Help with how to handle a situation please.

[TraceyS/FL]

I need to address this, but not sure how far to go - and what to NOT say either.

My oldest recently joined Civil Air Patrol and is really enjoying it. THey had the opportunity to go for glider flights yesterday at the last minutes - and she got to go since i was the only one that could drive (the Colonels van was in the shop).

So there were 4 girls, and 1 boy. The boy was the highest ranking cadet there - he actually is the same rank as one of the girls boyfriend. She was the highest ranking female cadet there.

So i found out when we were ready to leave that this girl has ADHD but couldn't take her meds because she isn't allowed to fly with them.

OK, then.

It wasn't that bad on the way over (90 minute drive), she was REALLY pushy over what movie they were watching, the 4 of them were enjoying Race to Witch Mountain - she declared she didn't like it and wanted to watch the original (we had that with us too). There was like 20 minutes left... they all let her get away with it.

So there was an incident while we were there, out on the flight line, involving ME. She came down too hard on my DD for something she asked me - because i honestly don't think she could think clear enough to "get it". She said something later to ME about my DD's "listening problem", i got really irked the way she was saying it too. She really didn't listen to what i said was going on - and my DD was responding how i'd expect her to given what i said on the phone to her.

The other girls said away from her, "don't pay much attention to her, she's like this when she's not on her meds".

Which i get is an issue, BUT, i found her actions/behavior unbecoming to her position as the "highest female ranking cadet" there. Which she kept reminding us of too. Frankly, i would have busted her behind right there to the Colonel had the med "excuse" not been in play.

It proceeded to go downhilll when after my flight my camera was missing. They were content to sit there eating my food and drinking the water i bought them because they showed up with neither, and this one girl actually SMIRKED at me and said, "so where IS your camera?". At that point i realized that my CAR KEYS were also missing after my DD had hunted around in the van for some extra clothes for one of the girls (she didn't get the "wear shorts" memo and was in BDU's). So i snapped about it, and they STILL didn't get up to help look. The boy did - and about that time DD discovered where the other golf cart with my camera had gone (and i'm talking a $2000 camera here - but seriously, i'm pretty sure they'd not have a clue it would be that much to replace).

The ride home was bad - i had a headache this morning from the loudness. She got one of the other girls wound up with her and ye gads. They then chose to sit in a booth for 4 at dinner - leaving my DD "out" and sitting alone. This girl is the ring leader apparently, and honestly the other 2 are good kids but just follow her, i'm guessing because they all go to school together. (i spent about 5 hours with one of them at an event a few weeks ago, totally different girl with this one not around).

The thing is, the Colonel (who was in the car, but can tune them out) knows there was an issue and that i told him i'd talk about it later when the kids were around.

I know i will NOT attend an event she is at unmedicated again, and have told my DD that she has my permission to say that too. My DD also understands that she was so "out of control" because she was off her meds and didn't take it personally (very much).

BUT, some of her actions were just bad. And, reflect poorly on the Cadets, and frankly, some of them i felt where out of line even off the meds. She says she wants to join the Air Force and become a JAG lawyer. OK, but well, that won't work with what i saw yesterday....

SOOO, i have no idea how much to address. How much can be blamed on the meds - and if it ALL can really be their fault, should be be allowed to beat up the cadets under her even if she is out of control? Am i thinking that if she is that bad off them, that she should "step aside" or something and let the next girl step up to the plate?

She has been in for a few years, we are new. But this girl off meds is NOT pretty (nor quiet - if i had to hear about her boyfriend and how he likes her OUT of the red dress one more time.... ). Her behavior and actions toward my DD after i snapped at her about my missing keys was poor - and she drug the other 3 with her. My conversation needs to be about her actions towards ME and not my DD who got drug into it too....

Does this make sense at all? I just don't know how to approach this - and could use input from those of you that have kids on meds and might have more advice.

One thing i can say, if THAT is ADHD.... there is NO WAY that my middle child is remotely even close to being ADHD like that doctor said.

So can anyone help me here???

Thanks....

[Ottakee]

Well, my big question would be how is this girl when she DOES take her meds? For some people it is honestly a HUGE difference. For others the meds are an excuse for poor behavior.

If though she acts like this off meds, it might be time for the civil air patrol leaders to decide what she can and can not safely do. Her behavior off meds was certainly not appropriate.

[Dobela]

Meds or no meds is not an excuse for all of that poor behavior IMO. I have worked with kids on and off meds for several years. Even without meds they can learn appropriate behavior and how to control themselves. Impulsiveness and loudness is one thing, being a bully is quite another.

[Momto2Ns]

I think pp makes a good point. I would also suggest something I have never suggested on this board before. I'm going to suggest you post this on the general board. There are many people with kids on ADHD meds who do not consider their kids special needs and do not come to this board. You will get a lot more traffic there. Granted, you will get a lot of opinions from people with no experience with kids with disabilities too :001_smile: so turn you'll have to filter, but it might help. You might find more people with Civil Air Patrol experience too.

My experience is with autistic spectrum kids, both mine and others. They can be very socially inappropriate and the behavior you have described in this girl sounds like something I would consider typical of many girls with aspergers syndrome. They are often loud and have no clue that they are being rude or overbearing. They also would do something like sit at a booth for 4 without even thinking that they are excluding someone. ASD kids usually aren't capable of putting themselves in someone else's shoes. If this girl is only like this off meds, then it is just an issue of what they allow her to do off meds. If she is always like this, she probably has some ASD characteristics which often co-exist with ADD or ADHD and they may have be undiagnosed or her parents just don't admit to it publicly. In this case, she may be unable to control the behavior all the time. That being the case, I would expect the colonel and/or her parents to take an active role in making sure she remains appropriate both in her behavior as a cadet and in her behavior as a senior officer over other cadets. If she can't control the behavior on her own, she needs help. She needs to be monitored closely and told when she is out of line and put into a situation where she can pull herself back together. She should never be allowed to hurt those in her command.

That doesn't mean I would punish behavior that she can't control. I just wouldn't let her get away with it either. I would be employing techniques such as, pulling her aside, telling her she is too loud or telling her her exactly how her her behavior needs to change (she won't know if she isn't told precisely), then giving her an opportunity to be by herself if possible to calm herself and regain control before rejoining the group. If the behavior doesn't change, more explanation of what is wrong, more time out. I wouldn't call it time out. I would start with distraction, "can you go get me whatever from wherever?" that removes her for a minute to calm herself.

That is all the colonel's job or her parent's job though. It is sad, but some kids can't learn social skills without them being taught explicitly. They don't just pick them up. No one teaches these skills, they are supposed to be absorbed. If you don't recognize the deficit and work on it explicitly, it will exist forever. Even with work, most ASD kids will struggle with this forever.

[Orthodox6]

More than one "flag" in your write-up, as I read it.

(1) If a person may not fly while taking medication, then that person should not be allowed to fly. Period. It creates a potentially very dangerous situation.

(1-a) Perhaps the website for the CAP includes information on what health conditions prevent a person from flying.

(1-b) Were it my dd, I never would allow her in a plane again with the other girl at the controls.

(2) Medication is not "magic". Meds never, ever replace behavioural correction and training. Somebody is not doing his/her job -- and that spells "p.a.r.e.n.t.s."

(3) Medication cannot be used to "excuse" behaviour. Neither the taking of medications, nor the not taking of needed medications. When a person starts blaming the meds for his problems, he is chucking personal responsibility out the window. (I say that with the assumption that the person has been diagnosed properly, and is taking the correct medication at the correct dosage for the pertinent health condition.) (Reread #2 above.)

(4) Whether or not this girl has other conditions in addition to the ADHD, I can't know. Certainly her behaviour indicates that she likely has additionl conditions. But one cannot possibly speculate with any accuracy what they are.

(5) Do follow up with the Colonel, and share exactly what you shared with us here.

(6) If the girl is in your carpool, does it follow that you have a relationship with the girl's mother such that you can tell her this same information? Approaching a parent always is tricky, and this one could go in different directions. The parents might welcome your input. They might be ineffectively wringing their hands because they don't know how to get their arms around the situation of their own dd. On the other hand, the parents might -- well, let's just say, "be nonreceptive" of your well-meaning and needed observations.

I have severe ADHD, and have two children with same. None of us act in the modes you have described.

Hope some of this is helpful. I tried hard to write something to fit.

[EKS]

More than one "flag" in your write-up, as I read it.

(1) If a person may not fly while taking medication, then that person should not be allowed to fly. Period. It creates a potentially very dangerous situation.

(1-a) Perhaps the website for the CAP includes information on what health conditions prevent a person from flying.

(1-b) Were it my dd, I never would allow her in a plane again with the other girl at the controls.


:iagree:

[TraceyS/FL]

Thank you so far. I don't have time right now to totally respond, but i'll say that you all collectively have hit on a variety of things running thru my mind.

And yes, i'm feeling like there is more there going on than just this (ADHD). The curse of having read so much and lived so much recently in this area huh?

I had planned to type up and email to the Colonel last night on it, but the whole trip to the ER with the broken glass in foot mucked up my whole night... and then i decided i needed feedback.

I will go cross post it to General though.