What is required to make homeschooling "legal" anyway?

[PinkInTheBlue]

We began our homeschooling journey in NC. They have laws and steps to follow and expectations are pretty clear. Here in AL though, homeschooling is not addressed at all, in any way. The only ways covered in laws is public school, church schools and private schools.

I don't see how that would make homeschooling "illegal" just because it isn't covered. Does CA have a statement in their laws that actually SAY "homeschooling children is prohibited"? Does the absence of addressing homeschooling make it illegal?

However, side topic, because I completely disagree with others interpretations of AL law and how that affects homeschoolers I am in a complete minority with others. Just because I'm interpreting how I, as a homeschooling family, fit into the law differently than the vast majority, does that make me illegal? It isn't remotely addressed in law, so it's open to interpretation.

Thoughts at all?

[LizzyBee]

I don't see how that would make homeschooling "illegal" just because it isn't covered. Does CA have a statement in their laws that actually SAY "homeschooling children is prohibited"? Does the absence of addressing homeschooling make it illegal?

When something is not addressed by statute, that activity is not considered illegal. However, it is open to interpretation by the courts, because the US is a common law country in which judges are authorized to make law where none exists. If there is no statute that addresses homeschooling, but there is a court case, the court's ruling is the law within the court's jurisdiction. Outside the court's jurisdiction, the case is available for reference, but it is not a binding precedent.

Now that there is a published ruling against homeschooling in CA, that ruling can be used within that court's jurisdiction to force other homeschoolers into public schools. Will it be used this way? Probably in some instances, but most likely not in a mass movement, especially since the governor has spoken out against the ruling. Unfortunately, the ruling came from an appeals court; appeals courts have broader jurisdiction than lower courts, since several lower courts will be included within the jurisdiction of each appeals court. I don't know the particulars of the CA system, so I don't know whether the ruling is binding in the entire state or only a portion of the state.

[Beth in Central TX]

Without specific recognition, homeschools can be challenged by state educational agencies. In Texas, home education had been a normal mode of education since its inception. However, in 1981 the Texas Education Agency (TEA) decided that they wanted to regulate homeschooling. The Leeper vs. Arlington ISD case was filed, and in 1987, homeschools were recognized as private schools. This decision was appealed by the TEA and upheld in 1994. Today, the only requirement for a homeschool to be a legal entity is bona fide instruction that includes reading, spelling, grammar, mathematics, and good citizenship.

[Mama Lynx]

We began our homeschooling journey in NC. They have laws and steps to follow and expectations are pretty clear. Here in AL though, homeschooling is not addressed at all, in any way. The only ways covered in laws is public school, church schools and private schools.

I don't see how that would make homeschooling "illegal" just because it isn't covered. Does CA have a statement in their laws that actually SAY "homeschooling children is prohibited"? Does the absence of addressing homeschooling make it illegal?

However, side topic, because I completely disagree with others interpretations of AL law and how that affects homeschoolers I am in a complete minority with others. Just because I'm interpreting how I, as a homeschooling family, fit into the law differently than the vast majority, does that make me illegal? It isn't remotely addressed in law, so it's open to interpretation.

Thoughts at all?

The catch is the compulsory education law. Your state requires students to attend school between certain ages. If the state does not recognize that they are attending school, you are violating the compulsory attendance laws and are truant. That it how it can be illegal.

As for interpretation, well ... even the courts interpret the law. Does your differing interpretation make you illegal? No. However, the courts get the last say. If *they* decide you're violating the law, you're in trouble.

[snickelfritz]

Oklahoma Constitution Article XIII

Section 4 Compulsory school attendance

The Legislature shall provide for the compulsory attendance at some public or other school, unless other means of education are provided, of all the children in the State who are sound in mind and body, between the ages of eight and sixteen years, for at least three months in each year. (Emphasis added.)

The "UNLESS OTHER MEANS OF EDUCATION ARE PROVIDED" part is what is important for us.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Well, let me add a bit more clarification and you give me your opinions, please.

Alabama laws only discuss requirements for public schools, private schools, church schools and qualified tutors. Homeschools simply aren't mentioned in any direction. So, what most here have done is agree to the rules a church sets down and pay their fee in order to file "under" them as a church school or individuals have created "church schools" and charged people to file "under" them.

Here's my two issues: the churches and individuals that do it almost all have this list of what tests you have to take, what curriculum you have to use, how often you have to go to church, you must enroll with HSLDA, you must submit your grades, test, plans, etc, and on and on. Not to mention they charge you roughly between $50 to a few hundred dollars. Some provide additional events for, usually, additional costs.

The only thing require from a church school is a simple form submitted to the DOE/Superintendent of Education stating your school and your student and ages. That's it. No grades, tests, plans, curriculum, etc Another thing too, if the DOE/Super. has a problem with you and your homeschool, they don't go to the "church school" and they handle it for you. If there's a problem, they'll be knocking on your door. If you hand in your form to your church school and they don't submit it, it's you that is responsible.

Other issue: who decides what a church is? I did read this on another site, so this is an opinion I actually acquired from someone else. The law doesn't seem to lay down in exact, requiring detail what makes a church have to be a church. I'm no longer a Southern Baptist, nor nondenominational, nor Catholic, nor etc. If I maintain my current opinion I'll NEVER be a Christian that will ever "fit" into any pigeon holed description well enough to go to their church. Therefore, my children will not either. I believe even if you do go to church the spiritual education your children should receive should mostly or completely come from you and home. If you believe in a judgment you don't believe you'll stand in front of God and say "I'm sorry they didn't know more about You but the church just didn't teach them enough.".

SO, if I church is about spiritual instruction and education, that's what my home is about; therefore my home is my church. I AM a church school. Follow my logic? If you disagree, why? I'd like to know. (Keep it to the homeschooling legalities of it, not your opinion of my spiritual life, please)

Sorry for the longest post I've ever written, but if any of you read it, I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks!

[Mama Lynx]

On the surface, I do agree with you.

However, if I were you I would comb through the text of the laws yourself. Read ALL the pertinent parts of the education code, and then seek out any code dealing with establishment of churches.

I'm not at all familiar with Alabama laws, but those sound awful.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Well, I guess what is most annoying to me is the liberty that the church schools take in basically creating their own laws. There is NO law. There is NO requirement above submitting this form.

I get great responses from people when I say we homeschool 99% of the time. My trouble is when other homeschoolers around here ask what church school we use and I say that we are a church school and submit our own form. They are beside themselves and are looking over my shoulder for the police to come swooping down any moment. Ugh! :rolleyes:

[Georgia in NC]

Well, I guess what is most annoying to me is the liberty that the church schools take in basically creating their own laws.

Well just so you don't feel alone, haha, since I've been here in NC I've seen quite a lot of that going around here too. Not church schools, of course, but the state group and lots of local groups spread the most erroneous cr*p about things that are NOT in the state laws (or statutes or whatever they are called).

The Dept of Ed also does a great job here of intimidating people and trying to require more than the laws state, while being all mealy-mouthed about it. ("It's just a suggestion...") Pretty mind boggling actually.

It's like some homeschoolers here have a true spirit of fear about THE LAW.

Weird. The only thing I miss about NH is the way most hsers seemed to know the regs and didn't take any cr*p about them... :)

Hope ya get to AZ where the laws are sweeter, or so I've heard, lol!
georgia

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, I think it's open, and I think that's how CA has gotten by all these years. But then when you get a judgment interpreting past case law to indicate specifically that it is NOT legal, someone has to challenge that and get it straightened out. They're reaching back all the way into the 50's and 60's for these rulings. CA statutes have been amended since then, and there are several options under which hs's there operate, but evidently none of them specifically include the word "homeschools" in any portion of their language or commentary.

So AL may also be okay until a similar situation should arise there. Here in KY, we have a statute that specifically states that "homeschools are to be considered private schools". Then we're further covered under the private school statutes.

Regena

[Cadam]

Does anyone file as a private school instead of a church school? Couldn't you just do that? In CA that is what they are doing and what the judge said wouldn't fly.

I don't think there has to be homeschool laws for homeschooling to be legal but here they have ben beneficial. Because we are homeschoolers, and not private schoolers, we have access to any sports or classes we may wish to take in the ps w/o having to enroll full-time. Kids in a private school can't do that. I love our laws! :)

[gardenschooler]

Jessica, I've heard some strange things about the church 'umbrella' schools in AL, and from what you've said, it seems to be true. That seems like a lot of personal extras added in (how often you go to church? Approved curriculum? Weird!). What do secular homeschoolers in AL do?

And why don't more people just register with the DOE? What was your motivation for not doing so? Since you register as your own church school, this part (below, copied from HSLDA's AL laws) doesn't make you even a little bit nervous? I don't disagree with what you're doing, but I'm wondering what you could do to qualify as a church in case you were ever challenged.

Home schools qualify as church "schools ... operated as a ministry of a local church, group of churches, denomination, and/or association of churches on a nonprofit basis which do not receive any state or federal funding."

I know that here in TN, even most secular homeschoolers will register with a church-related school simply because it's potentially less hassle, and there is no required testing. Those that register with the school board have to take the TCAP in 5th grade - which is not a 'norm-referenced', but content specific, so you'd have to follow the TN curriculum to a certain extent (which has one mixed up history sequence, IMO).

But the requirements in our umbrella schools are next to nothing - curriculum plan (not subject to approval), grades twice a year, attendance for 180 days, and a pretty low fee. HomeLife doesn't even require a SOF. Only one that I know of (Faith Heritage Academy) requires yearly testing.

I think it's just awful that you have to jump through such crazy hoops in AL. Hasn't someone started a church school without all that personal interference? What do people do in AL, if they don't want to join a church school that tells them they have to be a member of HSLDA (or any of the other requirements)? Surely you're not the only one who has a problem with this.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Jessica, I've heard some strange things about the church 'umbrella' schools in AL, and from what you've said, it seems to be true. That seems like a lot of personal extras added in (how often you go to church? Approved curriculum? Weird!). What do secular homeschoolers in AL do?

And why don't more people just register with the DOE? What was your motivation for not doing so? Since you register as your own church school, this part (below, copied from HSLDA's AL laws) doesn't make you even a little bit nervous? I don't disagree with what you're doing, but I'm wondering what you could do to qualify as a church in case you were ever challenged.

Home schools qualify as church "schools ... operated as a ministry of a local church, group of churches, denomination, and/or association of churches on a nonprofit basis which do not receive any state or federal funding."

I know that here in TN, even most secular homeschoolers will register with a church-related school simply because it's potentially less hassle, and there is no required testing. Those that register with the school board have to take the TCAP in 5th grade - which is not a 'norm-referenced', but content specific, so you'd have to follow the TN curriculum to a certain extent (which has one mixed up history sequence, IMO).

But the requirements in our umbrella schools are next to nothing - curriculum plan (not subject to approval), grades twice a year, attendance for 180 days, and a pretty low fee. HomeLife doesn't even require a SOF. Only one that I know of (Faith Heritage Academy) requires yearly testing.

I think it's just awful that you have to jump through such crazy hoops in AL. Hasn't someone started a church school without all that personal interference? What do people do in AL, if they don't want to join a church school that tells them they have to be a member of HSLDA (or any of the other requirements)? Surely you're not the only one who has a problem with this.

If I lived in AL, I would have to deliberately lie to sign a statement of faith, and I would have to send money to a lobby organization that in some instances directly contradicted my beliefs. It's a direct violation of church and state. A person is required to be part of a "ministry" in order to exercise her rights as a parent to school her children.

And again, I have nothing against the leaders of HSLDA as people, but I must say, something tells me they're not going to be down there agitating to change *that* law. :rolleyes:

[LizzyBee]

Jessica,

I don't mean to sound paranoid, but in your situation, I would not post so much detail on the internet. If the wrong person were to stumble onto your post, you could become an AL test case. :eek:

[gardenschooler]

I guess I didn't read it carefully enough. I was assuming (and reading too quickly) that another option of registering with the DOE just as a regular homeschooler would be accepted (as it is in TN). I see now that that isn't even an option - only certified teachers can tutor.

So what Pam said is right - there is not any way at all to legally homeschool in AL without being affiliated with a church!?! Unreal.

Now I get what you're saying, Jessica. I'd become a church - but I would see what I needed to do to really have it legit.

[Laura Corin]

The "UNLESS OTHER MEANS OF EDUCATION ARE PROVIDED" part is what is important for us.

In England it's (paraphrase) 'in school or otherwise'.

Laura

[Ellie]

Well, I guess what is most annoying to me is the liberty that the church schools take in basically creating their own laws. There is NO law. There is NO requirement above submitting this form.

It's that way in California, too. There are many private schools which only enroll homeschooled children (Californians refer to them as Independent Study Programs, or ISPs, even though that term does not occur in the Ed. Code pertaining to private schools, only to public schools), and most of them add requirements, such as annual testing and minimum number of school days, not required by law. And they will charge big bucks for that. (Most of those also provide other services, such as field trips and academy days, too, so it isn't that they're charging big bucks and doing nothing for it.) When I started my own such school, I had to come with rules, too, but it was mainly for paperwork and stuff, not things like testing.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Even HSLDA states that "legal options" include "Establish and/or enroll in a church school" and the requirements for notice are "File a notice of enrollment and attendance with the local superintendent on a provided form (not required annually)".

Ok, here's my questions also:

#1 How does the law define a church? What about home churches? They are a church because they are a group of like-minded people meeting together regularly for religious instruction or worship.

#2 Just a number plucked out for demonstration but I'd say 50% of "church schools" (notice, they are church schools NOT umbrella schools) are established and run by individuals NOT churches. They charge, create their own set of rules and file just as if they were a church. Why is that ok, if you were to say mine is not?

By the way, I'm not afraid of being 'found out'. I'm by far not anywhere near the only to believe this way in AL or the only to operate this way. IF someone wanted to give me trouble, I believe so fervently in what I'm saying that I would go to the furtherest extent of the law to argue my point.

Thank you all for discussing this with me. I'm sure I'll get another phantom neg on my rep. For such an infrequent and agreeable poster, I already have two from this troll. How annoying! Any positives are happily received. ;)

[Alyce]

While I agree with you about the state organizations encouraging you to do more than is required, I must say that I've never had any problem with the Dept of Education. They don't even have jurisdiction over NC homeschoolers. If however you are talking about the Department of Non-Publice education I do have to say that recently they have begun to ask more than is in the law but I believe it is because people are actually doing what they request. The more people respond positively to their "requests" the bolder they get. We've homeschooled here for 9 years. It wasn't until the last 2 years the DNPE have asked for face to face meeting. When we first started they didn't ask for anything except you to file your intent to HS. They only had 2 workers in their offices so home visiting was out. A few years later they started sending out cards asking you if you're still homeschooling and for you to send iin your tests scores. I've always thrown those cards away. Now I feel because people actually did what the card suggested (NC law doesn't require you to send in your test results) they have begun asking for you to volunteer to meet them at a designated place and give them your tests results, attendance forms and if you want show them your curriculum. Too bad more people don't understand the law (which I find is mind boggling since it's laid out for you). I agree, the homeschoolers here are too scared of the "authorities".

[gardenschooler]

#1 How does the law define a church? What about home churches? They are a church because they are a group of like-minded people meeting together regularly for religious instruction or worship.

I think you have a very good point there. Home churches are becoming more and more common now, so your point on guiding your own children's spiritual instruction - well, why wouldn't that be a home church?

#2 Just a number plucked out for demonstration but I'd say 50% of "church schools" (notice, they are church schools NOT umbrella schools) are established and run by individuals NOT churches. They charge, create their own set of rules and file just as if they were a church. Why is that ok, if you were to say mine is not?

I was curious about this, and did a google search on 'church schools in AL'. There are scads of them!! Obviously, a lot of other people are doing the exact same thing you are. I don't see the difference. It seems there are a few church schools for other denominations and religions as well, not just Protestant.

[Cathy in SoCal]

LizzyBee asked how far the judgment went in regards to location in CA. We are in Orange County (and the decision was made in the San Fernando Valley) and have been told by a lawyer that it does not pertain to us here.

I had a friend get a knock on her door at 8:30 in the morning the day after the ruling by a (well meaning) neighbor telling her, "It is against the law to homeschool starting today!" Of course there is much confusion right now. But the ripple effects (neighbors, superintendents, police starting to take matters further without proper understanding) for now might prove more a problem. I certainly hope not.

Honestly, I'm not convinced we have a ton of allies within CA (although we were very happy to hear Schwarzenegger's comments yesterday), so the uprising from all over the country has been incredibly helpful to us. Thank you to all of you!

[Amy in NH]

Does anyone file as a private school instead of a church school? Couldn't you just do that? In CA that is what they are doing and what the judge said wouldn't fly.


Actually, my understanding of this case (which could be wrong) is that the family in question was registered with an umbrella school that *wasn't* registered as a private school with the state. Neither the family nor the umbrella school had filed paperwork with the State of CA. They were claiming that they didn't need to do so based on a "Constitutional right" to homeschool. The judge ruled that there isn't any such thing as a "Constitutional right" to homeschool ('tain't spelled out in either the US or CA Constitutions, that I know of). So in essence, *they weren't* operating as a private school. The only other option available to them under CA law was to use a certified tutor, which they weren't doing either. So they were breaking the law.

[LizzyBee]

Actually, my understanding of this case (which could be wrong) is that the family in question was registered with an umbrella school that *wasn't* registered as a private school with the state. Neither the family nor the umbrella school had filed paperwork with the State of CA.

At first, it seemed that people thought the umbrella school was not registered, but I read somewhere that it was. I think I also read an excerpt from the ruling where the judge talked about the children not physically going to the school for their education and how that was circumventing the legal requirements.