Advice on Literary Analysis Plan

[jibaker103]

My ds rising 8th grader only learned some basic literary terms in 6th and half of 7th grade ps. He is a voracious reader who reads way above grade level but hates narration, discussion, and thinking critically. He will tell me about the book he is reading if I ask but soon as I start asking him questions he shuts down and stares blankly at me. So I have determined I need to ease into a great books study and literary analysis gently so that he doesn't realize he's actually doing it, lol and I have time to learn it along with him. So here's the plan and please tell me what you think:

8th grade

Drawn into the Heart of Reading Level 6/7/8
Figuratively Speaking
9th grade

Teaching the Classics
Windows to the World
10th and 11th grade

Excellence in Literature and/or Lightning Literature
Study Guides such as Progeny Press, Garlic Press, Smarr
12th grade

Great Books Study
TWTM or Study Guides
Please tell me what you think. Will this work? Do I need to switch anything around? Add or delete anything? Pros and cons welcome.

I know that I will have to add in other components for a full English course but I'm still trying to figure that out.

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[Lori D.]

Sounds like a good (and gentle) plan to me. I think the thing that will work best in your plan is doing the literature together -- we read aloud and discuss in the moment, compare the themes to Star Trek or Star Wars, or films we've seen recently, use literature guides to help prompt thinking/discussing the works with the background info and theme info provided etc. Our DSs would never have really gotten into literature if we hadn't done it aloud all together.

The only comments on your specific plan I would make, is that Teaching the Classics is not a program for your student but for YOU, to teach YOU how to draw out discussion on literature, so you might actually want to consider doing that program on your own now to equip you for the next years. Another thought: Windows to the World is not really a full year literature program (it covers 6 short stories, and gives specific instruction on annotation and how to write a literary analysis essay). You will want to do some full-length novels to fill that program out. May I suggest looking at The Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings? Our boys LOVED that full year study, and it would be a great, gentle intro into literary analysis, and is such a high-interest adventure epic with great notes and discussion questions to spark conversation, that it might really light a fire under your student and get him really into literature! :)

Enjoy your literary journey together! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Julieofsardis]

Well, I'm only a year further down the road, but I have been doing a huge amount of research, so maybe I can help a little.

I'll just tell you my opinion about each resource.

Drawn Into the Heart -- not my fave, but I think it would accomplish what you want to accomplish. I would prefer LL 7 or 8 instead.
Figuratively Speaking -- I think that would be great and age appropriate. It would be a great prep for future great books. If you were to reduce the number of books suggested in the DITHOR or LL7 you could easily fit both of those into 8th grade.

Teaching the Classics -- This is more of a resource than a curriculum. You could have your dc watch it with you, but it is my understanding that it is primarily a resource for you to learn how to have a Socratic dialog with dc about certain books. I might think about getting this for you before you start 9th grade.
Windows to the World -- This would be perfect for this year I think, but it would only cover 1 semester. You could do a LL high school course for the other semester because they too only cover 1 semester. A Shakespeare might be good.

Now, all of the other resources are great, but they are all great books studies in my opinion. You could use all of those resources, or find the one that you like and stick with it. Each has pros and cons that are well documented here on this board. Nan's Words of Wisdom, or posts by Lori D. will give you a wealth of info on all of these resources.

To me, a better way to think about 10th, 11th, and 12th is to decide what genres you want to cover in what year. Then, you can decide which of the excellent resources would best help you cover that. You could decide to let your literature be linked to your history studies which would make me lean toward TWTM, Smarr, individual study guides, or thegreatbooks.com. You could also decide you wanted to follow a traditional literature cycle, where you do American Lit. one year and Brit Lit. another and then I'd look at Excellence in Literature, Smarr's traditional courses, LL, or individual study guides.

I hope I'm not over-simplifying things. You may already be well aware of the things I'm sharing here. But because each of the resources you listed in the last three years have enough material to cover all 4 years of H.S., I felt like some clarification might be necessary.

HTH

Edit: Sorry, LoriD. I was composing while you posted. I would always defer to you.
OP: I read in another post where you wanted something secular. I'd have to rethink Smarr and thegreatbooks.com. They are decidedly Christian with strong opinion.

[jibaker103]

Sounds like a good (and gentle) plan to me. I think the thing that will work best in your plan is doing the literature together -- we read aloud and discuss in the moment, compare the themes to Star Trek or Star Wars, or films we've seen recently, use literature guides to help prompt thinking/discussing the works with the background info and theme info provided etc. Our DSs would never have really gotten into literature if we hadn't done it aloud all together.

Most definitely. I will start with what DITHOR incorporates and grow from there.

The only comments on your specific plan I would make, is that Teaching the Classics is not a program for your student but for YOU, to teach YOU how to draw out discussion on literature, so you might actually want to consider doing that program on your own now to equip you for the next years.

I know. The plan is to have this fully incorporated into our discussions by 1/2 way through 9th grade, if not sooner. I found a lesson plan on the IEW Family website that incorporates 5 weeks of lessons learning the Teaching the Classics method.

Another thought: Windows to the World is not really a full year literature program (it covers 6 short stories, and gives specific instruction on annotation and how to write a literary analysis essay). You will want to do some full-length novels to fill that program out. May I suggest looking at The Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings? Our boys LOVED that full year study, and it would be a great, gentle intro into literary analysis, and is such a high-interest adventure epic with great notes and discussion questions to spark conversation, that it might really light a fire under your student and get him really into literature! :)

You read my mind!!!:D I have Literary Lessons from LOTR and forgot to put it on my list. I'm not sure if Noah will still want to do it since he has read the triology twice already but I'm going to try. Maybe I can just get him to read sections based on the literary term it is trying to teach. Any suggestions on helping me with this situation is welcome!!

Enjoy your literary journey together! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thanks so much for your help!!

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[jibaker103]

Well, I'm only a year further down the road, but I have been doing a huge amount of research, so maybe I can help a little.

I'll just tell you my opinion about each resource.

Drawn Into the Heart -- not my fave, but I think it would accomplish what you want to accomplish. I would prefer LL 7 or 8 instead.

Noah has read some of the LL books but not only that we already chose Ancient Based-History Writing Lessons from IEW and have a combined reading list from TWTM, SL, and BF to coordinate with History & Geography. I thought DITHOR would work perfectly since he could read my list and anything else he wants. Why don't you like DITHOR?

Figuratively Speaking -- I think that would be great and age appropriate. It would be a great prep for future great books. If you were to reduce the number of books suggested in the DITHOR or LL7 you could easily fit both of those into 8th grade.

I'm glad this will work. It was suggested from Lori D. and I fell in love with it!:)

Teaching the Classics -- This is more of a resource than a curriculum. You could have your dc watch it with you, but it is my understanding that it is primarily a resource for you to learn how to have a Socratic dialog with dc about certain books. I might think about getting this for you before you start 9th grade.

I have the book only. We do not do well with IEW's DVDs at all!!:lol: I know it's something for me to learn and I am. The plan is to be incorporating these end of the book discussions and writing assignments consistently by the 1st semester of 9th grade.

Windows to the World -- This would be perfect for this year I think, but it would only cover 1 semester. You could do a LL high school course for the other semester because they too only cover 1 semester. A Shakespeare might be good.

I actually found a lesson plan on the IEW Families website that incorporates Teaching the Classics and adding in novels of my choice to stretch Windows to the World to a full year course. My other choices would probably be Literary Lessons from LOTR or LL Shakespeare. One problem I have is that ds would not wait for school to start and read the trilology twice already.

Now, all of the other resources are great, but they are all great books studies in my opinion. You could use all of those resources, or find the one that you like and stick with it. Each has pros and cons that are well documented here on this board. Nan's Words of Wisdom, or posts by Lori D. will give you a wealth of info on all of these resources.

Believe me when I say that I have searched this site from top to bottom when trying to make my decisions on curriculum. I think I'm dizzy from the wealth of information rolling around in my head!!:lol:

To me, a better way to think about 10th, 11th, and 12th is to decide what genres you want to cover in what year. Then, you can decide which of the excellent resources would best help you cover that. You could decide to let your literature be linked to your history studies which would make me lean toward TWTM, Smarr, individual study guides, or thegreatbooks.com. You could also decide you wanted to follow a traditional literature cycle, where you do American Lit. one year and Brit Lit. another and then I'd look at Excellence in Literature, Smarr's traditional courses, LL, or individual study guides.

As of right now we have World History (spine Spielgovel's HO), World Geography (Trail Guide), and World Literature (SL 6, 7, & 300; TWTM, and BF) along with Ancient & Medieval History-Based Writing Lessons all tied together spread over 2 years.

For 10th and 11th grades we will move on to US History, US Geography, and American Literature with US History Based Writing Lessons vol 1 & 2.

12th grade we will go back to Ancients to tackle those GB listed in TWTM that he was not mature enough to handle.

I hope I'm not over-simplifying things. You may already be well aware of the things I'm sharing here. But because each of the resources you listed in the last three years have enough material to cover all 4 years of H.S., I felt like some clarification might be necessary.

Thank you so much for your help. Both you and Lori D. got my wheels turning on how all of this will play out and I greatly appreciate the advice.

HTH

Edit: Sorry, LoriD. I was composing while you posted. I would always defer to you.
OP: I read in another post where you wanted something secular. I'd have to rethink Smarr and thegreatbooks.com. They are decidedly Christian with strong opinion.

Thank you for the warning after looking at everything again so far the only study guide I'm really comfortable with is Progeny Press. I will look again at some of the others that have been mentioned.


Again thank you so much for your much needed input!!!

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[WTMCassandra]

One quick thought:

I don't think Figuratively Speaking will take you a year. Maybe a semester, but not a year, especially since your student is older. So that would allow you time to move on to Teaching the Classics sooner (which is A Good Thing).

[jibaker103]

One quick thought:

I don't think Figuratively Speaking will take you a year. Maybe a semester, but not a year, especially since your student is older. So that would allow you time to move on to Teaching the Classics sooner (which is A Good Thing).
Thank you. I will make that adjustment.

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[Osmosis Mom]

About the unit-study for Lord of the Rings -do people feel that would work for someone who is approaching it secularly? I mean, it's OK if it references to Christian themes, but not that it was assuming its audience was Christian. What do you think? Any other similar unit-studies that go into same depth for just a couple of great works?

[Chris in VA]

Just wanted to say to the original poster, don't worry if your child isn't ready to analyze and discuss yet--even tho it's supposed to be a logic level skill (i.e., to be able to pick apart something), I've found true critical reading to be slow to develop in my own kids. In fact, critical reading is a goal for the freshmen at VCU (college)--so that tells me you have years ahead to work on it.

[jibaker103]

About the unit-study for Lord of the Rings -do people feel that would work for someone who is approaching it secularly? I mean, it's OK if it references to Christian themes, but not that it was assuming its audience was Christian. What do you think? Any other similar unit-studies that go into same depth for just a couple of great works?
As far as I can tell it is very secular. That is why I chose it! :)

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[jibaker103]

8th grade – World History: Ancients, Medieval, & Early Renaissance
Literature
· Sonlight 6 & 7 readers and read-aloud (library)
· TWTM 5th and 6th grade reading list (library)
· Beautiful Feet Ancient & Medieval (library)

Literary Analysis
· Drawn into the Heart of Reading Level 6/7/8 (1st semester and then only certain books)
· Figuratively Speaking (1st semester)
· Literary Lessons from LOTR (2nd semester through summer)
· Teaching the Classics (for me to implement whenever I get a chance especially over the summer)


Composition
· Ancient History Based Writing Lessons (Summer & 1st semester - currently on lesson 6)
· Medieval History Based Writing Lessons? (2nd semester) (Is this overkill with the amount of writing in literary analysis section)

Grammar
· Easy Grammar Ultimate 8
· Fix It Grammar? (Does this complement EGU? Should I solidify the basics before starting this?)

9th grade – World History: Late Renaissance, Early Modern, & Modern
Literature
· Sonlight 300 reading list (library)
· TWTM 7th grade reading list (library)
· Beautiful Feet Early American & World History and US & World History vol 1-4 (world history portions – library & purchase)

Literary Analysis
· Windows to the World (1st or 2nd semester) (Can I do this at the same time as The Elegant Essay?)
· Lightning Literature – Shakespeare: Tragedies & Sonnets (2nd semester or summer)
· Lightning Literature or Study Guides (summer or none)

Composition
· The Elegant Essay (1st semester)

Grammar
· Easy Grammar Ultimate 9
· Fix It Grammar (Reinforcement. I also read this was good preparation for the SAT)

10th and 11th grade – American History
Literature
· Sonlight 100 reading list (library)
· TWTM 8th grade reading list (library)
· Beautiful Feet Early American & World History and US & World History vol 1-4 (US history portions – library & purchase)

Literary Analysis
· Lightning Literature American Literature 1 & 2
· Study Guides - Progeny Press & Garlic Press

Composition
· American History Based Writing Lessons Vol. 1
· American History Based Writing Lessons Vol. 2

Grammar
· Fix It Grammar (reinforcement)

12th grade – Economics & Government
· Excellence in Literature’s World Literature or TWTM Rhetoric Level Ancients and anything else he wants to read from 9th – 12th list with Study Guides

I am pretty much going secular on everything. Please give me your comments, additions, and subtractions to this plan. I am open to all advice and constructive criticism!! :001_smile:

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[Lori D.]

About the unit-study for Lord of the Rings -do people feel that would work for someone who is approaching it secularly? I mean, it's OK if it references to Christian themes, but not that it was assuming its audience was Christian. What do you think? Any other similar unit-studies that go into same depth for just a couple of great works?


The Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings was written by a Christian, but in a secular manner, especially as the author markets the year-long guide to public high schools (which will *only* use secular material). There is an appendix in the back of the teacher guide which covers Christian themes and Biblical Scripture for those who wish to incorporate that into the study, so any Christian themes are presented separately from the main study guide.

Other secular literature guides for Lord of the Rings through free online guide websites:
- Sparknotes (under each individual title of the trilogy: Fellowship of the Ring; Two Towers; Return of the King)
- Cliff's Notes (under the trilogy title of Lord of the Rings)
- Grade Saver (under the trilogy title of Lord of the Rings)


SECULAR LIT. GUIDES FOR INDIVDUAL BOOKS:

- Glencoe (free online guides) = http://www.glencoe.com/sec/literature/litlibrary/
- Sparknotes (free online guides) = www.sparknotes.com
- Cliff's Notes (free online guides) = www.cliffsnotes.com
- Grade Saver (free online guides) = www.gradesaver.com
- Portals to Literature series = see titles at Amazon or Rainbow Resource
- Garlic Press publishers = see titles at Rainbow Resource or at the publisher's website: http://garlicpress.com/cgi-bin/shop_gp.cgi?product=LITERATURE

Pink Monkey, E Notes, and Book Rags all are secular online guides with some free portions, but mostly they are a library of literature guides for which you pay an annual access fee.


CHRISTIAN LIT GUIDES FOR INDIVIDUAL BOOKS
The Great Books, Progeny Press, and Total Language Plus are terrific lit. guides, but the Christian perspective is integral to them and I think someone would find it difficult to use them in secular fashion.


LIT PROGRAMS WHICH COVER SEVERAL BOOKS
Lightning Lit. guides are by Christian authors, but are written in a secular fashion (except for the Christian British Authors study). Learning Language Arts Through Literature (LLATL) Gold (Amer. Lit or British Lit) is also written by a Christian author; I haven't had a chance to look at it yet to determine if someone could use it in a secular fashion or not.

[Osmosis Mom]

Lori,

Thanks so much for this information. I had looked at Lord of the Rings, but wanted confirmation. I appreciate all the links as well. So helpful.

Thanks for taking the time.

Nadia

[againes]

Wow, I need to do some thinking. We are needing to add some literary analysis to our curriculum. My oldest (10th grade) is not wanting to pull away from from the family ancients (bibloplan--it would be her 3rd time through the ancients) and do her own thing. So I was looking at somehow adding her in with some heavier stuff. (Ancient lit) About all I knew about was the Omnibus ancient programs.


I am uncomfortable with literary anaylsis myself and was very unsucessful in instructing or evaluating sonlight's writing programs with nothing to compare their writings to.

Thanks again for your posts and threads to follow.

[MIch elle]

It's on the IEW families yahoo group and it looks great!

[againes]

Thanks, I have it on my list. I think that will be a good starting point for us.

We are strong on math and science but weak on the humanities.

Thanks for all the help