Please tell me what my son has !

[Euromom]

I know most of you are not specialists. But since you are on this board , I assume you have experience with special needs kids. I value your opinion.

I have a 4 yrs old (will be 5 in Oct.) . He has a little speech delay . He was evaluated at school and they said his language is at 3 years 11 months .
He will go in a special pre-k language class 3 times / week.
We went to a developmental specialist and he said my son has "social anxiety ". His IQ was 116 .

I am concerned because he seems to have comprehension issues. Like for ex when we read a book , he cannot answer to questions why and what happened in the story , unless he sees the picture. He is unable to understand stories unless it's a very short one , very simple and concrete.

But even more concerned I am that when we go to church he never associates with anyone , he says he is scared of children. He doesn't ignore them and likes to watch them play but he just doesn't play or talk with the children even when a little one is coming to him and asks him to play together. Also , in stores when he is asked his name , age, etc he just whispers and avoids eye contact or just gives a very short eye contact ... At home , he plays with his bro (5 1/2 ) and sis (3). He likes to line up cars in all different shapes and patterns . He is obsessed with snow and likes to toss up things to pretend it's snow ( leaves , sand , dirt , paper tower ripped in small pieces ) .

He is very loving with his baby sis (3 months old) and with me. He said he doesn't want to go to school and wants me to be his teacher . Academically he seems to be on track : he started to read short vowels words , can count to 30 and counts about 15 objects...but he cannot write anything yet , his fine motor skills seems behind.

I was suspecting him of autism or PDD-NOS but I am not sure...the doctors said it's not .
My husband wants me to homeschool but I am concerned that I will not know how to teach him ...I have a 5 yrs old and he is doing great , reads at 5th grade and does 2nd grade math , but I am afraid my little one needs more special education.

It's hard to explain but it seems he is not the "normal" child , yet I cannot tell what exactly is not normal...

Any suggestions ? Opinions?
Any books that might help me to address his speech delay and comprehension?

[Wyndie]

But even more concerned I am that when we go to church he never associates with anyone , he says he is scared of children. He doesn't ignore them and likes to watch them play but he just doesn't play or talk with the children even when a little one is coming to him and asks him to play together. Also , in stores when he is asked his name , age, etc he just whispers and avoids eye contact or just gives a very short eye contact ... At home , he plays with his bro (5 1/2 ) and sis (3).



With my son, who was previously dx with autism but is now recovered, this was extreme anxiety. The fear was very real and it sounds like it is for your son as well. We used many natural means to recover him but he still had lingering anxiety until we did neurofeedback for him.

Food and general toxic overload can be affecting many of the things you mentioned but that you can do something about regardless of a diagnosis. I would recommend you read Kenneth Bock's book Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies: The Groundbreaking Program for the 4-A Disorders http://www.amazon.com/Healing-New-Childhood-Epidemics-Groundbreaking/dp/0345494512/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249178277&sr=1-1

[Euromom]

Thank you so much ! I wll look at that book.
My son does have food intolerance . He had a blood test two yrs ago and they said he is allergic to milk , eggs and wheat. I put him on diet for two months but I didn't see any difference. Now he is eating anything and he doesn't complain of stomachache or any rashes. The dr said that if he doesn;t have any reactions it's ok to give him these foods.
It's too hard and too expensive to keep a dairy , eggs , gluten free diet but if it would help , I'd do it.

[Cindyg]

At age 4, mine was also afraid of other children, and never played with them. Come to think of it, he was afraid of everyone, adults too. He was also a late talker and could not express any feelings. (Couldn't say "sorry" or "thank you" or "I love you." Very odd.)

We had our son tested for autism twice, and both times the evaluator said no. Not that that helped with any of his issues.

We started seeing a DAN doctor and followed the protocol he recommended. At age 12, I'm happy to say, all of these issues (and many others that I haven't documented here) are long gone. I can't say they are gone *because* of the DAN protocol; but I can't say it wasn't because of the DAN protocol either.

If I were in your shoes (and I was), I would consult a DAN doctor.

[priscilla]

May I ask what protocols were used that helped your dc? Did you use chelation, diet, or vitamins or a combination of all three? I appreciate any specifics and I am sorry I do not mean to hijack this thread.:blushing:

[LizzyBee]

My husband wants me to homeschool but I am concerned that I will not know how to teach him ...I have a 5 yrs old and he is doing great , reads at 5th grade and does 2nd grade math , but I am afraid my little one needs more special education.



You will understand your son better than anyone else. Even if you feel like you are finding your way in the dark, your son will most likely do better at home than in school. I didn't understand my middle dd and I made some mistakes with her, but when her audiologist told me that she was doing so well because she was homeschooled, I knew the struggle was worthwhile.

[Beth in OH]

But even more concerned I am that when we go to church he never associates with anyone , he says he is scared of children. He doesn't ignore them and likes to watch them play but he just doesn't play or talk with the children even when a little one is coming to him and asks him to play together. Also , in stores when he is asked his name , age, etc he just whispers and avoids eye contact or just gives a very short eye contact ... At homehow to teach him ...I have a 5 yrs old and he is doing great , reads at 5th grade and does 2nd grade math , but I am afraid my little one needs more special education.

I'm going to throw out the possibility that your child is an introvert by nature and that this contributes to his social anxiety. Introverts need varying degrees of "alone time" to recharge, and many introverts can be (although are not necessarily) extremely shy. Especially if you are an extrovert by nature, it could help a lot for you to learn how introverts process the world. We are neurologically just wired differently, and may have very different social needs than extroverts.

Here is a book recommendation for you: http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Gifts-Introverted-Child-Extroverted/dp/0761135243/ref=pd_sim_b_5

I've not read this particular book, but I have read the Introvert Advantage, by the same author, and it resolved many long-standing misunderstandings between my husband and myself. I highly recommend this author.

Beth

[8FillTheHeart]

We went to a developmental specialist and he said my son has "social anxiety ". His IQ was 116 .



When the dr said he was not on the spectrum, did he make that based on thorough testing or based on surveys and observation? I ask b/c we spent yrs with wrong diagnoses with our ds b/c the appropriate testing was dismissed by drs who "knew" what it was w/o testing......and in reality they were simply wrong.

When our ds was finally tested, his IQ scores were all over the place......very high scores on "subject or content" tests (around 118-120) but extremely low on processing speeds (around 59!!!! for both visual and auditory processing)

If your ds has had thorough testing and with an IQ of 116 w/o huge discrepancies, I would say your drs are trying to frame a diagnosis on appropriate knowledge. However, if the testing is limited (our ds had numerous tests) and his IQ shows gaps, some of his responses might be better explained by a different diagnosis.

FWIW......diet did not affect our ds's behavior at all.

[TraceyS/FL]

You will understand your son better than anyone else. Even if you feel like you are finding your way in the dark, your son will most likely do better at home than in school. I didn't understand my middle dd and I made some mistakes with her, but when her audiologist told me that she was doing so well because she was homeschooled, I knew the struggle was worthwhile.

:iagree: I keep getting told we have made the progress we have with her issues because she is being homeschooled.

It's not always easy, but i know right now it's the right place for her to be learning.

:grouphug: Hopefully you can get some answers.

[Cindyg]

May I ask what protocols were used that helped your dc? Did you use chelation, diet, or vitamins or a combination of all three? I appreciate any specifics and I am sorry I do not mean to hijack this thread.:blushing:

We never did the diet. A DAN doctor has tests that will tell you whether or not your child can digest gluten and casein. We did do enzymes for quite a while to be safe.

We did chelation and are still doing the supplements. (It's been six years now.) We also did 3 years of OT.

The bottom line is -- the doctor will customize the program for your child's needs. Like I said, I can't be SURE that DAN is what worked for us. But we don't have any of these issues anymore.

FWIW, we use Dr. Bradstreet's office in Melbourne, FL. They can work with you long distance. (We don't live in Florida.)

Best wishes.

[Rebecca VA]

My daughter, who's now 12, had many of those same symptoms. She was a very late talker. She figured out the phonics rules and could read beautifully *years* before she could talk in sentences and hold a conversation. She didn't seem to understand what we were saying to her for the longest time (maybe around 5-1/2 or 6?). She would line her toys up, and that seemed to be the extent of how she played.

The weird thing was, though...she was really smart and had an incredible memory. She picked up phonics after just a few lessons and seemed to just know how to read anything. She has never had a moment's trouble with any math or logic problem in all these years. She can sight-read any piece of music and play it beautifully, starting from her first piano lesson when she was six. She has always been able to give excellent narrations. Her IQ is quite high.

OK, those are the positives. Here are some negatives: She often had comprehension problems, especially when she was younger. For example, you couldn't ask her: "Why do you think the Rose Red and Snow White felt sorry for the bear?" She would just look blank and say she didn't know. She couldn't imagine why. She still has trouble imagining things and coming up with alternate scenarios. I have to make most of her decisions for her, because she can't make a decision. She's getting better, but she still isn't on par with her agemates. She stutters sometimes, and she tends to be a little uptight when she talks, giving points (a), (b), and (c) on everything, as though she's thinking in outlines.

Oh, and her motor skills were very much behind as well. When she was a preschooler, she wanted me to hold her and carry her around all.the.time. I took her to occupational therapy, and the best thing she got out of it was that the therapist wouldn't take "no" for an answer. She was forced to jump off barrels, climb through dark tunnels, etc. When she was four, I put her in ballet as a sort of group occupational therapy -- she still takes ballet, and it has helped her coordination tremendously.

Back then I thought she was a little behind, but I always had a feeling that she would be all right. I just wasn't that concerned. She is a little more concrete than other children, but that's just her. It isn't fatal. She thinks like an engineer rather than a poet. But she has many, many academic and personal strengths that more than compensate for her weaknesses.

[Rebecca VA]

I wanted to add something to what I wrote yesterday. Have you read Thomas Sowell's book "Late-Talking Children?" I read it when my daughter was four. It seemed to describe her so well. The book said there is a subset of children who talk late, sometimes very late, but who have perfectly normal (or above-normal) intelligence. They tend to be very good in math, music, and memory (meaning, obviously, that they memorize well). Family members of these children are often engineers, musicians, mathematicians, pilots, accountants, or other numbers-oriented people.

I could clearly see that trait in my child. I knew I couldn't do a lot to force her to talk or to change the way her brain was wired, but I did try to challenge her more intellectually. I spent more time reading and explaining things to her without expecting much response from her. I talked to her constantly, again without putting pressure on her to say much. I gave her lots of "input" without forcing her to produce "output." I began to teach her phonics, but she only needed a few lessons total, ever. She was an early reader, but she didn't seem interested in reading, and she hardly seemed to understand what she read. I had to keep explaining things to her. As she got a little older, I would ask her comprehension and "thought" questions, and I'd help her with the answers. I *still* do that, and she's 12 years old. Amazingly, though, she took the WISC-IV IQ test a couple of years ago, and her verbal comprehension was in the high 140s.

She is a pretty normal 12-year-old girl now. She is quite feminine; she loves to sew, knit, crochet, and do ballet. She's an excellent pianist (though she's so amazingly good at sight-reading that she doesn't have a lot of patience with perfecting her songs). She got her first babysitting job last weekend and came home with $30 and lots of hilarious stories about what happened on the job. She still tends to talk a little too loudly, and she can't quite figure out the whole "mean girl" thing (she keeps reading the American Girl advice books, hoping to find a formula that will make her successful in every social situation). But, you know, I'm SO GLAD I didn't try to have a label slapped on her at an early age. She developed at her own timetable, and she just needed our love and acceptance.

[Verity]

We never did the diet. A DAN doctor has tests that will tell you whether or not your child can digest gluten and casein. We did do enzymes for quite a while to be safe.

We did chelation and are still doing the supplements. (It's been six years now.) We also did 3 years of OT.

The bottom line is -- the doctor will customize the program for your child's needs. Like I said, I can't be SURE that DAN is what worked for us. But we don't have any of these issues anymore.

FWIW, we use Dr. Bradstreet's office in Melbourne, FL. They can work with you long distance. (We don't live in Florida.)

Best wishes.

What is DAN?

[grace'smom]

Your son sounds a lot like my daughter. She is 4 also and bright, but has a slower processing time, especially for auditory information. She also did not speak in public for a long time. She is in speech therapy and OT now for sensory and receptive language problems, and looking back I think she was very anxious because she couldn't process all the signals coming into her body. Most people talked TOO fast for her. Way too fast. Imagine hearing a foriegn language that you barely understand, and having people look at you as if you should understand and asking you questions. It would make you anxious too. When the speech therapist told me to slow down my speech to an almost silly low speed, my relationship with my daughter changed almost overnight. And as she relaxed, her processing speed improved as well in conjunction with therapy. It will always be slower, and she would be very troubled in a classroom environment with all the noise, but her social skills have improved a great deal since she started being able to understand the world around her better. It seems very simple, but a slow auditory processing time combined with sensory issues can mimic autism, and we have very often heard people wonder if she has autism, as well as people who said there is no way she has autism. We're still unclear on that, but she has improved in her relationships with peers. She makes one on one friendships well, but even in a small group she cannot keep up because she can't hear. Well, she can "hear" but she can't "process" under the strain of several voices, and more activity going on. And it does SEEM as if she is uninterested in the other children, but once there's less noise and she can handle it she shows interest again. She also has fascination with certain sensory experiences, not so much snow but she'll play with playdough, finger paint and water in her fingers for long periods. She sometimes will draw the same picture over and over. But it's not all the time.

I am not sure, I don't even know if my daughter might be high functioning autistic or aspergers rather than auditory processing disordered, but if she is high functioning I am not sure that label would give us any more information about how she functions than we have now. She is allergic to wheat, and when we challenged her on it last year she looked full fledged autistic without a doubt. When we took her back off of it she improved. But if we had taken her in for testing that month she would have had the dx for sure.

Because so many of these disorders look so similar you probably have a lot of reading to do! Try looking at "When The Brain Can't Hear" and "Like Sound Through Water." They talk about auditory problems.

Also, as an experiment, try slowing down your speech to almost comically slow for a few days, with a sing song sort of tone. See if he understands you better. I warn you that this will feel REALLY strange at first, and embarrassing to do in front of other people, but if it helpful you will know it very soon and it will be worth it.

But in any case, know that you are not alone out there. There are a lot of us who have kids that don't "fit" into a box or a label. It can seem a scary no-man's land. I wish I had a box for my child. A manual or a picture of her brain that said "this is it." There isn't one. But I swear that sensory processing disorders and autism are part of a bigger picture. Like the 4A disorders the other person was talking about. Our knowledge has only hit the beginning of this puzzle. I keep searching for my daughter's box, a label that will tell me what to do to help her, but I've found that I'm just wading through it as best I can and hoping things work out for the best.

[5knights3maidens]

Thank you so much ! I wll look at that book.
My son does have food intolerance . He had a blood test two yrs ago and they said he is allergic to milk , eggs and wheat. I put him on diet for two months but I didn't see any difference. Now he is eating anything and he doesn't complain of stomachache or any rashes. The dr said that if he doesn;t have any reactions it's ok to give him these foods.
It's too hard and too expensive to keep a dairy , eggs , gluten free diet but if it would help , I'd do it.

Actually to be honest, If he has been tested and found to be allergic he needs to be off those foods. (My opinion;)) You have to be on the gluten free diet for a long time. Also, for example, you can't make his toast in the same toaster with yours etc. Just because he isn't getting the aches or rashes doesn't mean he is free from being allergic or intolerant. It is very expensive but it's worth it. Hope this helps. :)

[tarana]

I know most of you are not specialists. But since you are on this board , I assume you have experience with special needs kids. I value your opinion.

I have a 4 yrs old (will be 5 in Oct.) . He has a little speech delay . He was evaluated at school and they said his language is at 3 years 11 months .
He will go in a special pre-k language class 3 times / week.
We went to a developmental specialist and he said my son has "social anxiety ". His IQ was 116 .

I am concerned because he seems to have comprehension issues. Like for ex when we read a book , he cannot answer to questions why and what happened in the story , unless he sees the picture. He is unable to understand stories unless it's a very short one , very simple and concrete.

But even more concerned I am that when we go to church he never associates with anyone , he says he is scared of children. He doesn't ignore them and likes to watch them play but he just doesn't play or talk with the children even when a little one is coming to him and asks him to play together. Also , in stores when he is asked his name , age, etc he just whispers and avoids eye contact or just gives a very short eye contact ... At home , he plays with his bro (5 1/2 ) and sis (3). He likes to line up cars in all different shapes and patterns . He is obsessed with snow and likes to toss up things to pretend it's snow ( leaves , sand , dirt , paper tower ripped in small pieces ) .

He is very loving with his baby sis (3 months old) and with me. He said he doesn't want to go to school and wants me to be his teacher . Academically he seems to be on track : he started to read short vowels words , can count to 30 and counts about 15 objects...but he cannot write anything yet , his fine motor skills seems behind.

I was suspecting him of autism or PDD-NOS but I am not sure...the doctors said it's not .
My husband wants me to homeschool but I am concerned that I will not know how to teach him ...I have a 5 yrs old and he is doing great , reads at 5th grade and does 2nd grade math , but I am afraid my little one needs more special education.

It's hard to explain but it seems he is not the "normal" child , yet I cannot tell what exactly is not normal...

Any suggestions ? Opinions?
Any books that might help me to address his speech delay and comprehension?

Sounds like my twins. They were extremely shy & would hide behind me if someone talked to them at a store. If someone touched them they would push away & begin to cry. They were terrified of little boys and big men. One was advanced in her speech and the other was recieveing speech therapy. She could not even express if she needed something. Her twin could decode sometimes. Other times it would be yelling and screaming for a long time. They would cling to me ALL the time! Only my mom could babysit them not exceeding an hour. So they started off preschool at 3yrs in a special needs school. By the time they were 5 & started Kin they were still shy. Now they are 7 & pretty outgoing but once in a while the shyness crops up.
May be the slight delay in speech could be adding to his anxiety and shyness.

[Wyndie]

DAN is a group of doctors trained in alternative ways to help treat children with autism. It stands for Defeat Autism Now and you can learn more about it at www.defeatautismnow.com (http://www.defeatautismnow.com) We used a DAN in the recovery of our children as well.

[debbiedoestyping]

My daughter, who's now 12, had many of those same symptoms. She was a very late talker. She figured out the phonics rules and could read beautifully *years* before she could talk in sentences and hold a conversation. She didn't seem to understand what we were saying to her for the longest time (maybe around 5-1/2 or 6?). She would line her toys up, and that seemed to be the extent of how she played.

The weird thing was, though...she was really smart and had an incredible memory. She picked up phonics after just a few lessons and seemed to just know how to read anything. She has never had a moment's trouble with any math or logic problem in all these years. She can sight-read any piece of music and play it beautifully, starting from her first piano lesson when she was six. She has always been able to give excellent narrations. Her IQ is quite high.

OK, those are the positives. Here are some negatives: She often had comprehension problems, especially when she was younger. For example, you couldn't ask her: "Why do you think the Rose Red and Snow White felt sorry for the bear?" She would just look blank and say she didn't know. She couldn't imagine why. She still has trouble imagining things and coming up with alternate scenarios. I have to make most of her decisions for her, because she can't make a decision. She's getting better, but she still isn't on par with her agemates. She stutters sometimes, and she tends to be a little uptight when she talks, giving points (a), (b), and (c) on everything, as though she's thinking in outlines.

Oh, and her motor skills were very much behind as well. When she was a preschooler, she wanted me to hold her and carry her around all.the.time. I took her to occupational therapy, and the best thing she got out of it was that the therapist wouldn't take "no" for an answer. She was forced to jump off barrels, climb through dark tunnels, etc. When she was four, I put her in ballet as a sort of group occupational therapy -- she still takes ballet, and it has helped her coordination tremendously.

Back then I thought she was a little behind, but I always had a feeling that she would be all right. I just wasn't that concerned. She is a little more concrete than other children, but that's just her. It isn't fatal. She thinks like an engineer rather than a poet. But she has many, many academic and personal strengths that more than compensate for her weaknesses.

Your DD sounds like my DS! He could read before he could communicate verbally in sentences. My DS has been dx with ADHD (and he has behaviours that go along with that dx) but he also has social issues and reading comprehension issues that make me feel sure that there is also something else going on. I've had him assessed 3x over the years for Autism/Asperger's and been told that he has no PDD. I've recently come across Nonverbal Learning Disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_learning_disorder) and in a lot of ways it fits my DS' issues. He, however was not an early talker which seems to be one of the criteria.

[TraceyS/FL]

Your DD sounds like my DS! He could read before he could communicate verbally in sentences. My DS has been dx with ADHD (and he has behaviours that go along with that dx) but he also has social issues and reading comprehension issues that make me feel sure that there is also something else going on. I've had him assessed 3x over the years for Autism/Asperger's and been told that he has no PDD. I've recently come across Nonverbal Learning Disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_learning_disorder) and in a lot of ways it fits my DS' issues. He, however was not an early talker which seems to be one of the criteria.

Have you ever had him tested for Auditory Processing Disorder?

The APD and ADHD symptoms overlap (discovered it my reading, and confirmed last week by the SLP doing my DD's eval). There is a part of ADHD that makes it hard to understand social cues, and changes how teh brain hears words. The author of the book below suffers herself from that type of APD and tells her story in the intro. It was interesting! (that might be on the excerpt at amazon)

You might check if your library has "When the Brain Can't Hear" by Terry Bellis.

[debbiedoestyping]

Have you ever had him tested for Auditory Processing Disorder?

The APD and ADHD symptoms overlap (discovered it my reading, and confirmed last week by the SLP doing my DD's eval). There is a part of ADHD that makes it hard to understand social cues, and changes how teh brain hears words. The author of the book below suffers herself from that type of APD and tells her story in the intro. It was interesting! (that might be on the excerpt at amazon)

You might check if your library has "When the Brain Can't Hear" by Terry Bellis.

I'll look into that book! My DS has an appt. with the ped. in Sept. and I'll mention both Nonverbal Learning Disorder and Auditory Processing Disorder to her and see what she thinks.

[TraceyS/FL]

ACK, this shouldn't be, "There is a part of ADHD that makes it hard to understand social cues...", but
"There is a part of APD that makes it hard to understand social cues..."

All these A things!

Auditory Processing Disorder is one of those things that isn't totally accepted yet... so don't be surprised if you meet a wall. But read about it....

I found this site had a great list of testers - in fact, i just emailed one at the University to see about further testing for my DD.

http://pages.cthome.net/cbristol/capd-idx.html