Looking for thoughts about Michael Clay Thompson's Language Arts

[KCole]

My dd has finished FLL 4, and as a result has a very strong grasp of grammar and diagramming. I am now evaluating the next step for her. I looked into Rod and Staff, which appears to be very thorough. However, I have also been looking at Michael Clay Thompson's Language Arts materials, which are intriguing. Does anyone have any experience with these products from Royal Fireworks Press?

Thanks in advance!

[Dana in OR]

My dd has finished FLL 4, and as a result has a very strong grasp of grammar and diagramming. I am now evaluating the next step for her. I looked into Rod and Staff, which appears to be very thorough. However, I have also been looking at Michael Clay Thompson's Language Arts materials, which are intriguing. Does anyone have any experience with these products from Royal Fireworks Press?

Thanks in advance!

I love MCT's language arts materials, particularly the way he diagrams sentences -- it's a bit different than the "branch" type that is more traditional. One thing about RFWP materials - please call them before ordering. For most of their materials you would not need to order both student and teacher manual (just order the teacher manual). The exception is the practice books for diagramming -- "Practice Island" for instance, needs both student book & teacher manual. They are very helpful on the phone and can recommend exactly what you need.

I feel that you can make much faster progress with MCT's material than R&S yet not sacrifice understanding. Start at the beginning of the sequence -- the books build on each other and you can go through them quickly if necessary. I know it's not a race, but I've tried R&S with my kids and they got bored to tears with the dry treatment of the material. MCT's examples are much more imaginative and interesting.

[Spy Car]

At long last, Royal Fireworks finally put up some samples of the MCT's poetry series. I was blown away by the samples. I honestly can't stop thinking about them. The design, the explanations, the choices of poems, all folded together and made a wonderful impression.

I can't wait to use these Language Arts materials.

Bill

[Donna]

I love MCT books. The poetry series in and of itself is amazing. I learned more about poetry and understood it better than I ever did in high school and college (and I took poetry classes in college though I am a biology major). I am so thankful to have found his books for my kids. I did not use the teacher's manuals for any of the books and have worked our way through the Island series and we are nearly finished the Town books.

I wouldn't worry about age/grade level with these. The way they are written, they are interesting to all my kids and since I just came across them this year, I used them with everyone. It was good review for the older kids and they even learned/understood better some concepts.

The first vocabulary book does not have a lot of information in it for an older child who could probably start with the second easily but was a good start for my youngest.

[joannqn]

You can find homeschool packages for their programs here (http://rfwp.com/series91.htm).

They have both a complete package, which comes with all of the teacher's manuals and student books, and a basic package, which comes with only teacher's manuals and the practice student book. I think the packages save you a few dollars.

[mom2abcd]

I love MCT books. The poetry series in and of itself is amazing. I learned more about poetry and understood it better than I ever did in high school and college (and I took poetry classes in college though I am a biology major). I am so thankful to have found his books for my kids. I did not use the teacher's manuals for any of the books and have worked our way through the Island series and we are nearly finished the Town books.

I wouldn't worry about age/grade level with these. The way they are written, they are interesting to all my kids and since I just came across them this year, I used them with everyone. It was good review for the older kids and they even learned/understood better some concepts.

The first vocabulary book does not have a lot of information in it for an older child who could probably start with the second easily but was a good start for my youngest.


Which poetry book would you recommend starting with for kids 10-13?

[matroyshka]

Which poetry book would you recommend starting with for kids 10-13?

I'm not sure if this is the "right" answer, but I'm starting my 11yos in Building Poetry (Town level). I looked at the samples of the Voyage level book and though there was no way I could drop them into that without some more foundation.

I decided not to back them all the way up to Island level, though - we're starting in the fall, we'll see if that was the right choice! We have covered things like alliteration, meter and onomatopoeia - hopefully that will be enough...

[Dana in OR]

I'm not sure if this is the "right" answer, but I'm starting my 11yos in Building Poetry (Town level). I looked at the samples of the Voyage level book and though there was no way I could drop them into that without some more foundation.

I decided not to back them all the way up to Island level, though - we're starting in the fall, we'll see if that was the right choice! We have covered things like alliteration, meter and onomatopoeia - hopefully that will be enough...

I have the "Island" level and I would say go ahead and back them up - the TM is all you need and it is not very expensive. You can get through the easiest level quickly -- I wouldn't want to miss any of it. I was working with my 9yo daughter on this level this afternoon and my 14yo dd was listening in, learning.

[Donna]

Which poetry book would you recommend starting with for kids 10-13?


I started my 11 and 13yo with the Island level poetry. There is a wealth of information covered in it. Similar information is covered in Building Poetry at a higher level but I enjoyed the poems and the presentation in Music of the Hemispheres and am glad we didn't skip it. I loved that it didn't water anything down as far as what was covered...rhyme scheme, rhythm, different types of rhyme, etc... We did do it rather quickly but it set up a good basis for moving on.

[Country Girl]

About the poetry books.... from looking at the description it seems they include a lot of instruction on different literary devices etc. Similar to something you'd find in a lit program. I've been using the other components of the MCT program (grammar, writing, vocab) and really like them but haven't used the poetry books. I plan to add them next year but was also thinking about a lit program to cover things like literary devices. Do you think these could substitute for that?


Thanks!

[WendyK]

How come nobody told me about these before?!?!

AHH!!!!

[Capt_Uhura]

Do you need both the teacher's manual and the student manual?

thanks,
Capt_Uhura

[WendyK]

Does anyone here use all of the books? What about the writing books? thoughts/comments

[Spy Car]

Does anyone here use all of the books? What about the writing books? thoughts/comments

Ask Moira, I believe she uses this program with her children.

[rowan25]

You can find homeschool packages for their programs here (http://rfwp.com/series91.htm).

They have both a complete package, which comes with all of the teacher's manuals and student books, and a basic package, which comes with only teacher's manuals and the practice student book. I think the packages save you a few dollars.


Do the levels correspond roughly to grade levels?

[Donna]

Do you need both the teacher's manual and the student manual?

thanks,
Capt_Uhura

No. I haven't used any teacher's manuals. Also there is a group for those who use the program to ask questions. Michael Clay Thompson answers any that the others can't answer. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MCTLA/

[Spy Car]

Do you need both the teacher's manual and the student manual?

thanks,
Capt_Uhura

I thought that expect for a few items where you need the student books, that if you are going to use one book (rather than a student and teacher combo) that they advise getting the teachers books an not the students) as outlined in the 2 "homeschool" packages.

See link below

You can find homeschool packages for their programs here (http://rfwp.com/series91.htm).

[Dana in OR]

Do the levels correspond roughly to grade levels?

The "Island" level is supposed to be for a gifted 3rd grade level. I have found that it can be used with any level -- the difference being the amount of time spent on a concept. It can be covered over several months with a 3rd grader, or in 2 weeks for an older student.

[Colleen in SEVA]

Does anyone here use all of the books? What about the writing books? thoughts/comments

We are using all of the books, and I've heard him speak at workshops specifically about the writing and grammar programs. I am happy to share our experience, but you may get a wider variety of answers at the yahoo group.

The writing books are gentle yet rigorous. We read through the text together, and there are writing assignments in the back of the teacher's edition. These are more like "writer's workshop" type assignments, most are pretty open ended. The basic idea behind his writing program is to focus on the sentence first. Then when the student can write a GOOD sentence (not just correct, but something really good), he moves on to how to write a paragraph well, and then on to essays. MCT doesn't see the point of writing an essay until you can come up with a proper paragraph.

The grades he recommends are what he had in mind when he was writing the books, but are not set in stone. For example -- he wrote Caesar's English for a gifted 4th/5th grade student, but he has seen it used in junior high classes and he has seen it used in 2nd grade classes.

There is a pretty big step between the Island and the Town level books.

There is a powerpoint presentation on the yahoo group that explains how to implement the whole program, but basically you do grammar during the first few weeks of school, writing/vocab/poetry the rest of the year, and the practice book throughout the year.

MCT's program is not specifically Classical, but can easily be adapted to fit into the Classical model. He focuses on reading the classics from an early age, in fact the whole focus of his vocab program is to get the kids familiar with the words they will need to read the classics. We use the sentences in the practice book for copywork or narration before we do the sentence analysis with them.

On a side note... we used this series before starting the MCT sequence. http://rfwp.com/series6.htm

[LisaDSB]

I'm using Grammar Island with my gifted gr. 1 & gr. 3 kids. They both love it! I bought the whole homeschool package, but if it works out cheaper, I would say leave out the student edition (except the Practice Island which is consumable). I find it's easier if I just have the teacher's book on my lap and all three of us look at it, than one using the student book (or the two fighting over who gets to hold it) and flipping ahead when I'm trying to read aloud.

HTH

Lisa in Ontario

[Country Girl]

On a side note... we used this series before starting the MCT sequence. http://rfwp.com/series6.htm

Colleen,
Would you mind sharing more about these books? I'm using the MCT sequence with my older son, but am looking for something for my younger ds next year. These look interesting.

Thanks!

[Colleen in SEVA]

Colleen,
Would you mind sharing more about these books? I'm using the MCT sequence with my older son, but am looking for something for my younger ds next year. These look interesting.

Thanks!

These were great for us, covering basic things that MCT assumes are already covered (ABC order, punctuation, personal letters, etc).

Each book has 11 (I think) lessons of 4 pages each. The first page has one of Aesop's fables, usually only a couple of paragraphs. Below each one is a list of words that the student may not be familiar with from the story. The second page is a hand-drawn picture to color from the story, with space below to write one sentence (I had Blue tell me ONE THING about the story, then I wrote it on dry erase board and he copied it onto the line). Then there are 2 pages with a short language arts activity -- make a guest list for a party (names start with upper case); draw a picture that represents each season, label it, then write one sentence about which season you like best and why; make up new compound words; help the tortoise beat the hare throught he maze; etc.

We did two of these books when Blue was going through his "I don't like to read or write" phase, and they were great because they didn't require more than 5 minutes of each. :) The RFWP site lists them for grades 1-4, but I would say they are best for an advanced second grader who is already reading on his own, and able to write words without help. They don't necessarily get harder from volume 1-4, and I do plan to have Blue finish the last 2 at some point.

Even though they take a different approach, I think these books are in line with the recommendations in the WTM. In each lesson, the student is doing a narration based on the fable. He then does copywork (or you could dictate for an older kid) for the sentence below the picture, and basic language arts skills are covered.

[Country Girl]

These were great for us, covering basic things that MCT assumes are already covered (ABC order, punctuation, personal letters, etc).

Each book has 11 (I think) lessons of 4 pages each. The first page has one of Aesop's fables, usually only a couple of paragraphs. Below each one is a list of words that the student may not be familiar with from the story. The second page is a hand-drawn picture to color from the story, with space below to write one sentence (I had Blue tell me ONE THING about the story, then I wrote it on dry erase board and he copied it onto the line). Then there are 2 pages with a short language arts activity -- make a guest list for a party (names start with upper case); draw a picture that represents each season, label it, then write one sentence about which season you like best and why; make up new compound words; help the tortoise beat the hare throught he maze; etc.

We did two of these books when Blue was going through his "I don't like to read or write" phase, and they were great because they didn't require more than 5 minutes of each. :) The RFWP site lists them for grades 1-4, but I would say they are best for an advanced second grader who is already reading on his own, and able to write words without help. They don't necessarily get harder from volume 1-4, and I do plan to have Blue finish the last 2 at some point.

Even though they take a different approach, I think these books are in line with the recommendations in the WTM. In each lesson, the student is doing a narration based on the fable. He then does copywork (or you could dictate for an older kid) for the sentence below the picture, and basic language arts skills are covered.

Thanks Colleen. These look really interesting. I actually found some samples at Rainbow Resources too. I think they could work well for my younger ds as a gentle start to language arts.

Thanks for sharing!

[WendyK]

We are using all of the books, and I've heard him speak at workshops specifically about the writing and grammar programs. I am happy to share our experience, but you may get a wider variety of answers at the yahoo group.

The writing books are gentle yet rigorous. We read through the text together, and there are writing assignments in the back of the teacher's edition. These are more like "writer's workshop" type assignments, most are pretty open ended. The basic idea behind his writing program is to focus on the sentence first. Then when the student can write a GOOD sentence (not just correct, but something really good), he moves on to how to write a paragraph well, and then on to essays. MCT doesn't see the point of writing an essay until you can come up with a proper paragraph.

The grades he recommends are what he had in mind when he was writing the books, but are not set in stone. For example -- he wrote Caesar's English for a gifted 4th/5th grade student, but he has seen it used in junior high classes and he has seen it used in 2nd grade classes.

There is a pretty big step between the Island and the Town level books.

There is a powerpoint presentation on the yahoo group that explains how to implement the whole program, but basically you do grammar during the first few weeks of school, writing/vocab/poetry the rest of the year, and the practice book throughout the year.

MCT's program is not specifically Classical, but can easily be adapted to fit into the Classical model. He focuses on reading the classics from an early age, in fact the whole focus of his vocab program is to get the kids familiar with the words they will need to read the classics. We use the sentences in the practice book for copywork or narration before we do the sentence analysis with them.

On a side note... we used this series before starting the MCT sequence. http://rfwp.com/series6.htm

Thank you!