Am I missing the point of IEW?

[Michelle T]

After much agonizing over writing curriculums, I recently purchased IEW. I bought the TWSS, and have watched the first DVD, on units 1 and 2. I've also read through the program syllabus.

Either I'm confused, or I'm missing something. It seems that all IEW does it teach the child to rephrase notes taken off whatever source material they are reading. I don't see basic concepts such as how to write a paragraph, no explanation of main idea, supporting ideas, etc. While I do definitely think being able to take good notes, and then write a paper from that research is a great skill, isn't there more to writing? IEW doesn't seem to cover things like persuasive writing, opinion writing, or anything that would be written without the benefit of notes taken off someone else's writing.

I thought this would be a good choice for my DS, but he's a creative sort of guy who needs assistance in how to write coherent, correct sentences, paragraphs, and different types of writing. I'm thinking he's going to hate just endlessly taking key word outlines, then rephrasing those outlines.

So, am I missing something? Does IEW eventually teach writing that's not just rephrasing someone else's work? Does it teach how to write an opinion piece, a description, a persuasive paper?
Michelle T :confused:

[kRenee]

Well, units 1 and 2 do not represent the whole program. They are a means to an end. The things you are looking for are in the more advanced stuff. I think the idea is to get kids writing with style, then gradually make them adhere to the confines of topic sentence and supporting details. The types of essay come up later as well.

There are two parallel themes within IEW. One is the report kind of writing (units 4,6,8) and the other is more creative (units 3,5,7,9). Units 1 and 2 are used in them all.

[cbollin]

I'm curious what was meant by "this is covered in the more advanced stuff". Does that mean it is covered in the continuation courses (SICC??) or do you mean it is covered in the later units of TWSS or in SWI C??

I have the same reflections about IEW that Michelle has and I've watched beyond units 1 and 2. We even used SWI A. I want my child to put her own thoughts down on paper not just learn how to reformat someone else's stuff. kwim? When does IEW wean them from that reformat style or does it assume those skills are taught somehow else? I felt like we missed the same things that Michelle brought up. My oldest could follow the IEW format of KWO, dress ups, etc. and reformat someone else's words, but sadly, it didn't seem to carry over to help her get her own words down with other assignments that weren't in the same structure as a summary or something. And I always wondered if I missed something in it too?? And that was one of the reasons we went back to another program even though that program is not as user friendly.

-crystal

[Kimber]

As I understand SWI C, IEW is based on working from an outline. That outline for Units 1 and 2 come from the writing model. Later that outline comes from taking notes from a lecture, from research, or from one's on brainstorming on a topic.

The paragraph structure will eventually be taught as well as how to structure a 5 paragraph essay or 7 paragraph essay or 7 page paper.

Some of my kids don't like the outlining portion. They'd rather write by the seat of their pants. But I think it helps them to identify what's important and to stay on target with what to write. I have one kid in my class that rambles on and on.

HTH

[GVA]

Units I through V are preparation for Units VI through IX where you are making your own notes for your own writing. SWI-A really focuses on Unit I through IV, and then briefly hits Unit VII. Both the SICC and the later tapes of TWSS focus on more creative-type writing. If you go through the entire program, the student does rely less and less on other's writing and more and more on their own thoughts.

A common error with those who use IEW is to also get "stuck" in Units I and II and not move on to the other ones because they feel that the child doesn't completely "have" it. This is not recommended. Even if you have to help the child through the higher units, you need to move on with the idea that you'll run through the units each year with greater mastery each time. The originator of this way of teaching (Dr. Webster) actually used it with 1st graders, having the teacher prompt and write for the children as necessary.

[Julie in GA]

The kinds of things you're looking for may be better explored using Classical Writing. Have you checked this out?

[angela in ohio]

I'm curious what was meant by "this is covered in the more advanced stuff". Does that mean it is covered in the continuation courses (SICC??) or do you mean it is covered in the later units of TWSS or in SWI C??
-crystal

It is covered in the later units of the TWSS.

Many people just judge IEW from the first two units. I really encourage everyone to watch it the entire way through before deciding (and definitely before reviewing it for others,) if they don't already have an overview of the program (from a conference talk or such.)

[JuJuBee]

I want my child to put her own thoughts down on paper not just learn how to reformat someone else's stuff. kwim?

IMO, essay test questions (which are essentially all I ever had in my university/grad school history/lit classes) are often based on notes/lectures/information given in class. An ability to organize and reformulate someone else's thoughts is critical to success in that area. Coming up with your own ideas about Whatever-It-Is is much broader endeavor (since it would cover everything from literary analysis to creative descriptive writing to researching a particular topic), but once the information is present and an outline made, the writing process is essentially the same whether the information comes from an individual's creative mind, outside research, or from a source text.

[mmclassics]

IEW was fabulous for my disorganized articulate son who HATED to write. We identified a visual processing problem called Irlen at the end of 4th grade and brought him home for the 5th grade. We used the theme based writing through Classical Conversations for the next two years. The third year included a Bible based IEW theme, but more composition work was completed through other subjects.

Before IEW, he had a horrible time writing papers. The process was painful, almost to the point of tears, even though he could converse with anyone about almost any topic fluently. He usually wrote the key-word outlines manually, but eventually did most of that on the computer as well. He typed his papers, because that worked for much better for him. It was a slow beginning, but he learned the process. I view this course as a grammar stage for composition. It gave my son the basic building blocks to complete a paper - with no fear. While the dress-ups can seem a bit flowery during this process, and an experienced mom might chuckle at the familiar vocabulary words, each child can actually add a lot of creativity into these papers. It eliminated the fear of "What will I write about today?" It also eliminated my fear of having delivering vague "You could do better than this," comments. Children in our co-op enjoy reading their papers to each other each week. While their skeleton is the same, the flavor and technique levels are not.

My son completed two years of the theme based IEW course. His grammar was learned through the Classical Conversations course that has much in common with Shurley grammar. The Challenge A, or 7th grade level required papers almost weekly. By that time, he had no fear of organizing and writing a paper. I think this is one of the greatest gifts we can give any student, and I am thrilled that he has earned this level of confidence BEFORE beginning the eighth grade.

We have enrolled him in a challenging classical christian school this year. These tedious checklists and formats gave him the framework to complete any written assignment. He regularly receives praise for his papers, and was awarded second place in a writing contest for the Veterans of Foreign Wars. I think he has a book or two percolating in his head as well. He has needed reminders to complete his homework BEFORE he gets to his own creative writing project.

While my son does have a preference for language over mathematics, his disorganized brain never had a way of putting it all together in a coherent fashion before we began using IEW. This past year I took my dd out of school in order to enroll her in the same Classical Conversations co-op. The group environment and time to focus on the IEW curriculum were some of the biggest reasons that I want her there. She already enjoys creative writing, but this has given her new tools to critique her own stories. Her evaluation. "It is a great way to learn to use exciting words and more interesting patterns in your writing. It is hard work, but it has really helped me learn how to write in a more interesting way."

I couldn't agree more.

[MeghanL]

IEW does allow for some creative writing. We used it with Veritas Press in 2nd grade and will continue to use it. One of my favorite papers by my son was a story he wrote about a bird & a garden hose. IEW gave him 3 pictures and then he composed the rest. We both loved it because it gave us a good starting point other than "Write about your favorite....". It is also highly dependent on how involved you want to be with it. It is flexible enough to be used with any curriculum or books that you are already reading. And the flexibility extends to the different genres of writing. But it is something you as the parent need to put together since it's not in a workbook format of an assignment each day. But I like it precisely because I don't have to have a separate subject of writing.

[Roxy Roller]

I'm thinking he's going to hate just endlessly taking key word outlines, then rephrasing those outlines.


This is exactly why we crashed and burned with IEW. My DD started to hate writing after the first two units. In hindsight, I wish that I would have had the confidence to go on to the next units, and skipped the extra practice. I am considering using parts of TWSS again, but I would have to disguise it so that my DD wouldn't realize we are doing the same program. I like SWB's method of outlining better(which is what we do now), so I would take out the key word outlines.

[Shannon831]

This is exactly why we crashed and burned with IEW. My DD started to hate writing after the first two units. In hindsight, I wish that I would have had the confidence to go on to the next units, and skipped the extra practice. I am considering using parts of TWSS again, but I would have to disguise it so that my DD wouldn't realize we are doing the same program. I like SWB's method of outlining better(which is what we do now), so I would take out the key word outlines.

The IEW theme programs are a big help to get you actually moving through all of the units. I watched twss, but didn't quite get how to implement it on my own. We used the Ancients themed writing to really get us through the program. I am EXTREMELY happy with the results. DD is in public school now and is a confident writer, who gets A's on every writing assignment. I didn't see this type of writing out of her until IEW.

[Aconnolley]

I like SWB's method of outlining better(which is what we do now), so I would take out the key word outlines.

I'm just wondering....how are they different? We haven't used IEW yet, and my oldest will be in 5th next year. This is new territory for me.


I'm enjoying this thread. Thanks to the OP for posting it. :001_smile:
Angela

[Kleine Hexe]

I'm also curious as how SWB and IEW outlines are different.

I'm trying to decide if I should switch to IEW after completing WWE. I'm also wondering if I could do WWS and use the IEW theme books to supplement.

[calandalsmom]

I dont understand why you would continue doing units one and two if you child is proficient.

The whole point of IEW is to move thru the units and not get stuck in 1 and 2.

The skill set being taught in one and two is
selecting important information
formulating sentences based on that information
combining sentences into paragraphs.


Once you can do that you need to move to writing reports from multiple sources using fused outlines (NOT keyword outlines)

Creative writing is VERY easily taught using the IEW method.

Pick a fable.

Change the characters and setting. Keep the plot but twist the problem to suit the characters (guess what? Whomever said there are only 7 original plots was right) and rewrite using your imagination.


My ds produced a Belling the Cat inspired fable about pigs without thumbs which was hilarious.


I got a tremendous amt of insight into prolific successful writers thanks to IEW. I know now how all time best selling author JD Robb (aka whatshername who writes romances) does it.

All writing is format writing, ad if you learn that early on you have the perfect framework to build your own very imaginative and very well crafted original works.

[In2why]

I was lucky enough to get my hands on them for a couple of weeks before deciding whether I should buy them. I decided not to. I think they are decent programs, but I also believe there are other decent programs for less money, and that are less confusing. I prefer WWE, but I do use the "cheat sheets" contained in every IEW book. The strong verbs, ly words, banned words, and bought a file folder with all of those reminders on them at the CC booth at our convention. I hope to combine the best of both worlds.

[darlasowders]

IMO, essay test questions (which are essentially all I ever had in my university/grad school history/lit classes) are often based on notes/lectures/information given in class. An ability to organize and reformulate someone else's thoughts is critical to success in that area. Coming up with your own ideas about Whatever-It-Is is much broader endeavor (since it would cover everything from literary analysis to creative descriptive writing to researching a particular topic), but once the information is present and an outline made, the writing process is essentially the same whether the information comes from an individual's creative mind, outside research, or from a source text.

:iagree: with the bolded above.

And keep watching--there are seven more units. If it still doesn't appeal, send it back or resell it here.

[Roxy Roller]

I don't understand why you would continue doing units one and two if you child is proficient.

The whole point of IEW is to move thru the units and not get stuck in 1 and 2.

The skill set being taught in one and two is
selecting important information
formulating sentences based on that information
combining sentences into paragraphs.


Once you can do that you need to move to writing reports from multiple sources using fused outlines (NOT keyword outlines)



I know this now. At the time, I thought we had to drag ourselves through the units. As I said in my prior post, I wish I had had the confidence to move to the next unit.

[Roxy Roller]

I'm also curious as how SWB and IEW outlines are different.

I'm trying to decide if I should switch to IEW after completing WWE. I'm also wondering if I could do WWS and use the IEW theme books to supplement.

IEW teaches key word outlines, which basically means what it says. You pick out the key words of a paragraph and then re-write from your outlines.

SWB's method is laid out in the latest WTM and is a little more based on choosing the main idea of a paragraph and then details. She has questions to help you with the process. I have not seen WWS, but I believe it goes through this process.

[Roxy Roller]

The IEW theme programs are a big help to get you actually moving through all of the units. I watched twss, but didn't quite get how to implement it on my own. We used the Ancients themed writing to really get us through the program. I am EXTREMELY happy with the results. DD is in public school now and is a confident writer, who gets A's on every writing assignment. I didn't see this type of writing out of her until IEW.

I have looked at the theme programs and I am considering the Medieval Times program for next year.

[Kleine Hexe]

Do you have to spend the money on TWSS if you use the theme books?

[calandalsmom]

IEW teaches key word outlines, which basically means what it says. You pick out the key words of a paragraph and then re-write from your outlines.

SWB's method is laid out in the latest WTM and is a little more based on choosing the main idea of a paragraph and then details. She has questions to help you with the process. I have not seen WWS, but I believe it goes through this process.

Iew moves beyond kwo after units 1 and 2.