British & American Homeschool?

[HSHS]

Hi,

Well my dd has been homeschooled since January. She had a really bad time in school the last two years she was there so we just gave her the time to recover and she basically just read, watched some educational things, read through some textbooks when she randomly decided to, etc. I didn't ask her to do any of it, she just felt really bad about falling behind so I left her to it until now.

So, if we were in the US she'd be starting 9th grade in September and she's wanted to go to college in America for a long time now. She also likes how the American ed system works, in particular the maths where it's split into Algebra, Geometry etc rather than just being jumbled together and called 'maths' like it is here.

So really, I'd like to find a way to put together the British and American 'ways', if you like. So the best of both worlds? Just in case she changes her mind, and for my own peace of mind I suppose, I'd like her to do GCSEs and A Levels but I'd like her to be able to split apart the maths classes the way she'd like to do it. Any suggestions?

Also, does anyone have any ideas on buying curriculum if it's done for the american system and (although it sounds like teaching-to-the-test) and our GCSE syllabuses have additional things needed? Should I buy additional things to supplement the original because dd chose the original or should we look for one that covers everything because it's just simpler?

Final question now, I promise - because she was in school until January of '09 and because she's been basically 'unschooled' until now is Classical ed the wrong way to go? Is it too late?

Thank you (:

[Laura Corin]

Hello

I'm a Brit with an American husband who has mostly hung around American message boards, so I hope that I can help you out.

I think you can combine the best of both worlds. For example, you can do an American maths programme like Life Of Fred (http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/index2.html), which does the traditional American separated out maths, then when you have finished Beginning Algebra, Advanced Algebra (two algebras in one year) and Geometry (one year), you can then look at the GCSE syllabus (IGCSEs are usually easiier for home educators to take) and fill in any gaps. The author of LOF worked out that in order to cover the maths IGCSE syllabus, you need to do all of Algebra, all of Geometry and bits of his Calculus and Statistics books, but completing the last two is overkill for the IGCSE. The Alan Smith IGCSE maths book would allow you to fill in any gaps instead.

I think you can start on Classical ed at any age, but as she's had a hard time at school and is only just getting back into solid work, it might be a bit overwhelming for her. I'd tread carefully.

FWIW, Calvin has taken one IGCSE (biology) and is doing a second (geography) plus a GCSE (classical civilisation) this year.

As far as colleges are concerned: we are not thinking about US universities, just because they are so expensive. I like the idea of the Scottish system though: it's four years and gives more time for discovery and experimentation than the English/Welsh one.

I'm happy to answer any other questions that you have...

Best wishes

Laura

[HSHS]

Hi Laura,

Thank you so much for replying! Someone who understands my terminology with British stuff is rare. Haha! ;D

We're planning on doing a Maths GCSE, rather than IGCSE but planning on doing IGCSEs in other subjects to add up to at least five, hopefully. Luckily the maths GCSE doesn't have coursework anymore or we'd be heading into problems.

DD has basically taken charge of all the things she wants to do and I think it's made her even more independent than she already was. She's been saving a little money each month for 'school stuff' and is excited about her freshman year. I don't remember seeing her excited about school since she was three so it's definately a big improvement. =D

Me and DD just looked at the link you gave us too. (: DD's really excited about it after we read the sample pages and wants me to order it. I think we'll be doing most of it with their books now so thank you so much for that! I think we'll buy the beginner and advanced algebra books and their revision-type books and the IGCSE book you mentioned at a later date. You've been really helpful!

I think that's our maths plans covered! Haha! We were originally thinking of Teaching Textbooks because they allowed her to be independent (very important to her =D) but the price, as well as her wondering whether she'd be motivated enough put us off a little. We'll definately be getting these though and I can see DD whizzing through them already.

With regard to her getting overwhelmed, she actually wants to work through the summer holidays and she's also been reading a J. Edgar Hoover biography all this week which she bought herself so her drive for knowledge and learning's always there. I guess that old homeschool philosophy is right. ;D She's already insisted though that the only subject she wants to do actively with me there is history and the way we've been doing that is mainly her accidentally stumbling across some information, asking me about it and it leading to a discussion so I don't think she's going to be too overwhelmed. She actually started looking into homeschool philosophies herself and she's pretty sure Classic is the way to go. (:

DD wants to know how your ds found biology too. She's not very science-y but wants to try biology for some unknown reason. ;D Is your son very science-y as well? That'd probably factor in how good/bad he found it. xD

Thanks again Laura you've been brilliant and sorry for the really long reply, DD kept adding in points for me to make. = )

[Laura Corin]

You are very welcome. I've amassed a stupid amount of US/UK home ed information over the last six years, so it's nice to be able to pass it on.

Calvin's not science-y. All you need for the biology is a retentive memory and lots of practise with past papers. There's a trick to it and perhaps all non-maths GCSEs: make a point, back it up (with some technical vocabulary, in the case of bio). That's it - very simple. For example, if you are asked why a particular process stops working at a particular temperature, you write that the enzymes (one point) are denatured (second point) at that temperature and stop working. Voila! Calvin (boasting alert) got an A*. We used the Longman bio IGCSE for Edexcel book. They should be publishing a new edition of the book for the new syllabus soon.

For each of the LOF texts, you need to buy the textbook and the home companion study guide. The latter has lots of extra problems to work out, plus instructions for splitting up the main book into manageable sections. I don't think that the course is complete without it. Stan at LOF is very helpful and the books arrive swiftly and individually autographed.

It sounds like your daughter is really taking charge of her education. I would present some Classical ideas to her but (personally) wouldn't interrupt the good direction she is heading in if she's not interested.

Best wishes and do ask more questions. I'm going out to the theatre now, but I'll check in again.

Laura

[HSHS]

Thank you for passing it on. I really appreciate it. (: At present, DD is probably more knowledgable about home ed than I am but even she couldn't find a maths curriculum she 100% liked so we both really appreciate it. ;D

I think the home companion study guide is what I'm calling a revision-type book. It isssss. I just looked it up. Haha, yep. We'll be ordering both. I'm sure DD is going to sail through it and she's gone from very disappointed about TT to very excited about LOF. We've also got the murderous maths books (by the Horrible History people, etc) that she wants to supplement it with but they're quite simple for her, if I'm honest. But if it instills a love of learning in her, I don't mind at all. = )

DD's very happy to hear of other less science-y people too. ;D His grade's brilliant too! DD wants to do biology as her freshman year science and attempt the spectrum chemistry in her sophomore year more than likely which I'm very pleased to hear. We did read that the Longman look was recommended in the syllabus so we'll more than likely use that one too but once again, her independent side is saying she wants something she could work on on her own and doesn't feel she could work through a science textbook on her own without anything to supplement it. Any ideas on that? D:

I do agree with you on the classical ed side though. She thinks she might like to do all the different subjects in a different method for a bit of diversity and wants to try reading biographies and 'living books' like the Charlotte Mason method for history, possibly Rosetta Stone for Latin and she wants to recap the french she's done and go on to more advanced stuff. Science and english she's unsure about right now. She loves writing but for some reason, in school, she's never really been given any direction in how to write essays before but luckily, she does want to learn. We were thinking of Brave Writer's high school program but we're not 100% yet. Would that be counted as composition on a transcript?

I have to agree with you about her going in a good direction too. She doesn't want to stay being unschooled because she worries she isn't learning enough but I don't really want to go for structured either. She tends to work well late at night which is why I let her stay up late if it's learning-related and she's even made the effort to try two SAT practice tests. One was from SparkNotes and she got 1540 (530M 650W 530CR) and it really put her off, to be honest. I think it upset her a little to think 'all that math I'll have to do to get a better score...' but she was told that SparkNotes isn't very reliable so she took an actually college board practice test and got a 1630 (520M 530W 580CR) which she was a lot happier with but she still wants to improve.

The lesson being: don't use SparkNotes for practice tests. xD

Enjoy the theatre and thank you so much, once again.

[Laura Corin]

Hello again

I think that giving herself variety in ways of learning sounds like a great idea. She probably needs to decide which GCSEs she wants to take, because she'll need to conform to the curriculum on those, then she can go her own way for other subjects. This (http://www.runnymede-college.com/unientrance.php) is a good article comparing UK and US qualifications.

'Calvin' and I read through the biology text book together, snuggled on the sofa, but he's a lot younger. We did what experiments we could and both learned a lot. For Chemistry, there's a guy in Edinburgh who supplies a lot of science equipment to home ed people. I'll try to find you his contact details.

I think the Bravewriter would count as composition, so long as it's a high school programme. We use the Latin programmes from Galore Park - I particularly like Latin Prep. LP is for younger students, but an older child could just move faster. The three LP books together are equivalent to two years of high school Latin on a US transcript. I have heard that Rosetta Stone is better for living languages, but I don't have any personal experience.

She still is unschooling you know, because she's picking her own ways to learn - they just happen to be quite structured at present.

Best wishes

Laura

[HSHS]

Hello again Laura,

I didn't really think of it like that. She actually is still unschooling. xD

I'll show that article to DD tommorow too, she couldn't find anywhere that compared the two, really.

Thanks for the ideas on Latin too. Maybe if she had an easier curriculum and could work through it quicker it'd feel like she was accomplishing more, or accomplishing it easier and it might encourage her more. I'll ask her to read the sample chapters tommorow and tell me what she thinks. She's definately not interested in Rosetta Stone for French, I know that. She's been doing french since she was 5 right up until 13 and although it was a slow progression, I think she's learnt quite a lot. She does insist that it's just entire improvisation when she writes in french though and I overheard her best friend saying 'and one of those pointy things on top of the e, cause it looks good' and they laughed about it but it was genuinely what they did. ;D

I think she has chosen what she wants to do for GCSEs though, actually. I think the list is now Maths GCSE, English Language IGCSE, Psychology GCSE, Biology IGCSE and Geography/History IGCSE. She wants to look into what's involved in the Geography one before she decides between them, or chooses both. She's worried it's going to be too much memorization and really, I think she only chose it to add up to give GCSEs so we'll probably do history, if she chooses but we have to pick the specific topics we're going to do.

Then there's the exam centres part, which should be fun considering DD's drawn a blank so far. She even resorted to looking for colleges/sixth forms that took A Level external candidates eventually but so far, it hasn't worked. She's still waiting to hear back from one though, so fingers crossed. Her old school's the only school local home ed groups can recommend and she doesn't really want to go back there, I don't think so that could be a problem. We did get given a link to 3a tutors though and even though they're quite expensive we're considering them now for her IGCSEs just to save hunting around everywhere else. I think it's £150 per subject which is expensive in my opinion but we haven't found anywhere to compare it to yet. xD

It'd be good to get that chemistry guy's details too. = ) I think it'd be good for her to have a bit of fun with science I think, rather than being taught to the test. It might make her a bit more interested in Science in general.

DD's still really excited about those maths books too which is good to see. xD

[Laura Corin]

I don't believe it. I just typed a massive reply and then stupidly lost it. Here's the precis:

Geography is fine, but it's very slanted towards economics/development these days (rather than rivers/glaciers/map work). Calvin finds it all a bit obvious and not very thrilling, I think. It has the advantage of being all learned from one text book, unlike history, where you have to dig around more for materials. I think that all GCSEs involve a lot of memorisation (make your point, back it up.... make your point, back it up.... make your point, back it up...) except perhaps English Language, but I haven't seen that syllabus.

The guy in Edinburgh is here (http://www.paradigmshift.org.uk/html/chemistry.html). I have heard that the written materials he sells are creationist, but he can source chemicals, etc

A couple of friends have found that their children's language learning in State/private schools was highly improvisational, and they had to add in a bit of rote learning so that the kids could use the language flexibly. There seems to be a lot of reliance on learning particular dialogues, but that can limit the options in using the language. True immersion is a different thing, but most schools just can't offer that. I am teaching my boys French using Galore Park's So You Really Want to Learn French - my degree is in French and Drama. They previously learned Mandarin by immersion in China, so we are continuing that too.

Even though Latin Prep will be easier for her because of her age, she'll still need the discipline to learn the grammar as she goes along, otherwise she'll reach about chapter seven and get all snarled up.

Are you a member of the Yahoo HE-GCSEs group? And have you seen their Wiki? That might give you ideas for exam centres.

What's your name, by the way?

Best wishes

Laura

[HSHS]

Ah the amount of times I've done that. D:

It does seem that a lot of them just involve a lot of memorization and DD didn't want to have to remember everything from the different types of erosion to... whatever else to do with geography ;D She's more than interested in different parts of the world and actually asked me to look out for a big world map so she could do this big project which was a bit politics/culture crossover with pictures of the person in charge of that area (prime ministers, presidents, etc) and bits and pieces about culture and pictures of landmarks in the area with arrows going from the picture to the place. It sounds good, but I doubt it'll cover anything to do with Geography at GCSE level. D:

Her Geography lessons obviously weren't very good when she was younger because she can't identify any places on a map, really. She knows all the continents, can pick out the UK and can pick our city out on the UK map but that's basically it. Oh, and she knows where London is on a UK map too. But other than that, nope. She was amused to no end by the fact that the equator crossed right across Uganda because she wants to volunteer there when she's older and she says she should definately get a tan there then. ;D

English Language for IGCSE is supposed to be impossible to revise for too, but in a good way. As long as you go in having done English for long enough so that you can do the basics and some good test taking skills (like you said - make a point, back it up) it's supposed to be relatively easy. DD wants to go over different types of writing though (persuasive in particular) because she's forgotten it from her last test she did in school.

Make a point, back it up is apparently very familiar to her. When she was revising for the SAT Shakespeare part of writing about a character she says they heard that every single day and they even told them that stood at the front of the exam hall and went through how to write the essay on the interactive board just before the exam. Isn't that a bit like cheating? xD

Thanks for that link to the Chemistry guy. I might order them and see whether they are noticably creationist in their approach. If they are, I know DD will be put off immediately since she's agnostic (the reason we didn't do Ambleside Online's Charlotte Mason curriculum, most of the books were religious in approach) so we'd have to find something else but still use everything besides the book, I suppose. DD's laughing at how she could make a beaker overflow and we'd have a kitchen full of foam. Pink foam, she insists. ;D

I think that could be a problem with the grammar side of things, but I'm sure we could find some random rhymes, games, etc to help her remember. Her french teacher apparently started this chant type thing with the verbs they had to learn but didn't actually tell the kids what they were learning and what the different endings were for and when they asked she told them they didn't need to know, they just had to remember it so maybe, because of that, she'll make more of an effort with Latin grammar and she does want to start over on french grammar and verbs, etc.

I think DD's a member of that group. I'll check with her. Thanks for that. (:

And I'm Jo, sorry I forgot to say. = )