Is She Gifted?

[Spring Pea]

I've always thought so. My husband and I were "labled" g/t when we were in school and I recognize similar things in my daughter. She's five and we went through kindergarten last year quite easily.

I read some of these posts where parents are writing of their child's abilities (not to discourage that--I'm glad there's a place we can talk without others thinking we're braggarts) and I don't think my child's abilities would be considered that stellar.

She can learn anything she wants to, but sometimes I have a hard time getting her to try. It seems if it doesn't come easily, it's too much trouble. So I don't know; do I push? Or just let her be "normal"?

Is she too young for some kind of testing? Or is there a certain skill level, like reading on a third grade level, that's required for that? :confused:

Any advice?

[zaichiki]

There are so many "flavors" of gifted. Here's an example. My oldest two have nearly identical full-scale IQ scores, but they have vastly different strengths and personalities.

If you really want to know a number, you can arrange for private testing. I believe at 5 most psychologists would want to do the WPPSI.

Have you been to the hoagiesgifted website? There's a lot of good info over there. You might also take a look here: http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/What_is_Gifted/characgt.htm

and check out the third page here
http://www.pagiftededucation.info/documents/RufEstimatesofLevelsofGiftedness.pdf

Have fun!

[JennW in SoCal]

I think you have 2 separate questions, one being when and if testing is necessary, and the other being when and how hard to push.

Someone here once outlined some sensible criteria for deciding when to test, and from what I can remember, she suggested that testing is called for if you think there is something wrong -- that there is a disconnect between ability and potential. My oldest ds, for instance, fit this criteria perfectly. He seemed gifted but just struggled with some basics, and sure enough tested gifted and learning disabled. The testing helped me to see his potential, to understand that I needed to help him learn to cope with and overcome his disabilities, and to adapt our homeschool to fit him. The IQ number ultimately made no difference -- he is my son and we homeschool -- my goal was always to instill a love of learning and give him the skills to be a lifelong learner.

I've never tested my other ds. He is also clearly gifted, but doesn't have the same roadblocks. He does, however, have a perfectionist streak that sometimes makes it seem like he is reluctant to try something new or slightly challenging. He likes to take his time, and test things out on his own without me looking over his shoulder. This trait has lessened with maturity. As I said, I've never tested him, and it has never mattered. He is learning at his own speed and doing fabulously well.

I don't think there is a need to push at such a young age. This is the age that Maria Montessori described children as having an "absorbent mind", and it is true and such a bummer when they grow out of it! Young kids are fascinated by the world, excited by new things, and you should simply be taking advantage of that. Sometimes their brains just aren't ready for the quantum leaps required for fluent reading or more advanced math, but instead their minds are hungry for more and deeper information about a subject that interests them. It doesn't mean you don't work on reading skills or number sense or copy work, but don't push it. Make it a regular but small part of your day.

Keep a journal of what you do -- the places you go, the games you play and the books you read, and the questions they ask or observations they make. Use the journal to look at your children with a fresh perspective, to view them without comparing them to what you *think* they ought to be doing, without trying to figure out if they are doing 1st grade or gifted work. Listen to them, enjoy them. You'll know if they are making connections and learning and if they are engaged. If you still have a nagging sense that something isn't quite right, then by all means, start the testing process.

I hope this is coming across in the encouraging spirit I intended! I've been there and done that worrying and wondering about what to do and whether to push. Actually I still do worry and wonder to some degree -- it is part and parcel of homeschooling. :tongue_smilie:

[Jewel]

JennW that was beautifully said...thankful for the loving guidance.

I have been were you are at regarding testing. I just wanted to get my 6dd tested just so I could say "yes" she is gifted to myself. Now however I have loosened up and am really enjoying the ride. Kids are funny and often unpredicatable, just pulling questions/thoughts out in the most natural way. As for the subject of reading, my 6dd started out fast, then slowed down, then started fast again. Her goal this year is to read Harry Potter--this is her goal, not mine. I think it is a little ambitious considering she is reading at a 4th grade level but if she has the desire, well she just may pull it off. Motivation, let it come on her own time. No fear, your daughter will push herself when she is ready for a challenge. However, doing school work that is at her level and she just doesnot want to complete ...well, that is the time to push, push to completion (if it is for the day). I donot worry anymore about pushing my daughter, I worry about giving her enough challenge. Thoughts like, what will we do after that (book, workbook ) is done? Are there enough books for her to read? Are we doing enough science or math? I have set up my home so that many activities are available to my children for instance: a kid's sewing center (machine&fabric), art area with everything one would need & pictures from famous artists, and a science area with books/microscope/collections/elements chart. Yesterday on her own, she collected items to look under her microscope with much facination, showing us what she had found. Some people may think giving a microscope to a six year old is pushing, but she wanted one and really I think kids should be comfortable with such tools. My dd6 is also very socially aware and the discussion of what is cool came up along with the whole princess thing. We talked about how being called a princess can be a negative so she decided to play the part of a doctor princess, helping others rather than being self centered. She is currently working on a play, requested to learn to type (program) and has begun using word processing. This is what I am talking about...keeping up is sometimes hard for this mommy. Enjoy the ride....kids will create their own learning through play. Keep going on field trips, reading books together and discussing the world around you.

[Truscifi]

It depends on whether the work she is resisting is at her level. If it is, then I would push (gently) to do a little more. On the other hand, while my ds5 doesn't like to sit down and do formal school - we have cut back to 1-2 hours spread out in the day - he will play for hours on various educational sites where he regularly does well on quizzes designed for 5th graders. And today he decided to build a diorama (sp?) of sea creatures after reading about one online. He has researched what animals are found together at a certain depth, and printed them out, and is in the process of coloring them and putting together the box. The only involvement I have had is helping cut things out for him. My point is that even though he is resistant to math drills, he is learning tons right now doing his own projects. Of course, it doesn't hurt that he is ahead in everything too, so we can relax and go at his pace.

Just my .02 :tongue_smilie:

On rereading, I realized I said nothing about testing. I am having ds tested both for my own information (so I have a better idea of what I should really expect from him) and because he may qualify for gifted services through the school system while still being homeschooled. We have trouble finding kids for him to interact with sometimes because he is ahead academically - he gets along fine with his karate buddies, but they won't discuss the causes of the various mass extinctions with him. Whether or not you have your dc tested is up to you - just because you want to know/think it will help you teach better is okay, at least IMHO.

[melmichigan]

From all the information I have read on hoagies and the davidson forum most people would say test if you have a question. The best time I am told is between 6-8. Then the child can use the WISC and Stanford-Binet tests but isn't to old to hit many ceilings that might affect their scores. My oldest DD9 was tested, but on the late side and we had that problem. We are currently testing my twin DD6's.

As for pushing, it really depends on the child, you know her best. I agree you certainly don't want to put any damper on their love of learning. But, let you give me an example of my Monday. We started Spelling. I started both my twins on first grade spelling. For my oldest twin this is a few grades below where she should be but she hasn't done any formal spelling and hates to write, so it's handwriting in disguise in addition to an introducation. For my younger twin it is right about her reading level. My youngest twin who has to work at it was fine, went right to work. My oldest DD, who should skate through it wouldn't even attempt the first word. She yelled and cried and had a fit that she wasn't doing it, she couldn't, on and on while I just ignored her but made her sit at the table. Finally after about 20 minutes she opened her book and conceeded to doing the assignment. Then, she wanted to know if she could do more spelling.:lol: As a parent, sometimes you know you have to push, just a little. Yesterday, she did spelling, first, it's her new favorite subject.

[Spring Pea]

Thanks Jenn, I think that's what I needed to hear. I know she's bright, but sometimes gifted and accelerated are different. One thing that challenges me is that she has two neighbors, good friends, who are very smart too. She is 5 1/2, one girl is 6 and the other is 6 1/2. They all are going into first grade. And I find myself wanting to compare her to them. They are all reading above grade level, but dc is not at the same place as the two of them. (However, she seems leaps and bounds ahead of some kids her age) I hate that I find myself comparing kids. I know that's not the right thing to do, I just want to have a clear understanding of her gifts.

As far as the pushing question, I think it's perfectionism that keeps her from some things. She hates me to correct her. It was only the phonics lessons that she needed a push on, and when I let her read independently, she is much happier.

As I'm typing this, I realize she's sitting in front of the tv. Not so good for developing the mind. She's a VERY social kid and would rather play with other people than research extinctions or build dioramas. (Does that mean she's not gifted? See, always worrying.) So, the tv comes on when she's wanting to go play and it's not a good time.

Thanks for your help. I think I'm gonna go play with my kid. :)

[Aurelia]

Your daughter sounds almost exactly like mine! Ariel is not quite 5.5, but she is very bright (not sure about gifted, though it's likely since I was labled g/t as a child and she does a lot of the same things I did). I keep wondering about testing, but will probably hold off until 6 or 7, when (I hope) some of her drama fits subside and she has (hopefully) started to try new things without giving up beforehand. If I had to guess, I'd say Ariel is moderately gifted, nothing like the PG or EG kids, but she's definintely not normal, KWIM? Your daughter might be the same. You can have her tested at any age, though from what I have read, between 6-8 is ideal, although the more gifted you think the child is, the younger they should be testing so they don't hit the ceiling of the test.

Some things you just have to push, and the child, after the weeping and dramatics until they break down and do it is over, finds out that hey! playing piano (or whatever new activitiy) is fun! If she legitimately dislikes something after giving it an honest try, I won't usually push it, but find something else or a new way to present the concept. I don't think I've ruined her yet.

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm pretty much on the same page - I was put in GT programs as a child and the girls are a lot like me. Probably moderately gifted, but you realize they're not average pretty quickly too. :001_huh:

I won't test until they're older - maybe 7 or 8. Becca is so very active and bouncy, I just don't see her doing well in a formal testing situation. Plus, I'm concerned that she might just freeze up if she feels pressured.

[Donna]

I've always thought so. My husband and I were "labled" g/t when we were in school and I recognize similar things in my daughter. She's five and we went through kindergarten last year quite easily.

I read some of these posts where parents are writing of their child's abilities (not to discourage that--I'm glad there's a place we can talk without others thinking we're braggarts) and I don't think my child's abilities would be considered that stellar.

She can learn anything she wants to, but sometimes I have a hard time getting her to try. It seems if it doesn't come easily, it's too much trouble. So I don't know; do I push? Or just let her be "normal"?

Is she too young for some kind of testing? Or is there a certain skill level, like reading on a third grade level, that's required for that? :confused:

Any advice?

I had my dd tested at 5.5yo. I wish I had waited a bit longer. She is and always has been very mature for her age but during the IQ part of the testing, she tended to not think or overthink the easy questions while getting the harder questions correct. She is also an "out of the box" thinker so the tester said that in a few sections her answers made perfectly good sense when she explained them but were not the answers that could be scored (kwim). She did fine on the testing and came out 96% on the IQ test and above the 99.9% on all the sections of the Woodcock Johnson but I wasn't satisfied that her IQ scores were an accurate picture of who she is based on the examiner's comments.

I think if I had waited, she might have understood more about the importance of the test or might have been more tolerant of easy questions. Then again, she might be even more creative at this point so it might have all balanced out. LOL

My dd was very perfectionistic especially as a preschooler (3-4yo). She was very resistant to things that didn't come to her immediately. I saw this trait especially with her violin lessons. We worked to overcome it by constantly telling her that we "practice to make it easier" and also by encouraging her to be creative and explore (not just on her violin but in everything).

In her learning/schooling, I tend to keep a lot of options available to her...introducing her to many different topics. Those that catch her interest, we pursue as far as she wants whereas others we may just touch on. I try to keep everything very hands on especially and playful. Science is completely hands on and math is getting less hands on as she gets older. I don't push her but keeping everything within her reach and other options (like tv and computer except for learning) off the table, she tends to want to learn more.

I think it is possible for your child to learn a lot without pushing just by looking at how you approach school. With some kids, like my dd, bringing out all her books and saying "Time for school...let's do this, this, and this" wouldn't work especially not at 5yo.

Instead, she had her shelf for her learning materials and now and then we'd pick something out of the pile to do or she'd bring me something to help her with, I'd ask her questions or listen to her questions so that we went deeper into the topic or we'd bring out some manipulatives to cement the information more. Sometimes I'd ask, "Would you like to do this or that?" because giving her options made it more her choice than mine even though I only gave her choices I could live with.

This way of schooling is less organized than I like to be but works with dd's personality type so is worth the effort. I very rarely see the perfectionist in her anymore and she is learning all the time at an amazing rate without any pressure.

[zaichiki]

"practice to make it easier"


Ed Sprunger? :)

What a truth, though, huh? I'm SO glad I stopped saying "practice makes perfect." Talk about pressure for a perfectionist child!

[Donna]

Ed Sprunger? :)

What a truth, though, huh? I'm SO glad I stopped saying "practice makes perfect." Talk about pressure for a perfectionist child!

Her violin teacher said it to her long before I read Ed Sprunger's book but that book is a great read.

[Spring Pea]

I may have to read Ed Sprunger. I like that expression. I used to tell her, "there is an expression that says Practice makes Perfect. It means if you keep trying it, you'll get better." Now I see "practice makes it easier" would be a MUCH better thing to say to the perfectionist.

On a side note, I really like talking to people who understand how I could have a conversation with my 5yo about expressions and thier meanings. ;)

[mom2koh]

:grouphug:

Didn't read through all of the posts. So here's my .02

It's so hard to know with the little ones. I have a 5.5 year old and she's smart beyond her years (she can talk her way out of anything through sheer logic and reasoning. Future lawyer????). But, some days doing the school work is such a chore. She's a very creative person so I temper the phonics humdrum by bookending it with more creative subjects like art and music. This way she's happier coming into it and has something to look foward to. Then I save math for last. Why???? It's her absolute favorite subject. In her mind she can see so many ways to the solution it's breathtaking. But I know she loves it and we always end the day on a positive note.

The best adivce I ever heard; don't test unless you think there's a problem or you must have the scores for program entrance. Our mom's instincts are the best. There are so many outlying factors in testing (ie when my child is uninterested she dawdles and would never make the time cuts right now). That advice was from my dds peditrician!

Good luck.

[Reya]

Yes, you can have testing, but there's more variation in IQ among the gifted than there are in the entire rest of the scale.

[rlowetx]

Our child was tested at school due to severe behavior problems and social issues - they thought it was ADHD or Aspergers...turns out it was a very high IQ with certain areas being even more ridiculously high (he did the Woodcock Johnson III). We actually didn't think he was gifted (so never thought of testing on our own), just a good kid to talk to, who picked concepts up quickly. We are VERY happy now to know about this and it was worth having him tested. We did lots of research subsequently and now understand so much better of how his mind is working and how it is not working...he just doesn't think like the rest of us..I was considered gifted as well, but its just different with him than it was with me and the research made us realize that gifted children are truly unique (like all children really) and you can't pinpoint this IQ means that and this IQ means something else. For us testing was a critical point in our change in how we dealt with him and in deciding to homeschool...he will not be successful in ps, at least not for now. But like the others stated, testing is there if you think something is amiss.. in our house, something was amiss and his IQ score helped us realign our expectations of him and of ourselves. We do not use it to push him towards his gifts, we just use it now to understand better how to help him get where he wants to go (currently a paleontologist, egyptologist, geologist). If they do test as gifted, I highly suggest doing some research on gifted children, it has been an eye-opener to me and greatly benefitted our family life.

[alexfam]

You can ask your school if they do GT testing. You can also have her privately tested both IQ and achievement.