Test for end 8th grade from 1895 (x-post)

[Joan in Geneva]

Interesting to see some of the questions...clearly more farming related but definitely includes word problems...

Scroll down on this page (http://systemath.com/index.php/2008010521/How-It-Works/The-Decline-of-Math.html) to see the link.

[Greensa]

OK, this is disturbing. I'm a product of public schools in the 1960s and '70s, and to think that my great-aunt (who would have been the right age to take this test) learned so much more while she was in school is, well, disturbing! Not the least is that I had never encountered the word "Orthography" before. No wonder my grandmother & great-aunts seemed so smart!
Sara

[Joan in Geneva]

I was pointed to the Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp) article by Jane in NC and I quite agree with it. I had actually meant to show that people back then were more educated than we might sometimes think. But I now realize that having to go through a page that talks about the decline of math would then be misleading if I don't comment on it. My apologies for promoting misconceptions.

Joan

[Jane in NC]

The thing that remains interesting in all of this is how knowledge is a dynamic thing. People will often comment that "math has not changed" but it has! Granted, many of the "new" ideas in 19th Century mathematics, things like Non-Euclidean Geometry or Topology are not even seen by the average person today, but these "modern" ideas dramatically shaped the discipline of mathematics for those who study it today. Or consider how DNA sequencing has changed biology.

Having said that, I remain drawn to Classical Education for its time tested value. Since Cicero was admired by our Founding Fathers, I ask myself and my son how Cicero affected the young Republic. But that does not mean that we stop our quest for knowledge with Cicero, Montesquieu and Locke. We cannot deny that the Russian Revolution happened and that Hegel, Marx and Engels deserve our attention.

This is why I don't place too much stock in these old tests. But it remains interesting to me to see what people in other times and places think is important. These windows in the past or other cultures can be quite interesting in themselves.

Jane

[Nan in Mass]

Snopes or no snopes (I haven't had a chance to look at the article yet), this was still fun to look at. Even if it isn't an authentic test, I've seen enough old textbooks to know that it looks similar to them. I'm not sure I want my children learning so much by rote. The math, if one knew the equivalencies and had been taught the financial vocabulary, is fairly simple - it is multi-step arithmetic problems and percentages. Most 8th graders can do them. I don't really care if my children know the grammar because my children happened to be born into a family that speaks standard written English rather than a regional dialect. They don't need to know the grammar; their ears tell them whether they are speaking correctly or not (well, mostly grin). Spelling has never been terribly important to me, and thankfully the modern child has spellcheck. My children couldn't answer those particular history problems because they haven't studied those periods much, but they could certainly answer questions like that about other periods in history. And after TWTM logic stage science, they could answer some of the geography questions. We are working on the others. The geography is something I do value and wish my children knew. All in all, this is like many other standardized tests - something my children probably are not going to be able to do because they haven't studied the areas of knowledge covered by the test.

For comparison, you can go look at the MCAS exam given to 8th graders in Massachusetts http://www.doe.mass.edu/mcas/2009/release/g8all.pdf

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Chaos theory comes to mind.

[Joan in Geneva]

Chaos theory comes to mind.

Did I miss something or was this intended for the MCAS exam? I just had a laugh thinking it was. (Which is partly because scrolling through things always scrambles them a bit in my mind adding to any potential chaos).

One other comment about 1985 is that I'm presuming there were mostly one room schoolhouses which were like some modern home"schools" for some of the larger families, but the teachers didn't have access to nearly the type of materials that we have today in home education. (Though they didn't have to compete with TV sound-bite conditioned brains that a typical public school teacher has to teach to either).

Jane, it is interesting to see the certainty with which people held on to their ideas in time past which should help us be humble today. It seems we're only scratching the surface of genetic info for example. For me Classical Ed helps keep the larger picture in mind - something I was completely lacking in high school. Then I thought the past was useless and had "zero" interest in history (now I can't get enough). No, we can't stop at an earlier spot in time because that is not the big picture either.

We can get upset about the conductor SMS'g who caused a terrible crash. But how long did it take humanity to learn to put seat belts in cars? Learning to deal with our ever-changing technology in a responsible way is a continual challenge. Just as we have to learn not to build in flood plains and on and on. Sometimes it seems to take us (humans) forever to learn a lesson or relearn a lesson. Sometimes it seems we just don't learn either - like how to love an unlovely "neighbor". I'm really rambling here - it's getting late and I got up early. I meant to talk about the big picture of time...but have run out of "free" time...