At what age would you leave your kids in the car?

[profmom]

This would be in a safe area of town, with the doors locked -- to drop off something just inside a building, or even to put books into a library drop box that you're parked near?

[RoughCollie]

I leave my boys in the SUV while I run in to the grocery, drug store, or library, if they prefer that. I take the keys, lock the car, and leave the cell phone and usually the dog, with them. I also order them to stay out of the front seat because the windows are tinted on the sides and no one can easily tell they are in the car. Usually they would rather come with me.

I never leave my DD in the car, with or without the boys. DD doesn't even realize it, because she is always eager to go into stores to spend my money.

I didn't leave the boys in the car before this year. I've always just schlepped everyone around with me wherever I go.

[Sue G in PA]

I have 6 ranging in age from 2 - 11. If my dd11 is in the van...I'll leave her "in charge" while I run into the post office, conv. store, to pick up a prescription, etc. (situations where I'll be less than 5 minutes and can usually see the van at all times) AND I lock the door. If she is not with us, I typically make all dc come in with me. I'd never leave my dd2 alone no matter what...too risky. AND, I couldn't leave ANY of them in the van alone if I'm going into a big store like our grocery store, Walmart, Target, etc. even for 5 minutes b/c I wouldn't be able to look out a window and see the van. KWIM? I'm just too paranoid. Situations like the one with the woman in IL...I do all the time. Just today I left all dc in the van while I returned a shopping cart to the front of the store (probably same distance away as the situation in question).

[j.griff]

The laws here in CA state that a person age 13 or older must be in any parked vehicle in which minors are present. So, I leave my 13yo with my 3 Littles- doors locked, alarm activated. :)

[Kate in VA]

Never.... It isn't even an option in my mind..... My mom used to do this with my brother and I and I hated it...
We also don't live in the best area... but nowadays... Who does? It only takes a second for something to happen and my world could come to an end...
Having said that it seems like I am very overprotected but honestly I am far from it....
Also I know something can happen any time but I really don't want to contribute to it if I can help it .... KWIM?

[Kate in VA]

Also... apparently it is ok in my state to leave a * year old by them selves for I think up to 3 hours ( a friend told me this) and she thought it was great....:confused: She was so happy that she only had to take her dd with her and her son could stay home!!!! AT 8 years old!!!!!!! no way in my book!:banghead:

[Peek a Boo]

I leave my crew of 5 for 5-10 minutes quite a bit.
We do a lot of driving and my van is a virtual playground of stocked supplies.
:auto:
My mom used to leave the three of us in the car while she grocery shopped. For far longer than a few minutes. I remember thinking then that she was nuts. And i still think she is/was! my li'l bro was the youngest --probably around 4 if I can remember the incidents.


I am more concerned about accidents on the road than anything happening to them in a parked, locked vehicle. In 5-10 minutes. Statistically speaking.

My oldest is 13, so that's easier now.
2d is 10 --i'm sure bystanders would question it.

Legally?
-----------
Texas Law:
Leaving a child in a vehicle is punishable under the Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 22, Section 10 LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is:

younger than seven years of age; and

not attended by an individual in the vehicle
who is 14 years of age or older. An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. If the child is injured, the charge is then elevated to child endangerment, which is a felony. The penalties are six months to two years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.

----------------------------
So if my 2yo falls asleep when we get home and I leave him in the van, regardless how "safe" our yard is or what steps i take, if I am not *attending* him in the vehicle I'm criminally negligent. We've been through this discussion tho already :)

But as far as something like running into the post office?
Using my brain to assess the variables?

1. I won't leave the 2yo or 4yo or 6yo alone in the van. Unless the 2yo JUST went to sleep and the odds of him waking up are slim. They aren't ready for the lonely feel that comes just w/me walking off w/o them and no one else they know around. i won't leave the 2yo and 4yo together -- they need an older sibling.

2. I *will* leave the 2yo, 4yo, and 6yo alone *together* -- they do great as a team keeping each other company. :grouphug:

3. Include the 10yo in any of the above scenarios, and some alone scenarios.

4. i won't even leave the 13yo or any of them in a bigger place like walmart or location i don't know the dynamics of.

and i tend to be overprotective --i make them go into the restrooms w/ the buddy system and am pretty particular about other things where they are out of sight. Some statistics I feel comfortable siding w/ --others I don't. Kids in sight is a stickler for me.

But after reading story after story and reason after reason spanning various sides of this, I'm trusting my gut on this one. Who knows -- that might change as the dynamics of the places we go change.

[Michele in New Zealand]

Dd12 stays in the car on her own if she wants, but only if I am no longer than 5 minutes. She has the cellphone, two dogs and (apparently!) ninja fighting skills! I have to be able to see her from the shop that I am in and it has to be a cool day, temp wise.

:auto:

[Karen sn]

Peek, you just reminded me of my dd (who was not even 3 at the time) and I clearly remember her FINALLY falling asleep in the truck on the way home from the store. It was a peace that I cherished. I rolled all the windows down, parked 3 feet in front of my living room window, and brought the groceries in - I could see the car the whole time. (Safe neighborhood, big dog in the yard, the living room windows were open, the door as well, she was shaded and cool.....I totally let her sleep while I worked in the front yard garden -running inside to grab things on occasion).

And many times she would play in the back of the truck (Ford Explorer) while I worked in the yard. We thought it was the greatest play pen EVER. She would ASK if she could. She had her books and toys in there. So now - if a cop (or community watch person) who has no common sense whatsoever came to the scene, I wonder what would happen? She is not even 3yo and no one is IN the car watching her!!!!! Never mind that I am in the yard ten feet away.......technically she was in a car alone.

I worried more about nap or quiet time when she was all alone in her room and I could not see her. There was a kid kidnapped out of his bedroom at night just a few hours away from us - he was not harmed and the perp left him on the sidewalk when he heard the sirens. But the thought of it made me lock our big dog in the room with her whenever she was napping or in quiet time.

[Colleen]

Actually, I started at around age 35, if memory serves me correctly...

:lol::lol:

[PariSarah]

:biggrinjester:

[angela in ohio]

I don't. I'm never really going in anywhere that they can't come with me.

If you do, though: I heard someone once say that if you wouldn't leave your purse sitting on the seat in a situation, then don't leave your dc. That seems like a good rule of thumb.

[GreenKitty]

I don't. I carried them for months, gave birth to them and brought them into this world knowing I would take care of them. They go where I go.

Makes me sick when I hear how a camera or purse is more important to take with you than your child.

[Karenciavo]

I usually just leave them home so they can keep working, http://www.smileygenerator.us/community/searchsmiley/w/whip.gif but if they happen to be with me they usually want to come in which is fine. Otherwise, it's 5 minutes or so, I guess since the oldest was 12.

[Quiver0f10]

I leave my kids in the car with one of my older teens. I guess I would say if a child is old enough to legally babysit, then they should be old enough to be left in a locked car.

This is Arkansas law on leaving a child in a car unattended:

Leaving Children or Pets Unattended

While the state doesn't have any specific laws concerning leaving children or animals unattended in vehicles, common sense dictates using extreme caution when doing so, especially during periods of excessive heat or cold. If you see an endangered child or animal, call 911 and give the vehicle location.

[ThelmaLou]

My boys are 12, 11, 9, 7, and 18 months. The only times I leave them in the car are when I can still see tha car from where I'm going. The list is short: dry cleaners, post office, UPS store, and the occasional gas station only if I just have to go right inside the door. Otherwise, they all come with me. Fortunately, I'm usually able to leave my 2 oldest at home when the baby's napping. That way, I only have my 9 and 7 yo with me for most errands. Most of my errands revolve around the baby's nap schedule. Toting him around town makes my life too difficult. Not to mention all the nasty stuff on grocery carts, etc...

[lynn]

I left my son when he was 8 to run into the post office but took the baby with me. At about 11 I would let him stay with the 3 year old and do a 20min shopping trip into Publix which was in a nicer safe are than say Walmart I wouldnever leave them alone in WM or bigger more public parking lots like the Mall.

[KAR120C]

Actually, I started at around age 35, if memory serves me correctly...

:lol::lol:
Last year I turned 35 and my dad called to say I was old enough to date now! ;)

[Gamom3]

He is 18(have since he was 15), yes I would leave my 11ds(12 next Friday) and 10 dd in the car. If oldest ds is not, absolutely NOT, there are some crazy people out there, they don't care if it is a small town, :willy_nilly: are there too!

[Plaid Dad]

In our state, if memory serves, children under the age of 12 cannot be left unattended in a car. While I think the law is probably unduly cautious, I plan to observe it. I would think that most kids could be left from age 7 or 8 under the circumstances you mention.

[Beth in Central TX]

I didn't know the Texas law on this, but I'm glad to find that I usually do the right thing. If I'm running quick errands to the bank, the post office, the library, etc., and I have to get out of the car, I usually take my youngest son in with me and leave my older boys in the car reading. Since we do live in Texas, I never let them stay in the car by themselves (even thought they want to) when the weather gets too hot. Once we start hitting 90+ degrees consistently, no one stays in the car. I never leave them in the car when I go into a large store where I can't see them easily or get to the car quickly (ie. Wal-mart).

[Pamela H in Texas]

If I could see the car, I wouldn't worry about it at all regardless of age as long as we're talking just a few minutes (which is what I don't understand about the lawsuit against that woman).

To go in an pay for gas? It SO depends. Almost always, I took the kids. Then I had kids old enough to pay and pump and so I sit pretty waiting for them :)

I was wrong about the Texas Law (I thought it was 12 PERIOD and for NO amount of time under that...that anyone under 12 needed to be with someone over 18). I have always followed that "law" in terms of going to the post office, Walmart, etc.

Anyway, I really think better safe than sorry. However, I DO know it can be hard to get multiple littles out. When my kids were 5 and 2, I had four more kids (foster) under 2. And more recently, I've had in-home childcare kids in the 0-4yr old range so still a lot of kids to tow even when my kids were bigger.

[DollyM]

That was my line of demarkation. If I couldn't see the car, I didn't leave them. Regardless of the age until early teens.

ONCE I've left a SLEEPING infant, strapped in a car seat to check a post office box where I could SEE THE CAR at all time. I remember counting how many seconds it took me: 35 seconds. I was frantic but it was "necessary" and I realized I've waited longer at a traffic signal. It was a judgement call, and I thought it was prudent at the time. But it stressed me out.

I didn't ROUTINELY leave them unattended until they were much older, probably 8-9 years for my oldest DD, and her younger brother was 5-6. This would be in situtations where STILL I could SEE the car at all times.

Somewhere in their early teens I started giving them the option in situations where I would NOT BE able to see the car: "We need milk - do you want anything while I run in this store? Do you want to come in with me? No? Well, keep the doors locked, I'll be right back."

[Pretty in Pink]

i have left them in the van, doors locked, van in sight at all times while i walk to the library drop box which is on the outside of the building or the movie drop box at blockbuster. never if i have to go INSIDE a building though.

[hsmom]

Dh is absolutely against it! So, no matter what age, where, or anything no I do not leave them in the car.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

I never leave my kids in the car and it drives them crazy sometimes. I mean if the weather is horid they hate being drug out for a few minutes to go inside here or there, but that is life, they are safer with me than in the car.

[nestof3]

At what age would you leave your kids in the car?

Funny, I read the question as "at what age would you leave your kids in the car?"

I am obviously not thinking clearly today, because so many of the answers are "No" and "Never."

Well, no makes no sense and never means what? When they are legally an adult (18) you will leave them in the car, but until then, they have to come with you in the store? So, I'm assuming your 17 year olds will not be driving by themselves until they are 18? Never, meaning as long as they are still your offspring? :confused: :lol::lol::lol:

An actual age is hard for me to come up with for things other than returning a cart. I cannot remember when we started allowing our oldest to sit in a car alone, or stay home alone for that matter. I can say that I wouldn't let my younger boys stay in a car alone at these ages (6 and 8) unless I were able to see the van (drop off boxes, cart returns, driveway). I cannot say now when I will feel safe about this, but I'm sure it will be one of those things they slowly reveals itself.

I did look up the law in my state so that I would know the punishable risk I was putting myself under. I never looked into it before because I tend to use my own judgement on these matter and never even think of consulting a law. Like seatbelts: we were buckling everyone even when backseat drivers were not required to be buckled. My mother-in-law, however, admits she only wears her seatbelt because the law says to.

"unattended child" = a child under six years of age who has been left in a motor vehicle by the driver or operator of the vehicle when the driver or operator is unable to continuously observe the child, unless a person 12 years of age or older is physically present in the motor vehicle with the child.

[Excelsior! Academy]

I didn't until a year or so ago. The ONLY time(s) I do is if I take $ from the ATM which is right by the window so I can see the car. Because I wait to go in until there is no line, this takes less than 1 minute. I have also gone in to pay for gas before the goofy pay first rule. :blink: Yes, I have been known to put library books and Blockbuster movies in the slot while the kiddos were still in the car. To me *none* of these is bad as letting young kids ride their bikes unattended for hours through the neighborhood.

When dd11 was 4 and in public school, there was a kid that was considered a "walker" by the school. He was allowed to walk home from Pre-K. (And he did not live across the street...it was a couple of blocks away.) THIS is worse than me walking 5-10 steps to drop off a movie at Blockbuster, and it was considered okay by the parents and school. ARGH!

*off soapbox*

[nestof3]

I have had no success locating the law in Virginia on leaving children unattended at home.

Can anyone help me out?

[j.griff]

I do not think that every state has a law stating an acceptable age limit for leaving children at home.

[j.griff]

There may be a municipal code for your city though, that addresses that situation.

[WendyK]

As of now, never. But my kids are young (6 and 2). So maybe I would change my mind based on me feeling they could handle that. I just don't see when this would be necessary. I always bring them in with me. And that will only get easier as they get older (not more difficult).

[AudreyTN]

I don't. I carried them for months, gave birth to them and brought them into this world knowing I would take care of them. They go where I go.

Makes me sick when I hear how a camera or purse is more important to take with you than your child.

:iagree: My sister in law left my kids in the car while she ran in for pizza once (they were 4,3,2). She wasn't allowed to watch them again.

[j.griff]

I found this info:
Virginia state statutes do not set a specific age after which a child legally can stay alone. Age alone is not a very good indicator of a child's maturity level. Some very mature 10-year-olds may be ready for self-care while some 15-year-olds may not be ready due to emotional problems or behavioral difficulties. In determining whether a child is capable of being left alone and whether a parent is providing adequate supervision in such situations, child protective services (CPS) will assess several areas. These areas include:

A Child's Level Of Maturity. CPS will want to assess whether the child is physically capable of taking care of himself; is mentally capable of recognizing and avoiding danger and making sound decisions; is emotionally ready to be alone; knows what to do and whom to call if an emergency arises; and has special physical, emotional, or behavioral problems that make it unwise to leave be left alone. It is important to note that a child who can take care of him/herself may not be ready to care for younger children.

Accessibility of Those Responsible for the Child. CPS will want to determine the location and proximity of the parents, whether they can be reached by phone and can get home quickly if needed, and whether the child knows the parents' location and how to reach them.

The Situation. CPS will want to assess the time of day and length of time the children are left alone; the safety of the home or neighborhood; whether the parents have arranged for nearby adults to be available in case a problem arises; and whether there is a family history of child abuse or neglect.

It is also helpful to have this Safety Plan including parent’s phone numbers, the arranged neighbor’s name, address and phone numbers and other pertinent information written down and posted somewhere visible in the home.


at this website http://www.chesapeake.va.us/services/depart/humanser/child_protective_services.shtml

[Call Me Cordelia]

I don't. I'm never really going in anywhere that they can't come with me.

If you do, though: I heard someone once say that if you wouldn't leave your purse sitting on the seat in a situation, then don't leave your dc. That seems like a good rule of thumb.

This makes no sense to me. I'll leave my 15.5 ds many places that I would not leave my purse!!

I follow the legal limit, but doubt I'll leave my girls very long ever if ds isn't there. The longest I've left any of them is at the post office and I could see them the entire time.

[Colleen]

I leave my purse (or whatever equivalent I'm using) in the car all the time.:) That analogy just...doesn't make sense to me.

[CookieMonster]

My sister and I, at age 10 and 12 repectively, managed to get my father's car out of gear, completely by accident, and have it roll across the apartment parking lot before my dad could go inside briefly for something.

We were 10 and 12.

We were good kids.

We decided to goof around. And the car started rolling.

Our solution was to jump out of the rolling car and try to hold it back with our hands. :blush:

So, I'm just saying...

[j.griff]

Do you leave your purse in the seat of your car? :) The thought is- if you aren't comfortable leaving your valuables in plain sight in your vehicle for fear of someone breaking into the vehicle to steal your "things", then you should be much less comfortable leaving your precious child in a vehicle in plain sight of strangers who may decide to break into the vehicle and steal your child. Then we end up studying statistics again, LOL, and then we discuss how we all follow our own gut instincts, etc. ;)

[Colleen]

Do you leave your purse in the seat of your car? :)

It's not unusual for me to leave valuables in my car ~ the car I don't always lock, btw.

Then we end up studying statistics again, LOL, and then we discuss how we all follow our own gut instincts, etc.

Yep. And I'm not worried about people stealing my kids out of my car.

[Michelle T]

The laws here in CA state that a person age 13 or older must be in any parked vehicle in which minors are present. So, I leave my 13yo with my 3 Littles- doors locked, alarm activated. :)



I just left DS, who is 11.5, in the car for a couple minutes while I put a deposit in the auto teller at the bank. I could see him the entire time, and I locked the car and took the keys with me. He just wanted to sit and read in the car.

Guess I'll wait before I do that again!
Michelle T :confused:

[nestof3]

Michelle,

All I could find was this:
A parent, legal guardian, or other person responsible
for a child who is 6 years of age or younger may not leave that child
inside a motor vehicle without being subject to the supervision of aperson who is 12 years of age or older, under either of the following circumstances:

(1) Where there are conditions that present a significant risk to
the child's health or safety.

(2) When the vehicle's engine is running or the vehicle's keys are
in the ignition, or both.


I cannot find the document indicating 13 years or older, so I cannot see what age they consider "minor."

[Calming Tea]

at 14, with locked car, alarm, and cell phone, and I'm talking about a quick run into the store, not full fledged shopping. However if it was a girl and she was a small 14 (some 14 year old girls look like they're 11) then I wouldn't do it- she would be too much of a target.

[j.griff]

That's cool. :) I prefer to leave my kids at home if I'm running errands, but if we stop for something quick while we're all out, then I'll leave them in the locked vehicle for a couple of minutes. It's all circumstantial for me though, when we are driving across the country this summer, I'll feel like we're more of a target in general and I won't be comfortable leaving the dc in a vehicle without myself or DH.

[Peek a Boo]

I leave my purse (or whatever equivalent I'm using) in the car all the time.:) That analogy just...doesn't make sense to me.

me neither. But then, i worry more about the kids than the "valuables" :-)
And like you, I often leave "valuables" sitting around. On the front seat. In plain site. In a locked car. While I run in for a minute. Or 5. Or ten.
Shoot, we left the whole side door of the van OPEN all last night :eek:
i was more worried about a cat scenting it than theft.

But seriously, don't assume that those of us who would leave our kids in the vehicle aren't considering a plethora of variableson a stop-by-stop basis before deciding to do so. :)


=============================
oh-- and about that prepay first rule:
our community just passed an ordinance that says gas stations may NOT turn on a pump to dispense gas unless they receive payment first. It was designed to reduce the crime rate and use our police officers more efficiently.

Every drive-off that is reported as a theft increases the crime rate and takes a cop off the street where he can take of REAL crimes. Like donut thieves ;) gas stations "have" to report drive-offs and back them up w/ police reports or else carry the financial burden of the drive off individually. I remember those days as a cashier.....I haven't spoken to a gas station manager yet that wasn't grateful for the new ordinance --it means that THEY aren't "the bad guy" lol. They can still turn on the pump w/o requiring prepayment [like for loyal customers], but if they report a drive-off, that means they broke the law and didn't receive payment first, so they are liable for a $500 fine :eek:. Cheaper to not report it.

[angela in ohio]

me neither. But then, i worry more about the kids than the "valuables" :-)


That's the point. It's sort of a tongue-in-cheek comment on people who wouldn't leave their purse for fear someone would steal it, but would leave a small child (I haven't seen anyone here say they leave small children, but I see it frequently, IRL.) It is an observation of what they value more.

[Peek a Boo]

That's the point. It's sort of a tongue-in-cheek comment on people who wouldn't leave their purse for fear someone would steal it, but would leave a small child (I haven't seen anyone here say they leave small children, but I see it frequently, IRL.) It is an observation of what they value more.

But here's the deal:
I --and a couple others, i think --HAVE said we have/would leave small children for 5 minutes to do something. i was pretty specific in my post.

If my purpose is to limit the known variables to increase my children's safety, then YES --i would place most "valuables" out of sight --under a coat, seat, newspaper, whatever. And i would still continue leaving a child in their carseat in a locked car nearby for 5 minutes while I ran in if i felt the situation was ok.

Would I think about hiding the stuff if the kids weren't also in the car? probably not. But w/ them there i take those extra precautions.

But the fact that i wouldn't leave my purse/wallet/whatever in "plain view" but still leave my kids in a locked car really holds little correct perspective on the situation.

Reducing variables does not prove we value one thing over another.
Quite the opposite :)

[Colleen]

It is an observation of what they value more.

But it isn't, imo. It's apples and oranges.

[HomeOnTheRanch]

My oldest is almost 14. I'll leave them all in the van with the doors locked for quick trips. For longer periods, like the grocery store or Wal Mart, dd5 and ds8 usually go in with me. We usually hit those places right after the library so the older 2 would rather stay in the van and read. I think I've only been doing that for the past year or so. Prior to that, I wouldn't leave the younger 2 unless I could actually see the vehicle.

[jellybean]

:iagree: My sister in law left my kids in the car while she ran in for pizza once (they were 4,3,2). She wasn't allowed to watch them again.


I also agree! 100% Kids should not be left alone in cars.

I also assume we are speaking of children under the age of 18yrs.

[Jenny in Atl]

Until recently, I felt comfortable leaving my 12 & 7 yr-olds in the car with a cell phone. It would only be to drop off bks or run into the bank. Now I'm not so sure. Sad, when as a seven year-old I walked about 1/2 to school alone.

[Cricket]

To me *none* of these is bad as letting young kids ride their bikes unattended for hours through the neighborhood.

When dd11 was 4 and in public school, there was a kid that was considered a "walker" by the school. He was allowed to walk home from Pre-K. (And he did not live across the street...it was a couple of blocks away.) THIS is worse than me walking 5-10 steps to drop off a movie at Blockbuster, and it was considered okay by the parents and school. ARGH!

These are good points. Why is it okay to let young kids to ride their bikes all over the neighborhood alone? At the park in our neighborhood, we have seen an 8 yo and her 6 yo sister there alone several times. I've left my kids in the car for a minute or two (dry cleaners, post office) but I would never let my 9 yo and 6 yo go to the park by themselves and play for an hour or so. I barely let them play in the front yard! Somehow I think the kids are safer in a locked car than left at the park alone. I worry more about them arguing while I'm gone than any danger coming to them. :)

My boys take tae kwon do and we are there 6 days a week. There have been quite a few times when my 4 yo has fallen asleep just before getting to the gym. If I can park right in front of the doors, I'll leave her in the car asleep. I'm literally 8 ft away from the car. The doors to the gym are open and I sit right in the doorway.

BTW, when my dad was a kid (1950s), his father who was a pastor drove once a month from New Orleans to somewhere in Mississippi to preach. On the way home they would always stop at a restaurant and my grandpa and grandma would go in and have a nice dinner. The three kids would be asleep in the car. They didn't think anything of it.

[~Tara~]

I leave my crew in the locked truck, within my sight, with Eldest in charge (11 next month) to do those little 5 minute things.
As others have said...only for those little zippy things. Always locked. Kids always stay buckled in the back, windows up. Vehicle always within my sight.

And Peek...I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I have left a sleeping one in the vehicle, parked in my own yard.

[Joanne]

To me *none* of these is bad as letting young kids ride their bikes unattended for hours through the neighborhood.

Define "young" as it relates to this statement.

[nestof3]

also assume we are speaking of children under the age of 18yrs.

Why 18? Because they are "legally" adults? I just don't let the gov't determine when I feel my kids are grownup enough to be in a car.

So, I guess your children will not have driver's licenses until they're 18? We know some families who have done this, but generally to save on insurance, or because it didn't seem necessary, not because they didn't feel they were safe in a car alone.

[Peek a Boo]

Define "young" as it relates to this statement.


i would apply "young" directly as the state [in our case, TX] would: a child under the age of 7 alone in a locked vehicle for over 5 minutes is illegal. In CA, that would be 13yo.

Why is it legal and/or OK to let that same "7 yo" out of your sight into a neighborhood w/o "proper supervision" of someone at least 14?? And in CA --I suppose many kids 13 and younger routinely ride bikes to and fro, w/o "proper supervision?

For all those who say "all kids, anyone under 18, never alone in a vehicle" do you let your kids do other things where their safety becomes questionable? At a park-- walking to the store-- riding their bikes out of site --leaving them at the library/other place w/o direct supervision.

I always find it fascinating that parents won't leave a kid alone in a locked car for 5-10 minutes but will send those same kids to camps w/ "but they've been background checked" strangers. Or send them off to let them ride their bikes out of sight. Or let them play at the playground by themselves. Or any number of "unsupervised" activities.

[kdeno]

wow~ that is a really long time away:tongue_smilie:

I just wanted to add that I would want an older child in the car also

[Excelsior! Academy]

Define "young" as it relates to this statement.


I agree. It does matter. In our neighborhood kiddos as young as six regulary ride bikes unsupervised.

[Mrs. H.]

To me *none* of these is bad as letting young kids ride their bikes unattended for hours through the neighborhood.

When I was a kid, I lived in a small neighborhood with only one way in and out. My brother and I were allowed to basically roam all day, either on our bikes or on foot, with the other kids in the neighborhood. I'm sure it was much the same with most of you.

Before we moved out to the country where we are now, we lived in a neighborhood that also housed a sexual predator (we check online). My sil lived one road over, and allowed her 12 year old daughter to freely ride her bike all over the neighborhood alone, from daylight to dark. My then 9 year old daughter was not allowed to leave the yard unless she was accompanied by an adult, and sil thought I was way too protective.

In my opinion, that 12 year old daughter was not prepared for what to do if the predator in our area tried to do something to her. She could have been abducted in an instant and it would have taken hours for my sil to realize she was gone instead of out riding.

My kids are allowed to play in our yard (5 acres) without me or dh, but there must be at least two of them together (one to run for help). They are allowed to ride their bikes in our driveway (looong driveway) and yard, but not on the road, because it is busy with traffic, and ends out onto an even busier highway.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by Joanne
Define "young" as it relates to this statement.


i would apply "young" directly as the state [in our case, TX] would: a child under the age of 7 alone in a locked vehicle for over 5 minutes is illegal. In CA, that would be 13yo.

Why is it legal and/or OK to let that same "7 yo" out of your site into a neighborhood w/o "proper supervision" of someone at least 14?? And in CA --I suppose many kids 13 and younger routinely ride bikes to and fro, w/o "proper supervision?

For all those who say "all kids, anyone under 18, never alone in a vehicle" do you let your kids do other things where their safety becomes questionable? At a park-- walking to the store-- riding their bikes out of site --leaving them at the library/other place w/o direct supervision.

I always find it fascinating that parents won't leave a kid alone in a locked car for 5-10 minutes but will send those same kids to camps w/ "but they've been background checked" strangers. Or send them off to let them ride their bikes out of sight. Or let them play at the playground by themselves. Or any number of "unsupervised" activities.

It's a very flawed comparison.

I mean, I "get" the perceived logic behind your wonderings and fascination. But allowing (especially group) intermittently supervised play in neighborhoods and trips to local businesses *is* inherently different than leaving a kid in a car.

I'll answer the question, with what will seem to be contradictory answers. I try to avoid leaving my kids in the car before school age. I never left them solo as babies, toddlers or preschoolers. And probably not early school age simply because I had 3 closely spaced kids. I probably would leave them to run into the post office when my oldest approached 10 - depending on circumstances.

That said, I don't believe it is "leaving them" to walk 7 steps to drop off a block buster item but I would consider it "leaving them" if I had to go into an establishment.

My kids started playing outside in both the neighborhoods I've lived in starting at school age and nearly always in groups. My oldest only recently began leaving "shouting voice range", with permission and specific rules. If he's going, the others can go with him. They usually also have age peers in the forms of my daycare kids and neighborhood kids as well.

We do camps and sleepovers (host and attend) and lock ins.

[Peek a Boo]

It's a very flawed comparison.

I mean, I "get" the perceived logic behind your wonderings and fascination. But allowing (especially group) intermittently supervised play in neighborhoods and trips to local businesses *is* inherently different than leaving a kid in a car.

I'll answer the question, with what will seem to be contradictory answers. I try to avoid leaving my kids in the car before school age. I never left them solo as babies, toddlers or preschoolers. And probably not early school age simply because I had 3 closely spaced kids. I probably would leave them to run into the post office when my oldest approached 10 - depending on circumstances.

That said, I don't believe it is "leaving them" to walk 7 steps to drop off a block buster item but I would consider it "leaving them" if I had to go into an establishment.

My kids started playing outside in both the neighborhoods I've lived in starting at school age and nearly always in groups. My oldest only recently began leaving "shouting voice range", with permission and specific rules. If he's going, the others can go with him. They usually also have age peers in the forms of my daycare kids and neighborhood kids as well.

We do camps and sleepovers (host and attend) and lock ins.

actually, it's NOT flawed --you are leaving kids unsupervised, period.
That's not perception, that's fact.

the only thing "inherently" different is that one situation has a kid locked in a car where you can see them. Another has them out and about where you can't. Usually for much longer than 5-10 minutes. well, that and "there's a law" about one :) that makes them *legally* different, but not necessarily "inherently" different.

I'd have to say there are plenty of times I see kids out solo, so the "nearly always in groups" is really irrelevant. Or I can use it w/ the "i only leave them locked in the car 'in a group'." Or we can limit the analogy to solo activities only. Pick your logic :-)

would we leave a kid that was constantly unbuckling and playing around the dash in a car alone? Not anymore than we'd let an irresponsible older kid leave the yard alone. Ditto w/ groups --some groups can handle scenarios better than other groups. {{and i posted my specifics at the beginning of the thread}}.

your statement "I'll answer the question, with what will seem to be contradictory answers" doesn't strike me as contradictory unless i missed a post: my question really only applies to those who WOULDN't leave a 10-13yo kid locked in a car but WOULD let them play unsupervised around the neighborhood. Your pattern seems reasonable to me --unsupervised for short amounts in a locked car progressing to unsupervised away from home for longer periods. i see a natural progression there.

i do think the age peers thing kinda intrigues me too, legally. Why would a similar-age peer be OK for one unsupervised activity [playing outside], but not for another [waiting in a locked car for ten minutes]?

That being said, it really does boil down to mother's instinct and the many variables in play for each situation. as i said previously --pick the statistics you wanna side with. we each have our own biases, lol.