Please tell me what I'm doing wrong...(sibling rivalry, attitudes, etc.)...

[Sue G in PA]

I'm going to TRY to make this short. :) My children are capable of getting along. I've seen them. Really. Why is it that it seems they CHOOSE to fight? CHOOSE to argue? CHOOSE to hurt one another? I'm really not sure what I'm doing wrong (if anything) or how to remedy the situation. They go outside to play...30 sec. later a child comes in crying b/c "so and so hit me or called me this name or looked at me cross-eyed.". I choose not to get in the middle. Go back and play nice. 30 sec. later another dc comes in yelling that "it's not fair, so and so has been riding the bike for-e-ver (note: they've been outside for less than 5 minutes) and won't let me have a turn.". No, they don't all have bikes...we can't afford it. Do they simply have too much unstructured free time?

Attitudes. It's constant. They don't get their way...attitude. They have to do an assignment that they don't want...attitude. They don't get what they want...NOW...attitude. They are asked to do something to help out...attitude. It's like WE (the parents) are infringing upon their time, plans, etc. Now, before you tell me they need limits...they have them. Before you tell me they need discipline...they've got it. We are strict and sometimes too harsh w/ consequences. Behavior continues. It gets worse. I'm just not doing well at this parenting thing right now and to think...we're having another :eek: WHAT? Anyway, thanks for letting me vent, rant, complain, cry, etc. I'm just really tired of all the bickering and tattling and attitudes and feeling like I'm somehow interfering in this "separate world" that my children have created for themselves, KWIM?

[A home for their hearts]

I completely know where you are coming from! Although I really don't have any advice, just know that you are not alone! I called my dc to me earlier to read a book to them and they drugged their feet and grumbled the whole way! I felt like how dare I do something so horrible as read a book?!:rolleyes:

[CalicoKat]

I'm going to TRY to make this short. :) My children are capable of getting along. I've seen them. Really. Why is it that it seems they CHOOSE to fight? CHOOSE to argue? CHOOSE to hurt one another? I'm really not sure what I'm doing wrong (if anything) or how to remedy the situation. They go outside to play...30 sec. later a child comes in crying b/c "so and so hit me or called me this name or looked at me cross-eyed.". I choose not to get in the middle. Go back and play nice. 30 sec. later another dc comes in yelling that "it's not fair, so and so has been riding the bike for-e-ver (note: they've been outside for less than 5 minutes) and won't let me have a turn.". No, they don't all have bikes...we can't afford it. Do they simply have too much unstructured free time?

Attitudes. It's constant. They don't get their way...attitude. They have to do an assignment that they don't want...attitude. They don't get what they want...NOW...attitude. They are asked to do something to help out...attitude. It's like WE (the parents) are infringing upon their time, plans, etc. Now, before you tell me they need limits...they have them. Before you tell me they need discipline...they've got it. We are strict and sometimes too harsh w/ consequences. Behavior continues. It gets worse. I'm just not doing well at this parenting thing right now and to think...we're having another :eek: WHAT? Anyway, thanks for letting me vent, rant, complain, cry, etc. I'm just really tired of all the bickering and tattling and attitudes and feeling like I'm somehow interfering in this "separate world" that my children have created for themselves, KWIM?

this is just typical kids stuff. I think you're off to a good start realizing that you can't be the person to figure out and resolve their arguments. I realized that last summer because I knew that I was only ever hearing one side of the story and sometimes I was handing out discipline unnecessarily because I didn't know it all.

Around here when there is an argument and I get called by one of the offenders I listen to them and then I ask, "Did you tell your sister what you just told me?" Generally there isn't communication going to between the two and their argument is resolved when they stop and look each other in the face.

If it continues I coach the kid who comes to me on how to communicate their feelings and thoughts. "Why don't you tell your sister that you're waiting for your turn on the bike. Did you remember to ask her when she'll be done?" Teaching them to communicate and coaching them how to resolve their arguments. It takes about a week and then they've got it.

Sharing. We have 4 kids sharing a computer. This is a tricky one. We've taught them how to use a timer and they self-govern it's use when they're taking turns with it. Some days everyone is doing 30 minute turns. Other days they're generous with each other and they're doing 45 minutes. They all respect their chosen method of sharing the computer because if there's a fight then the computer doesn't get to be played with for the rest of the day by all. I don't tell them any longer how to share something. I tell them to figure out a way to play together so everyone is happy or I'll have to take it away. They have come up with some pretty interesting solutions. It's fun to see them communicating

Attitudes. This is my current battle zone too. I tend to loose it when the kids cop and attitude with me. So I've turned my focus inward. I have to remain calm. I must not yell. I must not repeat myself more than once. I must not yell. I must not allow myself to get sucked into their vortex of ugly attitudes. :) It's rough. But the consequences are there already and I can use them. I don't feel so bad about using them either when I have worked up a sweat role modeling a good attitude. Let them rant and rave. And stick to the consequences. The consequences will work. Consistency is key. Consequences work more quickly when I've been a good role model.

I have one dd (ADHD) who is independently responsible for my hair loss. If I even start countering her sass, arguments, and tempertantrums the original reason for the encounter is forgotten. Instead it becomes a battle of the wills. She's bound and determined never to let me win, be right, or correct her. So I don't. I simply say what I need done. I say what's going to happen if it's not done. And then I take a step back, breathe deeply, force myself to remain calm. My other kids quickly caught on after 1-2 of these moments.

[Ginger]

Calico,
Can you please tell me what your consequences are for the bad attitudes? I have had a super rough week with my ds7. He has called me names, hit me, tells me no etc etc etc. He has been spanked, grounded, lost game boy, tv, play time,and it currently serving detention in his room and writing "I will not tell my mom and sisters to shut up" 10 times. (hey, I had to try something!)
Everytime he sasses me, it infuriates me so that it becomes a power struggle between us. I know I have to control myself...but I need to know what consequences to lay out before hand that are appropriate for his behavior.

[myfunnybunch]

'cause we're in the same boat.:eek:

It's normal. Today, I reminded myself several times that my lovely children were not born perfect.

I came up with some plans to deal with these exact behaviors.

Hitting/pushing/name-calling: The offender clearly cannot play appropriately with others. That child must sit on his bed or play alone inside.

Attitudes: Try, try again. They must practice an appropriate response until they get it "right".

But here's the real key that we hit upon, the one that's made all the difference: Praise, reward and teaching. I set up a quarter jar. When I see any behavior I'd like to encourage-- unexpected kindness, cheerful obedience, staying on task, working things out politely, helpfulness-- I drop a quarter in the jar, making sure to describe specifically the behaviors I saw. When there are enough quarters we go for ice cream or to the bookstore. If we're having a bad day, I really search for those opportunities to praise and reward and describe the behaviors that I want to encourage.

And we've started talking a lot about attitudes of obedience, leadership, and living a life of love and good cheer. I really emphasize that we all have feelings, but we can often make choices about our responses. We talk about ways to be good leaders and helpers to one another.

I remember feeling as a child that adults really were a separate world in some ways. The key for us has been working on instilling attitudes and behaviors that carry over into that world as much as possible. Of course my children aren't perfect...but it's getting better little by little.

I don't think it's about a specific strategy, like a quarter jar or a smiley-face chart or talks about "having a good attitude", by the way. What's made the biggest difference for us has been moving the emphasis from conqequences-only to focusing on teaching, on meaningful praise ("I know you've been working hard at staying on task and I noticed that you were successful while doing your math" as opposed to "Good job!"), and on guidance as our primary interventions.

Cat

[WTMindy]

When my kids get into little bouts of bickering, I tell them that it sounds like they need some teamwork practice. So, I assign them an unpleasant job to do together, like washing the floors or something. If they can't work together with good attitudes, then they get "more practice." They seem to work together so they don't have to do another job, and it takes care of the problem. I have only had to assign more than 1 chore once. Usually I just have to say, "It sounds like you need some teamwork practice" and they try to fix it on their own.

[Denise in IN]

When my kids get into little bouts of bickering, I tell them that it sounds like they need some teamwork practice. So, I assign them an unpleasant job to do together, like washing the floors or something. If they can't work together with good attitudes, then they get "more practice." They seem to work together so they don't have to do another job, and it takes care of the problem. I have only had to assign more than 1 chore once. Usually I just have to say, "It sounds like you need some teamwork practice" and they try to fix it on their own.

This is a great idea! I think my boys (they're 6 & 8) will be getting some "teamwork practice" soon!

[Sue G in PA]

It was really just a rough day all around. But, unfortunately, it wasn't an a-typical day in our household. Dd11 is the oldest and the "only" girl (dd2 is so distanced from her in age that it's really like she's the only girl!). Then there are 4 "stairstep" boys (9,8,6,5) who like the same things, play the same way, do "boy" things that dd11 just has no interest in. At our co-op, there seems to be plenty of younger girls (K-4) and plenty of older girls (7th-12th), but NONE her age! Seriously! Her best friend moved away last year and she doesn't see her often. She's lost contact w/ her old ps friends. She has one good friend at church but they don't see each other except at church! I really do feel for her. That is part of the problem on her end and the reason I see a lot of attitude from her. It's her against "the boys" and in her mind...she always loses.

Anyway, thanks for the great suggestions (quarter jar, teamwork practice, modeling, etc.). I'm going to take some time tomorrow to evaluate the "whens and whys" of the worst "fights" and figure out a plan (and run it by dh when he gets home :)). Thanks again!

[HiddenJewel]

One thing I have done is when they are in a tiff, to have them tell 3 (or 1) nice things about the other person. It kind of takes the steam out of a fight. But down deep it is a heart issue and one they have to decide internally they want to change. The older they are, the more that responsibility is theirs. My 12 and 11yo argue and pick at each other a lot. We are working on being humble and not thinking you are more important than someone else. That's what it usually boils down to in our house.

[CalicoKat]

Calico,
Can you please tell me what your consequences are for the bad attitudes? I have had a super rough week with my ds7. He has called me names, hit me, tells me no etc etc etc. He has been spanked, grounded, lost game boy, tv, play time,and it currently serving detention in his room and writing "I will not tell my mom and sisters to shut up" 10 times. (hey, I had to try something!)
Everytime he sasses me, it infuriates me so that it becomes a power struggle between us. I know I have to control myself...but I need to know what consequences to lay out before hand that are appropriate for his behavior.

The consequences for each of my children are different because each finds motivation in their own passions. What is your son passionate about? One of my kids is absolutely passionate about playstation. A consequence for him is to loose minutes from the hour he gets a day to play his favorite games. Another child of mine is passionate about baking. If she's good she gets to bake whaever we have ingrediants for in the house. My ADHD dd--still looking for her passions, but it does seem that dangling a manicure has a teeny bit of motivation. :)

What your describing about your son I think goes beyond attitudes. If he were in my home dh and I would "set him up" to have an episode with me while dh is nearby. Dh then would intervene and do the man-to-man "you musn't speak to your mother that way" conversation. I think what your son is doing would be better addressed by your dh. BTW who does he hear speaking to women this way? If no one, then you dh can use this "Daddy doesn't speak to mommy this way and you won't either."

My little boys have all done this to me and it only takes a couple growls from their father, man-to-man, to get them to respect me. Boys respond better to their father's correction in this way better. It's a guy thingy. Alpha male intervention :)

For drastic moments when daddy isn't home I do something we call shadowing or tomato staking. There's a rug in my home for this purpose. The child has to sit quietly, no toys, for an age appropriate time (which gets longer w/ each offense). No yelling, just "Please get on the rug. You're my shadow now." Their time doesn't start until they "compose" themselves. It's inconvenient but believe me it only takes a couple days/times. Be sure to plan your most boring tasks to do during their "shadow" time. :) Nothing like watching Ma type on her computer for a half hour.

Hang in there. Stock up on stuff that makes you relax (chocolate, good coffee/tea, great perfume, Bible verses on handy ref. cards. etc)

This too shall pass.

P.S. I love the word you used, infuriates. It is such an appropriate picture of how I feel in these moments too. I'm not by nature a calm or patient person. It is my desire to not pass this flaw of my onto my children.

[Joanne]

To the OP:

When my home gets chronically irritating, full of attitude, complaints and "issues", I evaluate our life. Too much TV/screen time is often a factor. Poor sleep, poor quality food, not enough balance between structure/free play and/or outside the home/hometime.

If my kids are being disrespectful with their mouth, I try to always look at the adults' recent example first.:eek:

After looking at that, and making necessary changes, here are some helps:

1) For chronic, petty "tattling", I've had times when I've told the kids that "the tattler gets the same consequence as the person being told on".

2) If a toy is being quibbled over, the toy goes away.

3) Our rule is "respect for people" and "respect for property". If you aren't able to honor that, you've made the choice to be alone.

The book "How to Stop Bad Attitude, Complaining and Bad Behavior in You and Your Kids" by Scott Turansky and Joanne Miller is excellent. It's all about building honor into family relationships.

Can you please tell me what your consequences are for the bad attitudes? I have had a super rough week with my ds7. He has called me names, hit me, tells me no etc etc etc. He has been spanked, grounded, lost game boy, tv, play time,and it currently serving detention in his room and writing "I will not tell my mom and sisters to shut up" 10 times. (hey, I had to try something!)
Everytime he sasses me, it infuriates me so that it becomes a power struggle between us. I know I have to control myself...but I need to know what consequences to lay out before hand that are appropriate for his behavior.

In what way does the "attitude" express?

I stay away from imposed consequences that aren't related to the issue. Therefore physical discipline, grounding (which often punishes me!), loss of screen time are not options. IMO, making a 7 year old boy write can be counter productive to changing an attitude. :)

[Jenstet]

I have nothing to say that will help except that my kids fight too...all the time. 2, 5, 9. They are always at each other. I feel like I am doing something wrong too especially when I see those cute families at homeschool groups that are all helping each other.

[Robin Hood]

I have one dd (ADHD) who is independently responsible for my hair loss. If I even start countering her sass, arguments, and tempertantrums the original reason for the encounter is forgotten. Instead it becomes a battle of the wills. She's bound and determined never to let me win, be right, or correct her. So I don't. I simply say what I need done. I say what's going to happen if it's not done. And then I take a step back, breathe deeply, force myself to remain calm. My other kids quickly caught on after 1-2 of these moments.

Are you me?

[CalicoKat]

To the OP:

The book "How to Stop Bad Attitude, Complaining and Bad Behavior in You and Your Kids" by Scott Turansky and Joanne Miller is excellent. It's all about building honor into family relationships.

:)
I'm going to go dig it out and re-read it for a refresher.

[CalicoKat]

Are you me?
:)