The doom of math being forced into science...

[Carol in Cal.]

OK, so last night DD and I were reviewing a lesson that she learned last semester in Real Science 4 Kids Physics (level 1). We were talking about the scientific definition of work. It's an equation, she suddenly realized. An actual equation, involving math. Actual math.

This is so not welcome. DD's view is that any brush with math ruins a subject. She hates math so much that she writes essays about this. And poetry, too. (Write about what you know or feel deeply about, I say. I know I feel deeply, VERY deeply, about hating math, she replies.)

So now it will be interesting to see what happens. Will she hate science because math is involved? (Likely) Will she work on math harder because she likes science? (Ha) Will she grudgingly start to think that math may be useful, and swallow it a little more willingly? (This sounds like the best outcome that is within the realm of possibility.)

I'm trying to nudge her toward the third response. I told her that I don't like math either, but that I don't hate it. I regard it like a shovel. It's a tool to do other things that I really care about. I don't care about it for its own sake, but I have to be good at it to do other things I want to do.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If she likes language - tell her that math is a language. It can be a foreign language to a lot of us and takes some learning, but once you learn its terms and its structure, it isn't as bad as it seems!

[Carol in Cal.]

How she failed to see sooner than this that science involves math is beyond me. We have talked about this kind of thing a lot. We have talked about using math to make models of things. We have looked at equations and expressions for other science relationships. It's just so funny that she never thought of this as math before.

[Volty]

In college everything becomes math, not that you want to mention this, just saying...

[Carol in Cal.]

In college everything becomes math, not that you want to mention this, just saying...

Yes. I know. And I worry.

(Actually, I don't worry as much as I used to. DD actually IS learning math now that we have switched back to Saxon this year. If she is true to form, once she starts to feel proficient she will not hate it anymore once she feels proficient and capable and a little proud of herself. This is what happened with reading and writing as well. And with grammar. I expect her to maintain the attitude that she hates math just out of stubbornness, for the foreseeable future, but that the passion will go out of that stance over time. Anyway, that's what I'm hoping.)

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm not a math fan. However, I've had to learn its mysterious ways because it is used everywhere.

My eldest recently told me she was going to get a job that didn't involve math. I told her the following story:

When I was in college I started a new job with a business that had recently opened (although the manager had previous management experience). After about a month of my checks not adding up to what I thought they should be I approached the manager about it. "Show me what you're doing to figure my paycheck because I'm getting different numbers," I said. He sat down and proceeded to add up my hours like this:

6(hours).45(minutes)
7.45
5.30
--------------
19.10

I'm sure my face looked like this: :eek:

I said "no, no, no...you can't do it that way!" He said "yes, let me show you again..." I said "no! I understand what you are doing but you are doing it *wrong*. You are adding it up in such a way that I have to work 100 minutes in order to get paid for an hour of work and an hour is only 60 minutes. You must add the minutes separately and then divide them by sixty." "OOOOOOOohhh!" he said. He had to refigure all of my checks and make up for it. So, yes, you must learn math no matter what job you desire. Period.

edited this because when I read where Carol quoted me I spotted a stray apostrophe, dagnabit!

[Carol in Cal.]

This is a truly amazing story. Remarkable on many levels, and useful! I plan to tell it to Dd. This math she can do, LOL. And now she will know just how useful it can be.

I'm not a math fan. However, I've had to learn it's mysterious ways because it is used everywhere.

My eldest recently told me she was going to get a job that didn't involve math. I told her the following story:

When I was in college I started a new job with a business that had recently opened (although the manager had previous management experience). After about a month of my checks not adding up to what I thought they should be I approached the manager about it. "Show me what you're doing to figure my paycheck because I'm getting different numbers," I said. He sat down and proceeded to add up my hours like this:

6(hours).45(minutes)
7.45
5.30
--------------
19.10

I'm sure my face looked like this: :eek:

I said "no, no, no...you can't do it that way!" He said "yes, let me show you again..." I said "no! I understand what you are doing but you are doing it *wrong*. You are adding it up in such a way that I have to work 100 minutes in order to get paid for an hour of work and an hour is only 60 minutes. You must add the minutes separately and then divide them by sixty." "OOOOOOOohhh!" he said. He had to refigure all of my checks and make up for it. So, yes, you must learn math no matter what job you desire. Period.

[Carol in Cal.]

DD is in high school, a sophomore at a local Catholic high school.

She still hates math.

But she is GOOD at it.

Last year she took Honors Algebra 1 and Honors Geometry, and did just fine in them.

This year she is taking Honors Algebra 2.

[GGardner]

I'm not a math fan. However, I've had to learn its mysterious ways because it is used everywhere.

My eldest recently told me she was going to get a job that didn't involve math. I told her the following story:

(snip)


What I love about this story is that the manager could have gotten the math wrong even if he used a calculator.

[farrarwilliams]

I think you should read Math Curse by Jon Scieszka and Lane Smith to her because that's pretty much the exact plot. Math seeps into every subject at school. Unless you're afraid it will ruin lunch, M&M's, and everything else in the book.

[creativish]

This reminds me of DH... English creeps up in all subjects as well.

DH is an artsy guy, very talented but seriously lacks in writing skills.
In order to pass many art classes for his fine arts major in college, he had to successfully write multiple papers.
It was treacherous for him. And could have easily prevented him from graduating.:glare: frustrating.

[texasmama]

Well, I am with your dd.;) I like to call chemistry math disguised as science. What a dirty trick!:lol: I was not a math lover. Ever. I managed it through graduate school statistics (and pre calculus as an undergrad), but I never liked, understood or enjoyed the sciences which were math-heavy. I did love biology, though. Now, THAT is science. You can tell your dd that not all science involves math.:D

[Kristine out of lurking]

Well, I am with your dd.;) I like to call chemistry math disguised as science. What a dirty trick!:lol:

You are not kidding! It's a very good thing that we began with geometry first this new school year. Dd does not like math; the first week of geometry was definitely more logic. Then she started her chemistry homework (outside class). THERE's the math. If we she was doing any other kind of math this year, it would have been an ugly year.

Whew!:001_smile:

[Janie Grace]

Math is what we have to study in order to ALSO study wonderful English. :) That's how I always saw it anyway. Swallow the medicine the best you can and then move on to dessert. Some of us just hate math.

[nono]

I have a habit of saying, "Everything is math..."


You may need to take her through Kubler-Ross's 5 stages* now to get her to move along. In a way, her whole world is dying. :grouphug: to your daughter.


*I'm actually serious, though I don't mean it in a "Oh my goodness, this is a tragedy" sort of way. :)

[Tigger]

I'll share my experience. I hated math. Hated it with a passion. Call anything math, and I automatically hated it. This despite being really good at it from early elementary. I think I hated it so due to the busy work, but when I say I hated it, it's an understatement.

By the time I got to high school I so didn't want to do anymore. My parents made me continue anyway, following the normal sequence in high school. I was on an accelerated science track, so in bio in 9th (a year ahead), along with algebra (grade level); aced bio and barely got by in algebra (but aced the regents - NY).

In tenth I started chem and geometry. I was barely scraping by in geometry (but again aced the regents) but flying along in chem.

The disparity in my grades did not go unnoticed by the chem teacher and the next year, having him again for physics (while now doing trig for math and physics for science, was what turned my hate for math into a passion. My chem and physics teacher was a PhD (yes, teaching high school) and he made physics come alive, even with all that math, even with my not yet doing calculus. I still didn't do as well as I could have in math - it was the teacher boring me to pieces, but "doc" made me see the math in physics, something no formula in the math class would ever do, or could ever do. I still did well on the regents in math, but just could not wrap my head around the teacher's style in math (had him for all three years BTW, which is why it was likely a problem at the classroom level, but not the testing level).

By the time I graduated high school, I had five years of science (with 2 AP's done) and five years of math (including one AP level)...as someone who hated math. To this day, I credit doc with having the creativity to make science and math, which go together, come alive and make sense and have meaning as to why the connect and are dependent on each other. I don't think I'd have continued on in college in the sciences had it not been for him being my teacher for three years!