Not sure what I'm looking for.....

[rowan25]

My daughter is 5 and very verbally advanced. She reads on approx. 3rd grade level consistently, though her vocabulary is much higher than that. I decided to school her to a 1st grade level because that is where the majority of her skills are.

We're doing MUS Alpha and it's good for her. But we're having trouble with reading and grammar. I was trying FLL, but both of us are soooooooooooo bored. And I can't find a reading program because of the disparity between her age and her ability.

So I'm mainly looking for suggestions for grammar programs and reading programs. I tried looking at Royal Fireworks Press' webpage, but I don't find it user-friendly for me and I'm overwhelmed by everything there.

Can someone please give me some suggestions and steer me in the right direction? It can't be any worse than where we are now!! :D

rowan

[nmoira]

Can someone please give me some suggestions and steer me in the right direction? It can't be any worse than where we are now!! :DI'd wait until her writing skills are strong enough to do one year of Growing With Grammar -- maybe 3rd grade -- to pick up basic mechanics. GWG is ideal for this purpose because it's approach is no-nonsense and straightforward, with little busywork. In the meantime I'd focus on copy work, memory work, and oral narration.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

It's not a ready-to-use program but how about teaching grammar Montessori-style? It is very hands-on and lots of fun. I would be doing this more consistently with my dd but I have two other littles to care for and it is not a priority for us yet. If you are interested, here are some places to look for more information:
Teaching Montessori in the Home: The School Years
www.montessoriforeveryone.com (check out the blog for articles about grammar as well as the PDF's available for sale)

[HeidiD]

It's a set of 10 books, each dealing with a different part of speech and a teacher's guide with little projects to put together for reinforcement - intended for grade 3 and up. The stories are a bit corny, although my 6 yo likes them. :)

http://shop.scholastic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=28921&langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10004

[JennW in SoCal]

I think you and your dd would be best off by heading to the library on a regular basis to get a stack of books that catch her interest. A good children's librarian can help you find chapter books that fit her reading level and read alouds that you both would enjoy. Her listening level is probably even higher than her reading level, so there are many books to choose from! I'd also get picture books and grown up books on any science or nature or history topic that catches her fancy. The key is to always engage her in talking about what she reads and what you are reading aloud. Don't just ask for her opinion, talk about what you like and dislike, pretend like you are struggling to remember the plot and have her remind you of what happened when and where.

My kids devoured Harry Potter and Greek Mythology at this age. Mrs. PiggleWiggle, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH, Freddy the Pig, all the books by Dick King Smith and E. Nesbitt -- all of these are great for an advanced 5 year old! Also anything by Beverly Cleary and Lynn Reid Banks. I get warm and fuzzy just thinking about all the hours we spent reading!

Grammar at this age can be as simple as playing Mad Libs. My younger son also enjoyed puzzle pieces you could connect into sentences, something produced by DK and usually available at B&N or Borders. Each word type was a different color and you could only fit them together in proper order, but the sentences were still often silly and entertaining.

You can pick up a hand writing work book to work on penmenship, and encourage her to copy favorite parts of books. Or you can assign copy work.

No matter how advanced she is, she is still 5 and will learn so much just through play and exploration. You really don't need a reading "program" (I never used one and am honestly not sure what they are!) nor a grammar curriculum at this point. Really. 1st grade can consist of oral discussions and lots of child led exploring of the world.

[rowan25]

I understand what everyone is saying, however that just isn't going to work for us. I wanted to take it easy and slowly. I wanted to play games and still have fond dreams of doing so. However, my dd is a Type A, want it all now sort of kid. I haven't been pushing her; I've been holding her back.

We read all the time and she is currently devouring several different chapter book series at once. I suppose that I'm not as concerned about reading as I am about grammar.

Thanks for your responses so far and keep them coming. I'd love to have several different things to look through when planning for next year.

[Linda in TX]

I'm not sure why you want to do grammar at this age, or maybe she wants to. But my daughter is loving Winston Grammar. It comes with cards that are colored according to the part of speech and I write the sentences on the white board and she does them orally. The program does come with a workbook that you can mark if you want. (I used that with an older daughter so I am doing it orally only.) Another thing my daughter is loving is classifying sentences using the Shurley Method. She asks for it every day. I switch between Winston and Shurley since I only have the teacher's manuals left over from when my older ones did grammar.

I would not worry too much about writing anything right now. We do both of these on the white board only.

Linda

[RanchGirl]

if she is asking to do grammar, we had fun with the Language Smarts workbooks by Critical Thinking Co during 1st grade. If she's not asking to do it, I would put it off for now and focus on reading everything you can get your hands on.

[EKS]

My son was reading on a 3rd grade level at age 5 also. I didn't do formal grammar with my son when he was 5 but at 6 we did GWG 3 and it was a perfect fit. As for reading, at 5 I just had my son read aloud to me every day and then he did free reading too. At age 6 we went through REWARDS Intermediate just to reinforce how to sound out long words. He absolutely loved it.

[ChristineMM]

Hi, I don't understand what you mean by "a reading program". If she is already reading at grade 3 level what do you want out of a reading program? Do you mean reading comprehension?

After teaching my two kids to read, when done with the phonics program they supposedly were at grade 2 reading level. I didn't do worksheets to review phonics. I had them read aloud to me to make sure they were pronouncing words correctly. Later they morphed to silent reading. Because my two were not reading books on their own for fun, I mandated reading as a HS assignment. Younger son age 4 was reading 20 minutes a day (he had started to teach himself to read at 3 and flew through alpha phonics at age 4). Older son finished AP in grade 1 and then was reading 20 minutes a day after that. I raised up the minutes as they got older. And as they got older they were also reading silently as part of history and science lessons in addition to fiction.

I assume you are using FLL 1/2. We spent on average 5 minutes per lesson. And we skipped forward when something was mastered & I didn't kill with too much drill and repetition. Have you tried that, speeding it up, skipping over?

There is also English for the Thoughtful Child.

Or there is always the advice to do no grammar at age 5! Why the rush?

If you want reading comprehension I would personally lean toward discussion about books being read. Such as do FIAR with her reading and discuss things in depth. Make sure she really knows all the vocabulary. See if she can "inference" and predict.

I recommend also 7 Keys to Comprehension for teaching basics of how to approach reading comprehension as viewed through the American public schools.

But at that age I had my kids do narration. for reading comp a la Charlotte Mason method. Later we did some workbook reading comprehension and I found faults with the programs which I'll not get into now. Based on that I don't recommend workbook based reading comp programs, and especially not for a 5 YO just my two cents.

Enjoy your young daughter!

[Renai]

My daughter is 5 and very verbally advanced. She reads on approx. 3rd grade level consistently, though her vocabulary is much higher than that. I decided to school her to a 1st grade level because that is where the majority of her skills are. ...

Can someone please give me some suggestions and steer me in the right direction? It can't be any worse than where we are now!! :D

rowan

Have you looked at Sonlight's reading? Depending on where she's at, you could start her at 2 regular, intermediate, or advanced. Most of the books can be found at the library, and there are comprehension questions in their guides (cost around $5). I wouldn't worry about grammar, even though she is advanced in reading. Many curricula I know of start grammar study in 2nd grade, but I'm doing classical ed. You can do it Charlotte Mason style though, like with Primary Language Lessons (2nd/3rd), or the similar Queen's language books (they have workbooks, whereas PLL does not).

[nmoira]

I understand what everyone is saying, however that just isn't going to work for us. I wanted to take it easy and slowly. I wanted to play games and still have fond dreams of doing so. However, my dd is a Type A, want it all now sort of kid. I haven't been pushing her; I've been holding her back. Which approach isn't going to work for you? I'm wondering because there were a number of suggestions. Working at a higher level doesn't necessarily mean working across the board at a certain grade level: You can read advanced books, do longer and more complicated memory work, expand narrations into longer discussions, and none of this would hold her back.

We read all the time and she is currently devouring several different chapter book series at once. I suppose that I'm not as concerned about reading as I am about grammar. But why are you concerned about grammar? For most of us (linguists of course, excepted), grammar is a finite study, and the basics are easy for a well read child to pick up. If you really must use a program now, I'd recommend the first level of Michael Clay Thompson's materials at Royal Fireworks Press: Grammar Island, Sentence Island, Practice Island, and perhaps Music of the Hemispheres (poetry). Practice Island can be done orally. These are highly engaging and involve a minimum amount of writing.

[ElizabethB]

Maybe some syllable divided books (http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllabledividedb.html)?

[Irene Lynn]

I am not sure what you are looking for, but I can tell you what I enjoyed using. To start learning grammar, I did not use a program, but I used things like The Word Detective from Usborne books. That introduced several parts of speech in a fun way. Dd enjoyed looking at the book and discussing it together. I also used, horror of horrors, Mad Libs. I think I first bought one for a long car ride. This could also be done with a current book she is reading. Just take a passage and blank out words, then ask her for a replacement noun, verb, adjective, adverb, etc. , then read the ammended passage to her. My dd would get such a kick out of things like that and we would end up covering so many more parts of speech in one sitting, than if she were doing a workbook. My dd would also wear out, if she had much to write, so I kept things more verbal in the early years.

Another resource that we liked was the handbook from Hands-On English. It has all the basics you would need through 6th grade level or higher. It is set up for the child to use and is very easy to understand. Dd liked it, because she could go there to answer some of her own questions. It is not a text book, but is a resource with all the rules set up a very readable and understandable way. It has everything from capitalization and punctuation, to parts of speech and usage and some vocabulary words and commonly mispelled words, to all the current rules for bibliographies and more. I liked the way the other materials in this program are also set up, but it has minimal workbook pages.

If your dd is a workbook person, then I don't have any great ideas. Personally, I always like purchasing things that covered several grades worth of material. When I got a specific grade, dd often outgrew it before she was even done.

[Mommy22alyns]

Is the problem with FLL that it moves too slowly? We had to combine and accelerate the lessons up to a certain point and we covered 1 and 2 in a long school year.

What specifically are you looking for in grammar? What is your concern? And I'd also ask what you're looking for as far as reading goes - it's hard to let go of your 5 year old being in a reading program, but if she's reading that well I don't know how much she'd get out of a traditional program anyway.

[zaichiki]

We've used whatever grammar/mechanics/usage was already contained in Sonlight's Language Arts plus a smattering of other "fun" stuff: the kids really enjoy Mad Libs and occasionally a little Schoolhouse Rock (Grammar Rock). Emma Serl's Intermediate Language Lessons was VERY gentle. I think it's intended for 4/5th grade use, but I used it with ds here and there when he was 7. He liked the variety in the lessons (not the same thing day after day).

Now that ds(10) is in school for the first time, his 6th grade English class does include grammar and diagramming (along with writing and a vocabulary curriculum). They use a Houghton Mifflin text.

[HeatherInWI]

My two liked Rod & Staff Grammar when they were little, and when they were a bit older, they liked Editor in Chief. Also, once they knew how to read, I pretty much just let them read. I provided them with lots of good books, and I read aloud to them to, but once they knew all of the rules of reading, I didn't figure we needed to spend time on specific instruction in that area.

[rowan25]

A couple of people have asked me if I can be more specific. I will try......but not tonight! :lol: We've had a long day--homeschool group day and park day--and I'm exhausted. Plus I want to think some more about some of the things that others have brought up and asked.

One thing that I'm not sure if I made clear in my original post was that I've tried the "play games, all sorts" road with her. It hasn't worked. She has asked for "real" school. :tongue_smilie: Some games, some of the time seem to be ok with her, but she seems to want some book learning and then to be free to play on her own. So I've been trying to follow that for her. She's not very workbook-y, though she is enjoyed two different 1st grade reading comprehension books--one on level from a teacher store and the other targeted to gifted readers from Barnes and Noble.

Please no one get the impression that I am pushing her into something that she either isn't ready for or doesn't want to do. I am following her interests and needs at the time. Of course, they keep changing!! Which is what has thrown me into this mess in the first place! :lol:

Yes, FLL is waaaaay too slow and waaaay too repetitive. Also she just plain finds it boring. She wants something "fun." Of course her definition of fun changes hourly! :D

OK, I'm tired and I'm rambling. I'll think on this some more and come back later.

Thank you all for being patient with me!! :001_smile:

[silvermine]

I like FLL, but I skip things when they are just the same thing over and over. I think we did pronouns in a day or two (and not even very long on those two days), instead of letting it drag on and on and on and on...

If yours already knows something, do a quick 5 second review and just move on. :) We also do a lot of MadLibs around here.

[rowan25]

Ok, I've done some mulling and here's what I've come up with.

As for reading, I'm looking for something dealing more with reading skills==inference, comprehension, that sort of stuff==but most of what I've found isn't necessarily appropriate for a 5 year old's emotional maturity.

As for grammar, I'm looking for something fun and light-hearted to just hit basics. I love the idea of Mad Libs. I need to find some of those. And she does seem to like the grammar storybooks, like the Greedy Apostrophe. Maybe that's more the way to go.

Thanks for your help, everyone.

[Laura Corin]

I didn't use any kind of reading programme at that age, just reading great books and (quite intermittent) gentle discussion. I have some lists (http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/AJ9YYU9EDTNHJ) for advanced readers here - scroll down for the earlier ones.

I only introduce grammar slowly and lightly, so I suspect that your philosophy on that is different. I second the idea of Mad Libs.

Laura

[CherylG]

I understand what everyone is saying, however that just isn't going to work for us. I wanted to take it easy and slowly. I wanted to play games and still have fond dreams of doing so. However, my dd is a Type A, want it all now sort of kid. I haven't been pushing her; I've been holding her back.

We read all the time and she is currently devouring several different chapter book series at once. I suppose that I'm not as concerned about reading as I am about grammar.

Thanks for your responses so far and keep them coming. I'd love to have several different things to look through when planning for next year.

Does she keep track of her work schedule herself? I use Excel and spreadsheet my daughter's books over the weeks of school or when she was littler over the week.

She would write in the date and check off what she did. For her, it was finishing something and seeing it on paper that mattered and calmed her down a bit so that she didn't have to keep forging ahead. Thank God for hard workers though!! I even spread sheeted P.E. with jump rope, bike riding, etc.
I third the idea of Mad Libs. They are great fun for all.

[Quad Shot Academy]

This (http://rainbowresource.com/search.php?sid=1252442482-268203) series might work as it is multiple choice. This (http://rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1252442482-268203&subject=6&category=995) series is another one of my favorites and all the stories are fine for a 5 yo. Another idea would be the Progeny Press study guides.

For grammar we have done lots of fun library reading by Brian Cleary (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary) and Ruth Heller (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary).

HTH!

Edited to Add:
If you are looking for more tradtional grammar, you could check out the Spectrum Language Arts workbooks. Also, I continue with the TATRAS (http://www.verticalphonics.com/) phonics program. It has word lists that go up to about 6th grade.

[Blessedfamily]

This (http://rainbowresource.com/search.php?sid=1252442482-268203) series might work as it is multiple choice. This (http://rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1252442482-268203&subject=6&category=995) series is another one of my favorites and all the stories are fine for a 5 yo. Another idea would be the Progeny Press study guides.

For grammar we have done lots of fun library reading by Brian Cleary (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary) and Ruth Heller (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary).

.....

Which of these did you find gave better instruction- the Brian Cleary or the Ruth Heller? It seems like the reviews favor the Ruth Heller? They look enjoyable.

[Mommy22alyns]

For grammar we have done lots of fun library reading by Brian Cleary (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary) and Ruth Heller (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary).



Oh yes, I forgot about the Cleary books! We found all of them in our library and the girls enjoyed them. I'll have to check for the Ruth Heller books.

[Kelly in IL]

We have loved Sonlight for this same situation. Of course we always read books in addition to the ones they list, but it is a great "guideline" of readers and read-alouds and you can pick the level for your child's needs.
Kelly

[Quad Shot Academy]

Which of these did you find gave better instruction- the Brian Cleary or the Ruth Heller? It seems like the reviews favor the Ruth Heller? They look enjoyable.

I personally like the Brian Cleary better, but they are both so similar, that it is hard to say. Brian Cleary is more funny where Ruth Heller is more artistic. The inside views at Amazon are very representative. Basically the books continue through with the same pattern of highlighting the particular part of speech. Sorry, I can't be of more help!

[Laurel]

Which of these did you find gave better instruction- the Brian Cleary or the Ruth Heller? It seems like the reviews favor the Ruth Heller? They look enjoyable.

I love the Cleary books. They are so funny. The Heller books are great too, but if I had to choose, it would be the Cleary books. (Luckily I don't have to choose, as our library has both.)

[rowan25]

This (http://rainbowresource.com/search.php?sid=1252442482-268203) series might work as it is multiple choice. This (http://rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1252442482-268203&subject=6&category=995) series is another one of my favorites and all the stories are fine for a 5 yo. Another idea would be the Progeny Press study guides.

For grammar we have done lots of fun library reading by Brian Cleary (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary) and Ruth Heller (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Brian%20P.%20Cleary).

HTH!

Edited to Add:
If you are looking for more tradtional grammar, you could check out the Spectrum Language Arts workbooks. Also, I continue with the TATRAS (http://www.verticalphonics.com/) phonics program. It has word lists that go up to about 6th grade.
Thanks, those look great! And I found most all of them at our library!! Happy day!!

[Blessedfamily]

I personally like the Brian Cleary better, but they are both so similar, that it is hard to say. Brian Cleary is more funny where Ruth Heller is more artistic. The inside views at Amazon are very representative. Basically the books continue through with the same pattern of highlighting the particular part of speech. Sorry, I can't be of more help!

I love the Cleary books. They are so funny. The Heller books are great too, but if I had to choose, it would be the Cleary books. (Luckily I don't have to choose, as our library has both.)

OK. Between my library and the one were DH works, we reserved both the Cleary and the Heller books. I like what I see so far very much. To me, they would definately work for a fun introduction to grammar.

I'm going to buy the titles that I like best because my dd would enjoy them immensely for review, and I'll use them with dd#2.