What would SWB do?

[Ohio12]

What would WTM or SWB think about the American girl books? In my mind the pros are: dd loves them and they do teach history. However, I do not think they are THAT well written and they don't go along chronologically with the history I am teaching.

[Riverfront Headmistress]

I won't answer for her, but in my house, my girls really enjoy the AG books. Sometimes in life, we read or watch something for pure pleasure - it doesn't all have to be in the name of high-classical education.

[nutmeg]

Sometimes in life, we read or watch something for pure pleasure - it doesn't all have to be in the name of high-classical education.
Exactly. Just let 'em read.

[katilac]

I don't think they're 'worth' school time, but I have no problem with my kids reading them on their own.

[dangermom]

Agree. My girls love AG books, and I think they're pretty good light reading--better than lots of books out there. But then I let my girls read Nancy Drew and Pony Pals, which I'm sure many of you think are twaddle. I think there's a definite value in light series reading, myself. And I'm all for kids choosing their own books to read for fun.

[ABQmom]

They are not probably high quality literature, but my dd's have learned a lot about history through reading them. More importantly, because they have read them, they are more interested in knowing facts about that time period because they have a hook to hang that information on. They have made my job a little easier during history class.

[strider]

I allow my dd to read them because they are basically harmless.

However, the history they teach is weak at best. I don't consider these books any more a teaching tool than any other historical fiction. Honestly, when I compare these books to any work by the Thoenes, I find that the depth the Thoenes offer in the context of story is solid.

Also the heroines are very much modern-day girls (anyone ever notice they are all described as "spunky?") with modern-day plots dropped into a historical setting. The stories are really, really NOT reflective of the times at all.

I do set some limits on what my dd reads based on moral content (immoral content is either forbidden or specifically processed in discussion with me) and based on how scary it is. (Dd is very susceptible to letting scary things take over her vivid imagination.) Other than that, dd is free to read twaddle if she wants, though I do try to suggest and inspire her to higher and better literature.

[Emmy]

Am I the only one sitting here chuckling over the thread title? I have visions of a sea of WTM inspired homeschoolers sporting little bracelets with the letters "WWSWBD" on them......:p

[dragons in the flower bed]

Am I the only one sitting here chuckling over the thread title? I have visions of a sea of WTM inspired homeschoolers sporting little bracelets with the letters "WWSWBD" on them......:p

Nope, me too. At first I thought maybe this thread was to be a sarcastic spin on recent threads about who belongs on these boards.

I loved the American Girl books when I was a kid, back when there were only three. In fact, I'd credit them with laying the foundation for my love of history. It was with Samantha that my nine-year-old self realized history was populated with actual people, experiencing real emotions just like I have.

[ArwenA]

They are loved here too. This week dd7 is reading Meet Felicity as part of studying the American Revolution. We have "better" books for read alouds but she loves AG books and is working really hard on her reading so I'm fine with that. I'd have a problem if we were only reading AG books but we aren't.

[Faithr]

These books were wonderful for my oldest dd. She loved them all but she got really into Felicity and we wound up going to Williamsburg and doing the Felicity tour which was very educational. Then when she got into the Addy books she wound up going on a Slavery/Civil War streak where she read all about Harriet Tubman, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Little Women, Abraham Lincoln. This happened again when she go into Kit and Molly; she spent months reading about the Depression, the Roosevelts, lots of kids historical fiction on WWII. This was all on her own. She basically unschooled herself in American history using these books as a jumping off point.

So we really appreciate American Girls books around here. We also went through a long period of buying the dolls and accessories. It was wonderful. You never had to wonder what to get my daughter for Christmas or birthdays for about 6 years there! You just got something to go with Felicity, Kit or Josephina!

[Pata]

Am I the only one sitting here chuckling over the thread title? I have visions of a sea of WTM inspired homeschoolers sporting little bracelets with the letters "WWSWBD" on them......:p

I thought the same thing! :D

[Pencil Pusher]

Did anybody notice the daughter in question is 5?

I haven't read any of the AG books yet, but I've been excited to get to them. (based on a lot of assumptions, apparently!:o) But I'd thought they were for *much* older girls. Hmm...I'm imagining the child reading the books themselves, though. Does that make a difference?

Anxious to hear back. Have a dd who will be 5 next mo!:)

[Faithr]

I started reading the Felicity books aloud to my dd when she was 5 or 6. She was a late reader (didn't click until she was 8). Once she was reading, she re-read them all and then started reading the new series as they came out. She's now 17, so this was a few years ago!

[TwinMominTX]

who cares what Susan Wise Bauer would do. SWB doesn't know your child and doesn't know about your specific homeschool goals or family ideals. If you would like your dd to read the American Girl books, have her read them. You are ultimately responsible for her education.

I think we would be hard pressed to find anyone (even on this board) who follows TWTM exactly and my guess is even SWB doesn't follow it exactly as written. If the books align with *your* educational goals great. If not, that's ok too.

Sorry if this sounds harsh and maybe the post is tongue in cheek and I am missing something?

TK

[mo2]

Maybe they don't count as history, but I would say they can definitely count for free-reading time. I read lots of books myself that I wouldn't classify as "educational," but I still read them.

[Ohio12]

I am the original poster with the 5 yo daughter. I am reading the books TO her!

[Ohio12]

I was asking in a funny way, but as I was reading the books aloud to dd, I felt like they were not very well written, so I wanted to see if anyone else agreed with me. I am also new to the whole chronological thing (although I love it) but wonder whether talking about some American history out of context is too confusing for her. I should have just asked if anyone else thinks they aren't well written!

[Lucidity]

Not to hijack this thread at all, but I've been considering both the AG books and the Dear America books for mine. Does anyone know how the Dear America books are and if they are similar/better/worse than the AG books?

Thanks,

[Eliana]

We don't use them at all.

We have much better books for the history, and much better, more satisfying books for the stories... and I have a *very* strong objection to product tie-in books.

But, as someone else said, We each have our own guidelines for what we use or don't, and the only relevant opinion, for your family, is yours! :)

[Pencil Pusher]

I was asking in a funny way, but as I was reading the books aloud to dd, I felt like they were not very well written, so I wanted to see if anyone else agreed with me. I am also new to the whole chronological thing (although I love it) but wonder whether talking about some American history out of context is too confusing for her. I should have just asked if anyone else thinks they aren't well written!

Are you laughing while you say this (I hope)? I just re-read the thread, worried that perhaps one of us (me?) had been harsh.

I didn't see anything, but you know how this format can be.:o I'm glad to know more about the books. I did have my hopes up for a moment that perhaps dd4 would be able to read them herself next yr. What can I say? :D

[Ohio12]

I wanted information AND to be a little funny. No one was too harsh, but some did not completely understand me. Everything is ok!

[Chris in VA]

I wanted to love them, I really did. I liked the idea, but was a little leery of the product tie-in aspect, as Eliana stated.
I guess I'm in the minority--I think they are poorly written and not worth the time. And I agree with the other poster who said the girls are "modern" in their sensibilities and not historically accurate portraits of childhood at those times.

But...
I might let dd pick up a few if she wanted. Some sweet ladies at church recently gave dd a gift certificate to buy an American Girl Doll. I felt bad, because it was a waste of $--she doesn't play with it at all. In fact, she said it was creeping her out at night because it's realistic-looking, so she wanted it put in the basement. We even had a dear friend who made about 8 little dresses for her doll (Emily). I just haven't the heart to tell them all it was a mistake. A very, very kind mistake.

I can see SWB's argument that allowing dc to read too much in poorly written series can dull their appetites for better books. I can see that in my own dd. She is hooked on Nancy Drew at the moment. I'm going to let her continue to read them, but I am now requiring more meaty reading. She also reads lots of classics, but I am noticing a little more resistance to new books.

[Faithr]

My dd did not care for the Dear America series. She has a reading disability so the fact that they were written in cursive or in dialect with misspellings really made it hard for her. She liked the Royal Diary series better, which isn't American history but world history. However, a lot of her friends liked Dear America. They are an easy read. You could check them out of the library and see.

As for history, they are light but as I said before they opened up my daughter's world into history and made her love it. Since reading came hard for her, I loved that she loved these books and got so much out of them.

[Eliana]

Not to hijack this thread at all, but I've been considering both the AG books and the Dear America books for mine. Does anyone know how the Dear America books are and if they are similar/better/worse than the AG books?

Thanks,

I remember the Dear America books as being for a slightly older audience.
the writing quality is more variable; each book is written by a different author.
However, I have not been impressed with either the writing or the history in any of the ones I've read.

We did like: http://www.amazon.com/Spring-Pearl-Flower-Girls-Lands/dp/1584855193/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205262518&sr=1-2
in the Girls of Many lands series, but that is the only one in any of those three series that I have felt worth reading... but I am horribly opinionated and very selective about what comes into our lives!

Speaking of historical fiction:

Four fabulous kids' hf authors with a couple of titles (they each have written many more books):

Burton, Hester (Beyond the weir bridge; In Spite of All Terror) [I would recommend previewing all of her books, there are occasionally references, generally passing ones, to adult topics (two books I can think have mention of an unwed pregnancy -one of them with emotional details I don't want my kids to deal with yet - 'The Henchmans at Home'). But she is a first rate HF author, and well worth the screening time.]

Polland, Madeleine (Queen without Crown, Town Across the Water. She has one YA, Shattered Summer, which is poignant and well done, but the emotional level isn't right for younger ones. She also wrote some (very pedestrian) adult HF - if you find a title and aren't sure about it, feel free to email or PM me, and I can tell you which it is!)

Harnett, Cynthia (Caxton's challenge; The sign of the Green Falcon - these have been reprinted at least once with different titles, so look by the author rather than the titles)

Sutcliff, Rosemary(Warrior Scarlet; The Eagle of the Ninth).


More romanticized, but delightful:

Alder: King's Shadow (preview for violence)
Barnes: The Tudor Rose
beatty: Campion Towers
Bennett, John: Master Skylark
Bernary-Isbert: The Ark; Rowan Farm
Bolton: Son of the land
Brink: Caddie Woodlawn
Clark: Secret of the Andes
Daringer: Pilgrim Kate
De Angeli: Thee Hannah (and the others in this series)
Forbes: Johnny Tremain
Gray: I Will Adventure; Adam of the Road
Eyre: Song of a Thrush
Fritz: Early Thunder
Chute, Marchette: Innocent Wayfaring (preview)
Hautzig: Endless Steppe (preview - could be scary, and deals with a hard situation)
Kaplan: Dog of Knots
McGraw, Eloise: Master Cornhill, Striped Ships, Moccasin Trail
McGregor, Iona: The tree of liberty.
Melnikoff: Star and the Sword; Plots and Players
Speare: Calico Captive, Witch of Blackbird Pond
Smith: The Captain's Dog
Willard, Barbara: The Mantlemass Chronicles (series)
Newell, Virginia: His own good daughter
Taylor: All of a Kind Family series
Rankin: Daughter of the Mountains
Steele: Trail through Danger
Schwabach: Pickpocket's tale
Seredy: Good Master, Singing Tree, Chestry Oak (the latter two for older kids only, imo)
uttley: Traveler in Time (time slip book so more fantasy than HF)
Price: Three Golden Nobles
Van Stockum, Hilda: Winged Watchman; Andries; Pegeen
Watson, Sally: Mistress Malapert, Linnet (and many others - delightful, spunky, rose-tinted, but well done all the same.)
Welch: Sun of York
Weilerstein: Ten and a Kid

Five not-as-well-written, but interesting books:

The Hebrew Kid and the Apache Maiden
Nothing Here but Stones (preview - not a light story)
Zayda was a Cowboy
The War Within - Matas
Bridge to America - Glaser

Our kids liked these b/c they were some of the few stories which fit Jews into the broader American history we'd been studying.

I'm not sure where these fit. I read them when I was young, but I don't remember them as juvenile. I haven't come back to reread them, but they all made an impression on me.

Porter, Jane: The Scottish Chiefs
Muntz, Hope: The golden warrior
Hodges: the Marsh King


For my younger kids, we have a lot of picture books, of varying lengths and depth of coverage.

[MelissaMinNC]

I was asking in a funny way, but as I was reading the books aloud to dd, I felt like they were not very well written, so I wanted to see if anyone else agreed with me. I am also new to the whole chronological thing (although I love it) but wonder whether talking about some American history out of context is too confusing for her. I should have just asked if anyone else thinks they aren't well written!


Okay, my .02. I read several of these to my dd when she was 5 and will read more if she gets interested again. I did not think they were that badly written - not great, but not complete twaddle, imo.

As far as having history out of context, I don't think this is an issue at all at this age. From what I can tell, kids this age have very little perception of time periods. Anicent Greece was "a long time ago" and so was the Revolutionary War, and so was Christmas '07. I would just not worry about this at all at this point - if she asks questions, you can give her a simple explanation "Oh, no, there were no mummies in Felicity's day. If Felicity were a real person, she would have lived a long time ago, but the mummies were even a long time before that, and in a different part of the world." And leave it at that, until she asks the next question. It'll all start to make more sense by the time you reach the end of the first history cycle. (Or at least that's what I'm assuming, as I haven't got there yet myself.)

:)
Melissa

[MelissaMinNC]

I loved the American Girl books when I was a kid, back when there were only three. In fact, I'd credit them with laying the foundation for my love of history. It was with Samantha that my nine-year-old self realized history was populated with actual people, experiencing real emotions just like I have.


Aaaaaaccccckkkkk! :eek: I feel SO old! I'm sure these books were not out when I was a kid; I really thought they were fairly recent.

:D
Melissa

[Daisy]

My DD loved the AG books. They didn't bother me. Sure you can find better books. I was just happy to see her enjoying what she was reading and it turned her on to history. I don't see it as any worse or better than letting your child read Dr. Seuss or Geronimo Stilton or my reading an occasional best selling piece of fluff. LOL, it is just for fun.

[Eliana]

I was asking in a funny way, but as I was reading the books aloud to dd, I felt like they were not very well written, so I wanted to see if anyone else agreed with me. I am also new to the whole chronological thing (although I love it) but wonder whether talking about some American history out of context is too confusing for her. I should have just asked if anyone else thinks they aren't well written!

As I said, I don't think they are well written at all, but I wouldn't be concerned about reading stories out of sync with a chronological study of history. I like to do history study chronologically - I think it makes more sense that way, but I think kids can appreciate historical fiction for the story - the setting is like the worldbuilding in a fantasy story, and is secondary to the story itself (if it isn't, then it is either non-fiction or not worth reading, imnsho.)

One of my kids' favorites at that age was "Little Pear" (and sequels):
http://www.amazon.com/Little-Pear-Odyssey-Classics/dp/0152055029/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205267470&sr=1-2
(though I hope the cover illustration doesn't mean the lovely original illustrations have been replaced!) about a little boy in China some time ago.

Another favorite is "Milly Molly Mandy":

http://www.amazon.com/Milly-Molly-Mandy-Storybook-Joyce-Lankester-Brisley/dp/0753453320/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205267563&sr=1-1
about a little girl in an English village in the early 1900's.

E Nesbit's stories, Arthur Ransome's Swallows and Amazons, the Oz books, Laura Ingalls Wilder, The Secret Garden, All of a Kind Family ...all of these have such different settings and timeframes, but it is the story which draws the child in.

I think it is good for kids to see different settings, different cultures, different lifestyles naturally embedded in real stories (as opposed to artificially pushed into a cardboard facsimile of a story there to deliver the educational 'lesson'. And I think seeing that variety gives them mental pegs (as SWB calls it in a different context in TWTM) to hand latter information on.

[Pencil Pusher]

I wanted information AND to be a little funny. No one was too harsh, but some did not completely understand me. Everything is ok!

Whew!:D

[Alice]

Aaaaaaccccckkkkk! :eek: I feel SO old! I'm sure these books were not out when I was a kid; I really thought they were fairly recent.

:D
Melissa

If you want to feel really old...try the new American Girl historical novel...Julie from 1974! http://www.americangirl.com/agcn/julie/

[angela in ohio]

I don't like AG because I think they take modern girl attitudes and modern thoughts and project them backwards. I do not want my dds to think that they are in any way historical, so we skip them. I also avoid poor sentence structure, bland vocabulary, etc., so they would be out anyway.

Now I would read a dozen of them before I would read a Dear America book. My s-i-l kept offering them to dds (she is a public school teacher, and they are THE rage,) so I read one. Ack!

There are so, so, so, so many beautifully written books for girls the same age, I can't see why anyone would need to settle for either series.

[Daisy]

I agree AG wins hands down over the Dear America books.

[attachedto4]

I haven't read any American Girl books yet, but I did grab a couple of Dear America from a scholastic warehouse sale because they were super cheap and I wanted to preview them for dd. They are horrible. Awful writing and not historically accurate in the least.

[Faithr]

Well, just because one reads AG books doesn't mean that one doesn't read a lot other books too. In fact we have read many of the books on Eliana's list in addition to and not instead of.

One of my favorites is Milly-Molly-Mandy. I discovered those a couple years ago when my now 6 yo was 4. I read them aloud to her and soon the whole family, teenagers and husband included, would sit and listen. It became a family read aloud. They are really delightful.

I had never thought about the tie in thing and I think I might be a tie-in kind of person, without ever realizing it! I look around my home and I see the Milly-Molly-Mandy doll (came with one of the books, don't you know!), and both Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy dolls(we went through a summer where that's all my dd wanted to hear). And of course we have Madeleine. And Little House paper dolls, and Alice in Wonderland paper dolls and Curious George paper dolls. Oh and cute little Peter Rabbit stuff (we went to an exhibit on Beatrix Potter years back and I couldn't resist!)

Oh well, I'm probably hopeless!

And in spite of the fact that my now 17 yo dd read all the AG books numerous times, she's decided on her own to read all the Jane Austen novels. (She still struggles with LDs) So far she's read Pride and Prejudice and is now almost finished reading Sense and Sensibility (she tells me she'll write a paper on it). So I don't think AG books ruined her completely. . . . .

(I probaby shouldn't even mention how I used to let my now 12 yo read Bionicles and how that led him into mythology that lead him into Greek history and he is even now reading a book about Xenophon because he finds it interesting. . . . .)

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Some of them are listed in the SOTW Activity Guide as Additional Literature. I guess that means SWB doesn't give them a "thumbs down."

[Eliana]

Well, just because one reads AG books doesn't mean that one doesn't read a lot other books too. In fact we have read many of the books on Eliana's list in addition to and not instead of.

Absolutely! ...and we allow in some poorly written things as well. ...but we use up a lot of our quota on things such as The Hebrew Kid and the Apache Maiden. ;) ...and we have so many other (imho much better) books that cover this area.


One of my favorites is Milly-Molly-Mandy. I discovered those a couple years ago when my now 6 yo was 4. I read them aloud to her and soon the whole family, teenagers and husband included, would sit and listen. It became a family read aloud. They are really delightful.

Aren't they marvelous? I love having treasures such as this reprinted - it counter acts some of my gloom about the state of children's literature and publishing practices therein.

I had never thought about the tie in thing and I think I might be a tie-in kind of person, without ever realizing it! I look around my home and I see the Milly-Molly-Mandy doll (came with one of the books, don't you know!), and both Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy dolls(we went through a summer where that's all my dd wanted to hear). And of course we have Madeleine. And Little House paper dolls, and Alice in Wonderland paper dolls and Curious George paper dolls. Oh and cute little Peter Rabbit stuff (we went to an exhibit on Beatrix Potter years back and I couldn't resist!)

Oh well, I'm probably hopeless!


:) My prejudices on this were shaped, I believe, by my mother's very strong feelings on the subject. She felt very validated when the Horn Book had an article on the subject (I couldn't find the full text free online without a membership somewhere, but for anyone interested in hearing this viewpoint:

The first part of the article is here and you can follow the link to see if your local library has purchased access for its cardholders:
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-26019811_ITM

Or read the first part here and get a free trial membership with Goliath:

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-2039193_ITM


And in spite of the fact that my now 17 yo dd read all the AG books numerous times, she's decided on her own to read all the Jane Austen novels. (She still struggles with LDs) So far she's read Pride and Prejudice and is now almost finished reading Sense and Sensibility (she tells me she'll write a paper on it). So I don't think AG books ruined her completely. . . . .

(I probaby shouldn't even mention how I used to let my now 12 yo read Bionicles and how that led him into mythology that lead him into Greek history and he is even now reading a book about Xenophon because he finds it interesting. . . . .)


I agree completely that a single poorly written book or even series of books won't ruin anyone! We do tend to be more selective than many families prefer to be, but I don't want you (or anyone else!) to feel I am attacking or belittling the choices you make for your family.

With limited time, money, space, and energy we all make choices about which things we will 'consume', and, ideally, we will each make those choices based on our family's values, interests, and priorities...probably with a little gut-level instinct thrown in!

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

Who cares what SWB would do... I read everyone of them with my daughter and loved each of them! It was a great experience together!:)