Which translations should I get?

[Pooh Bear]

Can you please tell me which translations of these books are the best ones to get. There are so many choices, I want to make sure that I read a good translation.

The Iliad
The Odyssey
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
Beowulf
Gilgamesh
Don Quixote
The Aeneid
The Mabinogion

[jonesloonybin]

We have the Seamus Heaney translation of Beowulf and we really like it. This is also the version that SWB recommended when we took her Literary Analysis Workshop.

[Alphabetika]

We're fond of the Robert Fagles versions of Iliad, Odyssey, and Aeneid, but you'll get lots of differing opinions here. If you like audiobooks, Ian McKellan recorded the Fagles Odyssey and it's fabulous.

[jonesloonybin]

Can you please tell me which translations of these books are the best ones to get. There are so many choices, I want to make sure that I read a good translation.

The Iliad Robert Fagles
The Odyssey Robert Fagles
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Marie Boroff
Beowulf
Gilgamesh David Ferry
Don Quixote Walter Starkie
The Aeneid
The Mabinogion

The red is SWB's recommended translations. We have not personally read them yet.

Hope this helps!

[Pooh Bear]

We're fond of the Robert Fagles versions of Iliad, Odyssey, and Aeneid, but you'll get lots of differing opinions here. If you like audiobooks, Ian McKellan recorded the Fagles Odyssey and it's fabulous.


Ooo, I bet that is a good recording. I will have to see if the library has it.

[Pooh Bear]

Thanks for the recommendations. Now to add them to my Amazon cart and see what the total is.

[Eliana]

Can you please tell me which translations of these books are the best ones to get. There are so many choices, I want to make sure that I read a good translation.


Translations of Homer were discussed in this thread (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23153&highlight=Iliad), this one (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56142&highlight=Iliad), and this one (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58713)- as you can see, there isn't a consensus!

Here are my thoughts on the translations I have read:

For the Iliad (http://www.amazon.com/Iliad-Homer/dp/0226469409/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103626&sr=1-1) and the Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer/dp/0060931957/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103346&sr=1-2), imnsho, the only translations I have ever seen which begin to do justice to Homer are Lattimore's. Simple, unadorned, but managing in so many places to capture the feel of the original. I wish I had maintained my Greek, because the original is always better... some things just can't be translated... but Lattimore makes me catch glimpses of the real thing and has a quiet grandeur which I love.

Fitzgerald has a nice translation of the Aeneid, but his translations of the Iliad (http://www.amazon.com/Iliad-Fitzgerald-Translation-Homer/dp/0374529051/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103626&sr=1-4) and the Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Fitzgerald-Translation-Homer/dp/0374525749/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103346&sr=1-3) are, imho, too florid.. there is too much Fitzgerald and not enough Homer. They are pretty, but way off key.

The Fagles translations (Iliad (http://www.amazon.com/Iliad-Penguin-Classics-Deluxe/dp/0140275363/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103626&sr=1-2), Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Penguin-Classics-Homer/dp/0143039954/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103346&sr=1-1))repulse me. They are so colloquial, so far from Homeric that they feel more like modern adaptations than translations.

Lombardo takes even more liberties with the text - imho this is definitely more of an adaptation than a translation (Iliad (http://www.amazon.com/Iliad-Homer/dp/0872203522/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103607&sr=1-1) Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer/dp/0872204847/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103554&sr=1-2)).

For a very literal translation (most useful if you are trying to translate Homer yourself) the Loeb editions have facing English and Greek pages and follows the word order of each Greek line as closely as possible - I wouldn't use it as a primary text, but it is a neat supplement. (Ex: "The wrath sing, goddess, of Peleus' son Achilles," ) [Here's one volume of the Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Books-13-24-Classical-Library/dp/0674995627/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103346&sr=1-12))

Some people like the Rieu prose translations(The Iliad (http://www.amazon.com/Iliad-Penguin-Classics-Homer/dp/0140447946/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103186&sr=1-3), the Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Penguin-Classics-Homer/dp/0140449116/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103186&sr=1-2)), and I guess they could serve as an intro to Homer, but I wouldn't use them.

Mandelbaum has a slightly clunky translation of the Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer-Bantam-Classics/dp/0553213997/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103346&sr=1-6) - he is my translator of choice for Dante (though it was a hard choice!), but not for Homer... but, unlike most of the others it *is* a reasonably reliable translation, as I recall.

Pope's translations (The Iliad (http://www.amazon.com/Iliad-Homer-Translated-Alexander-Pope/dp/1604241640/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103252&sr=1-9), The Odyssey (http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer-Translated-Greek-Alexander/dp/158715675X/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103252&sr=1-7))are an older version of what Fagles has done - an adaptation in the "translator's" own style.. pretty, but not Homer... but, imo, less grating than Fagles and less ornate than Fitzgerald... though Fitzgerald is a more reliable translator.

Butler has prose translations of Homer (http://www.amazon.com/Homer-Iliad-Odyssey/dp/0977340007/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103127&sr=1-3) ... pedestrian is the adjective I would apply to them. Rieu's has a little more flavor, but Butler's is solid and straightforward.... not a version I would choose, but there isn't anything *wrong* with it...

Chapman's translations (http://www.amazon.com/Chapmans-Homer/dp/0691048916/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221103046&sr=1-1) are classics in their own right, but ones I would read for themselves not for Homer...


Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - I love Tolkien's translation (http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Pearl-Orfeo/dp/0345277600/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242141754&sr=1-3), but there are other good ones as well: Armitage's recent translation (http://www.amazon.com/Sir-Gawain-Green-Knight-Translation/dp/0393334155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242141740&sr=8-1)has the Middle English text on facing pages, and has been well received... the flavor isn't quite what I would prefer, but ymmv. Penguin (http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140424539/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242141754&sr=1-4) and Oxford (http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Knight-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0199540160/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242141754&sr=1-8) both have decent translations as does Raffel (http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Signet-Classics/dp/0451528182/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242141754&sr=1-2). Many undergraduate classes use Boroff (http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Verse-Translation/dp/0393097544/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242142321&sr=1-2), which is also a solid translation.

Beowulf - Heaney (http://www.amazon.com/Beowulf-New-Verse-Translation-Bilingual/dp/0393320979/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242142703&sr=1-1), nothing else begins to compare, imnsho. Bagby's performance of Beowulf (http://www.amazon.com/Beowulf-Benjamin-Bagby/dp/B000KJTG10/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1242142749&sr=1-7)(in Old English with subtitles) was recommended here, and I adored it (and it kept even my littlest ones entranced!)

Gilgamesh - I prefer the Ferry translation (http://www.amazon.com/Gilgamesh-New-Rendering-English-Verse/dp/0374162271/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208935350&sr=8-5). Mitchell's more recent translation (http://www.amazon.com/Gilgamesh-English-Version-Stephen-Mitchell/dp/0743261690/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208935350&sr=8-2)has been very well received, but I prefer Ferry (and, fwiw, Mitchell is much more s*xually explicit). Someone here recommends the Westwood's prose retelling (http://www.amazon.com/Gilgamesh-Babylonian-Heroic-retellings-history/dp/0370011090/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208935444&sr=8-1), but I prefer to use a translation, ymmv.

Don Quixote - I'm torn on this one. Grossman's new translation (http://www.amazon.com/Don-Quixote-Miguel-Cervantes/dp/0060934344/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242143192&sr=1-1) is very nice indeed, but I'm still very fond of the Smollett translation (http://www.amazon.com/Don-Quixote-Modern-Library-Classics/dp/0812972104/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242143257&sr=1-1) in which I first read Cervantes. Both are excellent translations.

The Aeneid - Fitzgerald (http://www.amazon.com/Aeneid-Virgil/dp/0679729526/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242142968&sr=1-2) is, hands down, the best out there. Of the other translations out there, the only one I passionately dislike is Fagles - as with Homer this is better categorized as an adaptation it is so far from the flavor of the original. Sutcliff's picture book adaptations of Homer (here's one (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Ships-Before-Troy-Story/dp/1845073592/ref=ed_oe_h)), and Lively's (http://www.amazon.com/Search-Homeland-Story-Aeneid/dp/184507792X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242143071&sr=1-1) of Virgil do a better job of conveying the essence of these classics - I wouldn't use them for high school, but I'd rather do so than use Fagles.

The Mabinogion - I have less knowledge here - and none of the original language, but this (http://www.amazon.com/Mabinogion-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0199218781/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1TSKYF4MGHY9O&colid=21VHCGZHZ10ZD) is my favorite translation. From what I have read, there are a number of good translations out there, but I can't find my notes on the translations I compared - sorry!

I have some links to my preferred translations of some other works in this post (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=551574&postcount=4), in case there are any there you are interested in...

[Trisha King]

We liked Heaney for Beowulf. Very complete, but easy to understand and it has some side notes.

I searched a lot of translations of Don Quixote and settled on the one by Starkie. However, it is abridged.

[Michelle in AL]

I would definitely go with Simon Armitage for Sir Gawain, Tolkein's version was very difficult for me to read.

I second Seamus Heaney for Beowulf.

[Eliana]

In case you don't yet have a copy of TWEM (a fabulous resource for high schhol literature study, btw!). Here's a very brief summary of SWB's recommendations from it:

Homer: She quotes excerpts from Lattimore, Fitzgerald, and Fagles ("Compare the opening lines of the Odyssey from each poet below, and choose the edition that strikes your ear")

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - She mentions the Boroff ("the most elegant translation") and the Tolkien ("slightly more archaic, but great fun to read for Tolkien fans")

Beowulf - Heaney

Gilgamesh - she mentions Ferry and "a slightly more proselike..version" Foster (http://www.amazon.com/Epic-Gilgamesh-Norton-Critical-Editions/dp/0393975169/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242147423&sr=8-1). ( I believe TWEM came out before the new Mitchell translation was published - and, for that matter, before the Armitage SIr Gawain and the Green Knight)

Don Quixote: Rutherford (http://www.amazon.com/Quixote-Penguin-Classics-Cervantes-Saavedra/dp/0142437239/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242147661&sr=1-1) ("this recent translation reads beautifully and remains faithful to Cervantes's original Spanish text"). Smollett, and("If you get well and truly bogged down in this lengthy book, try the abridgement...")Starkie (http://www.amazon.com/Quixote-Signet-Classics-Cervantes-Saavedra/dp/0451528905/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242147697&sr=1-1).

The Aeneid
The Mabinogion

TWEM doesn't cover either of these, and although they are on the Great Books reading lists in TWTM, none of the editions have recommendations for specific translations.

[Eliana]

I would definitely go with Simon Armitage for Sir Gawain, Tolkein's version was very difficult for me to read.


I found it easier after I'd tried reading a little bit of it aloud and had gotten a feeling for the rhythm of the poem. It is a little harder to get into at first, but I think that is because it is truer to the original - Armitage makes it more accessible, butby doing do he loses more of the original than I would prefer. One of the other translations I listed might feel more accessible - Boroff or Raffel, perhaps - without sacrificing as much to do so. ...but finding the "right" translation is very individual, and you are right, we should try out translations before commiting to them, to see if they will work for our family.

[Michelle in AL]

Armitage makes it more accessible, butby doing do he loses more of the original than I would prefer. One of the other translations I listed might feel more accessible - Boroff or Raffel, perhaps - without sacrificing as much to do so. ...but finding the "right" translation is very individual,

Thanks Eliana, I haven't seen these translations, I'll check them out before I decide.

[Pooh Bear]

Wow, thank you Eilana.

I was thinking about buying TWEM, but was not sure about it. Now I think I will.

I have a few years before my son will be reading these books, but I want to read them, so I will have an idea what they are about when he does get to them.

[Lori D.]

Epic of Gilgamesh = Jennifer Westwood
(Not a translation, but an out-of-print abridged retelling; it helped us skip over the harlot-teaching-Endiku-the-ways-of-love part -- which we didn't want, but it also included some Babylonian myths --which we did want.)


The Iliad and The Odyssey = Fagles
(Not as poetic as some translations, but extremely readable and accessible.)


Oedipus the King; Oedipus at Colonus; Antigone = Fitzgerald
(Very readable; not too graphic.)


Greek Myths = all were retellings, rather than translations
We used vol. 3 (of a 10 volume set) of a 1950s edition of "The Young Folks Shelf of Books" published by Collier, which has 8 ancient Greek myths retold by different authors. All were good; Thomas Bulfinch, Charles Kingsley, and Nathaniel Hawthorne were very readable and clear; W.M.L. Hutchinson and Elsie Finnimore Buckley used older, more elevated vocabulary and sentence structure.

We also used the D'Aulaires book of Greek myths, which is very clear and easy to read -- probably at a 5th grade reading level. This one is nice as it has a family tree to make it easy to look up connections between characters, and has more detail about what ends up happening to everyone -- in fact, it reads more like a gentle story-like history, rather than as a series of distinct myth stories.


The Aeneid = Alfred Church
(We liked this; an abridge, prose retelling rather than a translation; I've heard the Fagles translation is good, but we'd managed to get through the 1000 pages of Iliad and Odyssey, we just couldn't make ourselves do the 900-page Fagles translation of Aeneid.)


Beowulf = Seamus Heaney
(We really liked this; musical/alliterative while still being accessible.)


Macbeth = Parallel Text Shakespeare
(Side-by-side version with the original text on the left hand page, and a modern translation on the right hand page; the modern translation seems a bit "clunky" compared to the poetic meter and vocabulary of Shakespeare himself, but we found this version to be very helpful for our first-time out in reading Shakespeare -- we ended up mostly reading the Shakespeare, and only reading paragraphs of the translation here and there when we got "lost")



Vol 4 (of the 10 volume set) of a 1950s edition of "The Young Folks Shelf of Books" published by Collier, has several other very nice retellings, including these:

Rustem and Sohrab = Helen Zimmern
(abridged retelling of Firdusi's "Shah-Nameh", a tale of Ancient Persia's The Epic of Kings)

The Forging of the Sampo = James Baldwin
(abridged prose retelling of the ancient Finnish epic song The Kalevala)

The Song of Roland = James Baldwin
(abridged prose retelling of this famous hero poem of France)

Stories from the Chronicle of the Cid = Mary Wright Plummer
(abridged retelling of some of stories from The Chronicle of TheCid)

The Hunging of the Boar = Padraic Colum
(abridged retelling of this King Arthur story from The Mabinogion)


Vol. 5 has, among other works:

Don Quixote = Judge Parry
(abridge retelling of portions of the classic work)

Gulliver's Travels = Jonathan Swift
(an edited version; Swift's version -- just shortened) by Padric Calum)

Tales from the Travels of Taron Munchausen = Rudolph Erich Raspe
(edited version by the original author)

[dymphna57]

I just wanted to add my vote for te First Folio Shakespeare. The research into the Bard's use of punctuation for guiding the reading is fascinating. It really helps you hear what he wanted.
Remember that a whole printing was scrapped in a time when paper was not cheap because the puntuation was wrong.
It isn't hard at all to read.

[elegantlion]

I am currently reading Lattimore's Iliad. I also have Fagles but I much prefer Lattimore's, the lanugage is much more poetic. This Companion to the Iliad (http://www.amazon.com/Companion-Iliad-Phoenix-Books/dp/0226898555/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242293105&sr=8-1) is for Lattimore's translation and has been most helpful.

[Rosie_0801]

This version (http://www.amazon.com/Beowulf-Old-English-New/dp/0976072653/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3PUA3KVYNK4EA&colid=2LE2RDPS10Z04) of Beowulf came highly recommended on one of the SCA lists I read; and they tend to be fussy about such things...

Rosie

[Nicole M]

I would definitely go with Simon Armitage for Sir Gawain, Tolkein's version was very difficult for me to read.

I second Seamus Heaney for Beowulf.

The Armitage version is amazing -- quite a page turner. In college I read two different versions, and I far, far prefer Armitage to those.

I loved listening to Seamus Heaney readiing Beowulf. The alliteration and the music of the language was sparkling.