Need help with assigning credits for my 9th grader's classes

[Karen in NE]

This past year we had a little trouble in our house keeping our 9th grade son on-track. He's a very slow & methodical reader and it takes him a LONG time to get his work done or to read a book. I'm trying to figure out how/where to assign credits. How many credits would you assign for the work he's done?

I'm also not sure whether to count HS robotics team, JV baseball or civil air patrol as credits or as extra-curricular activities?

Math - Jacob's Geometry
Science- Apologia Biology (no labs)
History - notgrass world history (no bible or english - just history)
Grammar - Easy Grammar Plus
IEW Student Writing Intensive C
vocabulary from classical roots
Read through the westminster shorter catechism book


How to read a book
augustus caesar's world
famous men of greece & rome
cat of bubastes
Shakespeare's julias caesar
pilgrim's progress


thanks for any input!

Karen

[mcconnellboys]

I'm also not sure whether to count HS robotics team, JV baseball or civil air patrol as credits or as extra-curricular activities? (I'll talk about this at the end.)

Math - Jacob's Geometry - completed? I'd give a credit for this.

Science- Apologia Biology (no labs) - completed? Bio is no longer a lab science in many schools, so labs aren't necessarily required. I'd assign 1 credit.

History - notgrass world history (no bible or english - just history) - completed? I'd assign 1 credit for world history.

Grammar - Easy Grammar Plus
IEW Student Writing Intensive C
vocabulary from classical roots
Read through the westminster shorter catechism book
How to read a book
augustus caesar's world
famous men of greece & rome
cat of bubastes
Shakespeare's julias caesar
pilgrim's progress

I'd assign one credit of English for all this.

Now, that's only 4 credits for the year. Let's talk about how much time was spent with robotics club? Baseball practices and games? And what does civil air patrol involve?

I might assign 1/2 to 1 credit of PE for the baseball, depending upon time involved, instruction involved, etc. Is it year-round? Or only for one season of the year? Do they include nutritional training (health)?

I might assign at least a 1/2 credit of physics lab work for the robotics team - depends on depth of the work, time spent, etc.

I don't know what civil air patrol involves, so I'm not sure how I'd classify this.....

For the catechism book, how involved is that? Does it include exercises? How long was spent on it? I might assign at least a 1/2 credit for it....

No health this past year? No current events? No art and/or music activities?

It might help you as you go along to keep a daily diary, of sorts, jotting down time spent on various activities. Then you can go back on a monthly basis, etc., and total up time spent in completing various courses.

Cafi Cohen's book "Homeschooling: The Teen Years" is, I believe, the one that gives you lots of good ideas on how to create courses and how to log them for completion of high school credits; how to create your transcript, etc. You might see if your library has any of her books....

[Karen in NE]

were completed. Robotics team was a big time hog. Practices 3 times/week for 4 hours/day for approximately 8 weeks followed by a weekend competition. But I'm not sure he learned a lot. It seemed that the team had a fair number of young members so while he may have learned some, adults did a fair amount of the work.

Baseball starts in early March for pitchers and he's still playing. There was a 2 week break between regular season and Babe Ruth. From March through mid-June, practice or game every weekday for 1.5 - 2 hours.

Civil Air Patrol meets once week for 2.5 hours plus a Saturday every other month. Focus differs every week but alternates between aerospace education, moral leadership, physical training & emergency services.

Yes, he did take art lessons this year. One 2 hour lesson/week between Sept-May.

In typing this out, I'm seeing that part of the reason he's struggling to get regular work done is due somewhat to these 3!

thank you for the book recommendation. I'll pick one up.

[mcconnellboys]

Okay, so based on this, I'd count the robotics team as an activity, rather than a class.

I'd give 1 credit of PE for the baseball.

I'd give 1/2 credit for art if no work outside the lesson was done. If weekly outside work was done, then I'd give 1 credit.

Does the emergency services training in Civil Air Patrol include first aid, CPR, etc.? If enough hours of this sort of work were covered, you might be able to give a 1/2 credit of health for it. Otherwise, I'd just list it as an activity.

[Grace is Sufficient]

I mentally counted the PT in my son's CAP meetings as part of our PE credit. Otherwise, I think it's an extracurricular, and one that is very strong on a transcript.

[Karen in NE]

your advice. I was feeling a little overwhelmed trying to put labels on some of it. I agree that between baseball & PT at CAP, he certainly has earned a PE credit. And, he did have art homework every week so I'll have to look at total hours over the year.

That being said, we do need to beef up his 10th grade year which may be challenging given that he's such a works so slowly.

Karen

[Corraleno]

I would assign 6.5 credits, as follows:

1 Math
1 History
1 English
1 Science
1 PE
1 Art (2 hrs/wk class + 2 hrs/wk @home X 30 wks = 120 hrs = 1 credit*)
.5 Technology (robotics)

Many public schools now require at least a half credit in something like Technology/IT/Computers, and I think the Robotics class should definitely qualify for that. Regarding CAP, most public high schools count JROTC as a PE credit, but since you have plenty of PE hours just with baseball, I would count CAP as an extra curricular activity -- unless you have enough hours in Aerospace Education for a half credit.

In terms of beefing it up next year, adding a 2nd language to your current course lineup would give you a pretty standard 10th grade college prep schedule. If he's a slow reader, maybe something visual like Rosetta Stone would work. You probably do a lot of driving, with all the extracurricular activities, so if you choose a program that's heavy on audio and use the CDs in the car, you could probably log 120 hours of a 2nd language without too much trouble. Even if listening to CDs in the car is all you do, if you do 120* hours and you give him oral quizzes, you could count it as 1 credit in Beginning Conversational Spanish (or whatever language he does).

Also, if you track your hours for English and add some extra literature (maybe even try audiobooks in the car or on his iPod), you might also be able to award 2 English credits, e.g. one course in "English Grammar, Vocabulary & Composition" plus a Literature course: American Lit, British Lit, World Lit, Medieval Lit, Epic Poetry, etc -- whatever works with your history program. Or do a lit course in Science Fiction, Fantasy Literature, or whatever he likes to read for pleasure -- there are lots of study guides and lesson plans for courses like that.

You can also add a .5 Health credit next year by combining CAP activities like emergency services or first aid with things like a CPR course, watching videos on exercise, disease, nutrition, etc. As long as you have 60* hours total you can award a half credit. You could probably put together an all-video health course just with Nova documentaries!

Jackie

(*A standard "Carnegie credit" is 120 hours, but other organizations use different bases. For example, the state of Maine -- and hence NARHS -- only requires 80 hours for 1 credit and 40 hours for .5 credit. So I think there is some flexibility there when parents are assigning credits.)

[Julie in MN]

(*A standard "Carnegie credit" is 120 hours, but other organizations use different bases.

Remember that this is 120 teaching hours, and does not include homework. Personally, I think if we trim it down to 120 total for teaching/homework, then there isn't a lot more time that could be cut out and still call it a credit.

[Karen in NE]

on purchasing Rosetta Stone for this coming fall so we'll add that.

Can audio books count in a literature class or just the books that he actually reads? I had been thinking that it was only books read not necessarily listened to. That would be a tremendous help.

Also, this past year, he read many, many books about WWII. He likes to go to used book stores and pick up books about battles, pilots, etc. For history he did Notgrass World History. If the hours are sufficient, could I count those books as a literature course?

Thanks,
Karen

[Corraleno]

Can audio books count in a literature class or just the books that he actually reads? I had been thinking that it was only books read not necessarily listened to. That would be a tremendous help.
I think it depends on the focus of the course. If the focus is literary analysis and your son does discussions, assignments, essays, etc. on each book, I don't think it matters whether the content of the book enters his brain through his eyes or his ears. :)

My son is dyslexic and a slow reader due to poor decoding skills; I consider "reading remediation" to be a separate course from "Literature," so we often use audio books and read-alouds. Students with reading disabilities can qualify to have even their textbooks as audiobooks, so I don't see why literature can't be audio. Once a student knows how to read, Lit courses are really about style and content, not decoding skills.

Also, this past year, he read many, many books about WWII. He likes to go to used book stores and pick up books about battles, pilots, etc. For history he did Notgrass World History. If the hours are sufficient, could I count those books as a literature course?

Well, if the books are primarily nonfiction, I wouldn't count it as a literature course; maybe another half credit for history? If they were mostly historical fiction and he did some additional work (e.g. a book review or a short essay on each one, or a compare & contrast essay on several books) then I would think you could give a credit (or half credit depending on the number of hours or books) for Historical Fiction. I know that NARHS will give a full English credit for reading 12 novels and writing a short essay for each one.

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Remember that this is 120 teaching hours, and does not include homework. Personally, I think if we trim it down to 120 total for teaching/homework, then there isn't a lot more time that could be cut out and still call it a credit.

Well, this raises some interesting issues regarding homeschool vs public school. :001_smile:

The "120 teaching hours" considered equivalent to 1 Carnegie credit is really just "classroom time" not necessarily "teacher imparting great knowledge time." When I was in PS, a 50 minute "class period" rarely had more than 30 minutes of actual teaching -- if that. Much of the time, we were reading textbooks, working math problems, taking quizzes, talking to our friends, watching the teacher deal with discipline issues, etc. So if you figure a generous 30 minutes of "teaching" per class X 5 classes/wk X 30 weeks, that equals about 75 hours of actual "teaching" in a 1 year PS class. And any given student within that class is probably only being taught something a small percentage of those 75 hours.

So I think it's eminently reasonable for homeschooled students to include all "working hours" in the 120 hour total. And there's really no other way to calculate credit for student research or self-directed learning, where there may be zero "teaching hours" but many many "learning hours." I also think its reasonable to use the standard that Maine & NARHS use (80 hours) or to just use whatever standard the parent thinks makes the most sense for their kids. A student who can focus intensely, blaze through material and retain it all should probably not be held to the same standard number of hours as a student who spends half of his school day sharpening pencils and staring out the window, kwim?

In a typical college class that meets 3 hrs/wk for one semester, there are only about 45 total teaching hours, but that's a full credit for a HS student. Similarly, video or online courses rarely include more than 20-30 hours of actual "instruction," but they can be a complete course worth a full credit. The total video instruction for both Alg I and Alg II on my Chalkdust DVDs is 52 hours -- if I strictly counted "teaching hours" my student would only get 1/4 credit each for Alg I and II! I know that's an absurd situation, I'm just trying to make the point that comparing public high school "classroom hours" to homeschool learning hours is apples and oranges, and I think parents have a lot of legitimate flexibility in determining what is "equivalent" to a public HS credit.

Jackie

[Julie in MN]

Well, this raises some interesting issues regarding homeschool vs public school. :001_smile:

The "120 teaching hours" considered equivalent to 1 Carnegie credit is really just "classroom time" not necessarily "teacher imparting great knowledge time." When I was in PS, a 50 minute "class period" rarely had more than 30 minutes of actual teaching -- if that. Much of the time, we were reading textbooks, working math problems, taking quizzes, talking to our friends, watching the teacher deal with discipline issues, etc. So if you figure a generous 30 minutes of "teaching" per class X 5 classes/wk X 30 weeks, that equals about 75 hours of actual "teaching" in a 1 year PS class. And any given student within that class is probably only being taught something a small percentage of those 75 hours.

So I think it's eminently reasonable for homeschooled students to include all "working hours" in the 120 hour total. And there's really no other way to calculate credit for student research or self-directed learning, where there may be zero "teaching hours" but many many "learning hours." I also think its reasonable to use the standard that Maine & NARHS use (80 hours) or to just use whatever standard the parent thinks makes the most sense for their kids. A student who can focus intensely, blaze through material and retain it all should probably not be held to the same standard number of hours as a student who spends half of his school day sharpening pencils and staring out the window, kwim?

In a typical college class that meets 3 hrs/wk for one semester, there are only about 45 total teaching hours, but that's a full credit for a HS student. Similarly, video or online courses rarely include more than 20-30 hours of actual "instruction," but they can be a complete course worth a full credit. The total video instruction for both Alg I and Alg II on my Chalkdust DVDs is 52 hours -- if I strictly counted "teaching hours" my student would only get 1/4 credit each for Alg I and II! I know that's an absurd situation, I'm just trying to make the point that comparing public high school "classroom hours" to homeschool learning hours is apples and oranges, and I think parents have a lot of legitimate flexibility in determining what is "equivalent" to a public HS credit.

Jackie

Jackie,
Yes, there is nothing here that I didn't realize. What I'm saying is that we are already taking this into account when we shrink the 120 teaching hours + 120 homework hours down to 120 hours of teaching & homework. So to shrink it down a lot more than that *In My Opinion* gets down to very little. Yes, college courses have very little teaching time, but they have a LOT of homework time.

The easiest thing is to just "finish the book" -- which doesn't matter whether you do it slowly or quickly. A high school "book" is just what the standard expectation is for a high schooler in that subject.

It's just when you're "creating your own credits" that it gets tricky. 120 hours per year is about 3 hours of work per week (in a typical 36 week school year), of course averaging out what should be done in 3 hours by an average student.

Of course we each have our own school with our own rules, but I'm really surprised that Maine/NAHRS would require only 2 hours of total time spent learning each week.

[Corraleno]

(BTW, I didn't mean to direct any of this specifically at you, Julie, I just wanted to clarify what public school credits are actually based on, so parents can decide how they want to assign credit to their own students.)

The Carnegie unit is based on 50 minutes of "class or contact time with an instructor" 5 times/wk for 30 weeks; the NARHS credit unit is based on 30 minutes of class or contact time 5 times/wk for 32 weeks. It doesn't matter whether a teacher assigns tons of homework or none at all, and it doesn't matter if the students spend most of their class time in independent study rather than direct instruction; if the "class time" adds up to 120 hours (or 80 for NARHS) and the student completes the assignments and passes any tests, then the course is worth 1 credit.

In a homeschool situation, "class time" might consist of a student sitting at a desk doing math, or carrying out experiments in the kitchen, or doing research on the computer. "Contact time with an instructor" might consist of an animated academic discussion at the dinner table or in the car. Since that is the homeschool equivalent of "in class," students can legitimately get credit for those hours.

Obviously it's up to the parent how many hours of work they wish to require in order to award one credit -- one parent may want to see 120 hours of direct instruction and another 80 hours of homework, whlie another may consider 80 hours of total "schoolwork" adequate for credit in a particular subject. That's the beauty of homeschooling. :001_smile:

Jackie

[SheWhoWaits]

I'm also not sure whether to count HS robotics team, JV baseball or civil air patrol as credits or as extra-curricular activities?
Something to keep in mind is that if he is preparing for college, he will need some substantial extra- curriculars to look good to colleges. So some of these could be for credit, but don't use ALL of his extra- curriculars as credit.

Math - Jacob's Geometrydefinitely one math credit
Science- Apologia Biology (no labs)I think the labs are important. I wouldn't give a full credit without them. Most colleges require 2-3 lab sciences
History - notgrass world history (no bible or english - just history)definitely one history credit

Read through the westminster shorter catechism book 1/2 - 1 religion credit, depending on whether you discussed it or had him do writing to respond to it



Grammar - Easy Grammar Plus
IEW Student Writing Intensive C
vocabulary from classical roots
How to read a book
augustus caesar's world
famous men of greece & rome
cat of bubastes
Shakespeare's julias caesar
pilgrim's progress
This sounds like a pretty hefty English credit. How much time per week did he spend on this? If more than 4 hours, I'd give 1 1/2 - 2 English credits. Maybe you could cut back on English and use the time for other subjects.