Assigning credit question (English/Lit)

[CynthiaOK]

My rising 9th grader will be doing a lot of typical English work next year. It includes:

1 semester Worldviews readings (ala TheGreatBooks/Quine)
Grammar all year - ala Michael Clay Thompson
Writing instruction - ala Michael Clay Thompson
Vocabulary study - WW3000 series
1 semester of Starting Points (ala Quine)

With the two worldview classes (Quine), there will be a lot of reading as well as essay writing, quizzes, and tests.

In my mind, I think this should count for 2 credits (1 English, 1 Literature). Am I overcrediting? Would it look weird to have both an English credit as well as a literature credit in the same year (9th grade)?

[AnitaMcC]

We are doing for our twins 9th grade year this year...

Writer's Choice Grade 10 Grammar & Composition with Glencoe Grade 10 vocabulary.
Duiker/Spielvogel World History
World Literature is in with history as we broke it down into 5 time periods and in each time period our twins will read one fiction, one non-fiction, one biography/autobiography for a total of 15 books. They will pick most of these on their own, but I figure I will also give them a list of about 10 books that I want them to choose 3 from (classics).

So Dh and I decided to give the twins 1 credit for English 10, 1 credit for World History, 1/2 credit for World Literature.

[coopers5]

I think it's better to "under credit" than "over credit."

I think it does look weird to have English and lit. like that. It should just all roll together as one credit and a darn good one at that.

Think about it - wouldn't you want your transcript to promise slightly "less" than your child can "deliver" rather than "overpromise" ?

That's how I feel about it.
I've had two to go on to college and I feel this is the way to go with it.

HTH!

[Kendall]

I had similar questions a year or so ago. I went with 1.5 English credit, which I feel errs on the side of under crediting. I think I'll call it English composition and ancient literature or something like that. I think I got this idea from Jean in Wisc.

[CynthiaOK]

I would really like the transcript to reflect the actual work he did. The literature study he will do would be equivalent to a rigorous high school literature course. He will be reading more than 15 works and writing 5-7 essays as well as tests and quizzes. I don't know of any English programs that would incorporate that much reading and writing. But I'm thinking that on the English credit, it might be a bit light if I lump all the literature into a Literature credit, kwim? But only giving one credit just doesn't seem to do justice to the amount of work he will be doing. Maybe I can re-think the English portion and not hit it so heavily....maybe spread it out over a couple of years?

[CynthiaOK]

Did you transcript it as one course for 1.5 credits or did you use 2 courses with one course receiving 1 credit and the other 1/2 credit?

[HollyinNNV]

I am absolutely giving two credits for English this year. She gets one credit for Advanced Composition and one credit for Literature of the Western World. This reflects time spent, output and there is no way I'll only give it one credit. Of course, I'm keeping the book lists and course description so that I can "back up" the transcript. Here is her credit load:

Advanced Composition-1 Credit
Literature of the Western World-1 Credit
Music-1 Credit
Algebra I-1 Credit
History-1 Credit
Biology-1 Credit

I haven't really decided on course titles. Advanced composition might be confused with musical composition, so I might change that title. I totally understand the concern with over-crediting. But, I feel personally, with this particular year, I would be completely short-changing my daughter by only giving English one credit. YMMV
Holly

[Lori D.]

That definitely seems way more than just 1 English credit to me. What about crediting the work in this way:

1.0 credit = English
.5 - 1.0 credit = Worldview (or maybe, "Worldview Readings")


Also, check out the way SWB counts the credits for those Great Books on this website's resources, under the heading of "Workshops and Handouts", then click on the "Academic Excellence: gr. 9-12" page: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/academic-excellence-grades-9-12/

I am counting and describing our credits somewhat similar to SWB's example above. I understand that colleges may not *like* to see both an English credit AND a lit. credit -- but that IS what we did. (And, hey, SWB *is* a college prof, so it can't be ALL bad, right?!) I figure we can slap a title on the courses/credits for the transcript and then include a detailed course description of what was included in each course. In case it is of any help, below is how much work we put into each credit. From your description of what you did, that certainly sounds like 1.5 to 2.0 credits worth of work to me! BEST of luck, however you decide to credit the work. Warmest regards, Lori D.


9th grade

English 1 = 1 credit
- grammar = Winston Advanced; Chortling Bard
- writing = Put That in Writing 1
- spelling/vocabulary = individualized
- literature = Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings

History = Ancient World History = 1 credit
- text = Spielvogel Human Odyssey
- writing = several research papers
- readings = 6-8 historical fiction novels
- misc = documentaries; time line entries; other resources

Great Books = Ancient Great Literature = 1 credit
- read, discuss, write about 8 Great Books:
1. Epic of Gilgamesh
2. The Iliad
3. The Odyssey
4. various Greek myths
5. Oedipus the King
6. Antigone
7. The Aeneid
8. Till We Have Faces


10th grade

English 1 = 1 credit
- grammar = Winston Advanced; Chortling Bard
- writing = essays; research papers; timed essay practice
- spelling/vocabulary = individualized
- literature = "Worldviews in Sci-Fi Literature"
(read, discuss, write about 8 works:
1. Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde
2. Frankenstein
3. The Time Machine
4. Animal Farm
5. The Giver
6. Brave New World
7. Farenheit 451
8. A Canticle for Leibowitz
9. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

History = 20th Century World History = 1 credit
- text = Spielvogel Human Odyssey
- writing = several research papers
- readings = 6-8 historical fiction novels
- misc = documentaries; time line entries; other resources

Great Books = World Literature = 1 credit
- read, discuss, write about 7 Great Books:
1. Beowulf
2. Macbeth
3. All Quiet on the Western Front
4. Diary of Anne Frank
5. To Kill a Mockingbird
6. The Most Dangerous Game (short story)
7. Gift of the Magi (short story)


(PS -- Younger DS was in 9th this past year and did the identical work as 10th gr. DS, except the lit. portion of his English was not "Worldviews in Sci-Fi Lit.", but Lightning Lit. 8 which includes 3 units on poetry; 3 short stories; 1 novella; and 5 novels -- one of which (To Kill a Mockingbird) we did in *much* greater depth all together and counted towards that Great Books World Lit. credit.)

[CynthiaOK]

Oh, thank you! Your lists really help me see how to do this. Now I just need to get creative with course titles :-)

[Lori D.]

Oh, thank you! Your lists really help me see how to do this. Now I just need to get creative with course titles :-)


Seeing SWB's lists helped me, too. :001_smile: I forgot to mention -- her transcripts are waayyy at the bottom of that page I linked, so you have to scroll almost to the bottom of the page to see her course titles etc.

As we feel our way through this high school credit thing, I also try to keep in mind those *very* general "rules" about what equals 1 credit -- either finishing (or getting 90% finished with) a textbook, or counting hours (I've seen anything from 120-180 hours, so I figure if we do 150-180 hours we can certainly call it a full credit -- that equals about 4-5 hours of work per week). I also try to compare with what friends are doing -- we tend to do a little less than the rigorous private Christian school, but we definitely do more than the nearby public high school (many of their literature lists only include 1 long novel per quarter, plus a few short stories or a play, and 2 weeks spent on poetry) -- so I feel safe in crediting our coursework as I have. :)

Since we started doing "The Great Books" ala TWTM/TWEM, I'm finding as a general "rule of thumb" that we can realistically go into depth and spend 4-5 hours a week reading/discussing/writing about 7-10 Great Books in a year for a full credit -- and that is really about 5-6 novels (depending on length), and 3-4 much shorter works (plays, short stories, essays, etc.). Your 15 books (esp. if they were all longer works) with essays, tests, and quizzes looks like 2 credits to me!

BEST of luck, Cynthia! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[CynthiaOK]

[QUOTEYour 15 books (esp. if they were all longer works) with essays, tests, and quizzes looks like 2 credits to me[/QUOTE]

Of that 15, probably 1/2 will be shorter works or selections of works. Bastiat's, The Law, Machiavelli's, The Prince, selections from the Federalist/Anti-Federalist Papers, selections from Chaucer, Tocqueville and Descartes are all rather short. But there are some heavy works (Dante, Bonhoffer, etc.). I'm trying to pull from several lists to make my own - sometimes I get a bit over-enthusiastic :-) and need to scale back some.

Thanks again for the link - it gives me some perspective.

[Corraleno]

1 semester Worldviews readings (ala TheGreatBooks/Quine)
Grammar all year - ala Michael Clay Thompson
Writing instruction - ala Michael Clay Thompson
Vocabulary study - WW3000 series
1 semester of Starting Points (ala Quine)

I would definitely count this as 2 credits: 1 in English Grammar & Composition and 1 in World Literature (or Comparative Literature or whatever you want to title it). I don't think that looks strange at all on a transcript, these are 2 distinct subjects.

FWIW, Michael Clay Thompson offers HS vocab courses, through The Center for Talent Development at Northwestern, which award 1 credit in Honors English Vocabulary for completing Word Within the Word (including all assignments) plus reading 2 "challenging" novels and writing 2 brief essays on them. It sounds like your Grammar/Vocab/Composition curriculum will at least equal that, and I think its definitely a legitimate credit.

(If you feel that the workload for the Literature course is heavier than the Grammar & Composition course, you can always "realocate" some of the writing to the Grammar & Comp course to balance it out.)

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Also, if you're counting hours to determine what equals 1 credit, a "Carnegie Unit" (the standard for 1 HS credit) equals 120 hours of "class time or contact with an instructor." In other words, 120 hours of "seat time."

Jackie

[CynthiaOK]

Michael Clay Thompson offers HS vocab courses, through The Center for Talent Development at Northwestern, which award 1 credit in Honors English Vocabulary for completing Word Within the Word (including all assignments) plus reading 2 "challenging" novels and writing 2 brief essays on them.

That's good to know! And I think we can easily justify the 120 hours of seatwork for each credit.