Moms with boys attitude question

[Alison in KY]

I'm just wondering if I'm that bad of a parent or if it's the breed of boy. My 8 yr old, going on 9 in one month, is pretty big for his age. He's probably as tall as a 10 or 11 yr old and has a bit of a belly. He weighs about 120, although he doesn't look greatly overweight, he is a bit overweight.

So what I'm wondering is how to control him. He's rough, rough, rough and he gets loud and wound up. He thinks he can even wrestle with me....but he's just too rough, like doesn't get his own strength. (No, he's never seen WWF or anything like that). He also has started making a comment to everything...like I might say "put it back on that horse show" and he, under his breath says "horses are stupid".

It seems that I"m constantly getting onto him...I mean I feel like Hitler mom, but I want him to change...I want the additional comments that aren't required to end and I want him to quit tackling me like he did when he was 2 and I could handle it.

Is this normal or am I raising a freak of nature?

On a slightly different subject, I've noticed that when my kids start playing it's loud and wrestling (one boy and two girls)..and they ignore me when I tell them to stop. We're trying to not spank them...they've been spanked in the past, but unfortunately when my husband and I spank it's when we're really mad....so I'm working on a family calmness. I'm trying not to yell but I have to yell over their loudness.

I'm sure I'll get interesting suggestions but I would love to know if my boy is normal...I'll prepare for the worst though :)

Alison in KY

[Amy loves Bud]

Well, not being too experienced, as my oldest is just 9, I'll throw in my two pennies and you can use 'em or not.

My nine yr old is smaller for his age, and generally not too rough. But, I have noticed that when he and his sister are getting close to bedtime, the play starts getting rougher and more out of control. Since I noticed that connection, I have been able to head it off before it starts, and that is much easier than trying to reel it in. So maybe you can notice a connection with sleep, meals, schoolwork, etc., when the roughness begins, and try to head it off at the pass.

As for the attitude, I just wouldn't let it fly. I don't yell, and Bud doesn't yell, and we have never spanked. But we do not put up with that garbage for a second. If you cannot speak with kindness and civility to the people in your own family, well then, you don't get the privilege of being around them, or anyone else for that matter. You go to your room and be alone until you can figure out how to be pleasant. I have also noticed in my brother's family (big yellers) that the kids just tend to tune out the yelling because that's all it is - yelling. There is no follow through and they know it. I'm not sure if that is the case with you, but if it is, I say skip the yelling and just follow through - separate the nasty attitude from everyone else.

I don't think you have a freak of nature at all! I think he just needs to be reigned in. If you are doing isn't working, you need to change your approach. I hope this helps, even just a little bit.

[Whisperlily]

Wow, that's a big boy! My DS will be 9 one week from today and he weighs 62lbs. About half what your DS weighs.

I think part of what happens when a child is big for their age, is that people forget how old they really are, and expect them to act the age of someone who is typically that size.

My son is going through a stage that may or may not be similar. He's starting to use phrases he hears adults using. I heard him say something quite sarcastic the other day, but I could see the look on his face... as though he thought it was funny and "grown up" to talk that way. I called him on it, and we talked about the way it *sounded.* He's still really learning how and when things are appropriate.

It sounds like you and your DH are on the right path, trying to model a less "reactive" way of parenting. It takes time. It takes time for you to learn new habits, and it takes time for it to show up in your kids' behavior. Stick with it. Make sure they know the boundaries. You'll get there.

[Jill, OK]

...I wouldn't say 'freak of nature', either, lol.

I may not be the best person to answer this, because I don't subscribe to a lot of the "That's just how boys are!" or, "That's just how (insert whatever age)-year-olds are!" trains of thought.

Now, I do think there are certain behavior traits that tend to show up more in boys, and I do think that there are certain ages (related to puberty) where some behavioral challenges might be linked in a small way to hormonal changes (less impulse control, more emotions, etc.)...

But I don't think that what you're describing falls into either of those categories.

Talking to your mother in the way you're describing shouldn't be allowed. Ignoring your mother telling you to "Knock it off" shouldn't be allowed. That said, I also don't believe in spanking in anger (you don't say how old your other children are, but I would also consider 8 a bit old for spanking).

Can you and your husband (or just you, if you're the one doing the bulk of the disciplining) figure out appropriate consequences, and enact them when you aren't obeyed?

An example: You ask for the horse show to be put back on. Ds says, "Horses are stupid." Well...he shouldn't be able to dis Mama, and still enjoy general company. I'd send him elsewhere, because everyone else deserves to be able to enjoy what's going on, without someone spoiling the atmosphere (I'd explain this to him, of course). Then I'd go have a chat with him later, privately, about what constitutes respectful and disrespectful.

You could give him examples of what some appropriate things to say would have been ("Well, I really don't like horse shows! I would like to watch something else"), and you could even come up with a code word to say, when you feel he's being disrespectful, so that he has a chance to apologize and stay in circulation.

But I'd be consistent about it.

The yelling and spanking in anger is inappropriate, but your feeling of being "Hitler Mom" likely isn't. You're just feeling the burn of having to stay on a child that has a bad habit, and it will feel like that until he comes through.

But if you're consistent about requiring him to show respect, and model it (be sure to point out to him when you're making a decision or saying something a certain way out of respect for him. Not because you're bragging, but because "respect" is kind of a vague term to kids), then I really do think he'll come around. I'd also not hesitate to dial back outside activities if he doesn't get this. In our house, you have to show respect to those in your house, before you get turned loose into the community at large. (Or if you're lashing out at siblings, maybe you've forgotten that...and need to stay home for a while, for a refresher course. :o)

((Hugs)) and sympathy...but I think you can turn this around.

[Amy in Orlando]

I agree with Jill. Consistency, while exhausting for you, is really the key. My kids end up in their room for stuff like this. But, their rooms are boring! No tv, no internet, nothing to make is somewhere they would want to spend a lot of time.

As far as the wrestling and aggressive stuff - can you help him find another outlet for all of that energy? Tae kwon do has been great for my sons to that end. I'd also sit your kids down at a calm time and tell them it is going to stop and "x" is going to happen if it doesn't. Let them know this is their first and only warning and have each child repeat back his/her version of what you just said.

Hang in there - you can do this.

[Mom2legomaniacs]

Yes, consistency it huge. If you waffle around, it will bite you back. Being consistent makes all the difference. Lots of heart to heart talks about expectations and consequences are vital as well. Good luck! You can do it!

[Jill, OK]

I should have clarified that I'm coming from a place where kids don't have much entertainment in their rooms, lol. Here, out in the common area is where the action is. :-)

Has anyone ever seen the cartoon where the Mom has a cardboard cutout with a tape playing? The mom is sunbathing in the backyard, while the kids sit at the table, and the cutout stands at the sink while the tape player repeats the same phrases, ad nauseum. In our house, it would look like...

"We don't hit; use your words. Okay, don't use words like that. Give that back to her. Don't give that to him. We don't hit; use your words..."

It's tiring, but there's no beating simple consistency.

[Denise in IN]

My older boys are 8 1/2 and 6 11/2. I would agree with what others have said about being consistent, not spanking, and the combo of giving consequence plus following up with talking about what's appropriate and why.

I've found that it's easier for me to be consistent with giving consequences when I don't always have to be thinking up a consequence. I don't necessarily have a specific consequence for each specific kind of offense, but if I have a list of possibilities in mind or on paper it's easier. Some things we use as consequences: time in their rooms (they don't like to miss out on the action), loss of screen time, work, sentences.

I find that when my boys are wound up, rowdy, or angry - basically the times that they're out of control (or borderline out of control), it works best for me to go to where they are and calmly talk to get their attention. If needed I will put my hands on their shoulders (or something along that line, but not a forceful action), just to help get their attention and help them calm down. I'm also working with them to respond to me the absolute first time I call their name (which they should be doing already, (sigh), but somehow we've gotten away from that).

Hang in there - I think it's very important at this age for boys to start learning to recognize when they're getting aggressive or out of control and control themselves. And it's crucial that he learns to respect your authorities and boundaries at this age or it will be a huge struggle once you get closer to the teen years.

[Sophia]

Given what you have said about his size and amount of energy, I think he would benefit from alot of outside time.
Send the three out for an hour long game of tag, or give him yardwork.
My ds is older, so I put him on the roof to clean gutters, but you get my drift...put that energy to good use!

The smart aleck remarks need to be nipped in the bud or you are going to really regret it in a few years. Come up with some system he understands, i.e. "every time you speak disrespectfully this is the consequence" then enforce it.

I think it was around that age that I had to tell ds he could not play with girls the way he played with boys.
This was difficult for him, because some girls would start the "physical" play, then cry when he responded in kind! Frustrating for me too, to be honest.
Anyway, dh and I explained he needed to act like a gentleman, and wrestling with girls just wasn't going to cut it...even if they did start it.

Something dh and I both wish we had started sooner, is sending ds off to work with dh as much as possible.
My dh is self-employed, so this may not work for you.
Try to increase the amount of time your dh and ds spend together and if you haven't already, read Bringing Up Boys by Dobson.
I refer to that book often for reassurance and guidance.

[Laura Corin]

How much exercise does he get? I have one energetic boy who tends to deal with the world physically. I find that an hour of good exercise a day helps him to keep his body under control, as well as his weight. It really seems to allow him to deal with impulses better, so we don't clash so much. He does Karate and rollerblading.

My other boy started to do the 'talking under his breath' thing. I told him that he should say it out loud or not at all. He's not ready for the open defiance of saying such things out loud, so he's stop saying them.

Best wishes

Laura

[Barb F. PA in AZ]

Was it this board that used to call it boot camp a long, long time ago? Tis a great concept. It's the opposite of "choose your battles". You single out the transgressing child and address every infraction Every Single Time. Nothing slides...it's consistency on steroids. No need to be harsh or vindictive--just stay on him like bees on daisies. Let him know each time his behavior is unacceptable and dole out the appropriate consequences. All kids accidentally mess up, but this boy is testing the bounds of your authority. Stand up to him now, or it will get much worse as he heads into his teens.

Boot camp generally only lasts a few days before you begin to see changes. Basically you are helping him to break ugly habits. If you let some things slide and not others you'll prolong the pain. It's funny, my 17yo is the one I've bootcamped most often over the years. As she grew older, it would take about 3 hours before she'd look at me and groan..."oh no, I'm in bootcamp, aren't I?" When he begins to come around and catch himself before he's nasty, or better still apologizes, that's the time to offer grace and compliments. Do it before then and he will likely see it as weakness.

Barb

[Danestress]

I agree that with a child who is larger than his age, it's easy to forget his age. He's pretty young still, and you must be patient with this boyish lack of physical self control. Try to remember that he's really still so little on the inside and he needs to know you love his rambunctious self.

I also agree with getting that energy channeled into exhausting physical activities.

I think a simply $5 whistle might be a big help to you - not if you use it constantly, but I you say "okay, if I blow a whistle you all freeze or else."

But ultimately, I think many boys have to figure out who is in charge of a household, and they have to figure it all out again when they become larger than one of the people who used to be 'Sheriff.' That happens with most boys around 12 or 13. When my son sprouted up taller than me, he had to sort of test things to see if that change the power dynamic. My MIL had warned me about this, said my DH did it too, and sort of guided me through it.

You have to figure out what the rules are, and why and whose in charge and why and how much, and you just project confidence about that. Consistency, confidence, love and grace but firmness. The day came when I had to decide that he was strong willed, but that I was going to be stronger and more willful in my house about the way I live. I was very very firm about how my son spoke to me. I couldn't stop him from saying the occasional rude/ugly/agitating thing, but I addressed it every. single. time.

So I guess basically I agree with the others. I think with boys, they need to know you love them to bits, and they need to know you are in charge. Even when they weigh 180 pounds and can eat an entire large pizza, which will happen before you know it!

[nestof3]

[QUOTE][Wow, that's a big boy! My DS will be 9 one week from today and he weighs 62lbs. About half what your DS weighs./QUOTE]

Mine will be 9 in October and weighs 50 pounds. Have you seen a pediatrician? Perhaps he has something overactive in him that is also contributing to his hyperactivity. Does he consume a lot of sugar and caffeine?

We have all boys (three of them), but haven't had that sort of behavior. We are not a big wrestling type family. I have to say our young ones will hit each other sometimes when they're fighting over something. Of course I step in and try to teach them how to solve a conflict, but overall, they are very gentle, calm boys.

I think it is good to teach boys how to be kind and gentle to women.

Sorry I don't have any advice.

[Barb F. PA in AZ]

I'm just wondering if I'm that bad of a parent or if it's the breed of boy. My 8 yr old, going on 9 in one month, is pretty big for his age. He's probably as tall as a 10 or 11 yr old and has a bit of a belly. He weighs about 120, although he doesn't look greatly overweight, he is a bit overweight.

Allison, I hope you don't mind if I address the above information. After thinking about it, even for an 11yo of average height, 120 pounds seems pretty seriously overweight. He'd have to be well over 5 feet tall...closer to 5-2 or 5-3 to be just a bit overweight. I know this seems unrelated, but you may want to check with his doctor or do some research yourself for health reasons. Here's a link to an article by Dr. Sears that mentions the average height (55 inches) and weight (80lbs) for an 11yo: http://www.parenting.com/Common/article.jsp?articleID=21333774&genID=4&typeID=940

and a place where you can calculate BMI for kids: http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/welcome/bmicalculator.html

As Dawn mentioned above, it could be that eating habits are contributing to the opposition. If the diet isn't great, behavior often follows. When you feel better, it's easier to act better.

Good luck!
Barb

[Remudamom]

I didn't read everything so I hope I'm not repeating.

My boys are rough and tumble. Sometimes when they have a hard time stopping wrestling or whatever I kick them out of the house. Lock the door behind them. If it's cold enough they remember to stop.

Really, my boys get a lot of physical exercise working on the ranch, so most of the time they've had enough to do with out wrestling or rough housing. They are 13 now, and pretty sedate after a couple of hours of choring.

[Scarlett]

I wanted to chime in about the weight thing, although I know it isn't your main problem. My ds just turned 8 and is big for his age....he is 54 inches tall and weighs 67 pounds. He has a lean body type and looks thin, but still I think 120 pounds for a boy just a year older would be very overweight.

Also, dh and I both have had to reign ds in on the rough and tumble that was allowed when he was smaller. :) Especially dh...for instance he let ds jump up and down on his stomach until ds was at least 6!!!!! I kept telling dh that ds was going to really hurt him...give him a hernia or something, and finally dh was forced to stop. (that was all in play of course) Anyway, boys need A LOT of exercise to release that energy and of course he does need to know for a fact that you are the boss over him. Better to teach that lesson now than when he is 15.

[songbirdie]

The fact that he is not accepting instruction would be the biggest problem for me. I don't allow our children to "answer back" when they've been given an instruction, like you said "put it back on that horse show". If they don't respond with an agreeable "yes ma'am" they know that they will lose privileges. We live in the south and it's "yes ma'am", but where you live it may just be "okay mom", but I would certainly do some character work on accepting instruction. Outward compliance without inward acceptance isn't really obedience. If he can't just do what you ask him to without complaining or arguing or mumbling, then there is a clear problem of respect - whether he eventually changes the channel or not. My ds has had alot of trouble with exactly what you're talking about but we've done alot of talking and character work with respect and accepting instruction and it's been WELL worth the time and effort to teach character and not just expect outward obedience.

[songbirdie]

I just thought of a book title that really helped us in this area:
"Parenting is Heart Work". It has lots of practical and situation-oriented advice on how to not allow mumbling or talking-back.

[Peek a Boo]

whew. I don't envy you the size, but even my oldest sweet skinny boy needed a good workout. he does have a friend who is big for his age --definitely overweight, but even if he wasn't overweight, he'd still be a hefty boy.

lots of good advice already.....

We now have a nice-sized garden dug in our back yard. More cuz i needed to get a boy DIGGING SOMETHING than i needed a garden ;) Haven't planted anything yet, but that wasn't the point.....

good luck!

[Remudamom]

Yep, too old to spank imo, maybe a nice man to man talk with dad. Everytime you tell your son something he should feel the presence of his dad looming in the background. If it's coming from you it's coming from dad, and he might need to be reminded of that.

[Audrey]

Allison, I hope you don't mind if I address the above information. After thinking about it, even for an 11yo of average height, 120 pounds seems pretty seriously overweight. He'd have to be well over 5 feet tall...closer to 5-2 or 5-3 to be just a bit overweight. I know this seems unrelated, but you may want to check with his doctor or do some research yourself for health reasons. Here's a link to an article by Dr. Sears that mentions the average height (55 inches) and weight (80lbs) for an 11yo: http://www.parenting.com/Common/article.jsp?articleID=21333774&genID=4&typeID=940

and a place where you can calculate BMI for kids: http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/welcome/bmicalculator.html

As Dawn mentioned above, it could be that eating habits are contributing to the opposition. If the diet isn't great, behavior often follows. When you feel better, it's easier to act better.

Good luck!
Barb

:iagree: Was going to look up those charts to reference. I have a very tall 9 1/2 year old. He's 56 inches, but 75 pounds. People often think he's 11, 12 or so. He's also very energetic and needs that daily vigorous exercise session that Laura mentioned.

He focuses better and has a sunnier attitude the rest of the day if he has a good break outside in the middle of it.

Food issues come in all forms. It's amazing how those impossible-to-pronounce ingredients cause such diverse reactions in people.

I've known some people who have had good results in behaviour changes by going through a sort of elimination diet. I had seen a link posted on here a while back detailing how to do that. I can't seem to find it now.

Anyone else remember that one? It would be worth a try.

[Jenny in Florida]

I think part of what happens when a child is big for their age, is that people forget how old they really are, and expect them to act the age of someone who is typically that size.

I think this is very true. My son just turned 11, but he's always been tall for his age. He is almost five feet tall, which puts him in the 90th percentile for height. Although he hangs out quite a bit with boys who are a year or two older, he's usually the tallest in the group. He's also bright and articulate. So, people who don't know him well often get frustrated when he has the bad taste to behave like an 11-year-old kid.

I think it's also tough for some of these boys to "know their own strength." My son will roughouse with other kids--in a completely mutual, friendly way--and not have any idea that he might hurt others. He just doesn't get it.

In general, though, I agree with the others about setting firm, clear limits and enforcing them consistently. I've noticed with my son that you can't EVER let ANYthing slide, because it will come back to haunt you later: "But I did it yesterday and you didn't say anything!"

Argh.

Edited to Add: Here's a link to the chart I use to get a feel for my kids' heights and weights: http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/growth/growth_charts.html , just in case it might be helpful.

[Joanne]

On a slightly different subject, I've noticed that when my kids start playing it's loud and wrestling (one boy and two girls)..and they ignore me when I tell them to stop. We're trying to not spank them...they've been spanked in the past, but unfortunately when my husband and I spank it's when we're really mad....so I'm working on a family calmness. I'm trying not to yell but I have to yell over their loudness.

I think it's completely "normal" and expected for a young man who has not been consistently coached, admonished, and given the boundaries to set them up for success.

Here, we don't allow wrestling except with Dad or step dad. Wresting with peers or siblings nearly always was a disaster. My boys and my daycare boys have never been able to stop or regulate to make wrestling safe. I find other, more appropriate and less risky, ways for them to use their "boy energy". Contrary to another post, I do see and believe in gender and age differences.

For the under the breath comments, he would have either lost my company or his TV time for that day.

[Peek a Boo]

I don't allow our children to "answer back" when they've been given an instruction, like you said "put it back on that horse show". If they don't respond with an agreeable "yes ma'am" they know that they will lose privileges. We live in the south and it's "yes ma'am", but where you live it may just be "okay mom", but I would certainly do some character work on accepting instruction.

hee hee..... i had to sit down and chew out oldest a while back. knowing that i was going to get the justified excuses to why he did whatever he did, i prepped him with an ominous:

"In the manner of God speaking to Job, I will Speak and You will Listen, little Man. Say nothing except Yes Mom or i will shove a lightning bolt up your a$$."

{{we had just finished a unit on Job}}

that did it for us. :D