What is an appropriate consequence for this 8 yo boy?

[Scarlett]

He lets our dog off her leash, she digs out and runs all over the neighborhood until she is good and ready to come home. The issues are 1)disobedience 2) He thinks he knows more than I do. The dog getting out is VERY annoying to me, but the disobedience issue is critical to me.

I remember when my nephew was this age, my SIL, a single mom, took the handle off a spiget outside because nephew would not keep from turning the water on and leaving it on. I thought, 'that is ridiculous that she can't make that boy obey.' :o Boy oh boy am I remembering those words.

So what would you do?

[Amy in Orlando]

I wouldn't let him walk the dog.

[Chris in VA]

Maybe make him take the dog to obedience class? You go, too, so he doesn't feel he knows more than you about that, too! lol
Really, I think this might be a good, logical consequence. Maybe you could add that he must write apology letters about the dog's behaviour to those whose yards the dog ruined.

[Scarlett]

He isn't walking the dog, she is in the large back yard we have, which is fenced, but she digs out if let off a 25 foot leash we put her on whenshe is out side.

Oh obedience class would thrill ds!

He has to fill up the hole she dug. I am also taking away tv and computer for tonight (which he loves). But I think I need more. Sentences? I will obey my mother even if I think I know more than her. ?? I've not done that in several years...but I need something that will stick with him.

[Adrianne]

If so, some serious obedience training and education is in order. We have taken time out from our lives to focus on obedience. Usually we talk a lot about how obedience to parents = obedience to God.

Otherwise, punishment and loss of privledges does occur. Television and video games are usually the first to go.

[Danestress]

I'm not sure I understand ..... she dug out? So she has to be leashed even within the fence?

I guess the first thing is to find a way to secure the dog within the yard - which I know can be easier said than done.

And I would go to the library and get a good book on dog training (I like Ian Durham's "How to Teach a New Dog Old Tricks. That might be Durban? Durham?) I think it's critical to work with the dog on coming when called - for the dog's own safety. I do not have 100% success with this with my own dog, so no judgment. It's hard. But work on it really hard, and then have a fall back plan, which here is to say "sit" and use a hand signal. I would say I have almost 100% success with that at this point. My dog is 7 months now. I would say that "dog training" was right up there with "math" and "Latin" for a while there. Make time for it in your day.

Some breeds, I'm told, simply can not be let off leash because they are notorious wanderers. If I had a dog like this, I guess the first order of business would be to exercise that dog everyday until she is totally exhausted. Again, easier said than done, I know.

Anyway, then I would tell my son the way I see it. "It seems to me that you substituted your judgment for mine, and I don't like that. My judgment is, in fact, superior to yours, as was illustrated today when you did this." I'd go on to talk about disobedience and also about what is fair to the dog and what could have happened.

And I guess the punishment would be that I really don't trust him with the dog.

[Joanne]

He lets our dog off her leash, she digs out and runs all over the neighborhood until she is good and ready to come home. The issues are 1)disobedience 2) He thinks he knows more than I do. The dog getting out is VERY annoying to me, but the disobedience issue is critical to me.

I'm in favor of related, reasonable and respectful consequences. In this case, the 8 year old is young enough to not get the irritation and danger but old enough to have a dose of reality.

I'd bring him to a shelter and possibly have staff tell him what happens to unleashed dogs that are found, not claimed or hit by vehicles. And/or maybe a vet.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If he can't be trusted to be in the yard with the dog without unleashing her, I wouldn't let him be outside unless you are there with him to watch him.

[JFS in IL]

go door to door apologizing to the neighbors for letting your dog run lose. i am sure someone noticed it charging about....

[Pamela H in Texas]

Please take this in the vein that it's meant (to be helpful)...I'm not feeling well and it may or may not come out that way.

First, I agree with Joanne. He's old enough for the reality of the situation.

Second, I personally think he learned you were right by what happened. Sometimes natural consequences, though they may not "hurt," are PLENTY. Of course, there are times when natural consequences would be too much so can't be allowed, but this already happened....

Third, I agree that dog obedience classes may be good for dog and kiddo. And this again is one of those things where the discipline doesn't have to "hurt" but can be useful.

Of course, there can still be other ongoing discussion, training, teaching, etc regarding obedience. We still do those things, but find that good discipline is just better than punishment of any sort.

[Pamela H in Texas]

oh yeah...I do think it's reasonable to fill in holes, apologize to neighbors, clean up any other messes, etc. Those are all perfectly logical consequences.

[Scarlett]

Second, I personally think he learned you were right by what happened. Sometimes natural consequences, though they may not "hurt," are PLENTY. Of course, there are times when natural consequences would be too much so can't be allowed, but this already happened....


One would think so, but this is an ongoing problem. He can't stand for her to be 'stuck' on the leash, so he lets her off. In fact, today this is exactly how it happened. My parents were here, and ds was outside playing. Dog was on leash. I had expressly said, 'do not let the dog off the leash.' I see dog running by the window, clearly off the leash. I yell out window, 'ds, is dog off leash?!!' He comes to window with adorable smile on his face and explaining, 'yes, Mom, but I'm keeping a watchful eye on her.' Then runs off. This exchange, I learn later, seems like 'permission' to ds. :rolleyes: Within minutues I see ds frantically searching the yard with a wild expression on his face (she is very very fast) and I discover she has indeed escaped.

He managed to capture her which was great. I also made him fill up the holes, which had grown substantially over the last few escapes. He has lost his tv and computer time for the evening and he is writing sentences that say, I will obey my mother because God says I should.

[RegularMom]

I agree with Joanne here. The consequence must be meaningful and related to what happened. Could you replace some of his free time with extra time caring for and training the dog? Instead of computer time, have him brush the dog, work on teaching the dog obedience, read up on the breed and what the breed needs, that sort of thing.

If the dog is left too long alone in the yard, leashed or not, the dog will naturally get into some kind of trouble, particularly if it's a young dog. (Sort of like an 8yo boy, ha ha.) Your son will have to learn not just to obey you, but to Take Better Care Of His Dog. I think it's more important to teach him that He Endangered His Pet in this instance than to teach him he disobeyed you.

Hope this helps.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

One would think so, but this is an ongoing problem. He can't stand for her to be 'stuck' on the leash, so he lets her off. In fact, today this is exactly how it happened. My parents were here, and ds was outside playing. Dog was on leash. I had expressly said, 'do not let the dog off the leash.' I see dog running by the window, clearly off the leash. I yell out window, 'ds, is dog off leash?!!' He comes to window with adorable smile on his face and explaining, 'yes, Mom, but I'm keeping a watchful eye on her.' Then runs off. This exchange, I learn later, seems like 'permission' to ds.

Did you then go out and insist that he correct the situation at that point? If the dog had not gotten out, would you want consequences for this disobedience?

I guess my point is that this sounds as if the need for consequences is at least in part about the dog getting out, not much at all about the dog getting let off leash except as a means to the end result of escape.

What I would have done would be to go outside immediately, put the dog back on the leash, march ds back inside, and give him consequences for the disobedience. By allowing him the adorable smile and the next minutes of running free with the dog, you really kinda did give him "permission" to continue to disobey. (IMO, and YMMV.)

What you want to allow, allow and say yes with joy and conviction. But what you don't want to allow -- and I believe these things should be picked judiciously and with great care -- then absolutely don't allow and don't make exceptions unless you specifically and pointedly choose to do so and NEVER after disobedience has already happened. And particularly, don't be *charmed* into exceptions. "That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain."

IMO, and I may be reading this REALLY wrong and am willing to be ignored or corrected as necessary, you allowed him to disobey you. Perhaps part of the teaching might be that before he does something that you expressly forbade, he must come to you and respectfully ask for an exception. And role play how to accept the answers "no," "let me think about it," "not today, but perhaps another time," and "yes" with graciousness and minimal snarling on his part.

[Scarlett]

Did you then go out and insist that he correct the situation at that point? If the dog had not gotten out, would you want consequences for this disobedience?

I guess my point is that this sounds as if the need for consequences is at least in part about the dog getting out, not much at all about the dog getting let off leash except as a means to the end result of escape.

I wasn't charmed. I was distracted by my visiting parents. It took only about 3 minutes for her to get out after that conversation at the window. I certainly would have gone out and insist that he obey me and put the dog on the leash AGAIN, but I was distracted.

I will concede that he saw that as permission. But why oh why must I say the same thing over. and over. and over. I just want to be obeyed.

So he writes his sentences, with much wailing, (I sent him out of my earshot twice because he wailed so much) because he felt he was being doubly punished. No computer, no tv, fill the holes and write sentences. (Remember this is not a first offense) He and I eat supper, (dh is working late) and when he is done he wants to go back outside. It is now dark. He is out there playing and can you believe he just asked me if he could let her off the leash because 'she never digs out after dark.' Sigh. I said no. Again. I did however, allow him to attach one end of the leash to himself so he can walk he around our big dark yard with him.

Side note: I MUST get the electric fence ordered. Still and yet the issue is obedience.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Well, off the topic of the disobedience...

The electric fence has been *Wonderful* (insert the sounds of singing angels) for our family dog. She has not gotten out once. She is like a diferent animal, and we had thought she could not be tamed.

[Pamela H in Texas]

<<<<<One would think so, but this is an ongoing problem. He can't stand for her to be 'stuck' on the leash, so he lets her off. In fact, today this is exactly how it happened. My parents were here, and ds was outside playing. Dog was on leash. I had expressly said, 'do not let the dog off the leash.' I see dog running by the window, clearly off the leash.>>>>>

This child would not be going outside without supervision if he can't handle the responsibility of following the family rule. Also, discipline for ds should be immediate so there is no miscommunication about "permission."

However, I think a much more HELPFUL writing assignment would be that he finds an ACCEPTABLE way (disobedience is NOT acceptable) to find solutions to problems he's having. In that case, he can brainstorm a number of options and present them to you. If he needs help with ideas, you can throw out ideas about longer leash for when someone is out with dog that he could maybe work for or obedience classes (which I still think would help ds as much as dog!) or whatever he can come up with.

HTHs,
Pamela

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I wasn't charmed. I was distracted by my visiting parents. It took only about 3 minutes for her to get out after that conversation at the window. I certainly would have gone out and insist that he obey me and put the dog on the leash AGAIN, but I was distracted.

I will concede that he saw that as permission. But why oh why must I say the same thing over. and over. and over. I just want to be obeyed.

So he writes his sentences, with much wailing, (I sent him out of my earshot twice because he wailed so much) because he felt he was being doubly punished. No computer, no tv, fill the holes and write sentences. (Remember this is not a first offense) He and I eat supper, (dh is working late) and when he is done he wants to go back outside. It is now dark. He is out there playing and can you believe he just asked me if he could let her off the leash because 'she never digs out after dark.' Sigh. I said no. Again. I did however, allow him to attach one end of the leash to himself so he can walk he around our big dark yard with him.

Side note: I MUST get the electric fence ordered. Still and yet the issue is obedience.

Ah, see, I would have been distracted, too.

He learned his lesson, though. He *asked* you (again) for permission instead of just justifying it in his head. And you gave him a compromise.

I remember the mom of a remarkable young man who was once a student of mine (who is now a remarkable man, a dedicated father, and a pillar in his community and church) telling me about an incident that happened when he was three. He rode his tricycle in the driveway, but he was NOT allowed to turn into the alley that led to the street. She told me that she spanked the child four times in the space of an hour for turning the trike into the street, then finally realized he wasn't going to obey and so took the trike away. While marching him into the house, she asked in complete exasperation, "James, Mommy TOLD you not to go into the alley. And you got spanked and spanked, and now I'm taking your tricycle away for the rest of the week. Sweetie, WHY did you ride in the alley when you knew what would happen?"

And he, all of three years old, said, "Because it was worth it."

It's enough to make a grown mama cry sometimes, isn't it?

[Pamela H in Texas]

unnecessary post after reading thread