Is this normal for a new 3yo? (plus excessive mommy angst)

[forty-two]

Ok, I kept telling myself I wasn't going to do this - ask whether my oldest was advanced - because I struggle with trying not to obsess over it. I'm gifted, my sister's gifted - smartest ones in our large suburban high school (which makes it ironic that I didn't even manage to graduate college, what with having a massive depression-induced meltdown and all :glare:), my parents are gifted, my dh is extremely bright. I've wanted to hs ever since I first heard about it (freshman year of college), largely because I was never challenged in school - wanted to keep my kids from wasting their time (not that I sat around bored or anything - I read 2-3 books a day from sixth grade on). Always kinda assumed my kids would be at least as bright as me - looked forward to it, really. I've never understood people not wanting their child to be gifted - especially people who are gifted themselves. I love what I can do - I can't imagine being any other way - and, like most parents, I want my kids to have the chance to share my (good) experiences.

But once I had R, I tried to stop the "of course she will be gifted" train of thought - didn't want to place any undue expectations on her, one way or another. "She is who she is, I love her no matter what - it doesn't matter whether she is gifted, so quit thinking about it." I'm mostly successful, but threads where someone's very young child blatantly shows off their giftedness would start me thinking in spite of myself that, "R doesn't do that - maybe she isn't <smack> - Don't go there....Well, I didn't do that either at that age, and I know I'm <smack> - What did I just say! Stop that!"

Then, of course, are the times when I see her do something, and I think, "What was I worried about! Of course she is <smack> - Quit that! Just enjoy the awesome thing she did without trying to turn it in to something bigger." And really, I could care less about the label - I just want her (and her sister) to be able to see the world like I do, like dh does, like my family does. Sure, we all see things differently, but in general things just make *sense*. But apparently it's not like that for most people (Or so people say. I'm not sure I actually believe it.). And it grieves me to think that my kids might never experience that - I literally cannot imagine what it would be like if my brain didn't work like it did - like losing a limb.

(Although I have no way of knowing how many other people's brains work like mine. I've been told not all that many, but everyone I know well is like me, so...who knows. I don't want to sound arrogant - for all know, I may be just like everyone else in how my brain works. Doesn't matter, I still am happy with it :). And want my kids to have at least as good a thinking experience as I have.)

So I avoided asking for outside assessment, as I wasn't sure on most things if it was truly advanced or just wishful thinking. Also, I wasn't sure I wanted to hear the answer. But a couple things really stand out to me - have for a long time - and I've decided it's time to make sure my "mommy scale" is properly calibrated with respect to reality. Either way, R is who she is, and can do what she can do, no matter how common or uncommon it may be.

And now, after five paragraphs of excessively angsty rambling - this is the first I've ever actually put all that in words, on (virtual) paper - rather cathartic actually (assuming I don't get lambasted either for being a horrible, pushy mother, or for arrogantly thinking I'm all that, of course) - on to the actual question at hand:

R just turned three. Two things I've noticed is that she seems to have a very good visual memory, and she is very good at making connections, especially with visual things. Some examples:

*Before she was two, she could remember where things were put after seeing it once. A noticeable incident was when we bought some oatmeal breakfast bars - not a regular event, and this was actually the first time. We kept them in a closed cabinet out of her reach and I got one out with her watching. The next day she wanted one, so she "asked" (delayed talker, didn't say more than three words till after her second birthday) by dragging me to the kitchen, pointing to the cabinet, and signing for food. She also recognized DVD cases and even the DVDs themselves - knew what movie they went with (and threw a royal fit if the DVD wasn't for the movie she wanted to watch!) - before she was two.

*She could identify all the letters in the alphabet, out of order, at 22 months; she couldn't say any of the names, but if I said, "Point to the F," she could do it. This took about 2-3 months, and was completely child-led; she kinda became obsessed with the alphabet at 20 months, and had me read her alphabet book repeatedly. She'd point to letters everywhere, and have me tell her what they were. She lost interest around 23 months, and picked it back it around 25-26 months, where she quickly learned to say all the names, and loved (still loves!) to point out letters everywhere. Knows both upper and lower case, and rarely has had trouble with different fonts. A couple months ago she was interested in learning the letter sounds, so I started teaching her the SWR phonograms, using her books. She has the one letter ones down cold, now. She picked up her numbers, 1-10, about the same time as her letters, and in the same way. She loves to count things, and is getting close to developing one-to-one correspondence.

*I bought Greek and Hebrew alphabet books in January, and kinda "strewed" them about. She latched on to the Greek one, and it was her favorite for about a month or so. Picked it back up in April/May, along with the Hebrew one, and she has the Greek alphabet, with their sounds, down cold. She's familiar with the Hebrew alphabet - she could name quite a few out of order in another context - but hasn't wanted to learn their sounds yet.

I have the impression this is somewhat early for alphabet learning, especially given that it was largely child-led; I occasionally would introduce new things, so she'd know they existed, but never pushed it or sat her down for lessons or anything. But it's not like it is cognitively hard, or anything - just needs a good memory, which she has in spades. I think her memory is better than average, but have nothing to compare it with.

*Connection-wise, the big thing I've noticed is she manages to correctly identify things unaided and unprompted - animals, usually - that she learned in a completely different setting. She connected live animals in movies (without them being named) - elephants, zebras, etc. - with the cartoon animals in a book (badly drawn ones, at that). She connected Shrek the ogre with the ogres in World of Warcraft (and was upset with dh for killing them!). She connected the donkey Mary rode with Donkey in Shrek. Plus tons of others. She did this as soon as she could talk (25 months - most of what I related happened around then, or within a few months), and I think even before that, via pointing, but I can't remember specific incidents there. It seems impressive to me, but again, nothing to compare it with. (Actually, it is impressive to me, period, even if it is perfectly normal. I love it when she makes connections!)

Overall, she has loved books since he was little - turned pages well, in a paper book, at 10 months. She will give me a stack of books and have me read through them all, sometimes repeatedly. From the beginning, R was very observant, very persistent, and had a good attention span; A, at 7mo, is equally observant and persistent, with just as good an attention span (so I don't know if it is just how babies are or what, but a lot of people have commented about the observation thing), but is more easy-going than R.

So, what sayeth the Hive? (Or, more accurately, what sayeth the few brave souls who actually made it through this monstrosity of a post :tongue_smilie:)

[AnneC]

This may not be the best board to ask if this is normal:) It is completely normal for my kids but I'm not sure that my kids are "normal" in these regards. You are doing a good job following her lead and giving her what she needs. She'll let you know if you aren't. If she's anything like my kids there is no way you can push her to do what she is not ready for/interested in either. The most helpful thing I've discovered is to not worry about what is normal and just do what the kids need when they need it. In fact when I taught dd to read before she turned 3 I didn't even ask the question, I was just doing what she asked for. I didn't even think about giftedness until she was 4.5 and doing 2nd grade math.

HTH

[Pamela H in Texas]

I was you.

My own identity was tied very much to my ability.
I don't think anyone really instilled it in me but I certainly learned it.

I took it WAY far. I basically decided giftedness was a curse.
Like you, I stressed about my responses (internal) about my child.
And I made choices along the way with my oldest that I wish I hadn't made.

From now on, instead of such an extreme response (such as SMACK-QUIT THAT!), just acknowledge it and move on. It'll become a puff of smoke over the trees that barely gets your attention rather than such a big deal. As you train yourself, you'll relax on the rest also. And you'll simply meet your daughter where she is and get to that place of pure acceptance, not evaluating, that you want to be in.

Seriously, even if your daughter were reading chapter books, multiplying fractions, and writing full pages, you'd be having these responses (ask me how I know). It really is about you retraining your responses. Maybe you, like I, have some serious issues with what you or others put you through (probably unintentionally). Deal with those things and the feelings that accompany so you can get past them and just enjoy and educate your kiddo(s).

I hope this helps a little.

[WendyK]

I've since chilled out now that my son is 7. I think lots of people want certain things for their children.

Funny thing is I was never officially labeled gifted. So when my son did certain things very early I either thought it was normal or I was scared to death. I never wished for him not to be gifted, but I didn't know what to do if he was. I know I was bored stiff in school and was never challenged (even in college). I didn't want that for him. So that is why I homeschool.

[KristenS]

I don't think you were excessively angsty. :) There aren't THAT many places that you can ramble like that and actually have people understand what you're getting at. So go for it. (Says one weird mind to another, LOL.)

I fret sometimes about 'the label' too, though it's gotten better as my kids have gotten older. They are what they are. I homeschool to spare them the tedium of my school experience. (I did have a lot of fun in many school situations ... but the classwork ... so anyway, here we are...). I assume they're gifted because dh and I were, and so was my sis, and I can see signs of it up and down my extremely crazy family tree, and our kids are very much like us. We'll test later if we find a need for it. (I made dh a deal. We get to do standardized testing for third grade ... two more years for us ... and if the scores come back high, he promised to let me have them officially IQ tested so I can get it out of my system.)

I think part of it is a validation of my own 'label'. I don't feel all that smart, but I sure think differently from most of my acquaintances, and I'm an obsessive and fast reader, and things like that. Sometimes, in fact, I feel downright stupid. So I think if my kids, who are much like me, end up being tested and labelled gifted, it will help *me* feel better ... if they deserve the label, then I must've deserved it too. Very backwards thinking, but hey, that's how my brain works.

I think giftedness basically boils down to thinking sideways from the rest of the world, and being that much more aware of the sixty million things you don't know. And actually wanting to learn. (Except cars. Car engines and the stock market ... I can never make myself learn about those... the knowledge just slides right off my gray cells and into the ether.)

[lgm]

It's normal..especially for kids that are visual and have access to letters. If you want to have some fun, ask her what color the letters she sees in her head are, and ask for a description of how they move (roate, flip whatever)? She'll enjoy the game where you put the letters in a bag and reach in and grab one to id without looking...throw H, E and F in and she'll be thrilled.

Have you been to hoagiesgifted.org?

[VanessaS]

I'm interested in the stock market but anything to do with machines I just hear: yadda, yadda, yadda. :D

To the OP: I'm totally with you. It's very difficult, psychologically, dealing with children who might possibly be gifted. Especially when they are late to speak (as both of mine were). I'd even written off my DS' verbal abilities and started saying things like "He's really good at math," and now it turns out that he's also really good at written language (reading/writing), it's just speech that he struggles with. And now I feel like a... donkey... for saying that. :tongue_smilie:

[HeatherInWI]

Completely normal for a gifted child -- and there's nothing wrong with being gifted, or admitting it. If your dc was tall, you'd be willing to admit that, wouldn't you? It's just a characteristic, not the essence of who a person is.

For the parents of slow-to-speak gifteds, have you read about the Einstein Effect? I read up on it before my first was born because my dh was a slow to speak, brilliant preschooler, so I expected that my dc might follow suit. (Instead, they were chatty as infants, like their precocious mother.) Slowness to speak is apparently pretty common in strongly math/science gifted dc.

[ChristineMM]

Hi, What you describe your child as doing is what mine did also. You focused on the alphabet and then bought a book with Greek alphabet. Since letters are connected to reading, a school subject that many Americans stress over, this seems so great to have learned letter identification at an early age.

IMO the same thing would have happened if you had strewn about books on zoo animals or construction equipment or the solar system or cartoon characters for a popular toddler TV show. Fast learners and kids who can make the connections easily will do that with any materials that can be connected. My kids both connected book learning to real world and images seen on TV.

A few years ago on Dr. Phil a mother of a 2 year old said she spent time every day doing a US states wooden puzzle with her child, and saying the names. She felt the child was gifted because the toddler memorized the state. Reallly the kid memoized the word connected to the shape. The child had no concept of the state, what a state is, what a country is etc. My point is the mother did this learning activity daily and then said "look this is proof they are gifted". On an Oprah show a 4 year old girl memorized, with father's prompting daily, the names of the US government cabinet members. I'd argue the children would learn anything their parent did with them for a number of minutes daily in a forced learning situation like those two parents did. Yet some would applaud the child because what was learned was a 'school topic' or in the case of the cabinet members, something most adults don't know (or care to know). (I know you didn't do that kind of thing directly but just what you talk about during the day and what you choose to strew about the home matters and counts towards what they can learn from.)

You asked if our kids did these things. Since mine are now 9 and almost 12 I can share that my older son who is a strong visual learner, a visual-spatial learner kid, has spoken to me of one-time things that happened when he was a baby and not talking in paragraphs yet. Up to three years later I would hear the story of the time the wallpaper guy came to hang wallpaper in our bathroom, the time we went here or there and saw something that only happened one time. Once the story is repeated it seems to gel in memory so now that he is 11 he will tell one of these old stories out of the blue and swears he recalls it all (gives lots of details).

My favorite book is "A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children" by James Webb MD et al Look on the SENG website to buy it. Consider reading it.

An opinion of mine is while it is convenient and easy for us when our kids learn things fast or early, a school subject for example, it is NOT easy for ME to deal with the 'gifted traits' of their personalities. The intensities, the deep emotions, one being an ultra-perfectionist, the issues with not liking immature (age appropriate) qualities of peers are all things I HATE having to deal with. Parenting a gifted child is NOT easy at all. I joined a SENG support group and learned some things from the other parents to help me manage my kids and help parent them through tough things that some of my friends are not dealing with.

HTH

[Karin]

I have no idea what is normal for a 3 yo. Each of my gifted dc was very different at 3. One of mine still doesn't come across as gifted in normal life, but she definitely is.

There is such a range of personality types, learning curves, etc, that there is no one model of what a gifted dc does at 3. However, some things done very early are generally done only by gifted dc. I used to have angst over all of that, since I come from a family with many gifted people. Dh was more concerned about character development than IQ, and still is. Both can be important, of course.

At 3 I think child led learning in things like reading and math are the best. My dc are older, and I go for deeper over faster, but you'll have to find what works best for you.

[Kalah]

Yup. I'd say have fun with letter games, throw in some number puzzles and enjoy her brightness.
I'm above average but I wouldn't say "gifted". My ds far surpasses my knowledge in science areas already. We also go deeper versus faster at this point. The next school year I've decided to really concentrate on writing because he's really weak in that area. (He's probably going to be really upset when he figures it out!)
Now my ds6 is gifted as well but in different ways. Whereas my 9yo was speaking full sentences by 1 and reading by 2, my ds6 is reluctant to learn to read and didn't really talk until he was 2.5. But, he's extraordinary in math and can name every fish he's ever caught, what bait they like, what they eat, and all the other fish he'd like to catch someday and where the live and what they eat......
All of this just to say, every kid is different. Enjoy the ride.