For high school what is your sequence for history?

[SS in MD]

Hi all,

High school is a new chapter in our family our oldest will enter into hs in a year and I'd like to know from those that have btdt what history their dc did in the 4 years of hs?? Was it wtm (4 yr cycle) or Sonlight or notgrass? or community college? etc

My dd eigth grade history sort of depends on what she'll study in hs.
She is about to begin Middle Ages (wtm year 2, second rotation) and I wonder if she should continue thru' the rest of world history (thru' modern times) in 8th grade, so in 9-12 she can start the 4 year cycle again, or 1 yr of American, World, European or civics?? Or perhaps we should stick with just doing middle ages/renaissance/ref and in 9-12 continue with wtm cycle (y3,y4,y1,y2)?? I'm just sort of confused!! I hope this makes sense!

I'd love to hear what others are doing especailly - that would be so helpful!

Thanks SO much...

[Basketmaker Amy]

I don't have a typical response...but every home has a different homeschooling journey...as well as every child! My oldest son started homeschooling when he was in the 9th grade and he is a big history buff. I catered his classes to his interests, not based on a rotation. He loves WWII, so we did Sonlight's 20th Century Core 300 in 9th grade. Last year he did Sonlight's Core 400 Civics/Gov't and Notgrass' American Literature. (We didn't do all of the assignments in SL...no Bible or creative writing) This summer he passed the CLEP tests for American History I, American History II, and American Government. The community college where he is dually enrolled gave him 9 credit hours for the tests. He is now on the Winston Churchill/WWII Hillsdale College Study Abroad program (comes home Friday!!!).

My other two sons have different interests. My middle next year (9th grade) will be doing Western Civilization with Spielvogel and the TTC's DVDs and then I will have him take the CLEP tests for Western Civilization I and Western Civilization II. He will probably do Notgrass' American History/TTC DVDs in 10th grade and a modified Civics course based on SL's schedule. I will probably have him take the CLEP tests for American Government, as well as American History I and II. He would like to go on the Hillsdale Western Civilization study abroad program in a couple of years.

DS (11) will probably do something like DS (14)....but who knows????!!!!

I love being able to cater homeschooling to their passions!

Good luck!

[April in CA]

Hello!
I love history, and we are using TOG as our roadmap through the ages. When my older ds began 9th grade, we began TOG Year 1 (beginning through fall of Rome) at the R level for him and the D level for my younger ds. We have continued on with TOG, doing year 2 (fall of Rome through the signing of the Constitution) during older ds's 10th grade year, and last year we enjoyed year 3 (19th century). Younger son was a freshman last year, so he made the jump to R level with year 3. This year, we will complete the cycle with year 4 (20th century to current day). After that, younger son will work through TOG years 1 and 2 at the R level to complete his high school career.

My guys both enjoy history, as do I. One of the reasons we have chosen a rigorous history cycle is the sam reason I want rigor in all our subjects. I want the guys to be prepared for whatever they may choose to do in college. Older ds is planning to be an engineer. He probably won't take lots of history classes in college - I want him to have an excellent foundation in history (and lit) to help him understand the world around him as he pursues his interests. My younger ds probably will not be an engineer; he will likely wind up in the liberal arts somewhere. I want him to be well prepared for upper level work, and I especially want him to have a biblical worldview in place as he considers current events and perhaps shapes them.

TOG has been great for this, with its focus on thinking and discussion and biblical analysis at the R (high school) level.

Hope this helps! I guess I would suggest thinking about what you want to accomplish with your history studies and if you want other children to be studying the same things at their levels or if you prefer a textbook approach.
Blessings as you plan!
April

[Leanna]

We use TOG for our history and literature. With our large family (7 kids) everyone will have their own rotation. Each rotation has its advantages.

My dd did yr 4 in 9th, yr 1 in 10th, yr 2 in 11th, and she will combine Yr3 and 4 in 12th while she takes an online college class for government.

My ds started ancients in 8th, so he will complete Yr 4 in the 11th. This will leave him free to take some online college classes in 12th....perfect for him.

My next ds will follow the same exact rotation as his older brother b/c they are 4 years apart in grade (only 3 yrs 3 mo apart in age).

Next ds will end up doing Yr 3 in 9th, Yr 4 in 10th , Yr 1 in 11th, and Yr 2 in 12th. He is my weakest reader, so this will be perfect for him to encounter the ancient books (Illiad, Aeneid etc. ) when he is older.

Next dd will do the rotation "perfectly" hitting yr 1 in 9th grade. If she's not ready for the Rhetoric lit in the 9th grade, we'll just stick with Dialectic lit for that year. It is still fine for high school credit.

Next dd will hit Yr 3 in 9th grade. I have no idea what kind of student she will be, but I can tweak things to suit her in the future.

I listed all of this to show you that even if you make it work for one dc, it will make the rotation "off" for another. I think the family is unified by studying together and enjoying the journey through history with each other. IMHO, that is more important than each child hitting the 4 year rotation in the right order for high school.

HTH,
Leanna

[Susan C.]

We went the traditional route:
9th - World Geography
10th - World History
11th - US History
12th - American Government/Economics

[SS in MD]

Thank you all for your insights!

April & Leanna,
I tried TOG (yr 2) years ago when my oldest two dds were in grammar stage. I abandoned it after 2-3 months b/c of the amount of prep & gathering of books. It was the "old" TOG (not re-designed). I have a question, how do you have time to plan it all or all your dc?? Also, at Rhetoric level I know there are discussion questions, imho it would be most beneficial to do this with a group of high schoolers (really get a discussion going), so how do these go at your homes? Is it just you & your high schooler or do younger dc get involved also. When my oldest will be in 9th, second dd will be in 7th, next one will be in 4th, and youngest dc 1st grader. Soooo, I along with homeschooling all these (younger ones need one-on-one instruction) I just don't know if I will have the time to spend w/discussion (as much as I would LIKE to). I guess I don't want to drop the ball! Anyway, please let me know how you implement TOG with all kids especially rhetoric discussions and planning.... I'm assuming you read all those teacher notes!

Many thanks,
Sangita
dd(13), dd(11), dd(8), ds(5)

[jibaker103]

My ds13 will be starting 8th grade and he will do World History, World Geography, and World Literature spread over 2 years. We will then move on to US History. I'm using TWTM (Spielgovel's HO as spine) with some Sonlight & Beautiful Feet thrown in.

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[jibaker103]

I don't have a typical response...but every home has a different homeschooling journey...as well as every child! My oldest son started homeschooling when he was in the 9th grade and he is a big history buff. I catered his classes to his interests, not based on a rotation. He loves WWII, so we did Sonlight's 20th Century Core 300 in 9th grade. Last year he did Sonlight's Core 400 Civics/Gov't and Notgrass' American Literature. (We didn't do all of the assignments in SL...no Bible or creative writing) This summer he passed the CLEP tests for American History I, American History II, and American Government. The community college where he is dually enrolled gave him 9 credit hours for the tests. He is now on the Winston Churchill/WWII Hillsdale College Study Abroad program (comes home Friday!!!).

My other two sons have different interests. My middle next year (9th grade) will be doing Western Civilization with Spielvogel and the TTC's DVDs and then I will have him take the CLEP tests for Western Civilization I and Western Civilization II. He will probably do Notgrass' American History/TTC DVDs in 10th grade and a modified Civics course based on SL's schedule. I will probably have him take the CLEP tests for American Government, as well as American History I and II. He would like to go on the Hillsdale Western Civilization study abroad program in a couple of years.

DS (11) will probably do something like DS (14)....but who knows????!!!!

I love being able to cater homeschooling to their passions!

Good luck!
Did your dc have to do any special CLEP studying to prepare for the test during or after the class with you?

Jennifer
Mother to Noah Age 13

[Kareni]

My recent graduate began homeschooling in 7th grade, so she did a three year sweep of world history that ended in 9th grade with the time period 1700 to 2000.

10th grade -- an out of the home AP US History class

11th grade -- an out of the home AP Comparative Politics and Government class

She did no social studies course in 12th grade since she decided to start a second foreign language and something had to give. She did do one quarter of Art History at the community college which did incorporate some history.

Regards,
Kareni

[April in CA]

Hello Again!
We use TOG Redesigned, and I really have no trouble planning at all. I have two high school boys - 12th and 10th grade this year, so i don't have to factor in teaching anybody to read. However, I do lead science labs for my younger son and c couple of his friends - that takes more planning than TOG for me!

We are part of an on-line virtual co-op, which I absolutely love. It is time consuming, but so worth it for us. The co-op keeps us on track when otherwise we might tend to let discussions lapse. (as we did in earlier years. I share the teaching/discussion duties with the other mothers in the co-op. This last year we did TOG Year 3 (redesigned) and I prepared for and led discussions about 7 or 8 times each for history and literature. Preparing to lead discussions for a group of students around the country involves (for me, anyway) reading the teacher's notes and as much of the student's assigned reading as I have time for (this really varied) and preparing a power point presentation from the Discussion outline. Uploading the pp to WizIQ (our virtual classroom) was pretty quick. We allowed two hours each for history and literature each week. Occasionally we were done early. My guys really enjoyed meeting other students studying the same things, and I really enjoyed meeting (on-line, at least) other moms using TOG. We will definitely be part of the co-op again this year for TOG 4.

If you were doing TOG discussions at home with various levels, you can do the discussions more informally, if that works for you, rather than devoting an entire morning or afternoon to them. YOu can discuss throughout the week as your student reads and responds to the assigned readings, especially if you have a talkative child. I have heard discussions with a variety of age groups likened to riding a bus. Everybody gets on the bus at the same place, but they get off at different stops. The littlest ones may just listen in and offer comments as you discuss more with the D and R students, and the UG and D students would most likely get off the bus sooner than the R student (who would ride the bus back to the teminal, to keep the analogy going!)

We are using the DE version of TOG now for year 4, so I will print the assignment pages and Student Activity Pages for R level for my guys (or have them do it) for each week of Unit 1 (year 4 is being released by unit). I purchased unit 1 several weeks ago, so I had time to order the books we needed - I choose to buy the books rather than hassle with the library each week, but I would do that if I needed to (that does take more time...) So really, for us, TOG Redesigned is a breeze to plan and implement. The guys know that they need to be prepared by the co-op date - having read all the assigned readings and answered all the Accountability and Thinking Questions that they can. Not having me schedule out everything by day has caused them to think about their own schedules. OUr co-op meets on Thursdays, and occasionally Wednesdays were very busy at my house!

I hope this helps answer some of your questions. What year would you be interested in starting with if you were to use TOG? You might want to join the TOG forum and see if anyone is opening a co-op for that year that you culd join. We are doing year 4, and our co-op is open to R and D students. I am not sure how many openings we have right now, but I could check for you if you like.
Blessings,
April

[Mama Lynx]

I haven't btdt, but here is our tentative schedule:

9th grade - a combo between TOG Year 1 and WTM Ancients
10th grade - a combo between TOG Year 2 and WTM Medieval
11th grade - AP American History
12th grade - AP World History

These are tentative because my DS loves, loves, loves history. IMO, he has already covered everything *necessary* for a high school diploma in history. As a rising 8th grader, he reads adult-level history books, and college-level material, for fun.

He wants to take the AP classes. I would really like him to follow as much of the four-year cycle as I can get him to. However, if he comes up with a good plan for a history specialization instead, I am open to it. He may well design a semester or a year of military history, or a time period in which he goes in-depth into WWII. If so, we'll drop TOG and use the WTM guidelines for projects/papers for specialization.

Whatever he does in history, though, he'll still do a combo of TOG lit and Great Books on the four-year schedule.

[Leanna]

Thank you all for your insights!

April & Leanna,
I have a question, how do you have time to plan it all or all your dc?? Also, at Rhetoric level I know there are discussion questions, imho it would be most beneficial to do this with a group of high schoolers (really get a discussion going), so how do these go at your homes? Is it just you & your high schooler or do younger dc get involved also. When my oldest will be in 9th, second dd will be in 7th, next one will be in 4th, and youngest dc 1st grader. Soooo, I along with homeschooling all these (younger ones need one-on-one instruction) I just don't know if I will have the time to spend w/discussion (as much as I would LIKE to). I guess I don't want to drop the ball! Anyway, please let me know how you implement TOG with all kids especially rhetoric discussions and planning.... I'm assuming you read all those teacher notes!

Many thanks,
Sangita
dd(13), dd(11), dd(8), ds(5)

We are involved with a TOG co-op, so the discussions happen there. I have led both the Rhetoric History and Lit classes while my little ones are getting hands-on activities. Next year the co-op is only doing 3 units together and the 4th unit will be on our own.

Here's my plan in a nutshell when we do not have co-op.

M-F - 9:00-12:00 - 1st grader, 3rd grader, and 5th grader do spelling, grammar (3 days), math, reading, penmanship, writing(2days), Spanish, memory CD.
- 6th grader, 10th grader, 12th grader do independent work.

M, W - 1:30- 4:30 - Have TOG discussions, do TOG activties with younger ones. Do writing assignments with 5th & 6th grader.

T, Th - 1:30 -4:30 - Do science and read alouds. Work on rewrites for writing assignments.

F- 1:30 - read alouds

If I were you, I would include both older children in the discussions.

I really like to look at my mornings as time for the 3 R's, or "skill areas", and afternoons are time for science and TOG. I do use the TOG books for reading when my dc get past the early reading stage. I also use TOG related material for copywork.

My older dc, who are more independent, are working on TOG assignments for much of the morning without my help. I really don't feel that TOG takes that much planning on my part for the Rhetoric level; everything is laid out for me. It takes a few hours to make book choices for each unit, and a little time to set up notebooks, but my Rhetoric kids can really operate independently with TOG, and I'm ready with my Teacher's Notes when it comes to discussion time.

It takes a little more planning for the Grammar level because of the hands-on activties. Our co-op has provided these up to this point, so I know I will have more work to do when we aren't in co-op. However, the activity books are great resources. When I am on my own, I don't anticipate having hands-on activities every week; we'll probably just pick 2 or 3 per unit.

I know a lot of people talk about how much planning is involved with TOG, but I picked TOG because I felt that all of the planning was done for me. I think it is much easier to have all of my kids studying the same thing than to have my high schoolers isolated by studying something else. My eldest dd, now in college, was studying on her own for high school and that's why I searched out TOG. I wanted the family unity that TOG brings to our homeschool. She now says she's envious when she sees the things we do together with TOG.

I'd be happy to answer any more questions.
Blessings,
Leanna

[Chris in VA]

haven't read any of the other replies--

We started homeschooling ds in 9th grade.
We did
9th-- Ancients
10th--Medieval
11th--skipped Early Modern and did 20th Cent
12th--backtracked to some Early Modern lit and short readings in that time period, and did 1 semester of Government, along with short stories. We had tied history and literature together so long, it was hard to break the habit.

[SS in MD]

April & Leanna,

Thanks for the detailed reply about TOG. They were helpful. There is a TOG co-op locally, but they will be doing year 4 and we are starting year 2. :-( So, I don't want to skip 2 years with all kids (especially Middle Ages which are so fun and action packed). Do either of you use TOG writing? Is it good? I really want to mature my oldest dds writing. Not just continue outlining/summarizing, but go deeper and write her opinion about a character or why the character acted a certain way, more thought questions or critical thinking writing. Does TOG writing do this? Or does it teach the fundamentals of writing (i.e writing strong sentences, good flow & transition etc)? Also, do you think dc will get the full benefit of TOG by not being in a co-op? I just wonder if those discussions will be very deep? (perhaps I'm thinking of this too deeply myself! LOL)
Also, does TOG still give a week schedule and you plan what dc should cover for that week?

Anyway, sorry to ask more questions, thanks for taking the the post.

[SS in MD]

Chris in VA,

Thanks for your post. What curriculum did you use for your dc in hs? Or did you piece something together yourself?

Thanks!
Sangita

[Basketmaker Amy]

He used the REA CLEP study guides. He preferred the ones that had the practice tests on CDs. After he finished school in May, he would review one of the guide books for a week, then take a test. Review guide book, take test, etc. The guide books were very helpful and the real tests were very similar to the tests in the books. He complained that the American History II test had a bigger emphasis on a couple of areas...feminist movement and civil rights movement...that weren't covered in the book. He was disappointed also that the American History II test only had 1-2 questions on WWII (of course, that's his favorite time period!)

Good luck!

[bclerkin]

I also followed the traditional route like Susan C.

[Leanna]

April & Leanna,

Do either of you use TOG writing? Is it good? I really want to mature my oldest dds writing. Not just continue outlining/summarizing, but go deeper and write her opinion about a character or why the character acted a certain way, more thought questions or critical thinking writing. Writing Aids is a good program. Its strengths are the progressive difficulty of the writing assignments, the variety of the assignments, the grading rubrics, the graphic organizers, and the student teaching sheets. I have found that I still have to give some instruction in writing style for some of my students. I am pulling in some new resources this year to address style, but Writing Aids has been an invaluable resource for me and my Rhetoric class. The assignments will definitely be deep enough. The TOG Rhetoric Lit is the meatiest I have seen. I usually have to trim the assignments, and TOG gives instruction in how to do this.

Does TOG writing do this? Or does it teach the fundamentals of writing (i.e writing strong sentences, good flow & transition etc)? These issues are addressed in Writing Aids; I just have some students who need more help.

Also, do you think dc will get the full benefit of TOG by not being in a co-op?I think a co-op has its advantages and disadvantages. I appreciate the insight from the other students and our discussions can be furn. OTOH, my own dc have also been pulled down by the bad attitudes of other students, and somewhat influenced by a poor work ethic in some.

I just wonder if those discussions will be very deep? (perhaps I'm thinking of this too deeply myself! LOL) Sometimes the discussions aren't deep. When we have snow days and do our discussions alone, I sometimes like to pull DAD into the discussion. He always has a way of drawing the kids in. It really helps that I have 2 kids in my home involved in discussions.

Also, does TOG still give a week schedule and you plan what dc should cover for that week?There is a sample schedule on the Loom. I don't follow it. I just print out the Reading Assignment sheet and the Student Activity Pages. I cross out anything that I have decided to skip, and we're ready to go. I give the older children their own sheets and I just type TOG assignments in the little one's planbooks.

Anyway, sorry to ask more questions, thanks for taking the the post.

I can't figure out how to split quotes, so I have responded above in red.

HTH,
Leanna

[AnitaMcC]

For us we are doing:

9th grade: World History
10th Grade: Human Geography, World Religions
11th grade: U.S. History (1 credit), U.S. Geography (1/2 credit), U.S. Government (1/2 credit). These may be done at CC but I am thinking we will do it at home.
12th grade: they will take CC courses.

[SS in MD]

Thank you all for your posts - they were very helpful...