I have lots of R&S LA questions...please help me sort this out!

[Johanna]

Ok. so my dd with be in 4th next year. This year (3rd)we have sorta done CM approach to writing (narrations, copywork, dictation) and are dabbling through the book by EPS "Just Write 1". And just for some background info.....anytime i mention the word "write" she runs away screaming!
Anyways, I am thinking that next year i want to bring in some more formal writing instruction in. I did not realize that R&S had so much writing instruction! So, why do so many moms who use R&S also do a seperate Writing curric:confused:?? Also, will doing R&S almost assure me and my dd tears?? I notice alot of people start out on that route and get burned out....i dont want to even bother starting something that i dont intend to keep doing.
I am also so confused by what type of LA writing to get. If i had dont WT1 and stuck with GWG....she would have never known how to do a report, letter, story, poem...etc...SO, that option was out after realizing that!
I want her to know the basics....but i dont want to burn her out!:crying:
(side note: dont you just love these new smileys)
Ok, back to business....so, i am really confused as to how to get in the necessary writing instruction (for her age) and to not be overwhelmed with all kinds of supplements for LA.
Is there anyone who just does R&S for LA (writing and grammar) and sticks it out and feels its comprehensive.
Will R&S be useless for us because we will end up dropping it anyways....will it equal meltdowns???? *** I know that is a hard question for you to answer...but I would love to know your experiences***

[Carol in Cal.]

So the writing assignments are not really up to the level at which I want her to be learning. However, she still does them. I do not count them as grammar, though. I count them as writing. So, for instance, when she runs across a writing lesson in RS5, she does it AND the next grammar lesson. And I count the writing lesson as writing and the grammar lesson as grammar.

I think that since we are doing RS a year behind, she should be able to do 5 full grammar lessons every week.

When she was younger, I had her do grammar and copywork and some other writing or composing most days. However, she had a very hard time with RS 3 and so we did less grammar than most at first. Now she is catching up significantly, and has made whatever developmental leap she needed to be able to make sense out of grammar, so flying through RS 5 is working well for her.

I don't plan to 'catch up' to grade level, but will probably gain a half year over the next 3 years. RS is more grammar than most kids need, really. But since DD has a talent for writing, I want her to know grammar better than most kids do.

We use elements of Writing Strands, Writers' Jungle, and unit study type subject area writing as well as RS. So why do I still use RS at all? Well, it is thorough, incremental, and clear. It gives us both a frame of reference for discussing her subject area writing. (Writing Strands helps with this, too.) It is easy, so it's a good thing to do as sort of a break from more difficult writing assignments.

Also, if you skip all the writing in RS, your child can't answer all of the review questions in the daily grammar assignments. This leads to unfortunate negotiations and stalling ('I thought that was a WRITING question, so I skipped it!' 'No, it's a grammar question. You should have done it.' 'That is ridiculous!' 'Please go do it, now.' 'I already FINISHED my grammar!' 'Please go do this question, now.' 'I want to be DONE!' 'I have already told you what you need to do. Now go do it.' 'Could I do it tomorrow? I am SO tired.' 'As soon as you finish this grammar question you can go to bed.' etc. etc.) Believe me, you may not want to go there!

[Johanna]

RS is more grammar than most kids need, really.

Yeah, that is my hesitation with choosing R&S....do I really want to overload her with all that GRAMMAR!!:glare:
I am thinking no.
I feel left with no options or maybe too many options:001_huh:....Sometimes I wish there was someone just telling me what I HAD to do with her....so i can be relieved of the guess work!
Sorry for the rant...i will figure it out, i am sure.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that if children do maybe RS 5 and 6, they might have all the actual grammar that they need.

If you have a child who is better at learning incrementally, then starting with RS3 or RS4 builds very gently but thoroughly.

So in my case, I'm going to revisit the question of 'how far to go' with RS after RS6. I may not continue at that point, but after having completely that year successfully, DD will already know more grammar than most kids. I would not shortchange it on the low end, though. It is so much easier to memorize things when you're young, so getting the lists of the 8 parts of speech, and the helping verbs, and the noun jobs at 9 or 10 will really help later on.

[Johanna]

I see your point..

[Beth in Central TX]

I use R&S and CW because the writing in R&S is a modern approach while CW uses the classical Greek progymnasmata (preliminary rhetorical exercises). It really depends on your goals. R&S is a fine grammar and writing program all by itself.

The R&S grammar is written for a classroom setting, so there are a lot of oral questions and a lot of written questions for each lesson. We are doing R&S grammar 5 & 6 this year. I do all of the work in the book orally for each son. I do purchase the worksheets and tests too. If the lesson has a worksheet, then they do that along with their daily oral lesson; not every lesson has a worksheet though.

[Mom2legomaniacs]

My ds is 9 and in 4th. He hates to write! Last year we did R&S 3. I made the mistake of fighting it out with him to have him write his lessons. Now, we do most of them orally (just as Beth mentioned). It goes a lot faster and with very little struggle!

I do not (at this point) use a separate writing program. I will buy IEW because I need that kind of instruction to teach my children effectively (I feel).

When we come to a writing assignment in R&S, we usually spread it out over several days depending on the nature of the assignment. This also helps a great deal with his not rebelling.

I have to say that because of R&S, he is doing very well in grammar and writing. Now, his writing is not perfect, but for him, he is moving along at a nice pace for him.

Now, when I have him write out some of the grammar assignments, I get very little complaining given we do most of them orally.

hth!

[Sue G in PA]

It drove my ds9 to tears after the first week and so we switched to GWG and he is thrilled with grammar now. There isn't any writing in GWG so we use Wordsmith Apprentice. He LOVES the newspaper reporter type theme that runs through it. That's just him. My dd11 (6th grade) uses R&S5 with no problem. She's just now getting a bit "stuck" on diagramming so we're taking it slow. As for the writing in R&S I skip a lot of it. It depends on the assignment. The outlining assignments were good. Some of the report writing topics were a bit "broad" so we skipped them. We also use IEW's Ancient History Based Writing Lessons for her and it's working well. I just think there is more "rhyme and reason" to the assignments than R&S's, KWIM? Some people just skip the writing altogether and use something a bit more "user friendly". I have to keep in mind that each dc is different and so one writing program won't be a good "fit" for every dc. Keep in mind, too, that SWB doesn't recommend ANY original writing until 5th grade. So, reports, poetry, short stories, etc. aren't completely necessary at this point.
You could use SWB's Writing With Ease for next year (it goes up to 4th grade) along with her FLL 4 or R&S or GWG or any solid grammar program really! I know it's a lot to think about. I'm right there with you. SWB makes me feel better than my dc don't do a bunch of original writing except letters to pen pals, stories for our family newspaper (which we just started as a way to get the dc to have fun with writing). Also, is your dd more of a "workbook" type kid (the format of GWG) where you fill in the blank instead of copying it on notebook paper or will she do okay with a text approach (like R&S)? JUst some things to think about. HTH

[Kelli in TN]

I have used R&S from 2nd through 9th grade. I do not see this burn out in my family.

One thing that is important to realize is that you have to make the curriculum work for you, not the other way around. In the case of R&S that might mean doing a great deal of it orally, diagramming at the whiteboard, etc.

It is a wonderful, solid foundation.

The only thing I do not recommend is the 9th grade book. We got halfway through it and then I sold it. We go through 8th grade and then do something else for high school.

As for why I use a second writing curriculum? For the same reason I use 2 math programs. And 2 history programs. I have issues. Some people have problems with alcohol. Some people have problems with drugs. Me? I have a curriculum problem. Can someone please help me?

[Johanna]

I totally forgot that R&S 4 was text. I think that may drive dd crazy. She and I like the WB form of grammar instruction (been spoiled by GWG):tongue_smilie:
One of you said that SWB doesnt suggest any original writing till 5th?? Hmmmm....that is sorta relieving.:001_smile:
Oh why cant she have her new writing workbooks for grade 4 WWE ???????:glare:
I really need hand holding....can you tell? I love the CM way but, as dd gets older I am feeling more insecure with how to proceed with writing KWIM?

[BizyPenguin]

We use CLE for lang arts and Bob Jones English (the writing portion only) for writing. If you go to my blog and click "Curriculum Reviews" you will find some information about R&S English and I discuss BJ writing in my BJ English review. It can really be hard deciding what to use. Perhaps some of my comparisons or reviews will help.

[Christine]

As for why I use a second writing curriculum? For the same reason I use 2 math programs. And 2 history programs. I have issues. Some people have problems with alcohol. Some people have problems with drugs. Me? I have a curriculum problem. Can someone please help me?

:p Sorry, can't help you, but can join the "club". Curriculum annonymous?

RS is more grammar than most kids need, really.

We use R & S specifically because it "has more grammar than most kids need". . .

My reasoning behind it though, is that "most kids NEED more grammar".

However, from my experience. . .knowing more grammar will not necessarily make you a better writer, and writing "well" does not mean you will write grammatically correct.

I think I write "well", but my grammar stinks. My children (boys), on the other hand, have great grammar and can ensure they write correct sentences, etc. but write "horribly" (blah, blah, blah, blah, BLAH!).

(We are using IEW to try and correct that, but just started. . .)

There are a lot of written exercises in R&S, but not necessarily of lot of "writing" (i.e. compositions) (Many of the items marked as "compositions" in the book are really just "editing". Looking back over my older children's "school", I've determine some changes to be made for my younger children, and I will be requiring more writing from them (not exercises, but compositions).

As many have said, you can do the exercises orally or together on a white board. I, in fact, find it very beneficial to do so, especially in the beginning.

There's a balance to be found. . .If I were to ever strike upon it, I would let you know; yet, I suspect the balance is different for each family.

[Mrs. H.]

We are currently in R&S Grammar 3 & 5. I usually start with 3, and then go from there. My dc go over the lesson with me, and then I make the assignment. We do the oral exercises if I think they would be helpful, but often not. If the assignment is very long, I either break it up (do all odd or even numbers, not both), or we take two days to do it, if the child seems to need every example. My dc do all the writing exercises, and we consider it an excellent writing curriculum, so we don't use anything else.

I don't know how long we will continue doing formal grammar. I know R&S goes to 8th grade, so we'll probably do the whole program.

[Johanna]

it helps to hear all these perspectives!:iagree:

[Colleen in NS]

I totally forgot that R&S 4 was text. I think that may drive dd crazy. She and I like the WB form of grammar instruction (been spoiled by GWG):tongue_smilie:
One of you said that SWB doesnt suggest any original writing till 5th?? Hmmmm....that is sorta relieving.:001_smile:
Oh why cant she have her new writing workbooks for grade 4 WWE ???????:glare:
I really need hand holding....can you tell? I love the CM way but, as dd gets older I am feeling more insecure with how to proceed with writing KWIM?

Could you use R&S for grammar, the way Kelli in TN suggested (orally, whiteboard, etc.), and use the R&S writing lessons? I'd also highly recommend you listen to SWB's Writing Without Fear CD, if you need handholding (I needed handholding - I listened to that CD so many times and took many, many notes, until the bigger picture started taking shape in my mind). This, for me, helped calm the "how to teach writing" fear, until SWB hopefully comes out with the logic and rhetoric stage books in her writing series.