at the pace or to the depth you had hoped. Not every kid is ready for a 4 year college at 18, some might do best with CC or a trade school if they can follow a passion and be happy. It is wrenching to come to terms with that -- I am speaking from experience, but once you accept it, everyone is happier.

5. Not every course is as in depth as you'd like. We call them "Git 'er done" courses, or "checking off the box" courses. There is only so much time in the day for a student to work, only so many hours we can give up on the weekends in planning. Focus on the basics, focus on your dc's interests, get the rest done in as easy a manner as possible.

6. (Echoing Janice here ) Dinner? All their activities are in the evening. It is a shock when the entire family unit is together for a meal -- and usually there is no food to prepare as I haven't had time to grocery shop so we all go out to eat.

Exercise? I send the kids out to walk the dog so I can sit and stare into space for a few minutes.

We could go into the poor timing of our biological clocks -- perimenopausal moms and raging hormonal teens is not a pretty combination....

It is a much busier time of life, almost as tiring as having a baby in the house, but with a different kind of exhaustion. But it is a great time too -- these are the great kids we raised, who have cool friends and unique interests. And you get to share books!! And re-learn high school math! I figure I've held back the onset of dementia by several years with all this learning I'm doing in my late 40s!!!

[Nan in Mass]

Jenn, we had a rough week, too. I'm waving to you from my own tip of a neighboring branch. No grades, a mishmash of work that I divide into courses at the end of high school, no APs, no SATIIs, and children who disappear for months on end... it is all very scary, but I don't know what else to do. Hugs. -Nan

[tex-mex]

I agree with much of what Janice wrote. Homeschooling my younger kids is a completely different scenerio than high school. I do not like the options for high school and simply do the best I can. (I believe at this point, my attempts are superior to the other options available around me.)

I am completely disillusioned with online classes. I am no longer a believer or advocate for them. My experience is that they have been ok, but nothing stellar and definitely no better than what I can provide on my own.

Different curricula choices are definitely not equal.

I feel at a complete loss in guiding some of my children in course selections/future aspirations. What course load should a child who vascillates between culinary arts and forensic science actually take??? How about an almost adult child that behaves like a young child with unrealistic goals?

How about the whole "self-educating/self-teaching" argument? How on earth do kids move beyond their own comprehension level w/o any challenge to their perspective? (This is an argument in the homeschooling community that I have never understood.)

Pat answers might sound like reasonable solutions, but our homeschool experience has been that every yr presents its own new challenges and that there aren't always simple answers and that even our past experiences don't necessarily reveal a path.

I simply grin inwardly when I listen to new homeschoolers that have all the answers. I sure wish I did!!

:iagree:

[Nan in Mass]

Hugs, Jane.

[Nan in Mass]

I'm trying to give honest answers. I'm beginning to feel like I'm repeating myself, though, and just dragging everyone else along on the emotional everything's fine, panic, everything's fine, panic, roller coaster. Elizabeth, I'll see if I can find some of the old posts where I answer this question. Or try to remember what I've said. It might take me a bit to get to it, though. -Nan

[Jane in NC]

Hugs, Jane.

Thanks Nan. I think that travel fatigue is playing into my emotions this week. Also, I feel that The Boy needs to test his wings and not have Mom micro-managing his life. Not sure if all of his decisions were the wisest--I find myself worrying over the silliest things!

We have some family time scheduled for the weekend. Reconnection should help. (Also helps having my laundry done. Visiting family and friends last week was a good thing, but instead of feeling relaxed upon my return, I feel scattered!)

Jane

[Colleen in NS]

I'm trying to give honest answers. I'm beginning to feel like I'm repeating myself, though, and just dragging everyone else along on the emotional everything's fine, panic, everything's fine, panic, roller coaster. Elizabeth, I'll see if I can find some of the old posts where I answer this question. Or try to remember what I've said. It might take me a bit to get to it, though. -Nan

Nan, I actually thought of your posts when I read Elizabeth's post wanting to know the nitty gritty. Feel free to just link, if you don't want to repeat things you've said before...I'd read your old posts again! I like reading about your "messy" high-school-Mom life - it lets me know what things will be like, and these "messy" posts make me all the more determined to go for it.

[Nan in Mass]

I know. As grateful as I am to our CC, it is still school, something which we like to minimize in our family. Sigh.

[Jane in NC]

I know. As grateful as I am to our CC, it is still school, something which we like to minimize in our family. Sigh.

Ayup. I suspect that my son will not be at the CC for his last semester. He has demonstrated that he can do classroom work, but I would rather he focus on his APs, senior project and lots of 20th century novels. In fact, if we remove the CC from the equation, we should have some flexibility for a bit of travel--something that I have always valued.

Preparing to let go is tough. Can't imagine how things will be next August...

Jane

[Janice in NJ]

Oh my. Me too with the fine, panic, fine, panic not-so-merry-go-round. I too think I must sound as crazy as I (sometimes) feel. But then I think, "I'm not. I'm just regular-ole." So you must be normal too. I get it.

Peace to you and yours!
Janice

[Nan in Mass]

Actually, August wasn't so bad. It was May and June... You might find you let go most of the way when he graduates in June, at least the school end of things. Then you are just left with the normal parental empty spot at dinner and next to you in the car mourning in August. You might be doing a bunch of the mourning in advance, in anticipation. I'm dreading the last one already, and he himself explodes if anyone mentions college in connection with him.
-Nan

[swimmermom3]

So yes, you can do it. But please be mentally prepared to shift gears if you need too, and educate yourself enough so that you can do that. You need to know what to do when you don't know what to do because no one else will. Really. They will love you. They will care about you. But they won't know what to do. And don't care too much. Don't invest too much in your plan. Living life well matters more than plans for living life well. Sometimes you have to let go of one of 'em. :001_smile:


Oh man. I don't know whether to fall on the floor laughing (it will be tinged with hysteria) or fall in the same spot sobbing (most definitely along the hysterical vein). However, I did learn in physics this week how much more force it takes to defy gravity and remove a larger mass from the floor. Besides, I would ruin a perfectly good glass of wine that way. Can. not. spare.one.drop. this week.

I can't really even find the words to express how I feel about this thread right now and it's time for the evening driving session. I do know that it is difficult to educate your teens really well whether they are home schooled or in public school, when you care deeply. You ladies are in my heart tonight. Janice, thank you. For those of you that had a rough week, what you do matters very much. It really does.

[WTMCassandra]

:lol:

That's *exactly* what I said!

Nah, I'm generous. I give 'em until middle school. :lol:

[Nan in Mass]

Here are a few recent interesting threads, not exactly what you asked for, but interesting:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=988959#poststop
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=777638#poststop
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88119&highlight=differently
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76314&highlight=differently
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=698057&highlight=differently&page=2
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=673680#poststop
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=222261#poststop
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82785
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80303
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72106
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79970
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80414
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68058
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83725
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76668
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65092
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3487&highlight=high+school

Ok, so now that I've made us all feel like we're repeating ourselves... These are some of the threads that I've found helpful or intriguing. And I think the 8th graders thread I started and the one on homeschooling high school are in here. I've done this pretty hastily and I'll do a better search later, but I'm not sure how much I'll be around this weekend.
-Nan

[Laurel-in-CA]

It just isn't as simple as here is a plan.......follow it. Ever child is unique. Courses are different. Etc. It is just completely different than in the younger yrs where you simply complete the basics and step a little deeper and more advanced a little at a time.

I will just second that. I am afraid I am learning my failings with child #1, who luckily has a gift of art that will overcome the inconsistencies in her transcript due to my failings and her biases. Child #2 will want a much more competitive and engineering-oriented school - and I am already telling him he has to study more and take more outside tests to validate his work. Child #3 will probably get a 2-year degree in something and go to work and child #4 may become a salesperson - having the gift of people. So different, so unique, and so challenging for me to keep up with one level without shorting the others who are on different levels.

[Tressa]

Janice, you are my hero. Oh, my gosh! That was just what I needed tonight. This homeschooling high school business is a different beast than before, and I am only in the 9th grade.

[Peela]

What a wonderful thread.
Something has happened to me in the last few months..I have lost my incredible enthusiasm for homeschooling. It's not that I am depressed, or even burned out. I still want to do it, too. But I am not living and breathing it any more. I dont research curriculum any more (amazing, I know).
What I have found is that it is plain hard work at this stage. My dd15 works independently...but so what. If I dont interact with her and discuss her work with her, I feel I am really letting her down. My ds13 has just started working independently...its a relief..but I can easily fall into the trap of getting busy doing other things now, instead of staying with them and interacting.
Its hard work. Its tedious. I hate marking. It takes all my self discipline to do it, then MAKE them redo bad work etc. I have many passions and interests. I have to actually remind myself now that homeschooling is my job. I have had to postpone my afternoon rest till the kids have finished work in the afternoons, so that we can keep interacting, talking, and also so that I can check they are actually doing the work. It doesnt really get easier as they get more independent, because the stakes get higher, and they still need that challenge of interactive discussion, as momof7 says. I love the discussions about philosophy and history and literature. Sometimes I love the Latin too, although my dd is ahead of me now. It just all gets terribly tedious at times, though.

I am SO glad we have done lots of grammar, they can spell well, they are about grade level with math, and we have read zillions of good quality books and discussed them together. I am also glad we have done Latin classes in the past, and they do a science class now- that is a huge load off me and the teacher does a great job- at the level my non-sciencey kids need. I am glad we did a lot of structured writing in the past, and narratives etc

As for online classes....yes, I usually give up. Dd15 did a writing class I thought was fantastic. She did the 2nd one too. Then she just begged me not to have to do any more. She wants to learn with me- or from books. She hates online classes. So much for that. She did a year of French online. Waste of time.

I have really struggled not knowing what direction to take with my older in particular. She is extremely artistic...and extremely social. She is also a good writer. Only this week, someone was talking to her, asking her what she is going to do, and she said, as usual, I dont know. The person then enthusiastically encouraged her to go into Journalism, because she could do her photography, her writing, and be very outgoing with it all, socially. She also has a good general knowledge because of all the history we have done. She got very inspired....and I am blowing on those sparks of enthusiasm with all my might, because now we have a PLAN. A sense of direction. Its a relief...even if she changes her mind, it's ok, it's a start.

ON the other hand....the kids have amazing freedoms, a great social life, wonderful opportunities. Dd15 has a part time accountancy job looking after a friend's books...and gets paid an adult wage for an adult's job. SHe now catches public transport and visits people and places. Today, Saturday, she went surfing with friends at dawn, and is now at an art workshop. Tomorrow she will go with her boyfriend to a Scouting function. Ds13 is on a farm this weekend with his best friend, seeing newborn lambs and experiencing their lifestyle, and going to a rodeo. Last week we took a holiday up to Ningaloo Reef, a 12-14 hour drive through the barren scrub and desert and amazing wildflowers, to see the incredible tropical reef, coral, whales, manta rays etc. It was awesome. We have an amazing lifestlye, the kids have it so good, largely because of homeschooling.

I feel its all going to work out but its not a smooth straightforward plan, thats for sure. Things change, are in a flux, all the time. I want another year with my dd15 before she goes off to TAFE(our equivalent of CC I think) so I can teach her all those things I want to teach her before she flies off. She is itching for her freedom- she wanted to go to school next year, but I am very keen to keep her home. So many books I wanted her to read that I dont know if we will realistically have time for.

I feel a bittersweet pang as my kids grow up. All the doubts about whether I have prepared them well enough for the world or academically come up. I feel I can see a time in the not too distant future where it will be just Dh and I going on our holidays...so we are trying to fit in some extra ones now. We want to teach our kids how to live, not just how to get a good paying job- they are motivated to make money already. But these are the years of mature discussion, and immature emotions, then logical arguments, then totally irrational outbursts. I miss being able to put my son on my knee when he cries, and hug him. That was so much easier. Now he stands aloof and gets upset and storms around and I draw him through with patience and long discussion where before a cuddle was enough.

Anyway, it's all worth it and I love these years. The academic side I find harder. There is a lot of joy though.

[Colleen in NS]

Nan, thank you for linking all those threads. I have them all saved now, for future reading/encouragement.

Jenn, Peela, thank you for sharing your thoughts/stories, too. All of you. Even if any of you feels you are repeating yourselves, you actually add some freshness each time, because you have another few months/years under your belt each time.

[Nan in Mass]

"remind myself that homeschooling is my job"..."amazing lifestyle"...
Peela, what a great post. Those two phrases about sum up how I feel about homeschooling, that and the closeness with my children. I'm homeschooling from necessity because of who my children are, so I've never really expected to actually like the day to day part. It has been a fantastic bonus that so much of it is actually nice and that it has worked as well as it has. You can hear that whenever you read my posts, probably. I often feel like I am trying to accomplish something entirely different from the rest of you and that's why my posts sometimes stand out. And then at other times, it seems like we are all ultimately trying to do the same thing. Lovely post, Peela. There is a great Zits that I will post when I get back tonight that describes the jobness of homeschooling GRIN.
-Nan

[Jane in NC]

ON the other hand....the kids have amazing freedoms, a great social life, wonderful opportunities. Dd15 has a part time accountancy job looking after a friend's books...and gets paid an adult wage for an adult's job. SHe now catches public transport and visits people and places. Today, Saturday, she went surfing with friends at dawn, and is now at an art workshop. Tomorrow she will go with her boyfriend to a Scouting function. Ds13 is on a farm this weekend with his best friend, seeing newborn lambs and experiencing their lifestyle, and going to a rodeo. Last week we took a holiday up to Ningaloo Reef, a 12-14 hour drive through the barren scrub and desert and amazing wildflowers, to see the incredible tropical reef, coral, whales, manta rays etc. It was awesome. We have an amazing lifestlye, the kids have it so good, largely because of homeschooling.

<snip>

I feel a bittersweet pang as my kids grow up. All the doubts about whether I have prepared them well enough for the world or academically come up. I feel I can see a time in the not too distant future where it will be just Dh and I going on our holidays...so we are trying to fit in some extra ones now. We want to teach our kids how to live, not just how to get a good paying job- they are motivated to make money already. But these are the years of mature discussion, and immature emotions, then logical arguments, then totally irrational outbursts. I miss being able to put my son on my knee when he cries, and hug him. That was so much easier. Now he stands aloof and gets upset and storms around and I draw him through with patience and long discussion where before a cuddle was enough.

Anyway, it's all worth it and I love these years. The academic side I find harder. There is a lot of joy though.

Indeed, a great post Peela! Thank you for reminding me during this challenging senior year about our core reasons for homeschooling.

I have always oscillated between feeling my son had to jump through assorted hoops (AP exams, SAT subject tests, etc.) or whether he should be given lots of time to pursue specific things that truly interest him (archaeology, Dystopian literature, hands on electronics work). This brings back the old discussions on breadth vs. depth--and those chats on why we as homeschoolers are asked to verify our students' work via more testing than is expected from the traditionally schooled applicant. What makes this so hard is that I want my son to pursue his passions, but I fear that colleges may not admit him if he does not jump through a sufficient number of those traditional hoops.

My fears create tension between my son and me. I know that. He is already on edge so he does not need a mother displaying her own nerves. What I find to be interesting with parents whose traditionally schooled children are applying to college this year is that they seem to either be in an almost hands off mode ("Mary Lou will figure it all out" or "Bob Jr. will attend State U because it is where everyone in our family goes") or they are essentially like me--researching things on the Internet to find the perfect fit for my son. Really, I don't think that my concerns and worries are unique to homeschoolers but to any concerned parent. My girlfriend in San Francisco whose daughter attends a Catholic school has been phoning regularly to compare notes. She may not have to write a counselor letter or a homeschool description, but she is as involved as I am in this process.

Which leads me to wonder...is part of the difficulty of these high school years experienced by all engaged parents, no matter where their children attend school? Do we (the group of engaged parents) all second guess our decisions and seek out interesting opportunities for our students to develop their passions and experience their transition into adulthood in safe and nurturing ways?

Jane (who is grateful for this thread as it is providing a necessary attitude adjustment)

[Janice in NJ]

Loved your post, Peela. You sincerely explored both sides of this issue. Yes, it works. No, I wouldn't give up this lifestyle for anything. Yes, the opportunities are awesome. And YES, " It just all gets terribly tedious at times, though."

I just dropped my 12 year-old ds off at an Organ Master Class with Thomas Trotter.
http://www.concertorganists.com/site2009/artist2.aspx?id=73
He is giving a concert tomorrow at the church where the music director - herself also a master organist - has agreed to give our son lessons on the King of Instruments. She began teaching him this fall; she has never taken a student this young, but she believes that the little man might make something of it. So we began. And he is beyond psyched; no projecting on my part here - he really loves it! We could not have made this happen if we weren't homeschooling; he practices four times a week on the instrument. (At least I am getting more reading done while I sit and wait for him. ;)) And he is still aggressively studying piano and violin.

Yesterday afternoon I found myself in our truck driving in a circle around town to track the range of a home-made di-pole antenna with older ds. The 18+ ft wide "thing" was positioned in the backyard; we were traveling with a more mobile unit - gathering questioning looks as we drove down dead-end streets etc.. Lists, data, and graphs. How to build the perfect mousetrap. Lots of problems. He wants to go out again today even though he hasn't worked on his set-up at all. Top Gear episodes and all. :001_smile: He's probably forgotten about the whole thing and will remember next week when he's supposed to be doing something else. ;)

I took dd to a new pediatrician yesterday for her annual check up. We had a wonderful ride. We started listening to American Bloomsbury on CD. I really enjoyed the book itself, and I think she will connect well with these Trans. authors better if she knows a bit more of their bios and their connections; I know that I did. So we drank coffee and crunched down a bag of cinnamon pita chips while we listened and paused to chat and listened somemore - while I was driving in Jersey traffic. :001_smile: The new ped. dubbed her a "very intelligent, well-spoken young woman." I agree. :001_smile:

So yes, I feel like I "hear" you. It is so hard, and so tedious, and so hard. But then it is so grand too. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Well - at least not for anything that I know of. But I do wonder if there is a way to increase the density of the powerful experiences and decrease the density of the mundane-motion thing.

I'm not quite comfortable with our balance yet.

I appreciate your perspective and the perspective of others who post on these boards. If ya'll help me to keep shuffling the deck, I'm confident that eventually I will find a hand that I love.

Can't wait!

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[Janice in NJ]

My fears create tension between my son and me.

Oh my, Jane. This. Everything that you said. And This. THIS!!!!! This is the hardest part. I hate, hate, hate myself the most because of this. It screams at me when our landscape is peppered with these spikes of tension. Disciplining young people is one thing, but self-awareness of an undulating personal fear of failing them coupled with that process is incredibly murky. Few clear lines, and tons of circular "should I or shouldn't I have _____ thoughts."

And I'm not one of the those downer, self-loathing kind of folks. I'm generally a cheerful, upbeat gal. But I struggle with this most of all. Fear. My fear.

I do know that this is going to work out.
I do know that this fear does nothing for me.
I do know that I will not fail to do ANYTHING that I should do if there were 0% fear.
I do know that I would still do everything I should.
I do know that this fear does nothing for anyone; it only bullies one along.
So I do not know why I can not calmly set it down and walk away from it forever. Keeping it is completely and totally irrational.

I don't need it. I don't like it. And I don't want it.

It doesn't make me feel special.
It doesn't make me feel "busy" or "valuable" or "needed."
It just clips wings. Constantly. Invasively. Irrationally.

Jane, how can you let go of something that seems to have its root in a rational thought process, but seems impervious to the results of that thought process when it calls for its death?

Wisdom dictates that fear must die. But it seems shielded from my resolve. Stories of success help. Stories of "how to" help. Knowledge is power and all that. But it doesn't seem to go away.

I am starting to wonder about this more and more. I'm wondering if it's like other addictions. Petted. Encouraged to grow from habit, maybe even ironically encouraged by loathing. And like other addictions - alcoholism for example - the only way to break free is to recognize that the drink has power over me. Even a tiny sip. It grows. It roots. It deceives. Humbling, I know. Am I really that weak? Ah, yes. Maybe, yes.

Maybe I have been deceived into thinking that a tiny dose of fear is healthy. After all - might be dangerous to let go of it entirely. It keeps me honest, right? Maybe not. Maybe I'm too honest not to be honest. Maybe I don't even need a sip of it now and then. Maybe it's nothing but poison to me. And maybe I'm too weak for even a sip. Cause I don't know when to stop. :001_smile:

Who wants to start a local chapter of fearics-anonymous?
I really think that it does nothing for us.

Peace, my sister!
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[swimmermom3]

Which leads me to wonder...is part of the difficulty of these high school years experienced by all engaged parents, no matter where their children attend school? Do we (the group of engaged parents) all second guess our decisions and seek out interesting opportunities for our students to develop their passions and experience their transition into adulthood in safe and nurturing ways?

Jane (who is grateful for this thread as it is providing a necessary attitude adjustment)


And I'm not one of the those downer, self-loathing kind of folks. I'm generally a cheerful, upbeat gal. But I struggle with this most of all. Fear. My fear.


Jane, Janice, my apologies for snipping your posts but I felt the two pieces together get straight to the heart of the matter of educating teens and why it seems so difficult for some of us.

My parents sent me to the Catholic high school, the nuns guiding me along in the college application process, while I did the rest myself as I was highly motivated to get out of the house. My parents were there to pay tuition and check report cards. That was the extent of their involvement. They trusted the nuns and fortunately it worked out well.

There are many days where this is all I want. Oh to be able to turn over the responsibility and angst to someone else and to experience successful results. Somehow, my kids' high school missed this memo. Before yesterday was over, I would have to speak with the arrogant, chauvinistic, jack**s of a VP at our high school and then proceed to point smoking guns at my dd's Spanish 3 teacher who was messing with my dd's attempt to make up a week's worth of work missed due to H1N1.

Janice's day looked similar to mine in so many ways even though my teens are at ps. Some of the similarity may be due to the fact that I hs our youngest and do math with the teens at home, but I think it was the emotion behind the description that I connected to that compelled me to write my first post. Obviously, I support Jane's idea that these years are difficult if you are a fully engaged parent who actually enjoys your interaction with your teens. It doesn't matter how you do school. We love these prickly, outrageous, brilliant yet idiotic, thoughtful, selfish, eager, interesting, passionate young people. We want what's best for them even if we have no clue what that is. And yes, we are afraid. I thought that once the kids quit putting Play Dough up their noses or their fingers in the light sockets, I would be less fearful. Right. What was I thinking? There are days fear and second guessing threaten to swallow me whole and I really didn't think that was my nature.

It's great to encourage fellow home schoolers. It's a disservice to them and the process itself to romanticize it, especially the high school years. The plan here is hs Swimmer Dude through high school. We started home schooling too late for my dd. We used it to advance my middle child. I have too many regrets for both of them. I already know that home schooling is hard, hard work and thanks to you that post on the high school forum, I know that it will only get harder. I thank you for the heads-up.

So Jane, now the question goes back to this concept of "engagement". Are we so hands on that we drive ourselves crazy and deprive our kids of necessary skills to fend and research for themselves or were my parents on to something in their approach?

Sorry this is so long. Really, I don't usually call school officials names.

[elegantlion]

So Jane, now the question goes back to this concept of "engagement". Are we so hands on that we drive ourselves crazy and deprive our kids of necessary skills to fend and research for themselves or were my parents on to something in their approach?

Sorry this is so long. Really, I don't usually call school officials names.

I'll add my experience with the hands off approach. It backfired big time in my case. My parents expected the school system to answers all the whys and hows of getting into college. My older sister successfully navigated those waters, I did not, even though I had the burning desire to leave my hometown. I met my high school guidance counselor once, to change a class. My parents couldn't afford college and I was less than thrilled about working full-time and attending school. My grades/classes were not enough except for minor financial help.

I plan to do things quite differently with my ds. I may make him do more legwork but I plan to be an active "guidance counselor" (said with fear & trembling) and make sure he knows I'm there to help. I want him to have enough foresight (even if I have to put it there) to see where his career choice may land him longterm, not just what it can do for him today.

[Colleen in NS]

Are we so hands on that we drive ourselves crazy and deprive our kids of necessary skills to fend and research for themselves or were my parents on to something in their approach?

I don't know, I wish I'd had more guidance when I was in high school. I had some, but life was kind of messy for me then, and not a whole lot of help was available. It was rather scary, graduating from high school and not really having any plan. Things turned out alright, but I really had no direction and I hated that feeling.

[bugs]

Whoa! I see from your sig that you are in WA. Where are you? I am in Tri-Cities. Perhaps we could cook up a swap?!

:001_huh:Would love to, unfortuantely I am in the Puget Sound area.

[Peela]

Are we so hands on that we drive ourselves crazy and deprive our kids of necessary skills to fend and research for themselves or were my parents on to something in their approach?


I guess its all about balance. My parents also sent me to private school and did nothing but pay the fees. Didnt even check if I did my homework, ever. I was a good student though- always could have been better, but I always did better than average just doing enough.
The presumption I would go to college, since i come form an academic family, ended up with me not going. I left home at 16- still finished school though. Rough time for me (my mother, recently divorced with a new alcoholic boyfriend, kicked me out for seeing an older man). However...I still did well, amazingly.

I lean toward lots of support, then stepping back and letting them experience some failures, and see what they want. Our family style is such that we all do our own thing a lot of the time, and then come together for meals, for together work, for outings..but everyone explores their own interests a lot.
I try and make sure I am not always breathing down my kids' necks or wanting to know what they are thinking. I leave them space for their own privacy, their own inner world.
Finding a direction to point Dd15 in , though, has been agony for me and its been hard to know how much to help. I do feel though that any direction is better than none, because you can always change courses, but its hard if you haven't even got a start anywhere.

I think its scary being a homeschool mum and taking the whole responsibility onto your own shoulders. At least in school, there is no one person to blame if somehow it all goes wrong. I remind myelf though that there are safety nets- many courses and opportunities for kids who drop out of school. I doubt we would need them, but they are there. All is not ever lost. At the very least, I am sure they will look back on these years with fondness for the lifestyle they had.

[Cedarmom]

These posts have been so encouraging! Sometimes I look at other homeschool moms of highschoolers and they seem so together and un-frazzled. And I think I'm doing something wrong because it's so hard. Reading these lets me know it is just hard. Some of it is just normal teenage hard, how hard to push, am I micromanaging or just making sure he doesn't mess up his CC class. Some of it is highschool. I outsource but I'm still keeping up[ with history,latin and economics. And learning how to judge debate. Much of it is reality. I do have to check my son is doing school on the computer, not facebook. He does tell me he has so much school to do and has no free time and he will perish, and then goes and spends 2 hours playing computer games online. I think I though by homeschooling I would have a brilliant kid who was so passionate about learning I never had to motivate him at all. Instead I have a good kid ,who if directed stays mainly on track, and on the whole is way more mature then I was at his his age. Its nice to hear that others have those kind ofkids too.

[swimmermom3]

I guess its all about balance. My parents also sent me to private school and did nothing but pay the fees. Didnt even check if I did my homework, ever. I was a good student though- always could have been better, but I always did better than average just doing enough.
<snip>
I lean toward lots of support, then stepping back and letting them experience some failures, and see what they want. Our family style is such that we all do our own thing a lot of the time, and then come together for meals, for together work, for outings..but everyone explores their own interests a lot.
I try and make sure I am not always breathing down my kids' necks or wanting to know what they are thinking. I leave them space for their own privacy, their own inner world.
Finding a direction to point Dd15 in , though, has been agony for me and its been hard to know how much to help. I do feel though that any direction is better than none, because you can always change courses, but its hard if you haven't even got a start anywhere.

I think its scary being a homeschool mum and taking the whole responsibility onto your own shoulders. At least in school, there is no one person to blame if somehow it all goes wrong. I remind myelf though that there are safety nets- many courses and opportunities for kids who drop out of school. I doubt we would need them, but they are there. All is not ever lost. At the very least, I am sure they will look back on these years with fondness for the lifestyle they had.

Peela, your comment on "always doing better than average by just doing enough" is the major reason I don't advocate my parents' hands-off approach. To this day, I am amazed that compliance can be equated to genuine success. In my case, it's also very difficult to develop a real relationship with your children if you don't talk to them on a deeper level when they are teens. I love my folks but I think our conversations will be forever somewhat superficial. My question was poorly stated.

I'm not sure how to respond to home schooling moms carrying the whole burden vs. no one to blame with schooling. Perhaps the whole issue is too much of a hot button for me right now and it's hard to be rational and write logically.

We started home schooling the youngest when the kids were in 4th, 7th, and 9th grade respectively. The middle one came home in November of that year and was never sorry to miss the rest of middle school. I wouldn't have considered home schooling my dd at the time.

Last year, as many of you know, my dd was diagnosed with depression. We were stunned. The lovely, bright, charming, always cheerful girl was talking suicide and cutting. The counselors, the psychatrist, the school, and extended family all agreed that school and that ugly word "socialization" were the best thing for her. I disagree with all my heart. She is so anxious with regards to the proficiency grading sytem and other aspects of school that she often fails to learn what is needed.

It took days of haggling with the school to allow her to complete geometry and chemistry at home. At her own pace, she has little trouble mastering the work. This year was going better until she missed a week of school due to the flu.

I'm sorry but I envy you all that are carrying the burden of home schooling your high schoolers. Home schooling would not cure my dd's depression but it would allow for some genuine learning. I am bone weary of trying to work with someone else's rules and standards and trying to clean up the mess as we go.

[profmom]

Wow...I may have to start from the top and read through this again. I don't know if I'm encouraged or discouraged -- or more prepared or more afraid, but I really appreciate everyone's posts!

[FourOaks]

Bless you all for these posts! Janice, you are a dream! I have my oldest in 6th this year -- doing a majority of 7th grade work -- and in the past few weeks I've started to really freak out about what is coming in the next couple of years!

I have always been told, and so always thought "don't worry, there's plenty of time, it will be just fine". Well golly gee -- time FLIES and I mean REALLY FLIES!! You get to a point where you really do have to come to the realization that there is no more time. The time is now. Things need to be learned now. Can't put it off any longer.

I am very happy to "hear" whoever posted that you need to look ahead at what is required by colleges and so forth. Just the past few weeks I was thinking that I really should look into what is considered good for high school credit, what colleges that offer degrees that my dd might be interested (and there are probably 10-15) would require. . .because if I don't look ahead NOW, then it might be too late!

So thank you all so very much. I truly find everything you hsing high school moms have to say fascinating and wonderful knowledge!!!

[Tammyla]

I'm so glad I read this thread, thank you, thank you.


This week has been difficult to say the least.:banghead:

[Janice in NJ]

Oh don't be afraid. :001_smile:

Every snap-shot has a setting. And you can't judge a life by one picture or even two or three. Please know that we have our amazing wonderful days. I write often about them here too. :001_smile: But I would be offering up a lying view if I hid our other photos, so I share them too. (And it's when I'm down that I tend to need the most BTDT chatter; I NEED you guys during those times!) My photo album is growing as we move into high school. Some of the pages aren't my favorites, but I have no desire to toss those pictures and only put the "best of the best" in the album. Because those peaks don't tell the whole story. And often the valleys are the places where our lives change the most. Leaving those out of the album will generate more confusion than is necessary - for others and for me. :001_smile: They represent the bulk of the effort, and deserve to be included; because they touch at the heart of the matter - the life of this life, they tell most of the story. :001_smile:

In this post, we've bounced around a couple of ideas about the fear thing. It's really a bad idea to let fear carve out the shape of even one of your lenses. Sober judgement? Sure! Honesty? Absolutely. But please don't be afraid. I live here in this particular hsing life, and I'm constantly frustrated by any "fear" that creeps in. It's irrational. High school at home here is a ton of work, and the whole process often becomes terribly confusing even though I'm not generally that easily confused. But like I have said, I live here; and I can confidently and honestly say that life is good. I have nothing to be afraid of. People who intimately know our family agree, so I know that I'm not delusional - so that helps! :lol:

So the trajectory of life is good, even when the dips feel yuckie. :001_smile:

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[Julie in MN]

Really, I don't think that my concerns and worries are unique to homeschoolers but to any concerned parent.


Which leads me to wonder...is part of the difficulty of these high school years experienced by all engaged parents, no matter where their children attend school? Do we (the group of engaged parents) all second guess our decisions and seek out interesting opportunities for our students to develop their passions and experience their transition into adulthood in safe and nurturing ways?

Jane (who is grateful for this thread as it is providing a necessary attitude adjustment)


It depends on the child and on the parent, but YES. I've had public schooled kids and run myself ragged trying to guide them through their own blunders and the blunders of those running the public schools.

Maybe you feel it more because you can't "blame" anyone else, and it all is on your shoulders? I actually prefer it when I can clearly blame myself, because I don't like the feeling of being angry at someone else :001_huh: But either way is hard.

Julie

[Martha]

For me Janice seems to have very similiar days to mine.
I am not going to even contemplate how it will be for when my current 9th grader is in 12th grade and I will then also have an 11th, 9th, 8th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, 1st and preschooler. Okay I will contemplate it with the false confidence that my then I'll be a worry-free pro. :willy_nilly:

For me my guilt moments are doubled for my oldest - the poor guinea pig trail and error eldest. I am always wishing I could go back and be the better mother/educator to him that I've only learned to be by learning as I go with him. I really don't have much stress at all over the kids comming up behind him. There's always individual quirks and such to be managed but I seem to have a tremendously better grasp of how to do it, a clearer awareness of what they need and what I want for them. But my oldest? It all new territory for both of us. Some days it's the most awesome of joyful adventures. But wow when it stinks it's awful. It IS a roller coaster.

[Karin]

I've been diligently trying to read all the replies, but want to quickly respond to the OP about that comment before I keep reading this great thread because I'm sure to get distracted from my original thought.

First, I'm a fan of Jane in NC, but wow, what a great comment Janice made in SWB's new blog (which I hadn't even known about until now.
Why is it great? It's not just because I can totally relate to this, although that helps. But it's because it raises some excellent points and questions, even if she wishes she could edit :).

One of the things I'm finding with a freshman in the house is that I'm working on doing a better job with my younger dc in certain areas. Not that I think I failed with my dd or that I didn't make some good choices in choosing my battles with her. But of course I could have done some things better; that's part of not being perfect. But my other dc, challenging as though the are, are not as difficult to work with in some areas as dd was, so I need to push more in certain areas than I could with her. My goal is to do better and better and to learn. As an eldest child who was the guinea pig child, I do empathise with my eldest who was the same. But since each child is unique, I really don't have all the answers for the other two.

[Karin]

Homeschooling. High School.
So nothing's wrong. Everything's fine.
Don't worry. :001_smile:

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey



Okay, I'm now a fan of Janice in NJ because she is able to keep it real and make me laugh at the same time. This is not to belittle what she's saying, of course. But what she writes about is so real.

Plus, in my house subjects are only fun when they're done for fun with now written work. As soon as it's a textbook or assigned, it's boring, hard, etc. Much of the time, at least.

[Karin]

Now that I've read through all the posts, to save writing a lot of replies, I'm quoting a few snippets from some of the great replies. My computer won't allow multiple quotes, but this thread is so timely, that I've cut and pasted a bunch into Word so I could do this. Thanks, Jane, for posting this, because I really needed it now, and am not discouraged, but am more encouraged to know that it's not just hard for us and that we're not the only ones whose kids don't love school work ;).

Janice's comments struck a chord with me. I loved the part about normal students who would rather sleep-in and play video games than investigate string theory. My son is a smart, motivated , wonderful young man. But given his choice, he would still rather play video games than school. Back when he was young I did have visions of him never even wanting to watch tv and video games would of course be no interest for him compared to the thrill of calculus. So, the homeschooing journey has not always gone as planned, but it has been good.
Me, too. We don't have video games, but my kids would rather play/read/draw/fool around. I had such an idealized idea of what homeschooling would be that I think I was probably one of those mothers people would have figured wouldn't make it so far. That vision was shattered our first year of homeschooling!


Into this discussion I toss in the CC concept. Some note that they live near an "excellent" CC; ours is not. But whether the CC has a reputation that is stellar or significantly inferior to similar institutions, bear in mind that not every teacher is excellent or mediocre. My son learned a great deal from his English 111 instructor last semester; his English prof this semester has her moments, but she is not as demanding or inspiring. She is adequate. In fact, I feel that I can manage an "adequate" job at home. What is the advantage of this CC class?

Initially sending our students to outside courses brings other benefits. Our students are exposed to people who think differently or maybe like-mindedly (wow--there is someone as odd as me out there!). My son is immensely grateful to have learned how to use software like Blackboard. But our CC has too many students who accept mediocrity as a standard--at this point I worry that my son may succumb to a similar mentality.

Homeschooling high school is hard. On that many of us will agree.

Jane


These are great points. We haven't done CC yet, but hope to. I think that anything can be over or underrated, too, and that each of us needs to strive to strike the right balance for our families. Not easy to do, is it?

I used to wonder when I went to homeschool meetings where the more experienced moms were. The only people who seem to have the time to blog, write homeschool articles, go to homeschool meetings, etc. are the moms with younger dc. So I think that is part of the reason we see so much more about the fun times with preschoolers.


Good point. I have less time to be on this forum this year than ever, and only one of my three is in high school. It's not just because I have one in high school, though, but I'm trying to beef up what my younger ones have been missing out on that we used to do when dd was aged 8-10 (group science classes, etc).

My list, which isn't going to be very funny after Janice's stream-of-consciousness rant

3. Time in the car doesn't have to be car schooling -- with a teen, time in a car is a chance to chat -- drug prevention bonding!

5. Not every course is as in depth as you'd like. We call them "Git 'er done" courses, or "checking off the box" courses. There is only so much time in the day for a student to work, only so many hours we can give up on the weekends in planning. Focus on the basics, focus on your dc's interests, get the rest done in as easy a manner as possible.

6. (Echoing Janice here ) Dinner? All their activities are in the evening. It is a shock when the entire family unit is together for a meal -- and usually there is no food to prepare as I haven't had time to grocery shop so we all go out to eat.



Many good points, but these three really rang for me. I teach pre-driver's ed while we're driving sometime. But most of the time we don't drive far and by the time we leave my kids are picking at each other or being too silly, so I put something on the CD player and have them all sit quietly so I can focus on driving safely. As for meals together, dh hardly ever eats a meal with us, and so family bonding happens in other ways.

[Karin]

Part 2 so this doesn't get so long that I lose my post because I'm no longer signed in!



I feel its all going to work out but its not a smooth straightforward plan, thats for sure. Things change, are in a flux, all the time. I want another year with my dd15 before she goes off to TAFE(our equivalent of CC I think) so I can teach her all those things I want to teach her before she flies off. She is itching for her freedom- she wanted to go to school next year, but I am very keen to keep her home. So many books I wanted her to read that I dont know if we will realistically have time for.

I feel a bittersweet pang as my kids grow up. All the doubts about whether I have prepared them well enough for the world or academically come up. I feel I can see a time in the not too distant future where it will be just Dh and I going on our holidays...so we are trying to fit in some extra ones now. We want to teach our kids how to live, not just how to get a good paying job- they are motivated to make money already. But these are the years of mature discussion, and immature emotions, then logical arguments, then totally irrational outbursts. I miss being able to put my son on my knee when he cries, and hug him. That was so much easier. Now he stands aloof and gets upset and storms around and I draw him through with patience and long discussion where before a cuddle was enough.

Anyway, it's all worth it and I love these years. The academic side I find harder. There is a lot of joy though.

I think its scary being a homeschool mum and taking the whole responsibility onto your own shoulders. At least in school, there is no one person to blame if somehow it all goes wrong. I remind myelf though that there are safety nets- many courses and opportunities for kids who drop out of school. I doubt we would need them, but they are there. All is not ever lost. At the very least, I am sure they will look back on these years with fondness for the lifestyle they had.


I've taken two of Peela's posts and combined snippets from each to save space. Both posts were wonderful, but these particular points rang strongly for me. I do want to say that, similar to Peela, I slipped through school without my parents doing a lot of checking. Had they been more on top of things, I would have had better grades. Actually, I would have had a different educational experience altogether starting at 15, but my dad wouldn't hear of me going to an Alternative school, even if it wasn't for the academically struggling.

There is so much food for thought in this entire thread. Even though we have our tough days and our daily challenges, my kids are very close to one another and we do also laugh often, even if the jokes aren't always very funny. I married a man who, with the privacy of our immediate family at least, laughs at his own jokes. At first I thought it was dumb, but I've learned that it's actually a great way to keep humour in things and not get overly serious about things that don't warrant it. I tend to be a very serious person by nature and didn't even start learning to laugh at myself until I was 16. Learning to laugh at my own dumb jokes has helped me learn not to take everything equally seriously.

Thanks, everyone, for contributing to this thread. As I've been reading it, I've been checking on my 14 yo who is still dragging herself through some Geometry proofs that she could have and should have done 3 weeks ago...

[Lori D.]

Ah, ladies, I read this thread late last night with out-loud laughter and tears. I felt like I was at an up-all-night-sharing slumber party with you all! How I WISH we really could have a weekend all together to giggle and share fears, be goofy, encourage one another, and just "let our hair down" safely!!

And Janice, thanks for sharing such a *genuine* day -- a total relief to hear that someone I so look up to has days (and children!!) that look a bit like mine! :) TOTALLY relate to that need to just PEE and everything else is in your face! :smilielol5:

Thank you!! And mega group hug! :grouphug: Warmest regards to you all, Lori D.

[swimmermom3]

It depends on the child and on the parent, but YES. I've had public schooled kids and run myself ragged trying to guide them through their own blunders and the blunders of those running the public schools.

Maybe you feel it more because you can't "blame" anyone else, and it all is on your shoulders? I actually prefer it when I can clearly blame myself, because I don't like the feeling of being angry at someone else :001_huh: But either way is hard.

Julie

Thanks Julie. You stated it so clearly.

[transientChris]

. There are those kids for whom a "rigorous" WTM high school education is not the right fit. It doesn't mean you give up on great or pretty darn good books, of give up on analysis and writing, but it just may not go at the pace or to the depth you had hoped. Not every kid is ready for a 4 year college at 18, some might do best with CC or a trade school if they can follow a passion and be happy. It is wrenching to come to terms with that -- I am speaking from experience, but once you accept it, everyone is happier.

And for others who need an equally rigorous education but in a different way. My oldest did it mostly the WTM way and it was perfect for him. My second tried, got very sick, and we had to reconfigure. She is doing rigorous but with minor emphasis on world history. We will end up doing that next year in one year but since she had it all earlier, it will be enough. She has been reading classics and writing a lot. My third will need a different emphasis altogether. She is my math/engineering gal and needs less classics and history and more math and science. Will she do classis-yes. Will she study history- yesm but from textbooks which is the format she likes. Will she write papers-yes but not as many as her sister.

NOw for the realities- I found out this weekend that while my daughter was doing plenty of work, she was doing it in an unusual way. I have decided to have her do math problems in 2 lesson sequences because the Alg 2 is all review until halfway through Chapter 6. She also had watched the lectures ahead of the work she was doing. With her bio, she has been reading the text but is behind a bit on the lecture and homework. She has been keeping up with AM. Hist. but I decided to make sure that didn't get beind by assigning x pages per day. Her British Lit is going great as is her writing class, her debate work, and her govt class. Her Spanish is a mystery that will be solved today after she finds her assignment calendar or we have to recreate one.

[Nan in Mass]

Believe me, you blame yourself just as much if your child is in public school as you do when you homeschool. I have one of each in college. I would love to be able to blame the public school over the mess we had with my oldest, but I just can't. It doesn't work like that. You will still feel it is your fault, no matter how much the public school errs. -Nan

[Nan in Mass]

That is a good point. The unschoolers I know about have made full use of these. Their children have spent the high school years learning a few things in great depth (becoming very interesting people in the process), and then taken advantage of the safety nets to fill in the gaps when they needed the gaps filled to pursue their interests further. Unschooling parents always say the nets are there and we can always use them. We've used them, too, in a way, when we've used community college as a bridge. Thank you for reminding me that they exist. I hope my children won't need them extensively because I think it takes more strength to use them than to do things the regular way, but it is reassuring to remember they are there.
-Nan

[swimmermom3]

That is a good point. The unschoolers I know about have made full use of these. Their children have spent the high school years learning a few things in great depth (becoming very interesting people in the process), and then taken advantage of the safety nets to fill in the gaps when they needed the gaps filled to pursue their interests further. Unschooling parents always say the nets are there and we can always use them. We've used them, too, in a way, when we've used community college as a bridge. Thank you for reminding me that they exist. I hope my children won't need them extensively because I think it takes more strength to use them than to do things the regular way, but it is reassuring to remember they are there.
-Nan

Nan, could you please elaborate on this. I'm not sure I'm following. Thank you.

[Nan in Mass]

Peela wrote: "I remind myelf though that there are safety nets- many courses and opportunities for kids who drop out of school." These, and the courses and opportunities for the ones who graduate from high school and then decide later to go to college are the safety net things I'm talking about. And the unschooling part: I met an unschooler who taught himself to juggle. Using that, he created opportunities for himself to perform and teach juggling. He didn't do much else during high school, other than read, travel, and watch the history channel. When he wanted to go to college, he found had to catch up in math before any colleges would consider him. He took the remedial classes offered at the community college and then went off to study broadcasting. The community college classes were his safety net. There are GED classes, community classes offered at public high schools, and other options, too, for gathering enough academic skills to manage college. This is a hard path to follow, though, so I'm hoping mine don't need to.
-nan

[Mad Jenny Flint]

It is not easy, is it? I have already changed our history curriculum this year from the Spielvogel textbook approach with handy-dandy study guide and online quizzes to Susan's Ancient History text (we are doing a little catch-up reading only for the next week, and then will use the book as a foundation for note-taking and writing context pages and papers as Susan intends in WTM).

We are doing biology in the very textbook-oriented way, but it feels like overload. However, I am torn between wanting to be more leisurely and deep in our learning and wanting to prepare my children for learning the "traditional" way so that in college they won't be completely blind-sided by the amount of reading, the skimming for details, the quizzes and tests, the expectation to know material that is bulky, and quickly. We are doing that in biology, and then I find that he is having difficulty retaining the information past the quiz... just as I did in my own years of public high school and public college. He will retain the nuggets, but it moves so quickly. Sigh.

I am also coming to the conclusion that online courses look like more effort than they are worth- for me. Time is at a premium in this house, and the efficient use of it for teaching and for learning is what we need here. The days fly by as it is.

There is time for fun here. I don't mean to imply otherwise. There is time for specialization and activity outside of academics. My frustration is that I believed, foolishly, back when my son was in K, that one day I would get this home education thing nailed down. Heck, my program is even accredited. And, I continue to feel like I am floundering from year to year.

It's because the demands change every year- and because these little suckers (ahem, my children) change every year. I keep feeding them and they grow and they experience and they learn and BAM. They are new people and the requirements change. And if I am honest with myself, it is far more frequently than every year that I find I must shift gears in this little home education world I have created.

At the end of every year, I cull my files and save the most important bits for proof, if ever I should need it. I marvel at all the important bits. I marvel that I have been able to assign so much, to grade so much. I marvel that they have been so diligent in getting the work done all year long. Then I panic at the realization that I must plan a new year never knowing whether it is "good enough."

They are growing and maturing and they know things that I don't even know how they know them. Their test scores have always been high, they work hard, they are developing new skills. They are good people who choose good people to befriend. We get lots of teachable moments and lots of intimate moments and tons of snuggle time. We can take breaks from the grind and enjoy each other. These are the things that I must call to mind when I am wondering whether it is "good enough." Not the feeling of anxiety that I am not doing it according to some "standard" or like the home schooler across town or on that nifty blog I read sometimes.

This is why I keep going. This is why it is worth all the doubt that I feel at times. And, now I have four minutes to get myself through the shower so I can take a walk in the rain with my children.

[Nan in Mass]

I bet public school teachers can relate to that, too GRIN. They have to leave 20 or 30 students.

[Nan in Mass]

Here is that comic: http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComick.mpl?date=20081016&name=Zits
I have this on my fridge.

[Kareni]

Here is that comic: http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComick.mpl?date=20081016&name=Zits
I have this on my fridge.

The comic is so very true, Nan! Thanks for posting it.

Regards,
Kareni

[Quiver0f10]

Here is that comic: http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComick.mpl?date=20081016&name=Zits
I have this on my fridge.

Very funny :D

[Karin]

Peela wrote: "I remind myelf though that there are safety nets- many courses and opportunities for kids who drop out of school." These, and the courses and opportunities for the ones who graduate from high school and then decide later to go to college are the safety net things I'm talking about. And the unschooling part: I met an unschooler who taught himself to juggle. Using that, he created opportunities for himself to perform and teach juggling. He didn't do much else during high school, other than read, travel, and watch the history channel. When he wanted to go to college, he found had to catch up in math before any colleges would consider him. He took the remedial classes offered at the community college and then went off to study broadcasting. The community college classes were his safety net. There are GED classes, community classes offered at public high schools, and other options, too, for gathering enough academic skills to manage college. This is a hard path to follow, though, so I'm hoping mine don't need to.
-nan

And at this point in time, even if my dc end up getting an Associates by 18 at a CC (not that we're planning to at this point, but if the funding remains & homeschoolers can go for no charge) they will still need a GED to go to a state college, based on something I heard recently. I don't like that one bit, but it may end up being something some or all of my dc may have to do if the tuition savings in going that route are enough. Unless, of course, any of them gets a full ride scholarship to a private college or decides to borrow money and get up to their ears or more in debt.

[Nan in Mass]

I thought for a long time that some of our decisions for our son would make us forfeit the state college option. And then an out-of-state college accepted him. I still don't know whether an instate one would have. They seem to be trickier to get into than other colleges. I hear you and sympathize.
-Nan