Put That In Writing, Jensens, IEW, Warriners, CW, or Writeshop for 9th?

[attachedto4]

Believe it or not, that is a narrowed down list. :rolleyes:

Which of these programs would you use with a 9th grader who needs to work on the basics? I don't care about creative writing right now, and would like ds to work on the basics of grammar (we'll use a separate grammar program), outlining, writing a paragraph, writing an essay, and writing a research paper. These are what I see as his weakest areas that are very important skills for college, and what I want to really focus on for highschool.

I've wasted this year on SL LA and am tired of programs that cloud everything with too much unnecessary stuff.

The description of Put That in Writing sounds exactly like what I wanted. But is each course a year long? One year for paragraphs and then one for essay writing? What hold sme back with this is that the description says students need to be strong in grammar, which my ds isn't. Would this be a better course to come back to next year after some intense grammar practice this year?

Jensens Format Writing- there are no samples available. Any experiences?

I had wanted to avoid the expense and video format of IEW but will go with it if that will be the most effective. I have ruled out inexpensive programs like Writing Strands and Wordsmith because they appear to focus more on creative writing.

I couldn't tell from the description how much composition is learned with Warriners, or if it's mostly grammar with a little creative writing mixed in?

I like Classical Writing, but am wondering if at this point it's just too much for ds and not enough "to the point". But maybe I'm wrong about that; I have almost purchased it several times because it does look very thorough.

Writeshop seems like it might be a little slow and doesn't really get to what we need until WS II. It seems like following WSI, WSII, and then Write at Home essay and research paper courses for 11th and 12th would get him there though. I plan on doing the Write at Home courses for 11th and 12th grade no matter what.

Help! I've been drowning in research and need to narrow it down further.

TIA!

[vmsurbat]

Just go the www.cbd.com and do a search for Jensen's Format Writing. You will be able to peruse the Table of Contents as well as the first 8 pages or so of the book. You will see that it is a very straight-forward presentation of putting together basic expository paragraphs and essays (including book reports).

I've tried many of the programs you listed and they are all good programs. For our family, what works depends on the child. Four of my five are "natural" writers--they have a good sense of style and expression and needed only nudges in the right direction. All the programs ended up being too restrictive for them--they didn't actually need a curriculum to work through--I just needed to learn how to "point out" the next thing in terms of improving their writing. The fifth is my language-challenged child--extremely concrete and laconic in all verbal expressions (although he does great with grammar since it is (mostly) logical.)

Jump Write In worked well (doesn't focus on "creative" writing, clear assignment format, worthwhile lessons) until we got to explanatory essays--the jump from paragraph writing to essay writing was too much. He could do it (knew all the steps in terms of brainstorming, basic research, writing one paragraph at a time) but needed more work on developing a flow within paragraphs and between paragraphs.

He is currently using Jensen's Format Writing which works on paragraphs for a long time and is *very* concrete in how to put together a paragraph (and later an essay). A natural writer would cringe at the rigidity--those who struggle are grateful to learn what to do..... My son is in the latter category...

Anyway, take a look at CBD to get make your own assessment of Format Writing.

HTH,

[kathleen]

Of the programs you mention, I would recommend Warriner's. I have the complete course (teacher's and student's texts) and I think they are wonderful. It covers both grammar and writing extensively. I have used all the others you mentioned to a greater or lesser extent, and I have beefs with them all! But I especially dislike Jensen's and WriteShop. Jensen's Format Writing might be okay if you just want your child to be able to write a bland 5-paragraph essay, but if you want the works, including grammar, then I would definitely go with Warriner's.

Oh. Ooops, I just noticed you plan to use a different grammar program. Well, hmmm...in that case, I still wouldn't go with either WriteShop, Jensen's, or PTIW. All of those programs are too limited for what you want.

My Warriner's is called "Composition and Grammar," so there is a definite emphasis on composition. And it is by no means mostly creative. The first section is on writing & thinking (sentence level), the second on writing paragraphs, then two chapters on expository compositions, and one on persuasive compositions. Finally, at page 210 is a chapter on imaginative and expressive writing, which includes personal narratives, stories, plays, and poetry. After that comes a chapter on writing a research paper, followed by writing business letters, and then effective diction.

Part Two is all on writing and revising sentences, and then finally, Part Three is on grammar, usage, and mechanics.

Christine Miller has a plan (http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/dialectic/writing.html)(sort of) for working through this text. Her plan begins in 7th grade, but you could easily adjust that by combining the sentences and paragraphs in one year, and then doing essays the next, followed by research papers. All along you can incorporate the grammar as well.

[Grace is Sufficient]

Believe it or not, that is a narrowed down list. :rolleyes:

The description of Put That in Writing sounds exactly like what I wanted. But is each course a year long? One year for paragraphs and then one for essay writing? What hold sme back with this is that the description says students need to be strong in grammar, which my ds isn't. Would this be a better course to come back to next year after some intense grammar practice this year?

TIA!

I don't think PTIW needs to be a full year course... Both levels use the early weeks to teach the writing, but the bulk of the course is practicing many different types of paragraphs/essays. We've just finished the first book. The early lessons were great (and I think a basic grasp of grammar is adequate -- you may need to help your student with the difference between phrases and clauses, though the text covers that.) I found a great improvement in my son's writing in just the first 10 weeks or so. The last 2/3 or more of the book is a three week cycle in several different types of paragraphs, as follows:

week 1: a lesson introducing the type of paragraph, and five days of work to write one.
week 2: a week spent preparing to write a paragraph of that type, followed by a half hour timed period to write it.
week 3: first, a paragraph in the text is 'graded' by the student, then the rest of the week is spent revising their paragraph from week 1.

We did not do all the weeks for each lesson, though we did do all the different types of paragraphs, though it is probably not necessary if one wants to get through it quickly.

Hope this helps.

[attachedto4]

Just go the www.cbd.com (http://www.cbd.com) and do a search for Jensen's Format Writing.


Thanks for that, being able to take a look is a big help.

[attachedto4]

Of the programs you mention, I would recommend Warriner's. I have the complete course (teacher's and student's texts) and I think they are wonderful. It covers both grammar and writing extensively. I have used all the others you mentioned to a greater or lesser extent, and I have beefs with them all! But I especially dislike Jensen's and WriteShop. Jensen's Format Writing might be okay if you just want your child to be able to write a bland 5-paragraph essay, but if you want the works, including grammar, then I would definitely go with Warriner's.

Oh. Ooops, I just noticed you plan to use a different grammar program. Well, hmmm...in that case, I still wouldn't go with either WriteShop, Jensen's, or PTIW. All of those programs are too limited for what you want.

My Warriner's is called "Composition and Grammar," so there is a definite emphasis on composition. And it is by no means mostly creative. The first section is on writing & thinking (sentence level), the second on writing paragraphs, then two chapters on expository compositions, and one on persuasive compositions. Finally, at page 210 is a chapter on imaginative and expressive writing, which includes personal narratives, stories, plays, and poetry. After that comes a chapter on writing a research paper, followed by writing business letters, and then effective diction.

Part Two is all on writing and revising sentences, and then finally, Part Three is on grammar, usage, and mechanics.

Christine Miller has a plan (http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/dialectic/writing.html)(sort of) for working through this text. Her plan begins in 7th grade, but you could easily adjust that by combining the sentences and paragraphs in one year, and then doing essays the next, followed by research papers. All along you can incorporate the grammar as well.


That was all extremely helpful. It was confusing the way I stated it, I had meant that I felt that my ds needs some intensive grammar this year so if I used a program like Writeshop I would add a grammar program. If it's already included in Warriner's than that might help simplify things.

I noticed you said you have the complete course, with student's and teacher's texts, and I see Warriner's at Seton with just what looks like student texts; would it still work for us without the teacher's text?

Thanks for the link, very helpful!

[attachedto4]

I don't think PTIW needs to be a full year course... Both levels use the early weeks to teach the writing, but the bulk of the course is practicing many different types of paragraphs/essays. We've just finished the first book. The early lessons were great (and I think a basic grasp of grammar is adequate -- you may need to help your student with the difference between phrases and clauses, though the text covers that.) I found a great improvement in my son's writing in just the first 10 weeks or so. The last 2/3 or more of the book is a three week cycle in several different types of paragraphs, as follows:

week 1: a lesson introducing the type of paragraph, and five days of work to write one.
week 2: a week spent preparing to write a paragraph of that type, followed by a half hour timed period to write it.
week 3: first, a paragraph in the text is 'graded' by the student, then the rest of the week is spent revising their paragraph from week 1.

We did not do all the weeks for each lesson, though we did do all the different types of paragraphs, though it is probably not necessary if one wants to get through it quickly.

Hope this helps.

This helped clarify that program for me, thank you!

[kathleen]

I noticed you said you have the complete course, with student's and teacher's texts, and I see Warriner's at Seton with just what looks like student texts; would it still work for us without the teacher's text?

Well, you wouldn't absolutely need the teacher's text, but it does contain an answer key to all the exercises, along with teaching suggestions, objectives, and a suggested course of study. I don't know anything about Seton--perhaps they have answer keys and a syllabus?

[Jenn in CA]

Seconding Warriner's for a good, basic foundation. We have found a few at book sales (no answer keys, but I haven't needed them) and just use whichever book is handy. I think we used the 10th grade one this year (for 8th & 9th graders). The thing that's been so helpful is their sentence to paragraph to essay approach like kathleen mentioned. No fluff, lots of good meaty (but not overwhelming) stuff.

We used this same 10th grade volume for solid, systematic formal grammar coverage in 6th grade as well. I like the older, 1960's language and typesetting myself too. :-)

[Gwen in VA]

If money is not a problem, buy multiple writing curricula! We have and use all of the ones you have listed except PTIW, which just didn't mesh with our style.

We use one program, for a while, then another. I get assignments from one and enrich with a similar assignment from another. I borrow, I combine, I flesh out.

I think the absolute most improtant thing with writing -- far more important than which curriculum you choose -- is just having the student write on a daily basis.

I'll crawl back under my morning paper now!